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I am,...seriously torn about how I feel about my country, my people.

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:39 PM
Original message
I am,...seriously torn about how I feel about my country, my people.
Edited on Thu Feb-23-06 07:43 PM by Just Me
I try to remind myself that, merely six years ago, I genuinely "believed" in our form of government, our democracy, our potential, our integrity, our justice system (albeit with lotsa' criticism as a former attorney), our capacity to grow and progress and influence the world in a positive way. I try to remember my perspective of this country and our world when I was all of 36 years old.

Since then, I have accumulated knowledge that has completely changed my perspective, my world view; my take on the past, present and future as an American. The fantasies/dreams/hopes of opportunity and democracy and equality and progress and values and freedom and,...all that rhetoric I adopted lock/stock/barrel,...became just that, fantasies/dreams/hopes,...in face of stark reality. What I have discovered is gross exploitation by amoral profiteers who have spent their whole lives aiming towards greater and greater power through fraud and manipulation and outright criminal conduct,...and they have achieved that power.

Now, they exploit not only third world or less influential countries, they also exploit their own people and nation.

As these amoral profiteers continue to exploit us, our nation and the world, IN BROAD DAYLIGHT, I find myself torn in how I now feel about my country, my people. I TRY to understand that, many of my fellow citizens are still clinging to the fantasies/dreams/hopes I once held, in spite of facts and realities shoved in their faces. I try to accept that many MUST remain in a state of denial because reality is too cruel to accept. I try to acknowledge that most of us are simply busting our asses to survive in this country of supposed opportunity, leaving us little time or energy to fight back.

But,...how much deception and criminality and abuse and exploitation will my people take before they WILL themselves to end this violation of humanity and hope? How many MORE deaths, how much MORE poverty, how much MORE profiteering, how many MORE crimes are necessary before my people stand up and shout, "ENOUGH!!! WE DEMAND JUSTICE!!!"?

Why are my people so freakin' apathetic and act so,....powerless or uninterested or resigned? How can they just sit back and allow this declining state of affairs to perpetuate and grow worse? What the hell is wrong with these people I BELIEVED IN? Are they really so self-centered and irresponsible and distracted and desperate and reckless as to allow their own nation and, consequently, their own lives and the lives of their children/grandchildren spiral down to the kind of existence imposed a century ago?

:shrug:

What saddens me most is,...the neocons valued our people's potential and capacity SO LITTLE that those pricks DECEIVED them into engaging in activities in which they would NEVER have volunteered had they known "the plan" and the facts. I will never EVER treat our people in such a reprehensibly demeaning and disrespectful way, EVER. However, I am feeling terribly torn about my whole-hearted belief in my people, right now. They've been given information about how the BushCO/neoconster regime has breached numerous legal and moral and ethical standards,...and, the outrage is missing.

:cry:

I just do NOT understand. I am so damned torn.

Thanks for reading my rant.



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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Embarrassed is the one term that comes to mind when I think about it
Embarrassed that in 5 short years all the good will we had in the nation is gone... GONE!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. That "good will" you speak of, took a LOT to earn. It's been exploited,..
Edited on Thu Feb-23-06 08:00 PM by Just Me
,...too. These monsters chewed up and spat out EVERY GOOD NESS we earned EARNED in the last half century. They USED "good will" to fill their bottomless bellies, empty hearts and f-upped minds. They are brilliantly polished at conning and deceiving and using people. They are good at something,...something all ethical and moral people know to be evil. Yet, they are getting SOOOO MANY free passes and SO MANY excuses for their violations of basic democratic and legal and human principles.

This country and its people INDULGE in the persecution of gays and sex and women who want to choose their future. Yet, our people allow the most egregious violations of basic laws and morals and ethics and human dignities by this administration pass right by their "screens" and lives, with little emoting.

It's like,...the powerlessness of any perpetual victim. Are we just,...a society of "victims" these days?

:shrug:

I'm trying to understand this phenomenon I can NOT explain in rational, even emotional terms. I just do NOT get it. I just,...don't get it. What's happening here?
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do they still have TV's?
Do they have a full fridge? Lots of Whoppers? Endless supply of plastic at WalMart? A few six-packs? Air conditioning?

