American workers, have you got the message yet?

[underpants]

You uppity transit workers, how dare you have a union and negotiate great benefits for yourself DON'T YOU KNOW HOW MUCH MONEY YOU COST THE PEOPLE WHO OWN EVERYTHING??!?!??!

It actually does require a Federal lawsuit to take a lunch break at Walmart.

As NBC reported a few weeks ago it is absolutely and completely normal to take your cell, Blackberry, and laptop with you on vacation so that you can check in an still produce for your employer. Everyone is doing it.

Ah ah ah no complaining-that National Guard enlistment form clearly cites Army regs that say you CAN be called up for deployment overseas and 11B infantryman duty is EVERYONE'S second MOS.

You subterranean workers-it your own damned fault you were born where you were born, do what everyone has for generations, and work in such a dangerous occupation. You also need to stop talking on those cell phones-see where all that talking to each other got you last night? Yeah that was your fault too.

NOW that we have that settled. The company store is doubling the minimum payment on all those credit card charges you just ran up defending the traditions of Christmas.

[lesab]

1. wow

That is completely and totally hitting the nail on the head.

[underpants]

2. Welcome to DU

:hi: and thanks

[EC]

3. And Gee, don't you love working overtime and getting

possible comp time for it (no cash of course, that could make you a threat to the bosses way of life) - of course it is at the employers descretion as to when you can take that time off...

And how about that wonderful health insurance plan we just gave you? $5,000. deductable too much? Well, then you can join the other 49% not insured...

[underpants]

4. Reallly? That's just what I am looking for!!!

Just give me a second to get off this turnip truck.

[holboz]

17. Husband's employer had record profits last year...

so everyone was expecting an extra good Christmas bonus this year. Not the case. Last year they gave out a $500 bonus; this year they handed out a $100 gift check from American Express and offered them 4 more days off next year. DISPICABLE. My husband put it loads of 50 hour weeks for huge, profitable projects and that's the thanks he gets. This is why we're trying to break away and start our own business. Why work hard to make someone else rich??

It's scary to see what this country has become.

[converted_democrat]

5. Hell ya...K&R..You are spot on!! Good post, really makes one think! n/t

[LincolnMcGrath]

6. Honored to give this a fifth!

:yourock:

[underpants]

8. Hey thanks to each of you

:hi:

[kiteinthewind]

7. Excellent!!

:applause: :woohoo:

[welshTerrier2]

9. class warfare - let's call it what it really is

I take those monthly Zogby polls ... after they ask all their little questions about the issue-du-jour, they like to collect some demographic information ... two questions they ask are especially interesting ... first, they ask if you consider yourself a member of the "investor class" ... one might answer "yes" to this question merely because one owns a few stocks or has a 401K retirement plan ... but then they separately ask whether you own any stock ... the point is that merely owning stock hardly makes you a member of the "investor class" ...

the right would like you to believe otherwise ... they love to point out that 85% of Americans own stock and that policies that cater to the investor class, for example giving tax "discounts" on investment income, is helpful to most Americans ... the problem is that this is just NOT the case ... it's "the big lie" ...

"the big lie" is nothing more than Reagan's trickle down economics ... the famous saying is that "a rising tide lifts all boats" ... the reality is that a rising tide drove millions of poor people from their homes in New Orleans ... most of them did NOT own boats ...

it is NOT necessarily the case that anything good for stockholders is bad for labor ... some policies can benefit both groups ... but many policies that have been devastating to labor, i.e. American workers, have been extremely lucrative for stockholders ... NAFTA, CAFTA, WTO and other globalization abuses? stockholders have made a bundle; labor has lost their jobs ... mergers? i mean big, spectacular anti-free-market mergers? good for stockholders (at least initially); labor always loses ...

Democrats have not yet found the formula to put forward a pro-labor agenda that attacks corporate abuses ... they have not yet found their voice or their message on how to attack special interest legislation and abusive policies without being labeled anti-business ... sound economic, fiscal and tax policies should seek a balance between enhancing shareholder interests and enhancing the interests of workers ... in the end, policy decisions should cater first to labor and then to shareholders ... an hour of work should always be valued more highly than a dollar invested ... human "assets" should always be valued more highly than monetary "assets" ...

catering to shareholders has not only led to abuses of labor; it's led to abuses of our democratic institutions ... national policy has been set to benefit corporate interests under the mistaken belief that this will "lift all boats" ... Congress has allowed incredible abuses, i.e. legalized blackmail, by permitting paid lobbyists to operate in the halls of our government ... this had led not only to anti-labor policies but also to devastating foreign policies that are clearly NOT in the national interest ... with a little wink and a nod, foreign governments are toppled, wars are waged, and foreign peoples and their national resources are exploited ... anyone who believes this is all done under the guise of American nationalism is truly naive ... while the poor serve in the all volunteer military, the wealthiest Americans are reaping the profits of their labor and their loss of life ...

until Democrats educate Americans on exactly how the game is being played, we will continue to hear DU'ers asking that oft asked question: "i don't get it; why do so many people vote against their own interests" ... the answer is very clear; they aren't getting the information they need from the opposition party ... class warfare, whether we like it or not, is being waged by an elite ruling class against American workers ... even many who see what's happening aren't really sure how to respond ... what's needed to change the paradigm is leadership ... when the case is finally made and the call to respond is finally issued, there will be a tidal wave to overthrow the current regime ...

