Blogger posts at-home do-it-yourself abortion manual

[11 Bravo]

This is a valuable service, but my God, how sad. I can not even imagine the desperation someone must feel to be forced to this. At a time when a woman needs emotional support, and clean, safe, medical assistance; those South Dakota bastards would prefer to put her through this. No matter how careful she may be, her health is clearly at greater risk than would be the case if she was under the care of a medical professional. But a bunch of pasty-faced, middle-aged, South Dakota men could care less. Hate is a strong word, but sometimes its the only one that fits.

http://mollysavestheday.blogspot.com/2006/02/for-women-of-south-dakota-abortion.html

[PuraVidaDreamin]

1. powerful-scary stuff

Please young women, stand up for your sisters!
FIGHT!

[converted_democrat]

44. I still can't believe this is what it's coming too.. Just doesn't seem

real..

[Clark2008]

2. Oh.My.God.

My mother will puke when I tell her this is what it's come to - I'll let her read this.

My mother and grandmother were nurses who will tell you that abortion most certainly always happened, even before it was "legal." However, they both fought to make it legal and have worked to maintain that level of care for women.

To think that we're now having to post home abortion tips on the web because of fundy, primarily MALE, freaks who want to control our wombs and take away our reproductive rights is just sickening. I'm glad my grandmother died before she had to see it come to this.

[Tesha]

15. Abortions have happened as long as there's been pennyroyal (IIRC, NT)

[Clark2008]

18. And doctors who would write down that a woman was

having her insides cleaned out because of feminine complications.

;)

[Iris]

31. Yeah, they'll probably outlaw D&C next.

Calling it "destroying the home of past and future human lives" or some such shit.

[Cobalt Violet]

51. And blogging. n/t

[Iris]

68. Isn't Bushy kind of trying to do that already? n/t

[Cobalt Violet]

70. Yes, there will be a crack down.

Or an attempted one soon. Just a feeling I get.

[noonwitch]

58. No, they won't. There are too many other reasons for D&Cs

Especially when it comes to problems women have during menopause, like fibroids and excessive clotting.
If abortion is made illegal, some doctors will still perform abortions and write them up as simple D&Cs. That's just the way it is and there really is no way for the pro-lifers to stop it without going through the garbage/medical waste of every ob/gyn in the nation.

[Iris]

67. They'd probably be glad to do it.

Ghouling for the Lord.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

21. knowledge was once widespread

There is a growing movement of self-determined women, to regain ancient knowledge about botanical herbs once widely used for the control of pregnancy. This knowledge was once widespread, perhaps even global in nature, but was largely wiped out in Western society during the "burning times", when the Christian church began a war against midwives and female healers, murdering millions of people who at that time "lived outside of the Church". The war against midwives was continued in more recent centuries by the medical establishment, which today holds a power and authority position roughly equal to the old priesthood.

http://www.orgonelab.org/contracep.htm

[Delphinus]

55. Thank you for this link, Viva.

Every woman, no matter their age, is going to have to be responsible for determining when she wants to be pregnant. I'd like to think if we knew there were no options, we'd just stop giving in and having sex. But, that's not going to happen.

[RazzleDazzle]

26. There are a number of herbal abortifacients --

and some of them quite benign otherwise -- that is, if you're not pregnant.

[CAcyclist]

30. Pennyroyal oil is poison

A lot of women died this way,too.

[Tesha]

38. I didn't claim it was safe; I merely inferred it was an abortifacient.

I didn't claim it was safe; I merely inferred it was an abortifacient.

Lack of access to the full spectrum of medical care has NEVER
been safe for women.

Tesha

[Tesha]

49. FYI: Foxglove: Useful drug or deadly poison?

Lots of herbals can be useful or poisonous, depending on
the dosage. Foxglove certainly comes to mind: its active
ingredient is digitalis, a heart stimulant. But in large
doses, it will toast you.

It's really not surprising that pennyroyal would be in
this same category, is it?

Tesha

[Dulcinea]

46. True, but the leaves are OK from what I've read.

Tea can be made from the leaves.

[Coexist]

3. k & r - just BE CAREFUL, PEOPLE!

If anyone has an account there, they might want to link to Planned Parenthoods advice on Emergency Contraception from this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x548499

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/medicalinfo/ec/fact-emergency-contraception.xml

[Fridays Child]

4. The very fact that this procedure has been published on the Internet...

...provides one of the strongest arguments I can think of against outlawing abortion.

[havocmom]

5. The night of the 2000 SCOTUS selection, I told Havocdad

I may be traveling soon to learn some medical techniques which will probably become scarce in the near future.