As long as those pacifiers are still evident, there will be no uprising. I don't want to hear anymore about religion being the opiate of the masses. The real opiate is TV and fast food.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. But religion plays a huge part in numbing the brains of millions of these
stupid, stupid people who support this evil cabal ...
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Some are religious
but there are plenty of folks with no faith other than in Monday Night Football who also support them.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. I disagree that Americans are stupid. I think some are--a minority--
Edited on Thu Feb-23-06 09:44 PM by Peace Patriot
but then some always have been. That is not the problem. The problem is the disempowerment, demoralization, and, above all, DISENFRANCHISEMENT of the great American progressive majority.

I've watched the issue polls for several years, and it's amazing what they show. There is huge disagreement with the Bush junta, way up in the 60% to 70% range, on every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic. The Iraq war (starting way back before the invasion--58% opposed--it's over 80% today). Torture. Social Security. The deficit. Women's rights. You name it. And this is not even to mention Bush's consistently miserable approval polls--so low before the election that Zogby said he couldn't win, and sinking like the Titanic afterward, to 38% or so all year--and many other stats, such as the Democratic blowout success, nearly 60/40, in new voter registration in 2004.

Yet we don't see this great progressive majority represented in anything like its true numbers in Washington DC, nor by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, who instead give a BIG TRUMPET to the rightwing minority to promulgate its views way out of proportion to its numbers. Even the corporate news monopoly polls indicate a 30% to 40% rightwing minority. Whose views do we hear/see 24/7?

Something is very, very wrong.

And I think it's very simple, in one respect--on the basic fundamental of transparent elections. 80% of the nation's votes were tabulated in 2004 by two rightwing Bushite corporations, using "TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls. Diebold, until last month, had a CEO who was a Bush/Cheney campaign chair, major donor and fundraiser ( a Bush "Pioneer"). ES&S is a spinoff of Diebold, initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson who also gave a million dollars to the far rightwing "Christian" Chalcedon Foundation (who, among other things, tout death for homosexuals). These corporations have an incestuous relationship. They are run by two brothers, Todd and Bob Urosevich.

These are the people who counted most of our votes behind a veil of secrecy.

Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny. And that's what we have.

But this tyranny does have some unique aspects to it, that need understanding. One of them is that many people feel attached to the war profiteering corporate news monopolies as if to an umbilical cord. They may even know that they are being lied to repeatedly and pervasively. But they somehow need this "line" to the nation. They think it's real, somehow. It creates the "nation" somehow. And that is the hook that is used to snare them, unconsciously, into believing, a) that progressive views are minority views, and b) that the rightwing is in the ascendancy, and it's hopeless to even think of changing that--with the members of the great progressive majority therefore feeling isolated and alone, and without a voice.

It's very insidious. I have someone close to me--a very smart person--and, after I explained the facts of our election system to her, here it what she said, "But the Democrats wouldn't let that happen, would they?"

She couldn't see (at first) that it wasn't a matter of whether or not the Democrats "WOULD let it happen." It is a matter of, they DID let it happen. It happened. It has been done--with hardly a peep out of them.

She needs to feel that SOMETHING is working right--in the face of the utter failure of every major political institution in our democracy, including American journalism, and the Democratic Party leadership.

I cannot call her stupid. She isn't. Nor is she egocentric or greedy. She's a caring person.

I think people like her--AND the great majority of Americans--feel very bewildered, also helpless, powerless, demoralized. They don't understand that the mechanism of our sovereignty as a people, our right to vote, has been stolen, along with the last three national elections (2004 mainly via electronics, with highly visible Ohio vote repression being an extra measure that was needed to overcome Kerry's win, which turned out to be bigger than the percentages that had to be pre-programmed into the central tabulators; and 2002 partly by electronics; and in both of these cases, House and Senate seats were switched as well.)

Once you grasp that our election system has literally been taken over by Bushite corporations, everything falls into place. How can Bush and Cheney do what they are doing? They are not beholden to us. They are beholden to Diebold and ES&S--to the most extreme rightwing tiny fascist elite. How can Congress not have impeached them for their egregious violations of the law and malfeasance? Congress is also, for the most part, not beholden to us any more. So they don't care what we think.

Thus, to my mind, election reform is the most obvious place to start turning things around. First, we restore our right to vote, THEN we address the godawful problems that the Bush junta has created for us and for our children and their children, probably to the end of the century.