[underpants]

10. 90% of Americans say they are the middle class

this isn't arguing with you this is meant to supplement what you wrote. 90% that means people who value themselves UP as well as DOWN. I read this stat in a Molly Ivins piece.

Now about the class warfare. This is basically the conservative model set forth by Lewis Powell in his 1971 memo to the US Chamber of Commerce- (see below) the foundation of today's Conservative movement. Base everything on money, the all holy dollar. Get wealthy guys in suits to explain it to everyone (see they must know what they are talking about they are already rich) and get THEM thinking that they are investors. Now you can frame everything so that they will sell themselves out to themselves.

Powell's memo
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html

Lastly-this just hit me this morning watching our local investment advisor on the local TV. IRAs and 401's good deals sure but notice how any mention of pensions is immediately redirected towards YOU OWNING YOUR OWN FUTURE and how YOU can offset any of those old fashioned pension benefits with YOUR OWN ACCOUNT and think about how that ties into W's failed Social Security pitch.

[welshTerrier2]

12. yes, i agree with this ...

just for clarity, i was NOT trying to suggest that most Americans actually see themselves as part of the "investor class" ... i think the 90% figure (i.e. seeing themselves as "middle class") is probably very accurate ...

the point i was making is that the propaganda being pushed by the Corporate State is trying to convince Americans that they are part of the "investor class" ... i'm sure they've been able to convince a few ...

what's strange about all this class warfare business is the politics ... look closely at the Democratic Party ... they must really fear a political backlash if they use the "class warfare" rhetoric ... you can see in many speeches they make the fact that they understand the stranglehold that corporate America has on the Congress and the WH ... but they just will never directly engage the battle ... they just will not consistently hammer the theme that republicans and especially neo-cons do anything and everything to serve their corporate masters at the expense of the country ... they sort of talk around the problem but will never clearly label the enemy and name the game they're playing ...

for example, Democrats will readily criticize bush's tactics in Iraq but they have NEVER questioned his motives ... imperialism is alive and well in Washington because the opposition party refuses to tell the American people the truth ... without education, and leadership, nothing will change ...

[underpants]

14. Scared to death of being compared to socialists

class warfare and all. You hear this all the time on RW radio-if anyone dare bring this up they are "resorting" to "class warfare" (read:They are anti-American commie pinko communists).

The Dems should take this on and primarily this way-GO right after the small business people and work policies directly towards them. Health insurance is a biggee but the BIG seller would be to point out how the rich don't pay their share (W admitted to this during the campaign-not that it was ever mentioned again) and that THEY are ripping YOU off.

THAT is a winning strategy-it will take years to do it but the Dems should become the party of the small business (majority employer in the US) and not just pay it lip service while screwing them on the other end like the Repubs have been able to do.

[welshTerrier2]

15. if you don't play, you can't win

Democrats have chosen many of their political strategies out of fear of how they will be labeled by the right ...

Greens, Socialists and Communists see the Democratic Party as no different than republicans when it comes to exploiting the masses ... some see Democrats as even worse because they provide a "numbing appeasement" ... for example, they will push for things like the Family Leave Act which is pro-worker but will not do anything to truly reorder the power between corporations and their workers ... my view is that the jury is still out on this issue ...

some Democrats, especially the DLC, have made a big deal out of trying to obliterate the "98 pound weakling" image that they believe McGovern and the peacenik wing of the party brought about ... macho is the new political strategy ... the first three words of your last post's subject show why they're not succeeding: "scared to death" ...

i think voters see the so-called centrist Dems as running away from their true beliefs or at least what many think are their true beliefs ... when they "stand with the president" or "support the mission in Iraq", instead of being seen as "new, tough Democrats", they're seen as being "fearful of labels" for political reasons ...

this is NOT to argue that centrist policies are necessarily worse than leftist policies; it's to argue that as a political strategy they are NOT necessarily better either ... running to the center, AS A POLITICAL STRATEGY, is crazy ... what voters are looking for from politicians is sincerity, depth of commitment, and real solutions ... very few voters are able to discuss policies in detail ... how many voters, even DU'ers, could articulate Kerry's health care proposals and contrast his position with their own? how about tax policy? how about education policy?

issues do matter ... they're critically important ... we pay too much attention to things like hair style and wind surfing ... but running to the middle for political reasons, as opposed to what candidates genuinely believe are the best policies, is madness ... if Democrats stop running away from the labels republicans will call them and started to boldly take the best positions for the country, they would soon find themselves back in the majority ...