[northzax]

6. well, abortion basically wasn't avaliable to most south dakotans

anyway, since there was only one provider in the State (Planned Parenthood in Sioux Falls) so this law doesn't really change anything on the ground.

[PuraVidaDreamin]

7. so it will be available for use in Mississippi then

and now those who are without hope in SD may have
some way out.

[northzax]

10. what I think would happen

if abortion is made a crime, once again, is that there would be a rousing trade in aboficant drugs- the era of coathangers will likely be replaced with the era of pills and shots.

[RazzleDazzle]

27. One provider versus none is humongous 100% difference

and thanks so much for YOUR care and concern.

[northzax]

53. to someone a seven hour drive away?

it might as well not exist. There is no practical difference between having medical care seven hours away and not having it at all, right? It's the equivalant of having to drive from LA to San Francisco, or Hartford to DC, not really practical, is it? Anyone with the resources to do that has the resources to leave the state, or find another option, not exactly the women that Planned Parenthood targets with their fine services, is it?

Why the hell are we giving the assholes in South Dakota this much attention for passing a law that is blatently unconstutional? Why let them get more 'credibility' from the wingnuts who love this more than anything? Part of my problem with the American left is the knee-jerk reaction to all this crap. Every tremor is the New Madrid quake, every ripple a tsunami. How will we summon the outrage when something real happens?

For two decades, abortion has been vanishing as a real, practical, right for American women in many parts of the country. If you have to travel more than two hours in a car, you aren't likely to avail yourself of the opportunity, and if private clinics and hospitals won't provide the service, then where is the support to fund other sources? Sometime this week, a teenage girl woke up in Rapid City and realized she's pregnant. She wants to know her options, but abortion isn't really one of them, even without this law, since the nearest provider is a 6 hour drive. She has already lost the right to choose, not legally, but practically. Where's all this fucking outrage for that? Where is the 'underground railroad' for women in places where safe abortions are not avaliable at any price? Why are we always fighting a rear guard legal action, instead of a proactive, responsible one? People who fight rear-guard actions are basically in full retreat, fighting desperatly to stave off extinction. The assholes have the initiative, they have the gumption to bring the fight to us, while we sit around waiting for their next blow, hoping they won't make contact with our glass chins.

that is my concern. We're hiding behind our own little maginot line, and not out there making a strong, public case. They define the terms, we take the blows, and it's not something we can afford to lose. but by the time it gets to a state-wide ban that will be struck down immediately, we have lost the battle there. We either take the offensive, make the arguement that abortion is a GOOD thing, we face the fact we are losing.

That is my point.

[pitohui]

61. this is a point i agree with

for poor women who don't have access to transportation, for married women and teens who can't disappear for almost an entire day, the right to abortion is already gone in much of mississippi and south dakota, hell, other places too

this law is just the rubber stamp acknowledging what is already reality

we already let it slip away, question is, how are we going to get it back? can we get it back? a lot of the most politically active women these days are peri-menopausal, menopausal, or frankly over the hump and we feel it isn't our issue to take the lead any more

if young women are unwilling to stand and fight, how much longer can we fight?

i look at the doctors who have sacrificed themselves for the cause, hell, one of the assassinated doctors was 69 years old, 69! that is truly selfless but most of us are not selfless and if young women won't help themselves there comes a time when we have to throw up our hands in despair and allow history to repeat itself

[Taverner]

37. Have I mentioned how much I hate these people????

[northzax]

54. who, lil' ol me? or South Dakotans? nt

[Taverner]

65. Neither. Republicans.

[CoffeeCat]

8. I never, ever thought I would see this day...

I feel like we have regressed to the Dark Ages.

I feel like women have been set back about 100 years.

It's very odd, because the normal progression of a civilized society is to increase
freedoms and enlightenment. This is such a graphic and bizarre step backward--to return to a time when women do not control their own bodies.

It's similar to someone stripping women of the right to vote; or someone deciding that African Americans must use separate bathrooms.

This is so upsetting.

[Cobalt Violet]

52. That's exactly what they want.

Women set back 100 yrs. I don't know why they fight the Tabliban when they see eye to eye so much.

[elehhhhna]

9. This is disgusting. We have come to this? I guess we have.

Fuck it. I want my country back.

[wicket]

22. Me too

:(

[kskiska]

11. Anyone see "Vera Drake"?

It's about a sweet little British lady who (unbeknownst to her family) made house calls to girls in trouble.

Rent it at Blockbuster.

[Lars39]

42. I watched it yesterday on Comcast.

One of the Encore channels(?).
They're going to play it again sometime this month.