Power over election systems still resides at the state/local level, where ordinary people still have some influence. That's where we start. It's a difficult, multi-jurisdictional, long term struggle--much like the struggle of black citizens for civil rights and the right to vote, and similar also to South Africa--and to any place oppressed by a fascist junta. But it is doable. It is not a cut and dried situation--there are different types of corruption and fear involved, and occasional public official heroes to champion--and there are different levels of non-transparency (for instance, some states with no paper trail at all--the worst off; other states have a real paper ballot backup, but still with secret programming in the central tabulators, and if you can't get a recount, you may never find the fraud, etc, etc.).

This is what I think we have to do, seek as much transparency as possible, state by state, county by county, to full transparency, over a period of time. And, as we gain more transparency, better people will be elected.

South America is an excellent example. There is a huge leftist revolution occurring in South America right now--with leftist governments being swept to power over virtually the entire map of the subcontinent (Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Venezuela, and Bolivia--with Peru likely next). And one of the things that this revolution is based on is TRANSPARENT elections, the result of long hard work by local civic groups, the OAS, EU election monitoring groups and the Carter Center. It did not happen over night. But it sure is happening now.

Transparent elections = good, leftist government, that cares about people, and responds to the will of the people.

As I said, it's simple, in this respect. Democracy works! --IF you have transparent elections.

Another unique aspect of this junta is the Democratic Party and its reasons for silence while our election system was taken over by Bushites. For a long time, I was thinking: are they insane? I couldn't figure it out. I've come to the conclusion that it's a complex mix of corruption and fear. (The legislation was passed in the era of the anthrax attacks.) And it's possible there are Democrats who are positively benefiting from fixed elections, who don't believe in democracy. (I suspect this of Sen. Christopher Dodd.) It was mostly Bushites Tom Delay and Bob Ney (two of the most corrupt) who engineered this election system coup. So it does not appear to be something that Democratic leadership deliberately did--although their silence, and coverup reports like that issued by the McAuliffe/Brazile faction of the leadership, make me suspicious. As a 40 year loyal Democratic voter, I am just appalled at the Party's corruption on this matter. I attribute some of it also to Democrats who like Bush's war--those tied into war profiteers, who do not WANT to be beholden to a grass roots anti-war majority (something over 90% within the party; something between 60% to 80% nationwide, depending on the question asked.) If you have Dem Senators and House members inexplicably voting with the Bushites, look first to the election SYSTEM.

There is more visible, detectable corruption at the state/local level, which is easier to grasp and to address--and to remedy--corruption more directly tied to the machines. (Lavish lobbying of election officials; "revolving door" employment, election officials purchasing these election theft machines, then going to work for the voting machine company; other state government contracts that these same electronic firms are getting, etc.)

I didn't mean to go into the election reform fight in such detail. I just wanted you (Oregonian) and "Just Me" to not feel so torn, and so negative toward your fellow Americans. I think most of them are really hurting, and truly bewildered by what's happened to their country. They need our help. And I think it's THOSE people we need to locate and help empower. It's the progressive MAJORITY that needs to understand that there IS a remedy--the one most vital, and most fundamental to overall reform: transparent elections.

:think: :wtf: :mad: :banghead: :argh: :woohoo: :toast:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Some election reform resources:
Some resources:

www.votersunite.org (MythBreakers - easy primer on electronic voting--one of the myths is that HAVA requires electronic voting; it does not.)
www.verfiedvoting.org (great activist site)
www.UScountvotes.org (monitoring of '06 and '08 elections)
www.solarbus.org/election/index.shtml (fab compendium of all election info)
www.freepress.org (devoted to election reform)
www.TruthIsAll.net (analysis of the 2004 election)
Sign the petition (Russ Holt, HR 550, great bill-has 169 sponsors). http://www.rushholt.com/petition.html
www.debrabowen.com (Calif Senator running for Sec of State to reform election system)

Also of interest: Also of interest:

Bob Koehler (-- four recent election reform initiatives in Ohio, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, flipped over, on election day, into 60/40 LOSSES!--the biggest flipover we've seen yet; the election theft machines and their masters are now dictating election policy!)
www.tmsfeatures.com/tmsfeatures/subcategory.jsp?file=20051124ctnbk-a.txt&catid=1824&code=ctnbk

Amaryllis (Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia lavish lobbying of election officials - Beverly Hilton, Aug. '05)
www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x380340
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. You're right. Our own people have been BEATEN DOWN,...
,...by the powers-that-be.

