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Both the US & Iran Have Presidents Who Believe The 2nd Coming Is Imminent!

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:20 PM
Original message
Both the US & Iran Have Presidents Who Believe The 2nd Coming Is Imminent!
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 07:20 PM by cryingshame
From the thread about the destruction of Samarra Shrine we learn that Iran's president Ahmadinejad believes that the second coming of a holy Muslim religious figure is imminent.

So basically, we have both the US and Iran Presidents who are freaking end timers... :wow:

"The Twelfh Imam or Mahdi is believed by Shiites to have disappeared into a supernatural realm (just as Christians believe in the ascension of Christ) from which he will someday return.

Some Shiites think his second coming is imminent. Muqtada all-Sadr and his followers are among them. They are livid about this attack on the shrine of the Mahdi's father.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is also a firm believer in the imminent coming of the Mahdi."
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Call that
a recipe for incipient disaster.
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Rocknrule Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. I know Bush is a false Christian
but does anyone have actual evidence that he's an End Timer freak?
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. It's been said the reason Robertson stepped down from Christian Coalition
in Dec 01 after Bush was elected was cause he saw Bush as fulfillment of
divine plan.

Bush almost certainly has a Messianic complex. And Robertson said as much when he came out saying Bush claimed there wouldn't be any casualties in Iraq.

Here is something I found that touches on this:

"Lynn said that a number of evangelicals, inspired in part by minister Tim LaHaye's "Left Behind" novels, have come to view politics as part of their religion. "There is a strain of evangelical Christians who believe it is political figures who usher in the Second Coming," he said. As such, Bush "is the spiritual and political leader of a moral revolution"
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. False Christian?
I know he is a prick, but why does that kick him out of the club?
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. Laura believes that too, but the 1st one never happens either nt
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Emit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Found this old piece written by Ledeen re: end time beliefs
Edited on Wed Feb-22-06 07:44 PM by Emit
This end time belief thing is of interest to me as someone who was actually quite shocked to find so many people of many faiths believe in it, albeit from different perspectives. I was unaware of this Shiite belief.

I did come across an interesting article a while back. Michael Ledeen and his wife, Barbara wrote it back in 1984. I can not provide a link, nor post the entire article (I obtained it through Lexis-Nexis.), which is sad because for those who are interested, it is an interesting read.

It is important, IMHO, because it sheds some light into Ledeen’s interests in what motivates people to take a stance – (as does his obsessive works on fascism.) I think he found just what motivates people – religiosity in fanatical forms. I also think this is interesting because I had read, too, that Barbara Ledeen was an editor for a magazine/group who has apparently been involved in advocating the archaeological exploration of the Temple, and, supposedly, for tearing it down and rebuilding. I read this in a report that was conducted on behalf of a group associated with LaRouche, however, and have not been able to verify this at all, so I won't even bother trying to find a link. But, I throw that out there because I'm really curious if Ledeen, for example, is a believer in this or if he's just pushing this religiosity in order to garner some favored outcome.

It's all very curious to me, and I'm always shocked to find out how much money and effort is put into these groups and that those of us (like me) who are more secular in their beliefs and who don't run in the circles are kind of in the dark about these groups:

A CASUAL OBSERVER might be excused for believing that nearly all of the recent violence in Israel has been part of the usual cycle of Arab-Israeli conflict. The observer would be wrong. Though some of the recent acts ... seem to be the work of extremist Israeli nationalists, much of the destructive intent is fueled by a mixture of nationalist politics, messianic longing, and the search for roots. In fact, some of the current extremism is a direct outgrowth of the ancient forecast of the Apocalypse.

The targets of the most spectacular incidents over the past months have been Muslim authorities and the area they control in Jerusalem, but for the most part the people who planned or participated in the attacks are the violent fringe of an informal movement that stretches from the United States to the Middle East, and encompasses millions of evangelical Christians as well as some Israeli Jews. This unlikely coalition rests upon a common belief that the Final Days are upon us. For the Christians, this means that the Second Coming of Christ is imminent; for the Jews, the Messiah is about to arrive. Both believe that the crucial spot for the fulfillment of the Biblical prophecies is the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, because that is where the Temple of Solomon is to be rebuilt. According to the fundamentalist understanding of Christian prophecy, three great events are required for the Second Coming: Israel must be a Jewish nation; Jerusalem must be a Jewish city; and the Temple must be rebuilt. Today only the third condition remains to be met. Though most Jews believe that the building of the Temple will occur after the arrival of the Messiah, a growing number of deeply religious Jews believe that efforts to rebuild the Temple, and other steps for its proper functioning, should be made before the Messianic Age.

~snip~

On March 10, 1983, more than forty Jews suspected of planning to penetrate the Temple Mount were arrested in Jerusalem. ... Their legal fees--amounting to $50,000--were paid by wealthy Christian evangelicals from Texas. Less than a year later, only last January 27, Israeli security forces thwarted an assault on the Mount ... There is good reason to believe that the money for this group, the so-called Lifta Band, also came from Christian sources in America ... the suspects began to be cooperative only after an Israel officer had "scolded them for using a Bible published by a Christian group as their religious source." ... At the Temple Mount the religious passions of the Muslim, Christian, and Jewish religions intersect as at no other on earth. Not only is the Mount the site of Solomon's Temple, it is also where Abraham came to sacrifice his son Isaac; where Jesus taught, and threw the money-changers out of the Temple; from where Mohammed ascended through the seven Heavens into the presence of Allah... Except for a few years during the Crusades, the Temple Mount has been under Muslim control since the conquest of Jerusalem almost fourteen hundred years ago...