The difference in the way the rich girl was able to deal with her "trouble" was very revealing.
I wanted to kick Sid's ass. :(

[Warpy]

12. I lost a friend to an illegal abortion in 1969

She spent her final hours in agony from a punctured uterus, blood loss, and massive infection. She never did tell us whether she had done it herself or had gone to a butcher. Toward the end, she couldn't tell us, she could only moan and thrash. She was barely twenty.

This is what these MEN who are so desperate to control us want to do to our daughters.

I hate them.

This article is a dangerous one, IMO. Safer methods, namely the menstrual extraction (which uses a sterile syringe and sterile tubing but must be done within a few days of a missed period) is a good one. The best one is having a sympathetic physician who will prescribe Cytotec, a medication more commonly used for GI problems.

A great discussion of illegal abortion, the reasons for it, the prevalence of it, and traditional MALE hostility to it is at http://www.marxists.org/archive/widgery/1975/07/abortion.htm Don't be put off by the site, the Marxist MEN were just as hostile to our control of our own bodies as any religious wack job is now.

The bottom line is that anitabortion laws kill women. If these ASSHOLES succeed, it's up to us to redevelop undergrounds like the Jane Collective to care for our younger sisters safely.

[w8liftinglady]

50. How sad.I remember my mom's magazines...

the photos of the poor women who died from illegal abortions.These repressed bastards are the ones who will rot in their own version of hell.

[dogday]

13. I predicted there would be do it yourself at home kits

made available to people off the internet... Damn right on :crazy:

[mopinko]

14. god damn it!

[localroger]

16. Not quite DIY

It's worth noting that Molly herself says it's not a manual for a woman to abort herself since it's physically impossible to do the procedure on yourself. And it's not for one person with a friend to help her since it would (1) take a month or more to acquire all the supplies (2) at a cost which is competetive with travelling to a less Neanderthalish place. What this manual is for is for setting up an illegal abortion clinic, which is to say setting yourself up to perform relatively safe abortions as a regular community service.

[iconoclastNYC]

17. Isn't RU486 safer than a DIY Abortion?

[localroger]

19. RU486 only works reliably up to 9 weeks

...AND it fails a significant percentage of the time, killing the fetus but not causing it to be expelled, and if that happens you MUST have access to the D&C procedure or you will most likely die of the resulting complications.

[troubleinwinter]

20. This made me travel back in time 40 years. I remember it well.

I never dreamed we would go backwards. Something is very wrong when we go backwards.

[11 Bravo]

23. That's one of the more disturbing facets of the last 5 years.

What other civilized nation has seen the wholesale rollback of individual liberties that we have endured since dim son usurped the People's House?

[Richard Steele]

57. Cambodia, under the Khmer Rouge, perhaps.

But it is awfully hard to name another nation
which has gone so far backward so quickly,
isn't it?

[Marie26]

24. How stupid & dangerous.

It still is legal to get an abortion, why would someone be encouraging women to do something so potentially dangerous? I can't imagine if a desperate teenager or somebody read this & actually tried it.

[VelmaD]

25. Just because it is currently legal...

doesn't mean it's easy to actually get an abortion in many places. And it may not be legal for long. As far as I'm concerned it is better to have these instructions on the web than for women and girls to try the coathanger method.

[Tesha]

28. You say that now, but in the near future...

You say that now, but in the near future when the nearest abortion is 1500
miles away from the "heartland", you may think differently.

Tesha

[Marie26]

41. Maybe, but that's not the case now

I agree that we're heading down a scary road in this country, and abortion might be illegal again in the near future. But that hasn't happened yet. Right now, abortion is as legal & accessible as it was 6 months ago. Alito & the SD are potential problems in the future, but right now they haven't changed anything/ Since legal abortion is completely accessible, why is somebody writing do-it-yourself tips? Why not put a list of the nearest clinics? It seems way, way premature to me. And there is that slight danger that it could encourage women to actually try this & die in the process.

There's a reason illegal abortions caused so many women to die - they were done w/o proper medical care, expertise, or equipment. But now, we have the right to get an abortion safely, w/little danger to the woman. Women in SD CAN get an abortion through the proper channels, so there is absolutely no reason to be printing stuff like this right now.

If abortion becomes illegal, maybe people will have to resort to measures like this. But that has not happened yet. And to publish a blog basically encouraging women to obtain an abortion on their own seems irresponsible & dangerous to me. I know it's difficult to find a clinic in some areas, but that's always been the case. We can encourage women to find a clinic out-of-state, or to consult a doctor who can recommend a safe practictioner. Encouraging women to seek to end an abortion themselves could lead to deadly, entirely preventable, results. I don't believe this blog should be censored,& it was probably done w/good intentions. But I do believe it is reckless & dangerous, & I stand by that.