I just,...I am feeling,...beaten down, too. :(

I don't want to be a member of that,...that, "beaten down" community. Yet, here I am. FUCK!!! I'm sorry.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. I still believe in our potential.
I still believe that if our votes were counted perfectly that you would find that Americans would do the right thing. I still believe that our Constitution is a brilliant document and I am not yet ready to give up on it.

The people at large have STILL not been given the information. They have not been properly educated. The information needed for informed decisions is hidden in corners of the internet, and in underpowered am radio signals. The information has to be ferreted out and snatched from the corporate juggernaut that masquerades as the "American Media".
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rzemanfl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. You became a former attorney way younger than I did. Good
thinking.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. lol
:7 Believe it or not, I am the envy of certain former supreme court justices and attorneys while simultaneously condemned by anyone without a JD. Imagine that.

I find such "reactions" proof that,..."perceptions" betray reality.
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surfermaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
6. Don't worry you aren't alone on you thoughts, It will pass
I am in my eighties, and remembering back last week to my feeling as a child in my little Georgia School. and remembering the times we would march out side to P. the flag. I remember my little chest would feel like it were bursting with pride and the pride I had for my country and the Great man FDR..I thought we were the Greatest country on earth and nothing could ever hurt us...I thought this last week after thinking I am afraid for this country and how could GWB..do to this country what he has done, and the things that come from his mouth (scary) but the people of this nation are getting their heads out of the sand and we will get this great nation back to what it was... I just hope we get and intelligent man, like Clinton, and FDR...if have to have the best in 2008 and for many years to come...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I do keep saying to myself, "this, too, shall pass".
I remind myself, repeatedly, "life is a course far bigger than my time here".

I shouldn't be so engaged in the pain of these times. But, my heart hurts to witness these things. I am not weighty enough to bear the suffering of so many tragedies.

Yet, I need to make some sense of, bring some meaning to this period in my life which impacts the lives of,...all humanity.
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Bellamia Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. surfermaw, I know how you feel....
I'm 75, and this isn't the country I grew up in, and not the country I want my grandchild to have to grow up in. It is depressing and scary, I remember the good times.................
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Pharaoh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wonderful just me !
K&R

I feel the same, you expressed it beautifully.......
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Thank you, kindly.
It's always gratifying to know that I can, from time to time, express something common among us. :hug:
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Jeanette in FL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I just did the exact same thing
In a post "Guess who is coming to my town?" Just needed to vent as well, thank goodness we have this place where we can vent and not be seen as a lunatic, not that I am far from that place. Good to read that other feel the same way.
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. I'm Seeing This Sentiment More & More Here At DU And Then
we all chime in and say UH, stay the course!

Problem is.... THIS IS NOT A DEMOCRACY... more like a DEMON-CRACY!!

Actually now a REPUKLIC!! I've never in my life seen the likes of such massive corporate take-over. I've heard about Robber Barons from the past, but was it THIS BAD???

Now, class let's all line up and drink our Kool-Aid!

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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
16. When I feel discouraged, I think about what was actually contained...
...in the Constitution, and the values that are uniquely American. The US isn't about land, or a President, or a political party. The US is fundamentally about it's basic ideals - individual freedom and civil rights. Those values can never be taken from me, no matter where I live, no matter what dictator might be in charge. I believe in, and will always believe in, those great and fundamental ideals. It is at the core of my American identity. In my opinion, that's one of the great things about America. It's not race, sex, or origin that defines who we are - it's the ideals we embrace that make us uniquely American, and it's those ideals that make us one people and one nation despite our various differences.

Regardless of where Bush and his minions might take us, those fundamental ideals can't be excised from the American people. Once those fools are out of power (remember Bush's approval is < 40%, and probably even lower now with the ports deal), America will revert to reflect her true ideals. We are Americans, and our government can only shift us away from those ideals temporarily...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. You don't feel like those basic ideals have been,...stolen,...
,...from our people? :shrug:

Ya' see,...that's where I get torn: OUR people DO hold those basic ideals close to heart,...