Political pragmatism, however, is unlikely to withstand the messianic passions that are directed at the Temple Mount... The Israeli courts have generally denied the right of Jews to pray on the Temple Mount, but there are signs of change there, too. ... The driving force behind the Temple Mount movement, however, is the American evangelical community, some 45.5 million strong. The evangelicals met regularly with former Prime minister Menachem Begin over the years, reportedly urging him to rebuild the Temple, and they raced to Washington this spring to endorse the proposal to move the American Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, citing Biblical prophecies of the day in the near future when Jerusalem will become the capital of the world. ... The most visible link between the evangelicals and the drive to rebuild the Temple is found in the Jerusalem Temple Foundation in Los Angeles, the latest of several organizations (and the only such group in the United States) designed to put pressure on the Israeli government to limit the Waqf's control over the Temple Mount. The chairman and executive director of this ecumenical foundation are Terry Risenhoover and Douglas Krieger, two Christian evangelicals who have the means, the energy, and the network of friends necessary to catalyze a mass movement (Risenhoover is a multimillionaire, owner of a company called Alaska Land Leasing that is currently planning searches for oil in Judea and Samaria). ... ... Deloach's senior pastor at the Second Baptist Church in Houston (the switchboard operator answers calls by saying, "The amazing second"), H. Edwin Young, is likely to be the next president of the 13 million-member Southern Baptist Convention, America's largest Protestant body. Both pastors accompany groups to Israel and take them to the Temple Mount and to the Jewish yeshivahs training priests for the Temple. Deloach is candid about his objectives: "We will do whatever is right and politically expedient to make that Temple Mount free for all three religions." ...

~snip~

Some of the members of these committees, yeshivahs, and groups are simply interested in the historical or scientific aspects of the Temple Mount. But many--and their number is growing--are working for a Jewish presence on the Mount, and eventually the rebuilding of the Temple. Some of these people are highly orthodox, and firmly believe that the Messiah will soon arrive. Others are primarily Israeli nationalists, who view Muslim control of the Temple Mount as an insult to the Zionist Dream. But in the end the religious and nationalistic themes are hard to distinguish from each other, and the effect is the same: Waqf control over the Temple Mount is being challenged. ...BY FAR the most dynamic of the challengers is the Israeli section of the Jerusalem Temple Foundation, headed by Stanley Goldfoot, a South African Jew who came to Israel in the '30s and fought in the Stern Gang during the postwar period. A passionate nationalist, a highly skilled rhetorician, and a man of demonstrated activism, Goldfoot believes that the Temple Mount belongs to Israel, and to Israel alone. ... Goldfoot sees the Christians as logical allies, for he believes that "Christian fundamentalists are the real modern-day Zionists"; in Goldfoot's view, it is the christians above all who realize that "we are coming to a crucial period in earth's history, and they want to help fulfill prophecy and thus hasten the coming of the Messiah." ...It is thus not so surprising that those who planned to sabotage the Temple Mount in January carried Christian versions of the Old Testament, for the Temple Mount movement is based on a messianic vision that, at least in its first stages, is common to both Jewish and Christian religions. To be sure, there is a basic disagreement, but it is one that will only be resolved in the Final Days. As one Jewish leader put it to us last summer in Jerusalem, "They believe that once the Temple is built, Jesus will come again. We expect the Messiah to come for the first time. Let's build the Temple, and see what he looks like."

~snip~

Historically, messianic movements tend to be strongest in periods of intense internal turmoil and external threat. Both of these elements are present in contemporary Israel, and the Israelis' anxieties are largely shared by the American "Christian Zionists." All we know about the Temple Mount suggests that it will grow in interest and become a source of conflict, with international consequences that are hard to predict. Up until the arrests of the twenty-five extremists, the Israeli government either ignored the Temple Mount movement or attempted to co-opt it, but neither approach was successful. It remains to be seen whether the arrests will dampen the ardor of the zealots. With the redemption of mankind and the fulfillment of prophecy at stake, arrests are transformed into temporary setbacks, extremism becomes righteous action, and political considerations pale into such insignificance that even conservative Christians and radical Jewish nationalists can become allies.

Source Citation: Ledeen, Michael, and Barbara Ledeen. "The Temple Mount plot: what do Christian and Jewish fundamentalists have in common?." The New Republic 190 (June 18, 1984): 20(4).


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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
6. Rev. Moon is already here. The "messiah" has arrived for Bush & Cronies
They are all jiggy with their buddy, Rev. Moon -- the Republican "Jesus"
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NYC Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
7. And they're both gonna try to make it happen, together!
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-22-06 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
9. War in March
Unless cooler heads prevail.
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