[uppityperson]

11. IF you have insurance and used it, it's your fault premiums are increasing

You make it more expensive for us all.

[underpants]

13. Yeah you parasites

Probably went all crying to FEMA when your lost your house because you HAD to live by the water huh? How much did that cost ME?!?!??!

Parasites.

[lostinacause]

16. "doubling the minimum payment " is not a bad thing

From a public policy stand point this is actually a good thing. It increases the perceived cost of maintaining a credit card at no real cost to the user. Hopefully in will bring credit card usage and the cost associated with those who maintain a balance down.

[Zodiak]

18. Along with....

a few million families. Explain how millions of families being exploited into debt peonage is good from a public policy standpoint? If we ignore their suffering, perhaps, but not everything is dollars and cents.

Without a safety net, those that fall will drag the rest of us down with them. That is the essence of why we must help the least among us.

[holboz]

19. Exactly. Our $20k cc debt was medical...

And we even had insurance. My daughter was delivered by emergency c-section and was born with pneumonia and a hole in her lung. She's a healthy precocious 2 year old now with no problems, thank god, but the hospital expected us to pay the balance due within 6 months of her birth. HA! My husband is from England so you can imagine how absolutely outraged he was because we wouldn't have had to pay a dime if she was born in the UK. On top of that, the government would have given her 250 pounds Sterling (about $450) to start her own Child Trust Fund with a 5% APR.

England is looking better and better to us with each passing day. Yes, they have their share of problems but at least health care isn't considered a privilege over there.

[lostinacause]

21. I'm not sure I get what you are saying.

The interest rate, not the minimum payment affects the amount that is paid to service debt. The minimum payment just states the rate at which it is to be paid off. All other things being equal having a minimum payment make the perceived cost of credit cards appear to go up. The total cost (the costs due to interest) do not go up. People would respond to the perceived increase by using credit cards less and not keeping as high of a balance.

If I understand you correctly, you seem to think that an increased minimum payment means a higher cost of using these cards.

[Zodiak]

25. No, it is not that

For one, this bill was coupled with pulling the plug on interest rate caps, so segmenting recent credit card "reform" into only the minimum payment issue is losing sight of the forest for the trees. That aside, demanding double the minimum payments may not be th equivalent to demanding payment in full, but its effect will be much the same. These credit card companies KNOW that millions of Americans are just getting by, and so demanding double payments will inevitably make many of these families fall into ruin because doubling credit card payments (while letting interest rates increase dramatically) would be what finally puts them over the edge.

If double payments were phased in over time with caps placed on interest rates (plus regulation of bad lending practices by lenders), then that would be some kind of effective reform as you have envisioned it. Double payments coupled with deregulated interest rates (based on the ability to pay those double payments) is the credit card industry's way of kneecapping the American consumer.

The last thing this economy needs is less viable consumers. This recent credit card reform will ensure that our domestic market shrinks further.

[lostinacause]

26. I understand now.

I don't agree with you on your view that the credit card companies actually want to put consumers under. It doesn't benefit them to do so. Everything else you said makes sense.

[Zodiak]

28. It is not that they WANT to

but in their blind rush to get as much money as they can, this is exactly what is going to happen. They know their customers are suffering (deep inside), but they choose instead to believe that they are just holding out...whining...being freeloaders.

I honestly believe that the credit card industry never examined the potential effects of their lobbying beyond being able to collect more money and get more profits. How often do industries do an social impact study on the economic policies?

[Ilsa]

20. I thought this sentence was going to end differently:

As NBC reported a few weeks ago it is absolutely and completely normal to take your cell, Blackberry, and laptop with you on vacation so that you can check in and still manage your daily embezzlement of funds and its cover.

[demigoddess]

22. was hearing on AAR this morning that if you worked at McDonalds

in France you got almost twice the salary. Fewer hours a week. Free health care. Free day care. Free school from preschool through university or vocational school. Longer maternity leave.

And the republicans think this is bad? Sounds like family values to me. BTW I have lived in France and those benefits have been in effect since the 50's or 60's. That is not a failed state in my mind. But then they don't get to prance around and say how they won against (insert bogeyman here)

[Jim Sagle]

23. You forgot about the chocolate rations - they're being decreased.

[Just Me]

24. Redistribution of wealth from those who work hardest to those who,...

,...were most advantaged. THIS IS NOW AMERICA!!! ;(

Are ya' startin' to get it, yet? You've been sold a buncha' lemons by greedy, heartless con-artists.

[leftofthedial]

27. personally, I blame the unions and the Democrats

and the homosexual agenda

and abortion rights

and the anti-gun lobby

and the commie lefties who don't go the right kind of church

and the anti-death penalty wienies

and the liburl media

for the struggles of the Murkan worker

(seriously, when will workers wake up and stop voting for their enemies?)