BUT, they are ideals being violated,...and, WE ARE ALLOWING THEM TO BE DESTROYED.

What are "ideals" if they aren't WILLED into being? :shrug: They are nothing. Nothing. They can't be "stolen" from you: true. But, they have no meaning or substance without actuation, without a demand that they are R-E-A-L.

Moreover, our "government" is supposed to be a supreme reflection of our ideals. Our "government" is supposed to be a better version of our individual selves; lawfully, morally and ethically.

I don't mean to be recalcitrant in response to your post. I'm just sayin',...I'm just telling,...WHAT IS. What is: a leadership that has broken laws, violated human rights, defrauded its people, exploited humanity, engaged in anti-constitutional behavior,...and gets away with all of the foregoing abuses.

I am frustrated over WHAT IS,...and seriously torn about my perspective of MY people and MY nation. Frankly, I think we are, as a people and nation, in need of SERIOUS REHABILITATION (and all those "leaders" who have fucked with the psyches of our culture should be PUT AWAY, FOR-EVER).

That's just my take on this state of our nation, our world, our lives. Means nothing, except to those who sense the same.
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FormerRepublican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. The Bush government is temporary. Our ideals are permanent.
We'll get through this, just like we got through World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam, Nixon, and all the other crises our country has faced. We must endure and all that...

But it will turn around, because no matter what Bush does, he can't change the ideals that make us American, and eventually Bush and our ideals will collide head on, and our ideals will win.

I believe that. Bush is one man. WE are a nation. And the things we hold most dear can't be defeated by the insane desires of one man, regardless of the pain he puts us through in the short term.

I agree that right now things are really rough, and Bush has gotten us into some serious hot water that will need major fixing. But Bush is on his way out, and I will enjoy the show as he goes...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Please forgive my own lapse,...in belief.
I'm disgusted that this administration has impacted my belief in my own people. I am ashamed that I have allowed them to do that,...to me.

I guess I have allowed myself to be overwhelmed by the atrocities, losing my sense of strength in our capacity to make this right.

I must NOT allow my empathy to interfere with my determination to see justice unfold, frustratingly slow, for me and those who are the real-life victims of these,....these,....these, heartless murderers for profit.

I'm just,...frustrated and sick sick SICK of the deception and destruction and exploitation and death.

x(
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. Just Me, please see my post above about who the American people
really and what they really believe. (It's in reply to Oregonian.) And what the remedy is.

And consider the whole world, too, not just the U.S. I am personally tremendously hopeful about what's happening in South America (a huge leftist revolution, the basis of which is TRANSPARENT elections).

Are you speaking of persons you know who cause you to feel despair, or false perceptions of what Americans are all about that you may be picking up subconsciously from the war profiteering corporate news monopolies (whose most important agenda item is to mischaracterize us, and thus disempower us, in my opinion)?

I have friends who go through feelings like yours--and they tend to be plugged into the corporate news monopolies (even if they don't believe most of what they see/hear CONSCIOUSLY).

I hesitated to ask this question, because I don't want to be insulting. But I think maybe you need to consider it. Where are you getting your perceptions of the American people from?

---------------

The war profiteering corporate news monopolies, by the way, were the ones who FALSIFIED their exit polls, on everybody's TV screens, late on election day 2004, to force their exit polls (Kerry won) to FIT the results of Diebold's and ES&S's secret formulae--thus depriving the American people of major evidence of election fraud, and squelching protests and calls for investigation. This was a major, major crime against the American people.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
17. We're About the Same Age...
...and I feel just like you do. I don't understand what is wrong with people, & I also no longer buy all those American myths I grew up with. It's sad. I wish it didn't have to be this way. I want things to go back to the way they used to be, when I still had hope. But I have known about all this neocon stuff for awhile now. I first noticed that something was wrong when Bush Sr. was President. That's when all the downsizings started. For the first time in my life, I worried that I wouldn't be able to make it economically. And because of people like Rush Limbaugh, I could no longer get along with Republicans. He turned them into hateful people that I just could not stand. I had a tough time "adjusting" to this new neocon world, so it eventually led to a bad bout of depression. I'm glad I got help for that, because I just don't know if I could deal with things the way they are now if I hadn't. Don't get me wrong--I'm not this happy-go-lucky person all the time. But at least I'm not really bad like I was. Anyway, the complete destruction of the neocons is what I live for. And I cannot understand the apathy I come across. It does seem like more people are waking up, but the process is just so damn *slow*. So I know how you feel.