[Tesha]

48. And we shouldn't bother preparing for the very-likely future, right? (NT)

[Taverner]

39. Read the whole blog

It's not how to do it to oneself - it's at least a 2 person procedure. And the whole idea is when abortion becomes illegal - she is encouraging groups like Jane to spring up and provide them. Which I fully support. Especially the part about sterilization and antibiotics - those are key.

Who's side are you on?

[Marie26]

47. Women's

There's a difference between an organization like Jane, where women were specifically organized & trained on how to do this, and posting some tips on a blog & saying "try it". If abortion goes underground, we might have to resort to methods like this. But even then, there are doctors & nurses who are willing to do it, or Jane-type orga. that know how. This is the equivalent of reading a medical manual & trying to perform heart surgery. It's reckless & likely to have a pretty bad result for the patient. And right now, there are still plenty of safe, experienced clinics women can go to. You say "antibiotics & sterilization" are the key - but how is a medically inexperienced person going to know the right dosage, or the right sterilization process? This kind of thing could ending up killing women. I'd be interested to hear what a doctor thinks about this.

[MountainLaurel]

60. It's a hell of a lot better than douching with bleach

Or having a friend hit you in the stomach with a baseball bat, which desperate teenagers are now doing despite the fact that "it still is legal to get an abortion" Legal does not equal accessible.

http://www.alternet.org/rights/31199

[CAcyclist]

29. Oh, my god - let the deaths begin.

There's ways to do an abortion medically that are relatively safe - I could see supporting an underground channel for medical abortions , but this is just dangerous - this is what is going to put women in the hospital - I encourage anyone who thinks this is viable outside a medical office to watch Vera Drake. I applaud this woman's sentiments, but she is going to get women injured and killed.

[Iris]

32. And not all the deaths will be pregnant women.

Imagine the horrific tales of child abuse that we're going to be subjected to more and more frequently

[Ilsa]

33. There is discussion of abortion of a 13-14 week gestation

pregnancy. Ugh.

[Taverner]

34. We might do ourselves good by learning the procedure ourselves

So that if we have a friend in need, we can perform the task.

I would do so, and would be willing to be jailed for doing so...

[Minnesota Libra]

35. EVERY WOMAN should save this info to the HD or print it out.........

.....just in case someone, somewhere needs it. It's too bad it is coming to this but I'd suggest we plan ahead and at least have info at the ready.

[Taverner]

36. EVERY PERSON...

Abortion is not just a womens issue - it's a human rights issue.

[Minnesota Libra]

40. You are definitely right about that nt

[stepnw1f]

43. I'll Have to Save This

Maybe I can sell this info to Republican women....

[Nikki Stone 1]

45. Do we know if this is reliable?

The web is filled with traps.

[pitohui]

62. it's reliable as far as it goes

while the information presented seems to be technically correct, it doesn't take into account the reality that surgical procedures do require training and experience, it's true that d/c isn't the world's most complicated procedure but would i want this done by someone who had never even seen it done, much less performed it under the auspices of a teaching hospital and clinic, fuck no, for one thing all women are not shaped the same and even experienced doctors can make mistakes resulting in serious bleeding that requires emergency medical care at a real hospital where transfusions would be available

i wish an actual ob/gyn would comment but there may be legal reasons why she can't

[coffeenap]

56. My 82 year old mother, before she died 3 years ago, saw this

coming. She was a proud supporter of Planned Parenthood until her last days! No one should have control over women's privacy. Period. PRIVACY!

[Texasgal]

59. This makes me want to CRY...

I am SO ANGRY about this legislation.... for women to have to subcumb to "do it yourself" is HORRIBLE!! I am an RN so I know the IMPORTANCE of having a trained medical doctor to do this procedure. God, what have we become? :cry:

[Taverner]

64. If you want to help setup a Jane2k sort of thingy...

I'm more than willing to jump on board.

[Texasgal]

66. Funny... I was just thinking about that...

Weird... cue twilight zone music!

[ismnotwasm]

63. Jesus

I knew it. They'll be more of this stuff on the net as the more conservative states pass there unconstitutional laws to bring it to the supreme court.
I've always known about certain "ways". Way back in the day (before my time) in when the "pill" first became available, the hormone levels were much higher than they are now. Many nurses knew to take 2 the next day after unprotected sex as the unofficial "morning after" pill.

Any pregancy can be dangerous and a threat to a woman's life. ANY pregnancy. That's why we stress prenatal care--it's not only to bring a fetus to term to become a healthy baby, it's because PREGNANCY can be dangerous.
That's one of the reasons women need easy access to safe family planning, whether it's birth control, a decision to carry a pregnancy or terminate one. Another reason being basic human rights.

I can't believe we've come to this shit.

[Ksec]

69. Thats sick

But very effective.