Tammy
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. The Reagan regime hinted at me,...
,...but, I was too young and too,...self-involved and survivalist at that time to be pulled into the facts and the reality of the political and power-mongering neoconster realm.

I never had any expectations of a life in status quo or times "being the way they used to be". I don't know what that is: times "being the way they used to be". My expectation was that, we would progress and get better and improve the OVERALL quality of human life,...here and abroad.

Meanwhile, the quality of human life has dropped dramatically in my own country and, frankly, has become an unbearable sight for me to bear among my fellow patriots, and among my one race, the human race, around this world. There is no excuse for such human-imposed suffering upon humanity. It's not GOD doing such awful damage to our human race,...IT IS HUMAN BEINGS FUCKING IT ALL UP!!!

There is quite enough to give and go around. But, "the takers" are in charge and they don't give a shit about their fellow human lot. To the contrary, they exploit the weak. That is so evil. They, the exploiters, call the weak, "lazy" or "worthless" or some other inhumane label to justify outright greed and evil imposition of will. We let them do it, we Americans,...and our "representatives".

It makes me sick. It makes me sick that these barbaric assholes wield the Christian community into their fold,...they wield the "losing" Republican lots into their fold,...they wield the disenchanted/disillusioned/disgusted into their fold,...all of whom are being SOLD, sold off for these assholes' love of and addiction to money and power, without principle. All the "extremists" have risen from the rocks of barbarianism to join this administration's fold of destruction,...and they, too, are being exploited.

The worst of our lot is in charge,...and the worst of our lot is being empowered. What a fucking mess.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. I gave up on the concept of "my country" after My Lai and Kent State.
"Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools." Schopenhauer
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. What would be said of a "patriot of principle"?
I think the term "patriot" should be treated with respect. BUT, I am talking about the TRUE form of "patriot" and "patriotism",...not the insane shit being thrown out by corporacratic global fascist types who manipulate such honorable wo/men and ideals as being robots/slaves for profiteers.

Just MHO.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:23 PM
Response to Original message
21. 60+ here...it's not just what's happened since 2000, altho that's bad enuf
enuff

it's being forced to reexamine US history more thoroughly than I had to even during the 60s Civil Rights Movement and the anti-Vietnam War protests

and it's realizing that today there seems to be NO ONE in the government (in all 3 branches: executive, legislative, judicial) or in the national media who cares about what is actually happening in the lives of real people

in the Civil Rights Movement, localities might do horrible things but there was always the feeling (and many times the fact) that the federal government, the federal courts, the national media was/would be responsive in the end

now there just isn't that feeling

the December 12, 2000 supreme court decision that handed the election to W in a 5-4 vote was horrific........anyone not appalled by that I just don't understand.....it was so over the top, in your face, blatant---everything afterward has been just a footnote

who could have ever dreamed that a presidential election would NOT be decided by a vote of the people.......that the supreme court would decide 'for us'
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
23. I think the last six years has proven that we are not a united country,
We don't have a common ideal. If we can't find common ground in the constitution, then we are not really a defined nation. We are being run by very clever people who know what to say in order to push buttons, but they are at heart, anarchists. And anarchists, once revealed, have no foundation to bring a diverse group of people together for any common cause. They certainly have no right to call on our patriotism, since they have nothing they believe in.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I think the last six years has proven,...we are living in a facade.
Appearances mean EVERYTHING,...reality,...facts,...disturb all those "appearances" we MUST maintain.

We are falling a part,...and are unwilling to face it. That lack of "will" to address our own sickness,...makes us,...dysfunctional, sick,...despised by the rest of the world,...and incapable of healing our own wounds.

We are not whole. We are fragmented, disturbed, miserable, angry, cynical, disillusioned,...afraid. Why on earth we would imagine ourselves ABLE to spread "democracy",...is beyond "Just Me".

We have the GREATEST NUMBER OF VIOLENT CRIMES IN THE WORLD!!!! We have horrendous domestic violence occuring, overflowing prisons, disparity among the rich and poor, domestic terrorism, children dying from inadequate healthcare, increased poisoned streams and air, MORE NUKE PRODUCTION, MORE WMD PRODUCTION,....

We are living in a totally dysfunctional environment. How long can the sane live in an insane environment before adapting?
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. I like punk.
Imagine hearing this in 1978. The Avengers. (And also imagine that Jello Biafra of the Dead Kennedies, had his studio raided by the FBI back around the same time.) A few of us have been living in Bush's world for quite a long time. Welcome to America as I know it.

This isn't the best example. But this tune The American in Me is playing at the moment. And it seems fairly apt.

It's the American in me that makes me watch the blood
running out of the bullethole in his head.
It's the American in me that makes me watch TV
see on the news, listen what the man said.
He said,

"Ask not what you can do for your country
what's your country been doing to you
Ask not what you can do for your country
what's your country been doing to your mind?"

It's the American in me that makes me says it an honor to die
in a war that's just a politicians lie
It's the American in me that makes me watch TV
see how they burn the SLA
They say

"Ask not what you can do for your country
what's your country been doing to you?
Ask not what you can do for your country
what's your country been doing to you?"

In the USA!
In the USA!
In the USA!

It's the American in me that makes me watch the blood
running out of the bullethole in his head.
It's the American in me that never wonders why
Kennedy was murdered by the FBI (said)

"Ask not what you can do for your country
what's your country been doing to you?
Ask not what you can do for your country
what's your country been doing to you?...
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Yes. The "fabrication",...disturbs? hurts? angers?,...me.
I don't think I'll ever lose my sense of being "an American" and all that I am, or sense of everyone I know who ACTUALLY stands for being,..."an American".

What fucks everything up,...is those who have exploited me and my people's position as GREAT "Americans",...and those ANTI-AMERICAN power-mongers do anything/everything to expand their greedy selves,...FORCING us by FRAUD to be their slaves in such ignoble, unlawful, immoral plots.

They MAKE us "hate" them. They MAKE us their "enemies". They USE and ABUSE and EXPLOIT the best of us to satisfy the worst of their human ills.

Gross. They are gross. I wish they would just,...go away.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. I hear you. It has bothered me immensely that half our
fellow Americans have accepted the immoral and criminal behavior of these so-called leaders as okay and necessary for us to be secure and enjoy our standard of living. I find it abominable.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-24-06 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #25
38. I wouldn't say half
Edited on Fri Feb-24-06 01:00 AM by marions ghost
the country thinks it is all OK. It's more like a third or less, but it's this third that is running things and making the rest of us feel like hostages.

WHY is this criminal and immoral behavior supported? The answer is complex, but it's partly because there is an acceptance of criminal and immoral activity as the norm. Cheating is OK. The only thing that matters is degree of legal exposure. Standards of morality and fairness are degraded. I don't want to give a dissertation on this topic here, but suggest to read "The Cheating Culture"--why more Americans are doing wrong to get ahead" by David Callahan:

"Callahan's 'Winning Class' has created a separate moral reality where it cheats without consequences--while the 'Anxious Class' believes choosing not to cheat could cancel its only shot at success in a winner-take-all world."

No matter what your economic level, if you yourself have done serious wrong at some point, you are more likely to tolerate this same behavior in leaders, or even to become emboldened by such leaders TO commit a serious wrong. There is an 'everybody does it' mentality that makes perfect sense to those who don't have the strongest moral fiber to begin with. There's a camraderie in it even. We live in a climate that makes it very easy to go with the ends justify the means. I think we need ethics education at high school level to counter the messages of our Lord of the Flies culture.

We have a split personality in this country--many people evolved like the OP with high ideals and high moral values, while others are schooled in valueless expediency--ie. to get it ANY way they can (just don't get caught). We are seeing a clash between these divergent attitudes. And they do not understand each other whatsoever.
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FreedRadical Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
33. The hope is hear NOW.....
There is a greater goodness to this country and indeed the world. This goodness, for lack of a better term, is bigger than us all. This is why belief holds such power. We are small as a part. The whole is stunning, transcending all we are capable of knowing. The constitution, when written, did not mean us all. However, we have been a part of something GREAT. It is this point I am most proud off and have most faith in. I am Freedradical for a reason. The reason is, the American Revaluation was a radical idea. The civil war, women suffrage, both world wars, civil rights, etc etc, were all radical ideas. Look back on the attitudes of the people of the times and you would think we are powerless to change this. Our grates legacies is that these things were changed. WE CAN DO THIS TOO To all of you I would like to shear my childish hope
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. We,...WE have a dream. We have a dream no one can steal from us.
Our dream is a mature one,...beyond childish fantasies,...a dream that can be realized through our will.

:hug:

I had a moment where I allowed the disease of those who exploit for themselves to infect a human dream that can be realized through persistence and will and action.

I thank EVERYONE who innoculated me against such a disease.

Thank you. Thank you.
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RagAss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
35. Let's face it, we're all fucked.....
I'm resigned to death at the hands of the American SS.....they'll have to kill me and they will...because I'm not going to the camps they're building....
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oscarguy Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-23-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
37. You are stuck here my friend and cannot afford to give up. BUSHCO sinking
fast, do not give up now. I do know how you feel because I OFTEN feel the same. Never the less my whole life has taught me you cannot afford to ever give up. They count on that and we know who they are. At one time in my life I was put in the dying room. I was all alone,with half of my guts shot out my back, from a bullet that entered my lower chest. No Corpsman attending me, nothing. A priest came in and asked me if I wanted last rights. I told him I was not a Catholic but was very cold and wanted a blanket. He said there was a shortage of blankets and maybe he could get a sheet for me. I said : get me one , I am very cold. When you lose a lot of blood you get cold. He did get me a sheet and would come in and peek on my now and then to see if I had died yet. There were a lot of causalities at that time and I was put in the dying room on a stainless steel place that had a drain for blood and such. I got furious and that is what kept me alive. Everytime I saw that DICKHEAD peek in on me wanting to see if I had died yet,AND THAT kept me going. I stayed alive, and in my turn I was operated on and lived. I went back and served another tour in Viet Nam. I never give up, ever and don`t you. We are going to win this one. BUSHCO is on it`s way down and out. You don`t fail until you quit trying or die. I know this may strike you as pretty weird stuff. So be it. What do you think those guys and gals are going through " Over There ". We do have a Nation worth fighting for. We very much need a change in leadership. DO NOT GIVE UP. ...Oscar
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EuroObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-24-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. k&r n/t
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-24-06 01:50 AM
Response to Original message
39. you are suffering from
having trusted a system that was not worthy of trust. I have been there, too. It is a hard lesson. Having realized it a decade ago, I was somewhat prepared for the official hijacking of the government by Bushco and so it was not such a shock when it came. But I'm not doing any better as to what to do about it now that we've had 5 years of systematic abuse. Why are people putting up with it? Why is the outrage missing? Many reasons have been mentioned here--fear, denial, being overwhelmed by circumstances, living in a culture of corruption, laziness, ignorance, pride, media manipulation. I would also add that Americans have a characteristic stoicism, usually positive -- but it can lead us to put up with too much abuse.

There is a "victim mentality' which the Dark Side cultivates. It involves denial but is even less healthy than ordinary denial which may come to a sudden end when its usefulness is gone. The victim mentality means that someone is awake to the Truth, yet has accepted their own powerlessness. This is what we must fight above all. Yes we are down now, but there WILL be opportunities. We need to be awake to the Truth so that we can take advantage of them. I believe there is enough fighting spirit in this country to make that happen. You are in a good position now OP, to help others come to the hard realization that you have, and help them through it to the other side. There IS another plateau beyond this nightmare. But this--our national nervous breakdown--is the first step to recovery.
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FreedRadical Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-24-06 03:04 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. Thank you and goodnight.
This was a good thread for me. If anything I trust to goodness of the collective. IT's NOT JUST ME Hope is hear! NOW!!!! Thank you the collective of DU. I BELIEVE:grouphug:
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-24-06 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
42. US Government has been on this track for quite awhile-bubble
had to burst sometime, the corruption and decay is now EVIDENT, and with this Knowledge, deceptive veils being lifted everyhour (it seems!) the Sheeple of America have to evolve into The People-it won't be an overnight sensation, rather, a long haul. Even the Evangelicals that truly believe they will be raptured very shortly will have to stick it out-unless they can't handle the awful truth and rapture themselves one way or another.
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