Third mountain lion killed

[The Straight Story]

Third mountain lion killed
By RICHARD HINTON
Bismarck Tribune

A Williston man who was hunting mountain lions killed the third cougar of North Dakota's experimental season.

The lion is an adult male that weighed 140 pounds, said Dorothy Fecske, furbearer biologist for the North Dakota Game and Fish Department. The skinned and frozen carcass was delivered to Bismarck on Monday afternoon, and Fecske said she will do a necropsy today after it thaws out.

Andy Anderson was hunting with dogs Saturday morning west of Grassy Butte when they came across cougar tracks in the snow, put the dogs on the trail and followed on foot.

"It went in a hole, and I had to crawl in the hole and shoot it. I had a flashlight, and I saw the snarl of its face," Anderson, the owner of Scenic Sports in Williston, said by telephone Tuesday.

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/articles/2006/01/04/news/local/108000.txt

That'll teach them lions a lesson....sigh...

[RebelOne]

1. It won't be long before the only place you will

see mountain lions is in the zoos.

[Ladyhawk]

12. Actually they are quite abundant in many places, but that doesn't

mean I want to see them hunted for no good reason. My father used to kill mountain lions that had killed livestock. He and his "hunting" buddies also shot game out of season and one, a fundy preacher, killed a mountain lion without a permit and just left it to rot where it fell. The fundy preacher's brother, Rico Oller, was heavily involved in politics here in California, "serving" as a Republican assemblyman and senator on the state level until Humane USA ran an ad about Rico's disregard for animals that cleaned his political clock: Click HERE and listen to the ad. I was tickled pink when I heard it. :D :D :D :D I hope Rico gives up politics for verily, he is an asshole and doth muchly suck.

Somewhere around here I have a picture of Rico Oller posing with a dead mountain lion. Oooo, da big bwave hunter! (Insert Elmer Fudd laugh here.) Before I decided my father, brother and their "hunting" buddies weren't the sort of people I wanted to hang around with, I occasionally went hunting with them and saw some pretty sick shit. I was standing next to Rico Oller when he snapped this picture:



Rico climbed up the tree a ways. The cat started coming down the tree, snarling. I stood there with my heart in my throat for a second, then the cat's nerve broke and it jumped. The dogs took off after it again. Luckily, the big, bwave hunters didn't shoot this particular cat. I know of only one instance when they poached a mountain lion, but they killed other animals out-of-season all the time. Bunch of heartless bastards.

Here's my hand next to a mountain lion track in the snow:

[progressoid]

2. Interesting concept, kill five to see if there is a resident population

"The experimental season calls for up to five cats to be harvested. The season is intended to gather information about mountain lions in the state, including whether there is a resident population. It opened Sept. 2 and will close March 12, or earlier, if the quota is reached."
:eyes:

[theHandpuppet]

5. We had to destroy the village in order to save it

There's some kind of logic in there somewhere... a kind of Twilight Zone logic.

[Botany]

3. I am a deer hunter but that is just sick.

"It went in a hole, and I had to crawl in the hole and shoot it. I had a flashlight, and I saw the snarl of its face," Anderson, the owner of Scenic Sports in Williston, said by telephone Tuesday

?s Total # of lion human attacks in N. Dakota
What is the ungulate population in N. Dakota
What do you do with a dead lion anyway

[theHandpuppet]

10. Some "hunters" just like to furkin' kill things

Like the hunters who killed two large, beautiful deer, cut off the racks with a saw, then threw the whole carcasses onto my mother's property to rot. (Mom, who lives in the country, loves her wild deer, turkeys and ducks. NO hunting allowed.) No doubt the big brave hunters have the racks hanging proudly on their family room walls. Or the young neighbor boy who, having received a brand spanking new shotgun as a Christmas present several years ago, proceeded to test his new toy by blowing away a beautiful Great Horned Owl who was nesting in the forest on Mom's place. I don't know if he killed the mate as well, but it disappeared soon after. I suspect he's also the kid who shot our magnificent pileated woodpecker.

Look, I have nothing against hunters who do so to put meat on the family table, but there are way too many irresponsible gun toters out there who just love to kill things and call themselves hunters and sportsmen. I'm sick of it.

[Botany]

13. the man who chased a lion into a hole and shot it .......

.... along with the people who killed the owl & deer are not hunters. Please don't call them that.

They are just sick shits with guns. Besides why hunt bucks? Nasty meat. Give me tender doe any day.

[RebelOne]

14. How is it any sicker than blowing away a deer?

[Botany]

17. you might want to think before you post.

this population spike can change the dynamics of the forest so you don't get the spring wildflowers, shrubs, wood thrushes,
ruffed grouse, and many other species that make up the bio-dynamics of an ecosystem. Lime disease, winter starvation,
and deer vehicle collisions also cause problems and suffering for people and deer too.

[RebelOne]

25. I am thinking. The human encroachment into the wildlife

habitat is one of the reasons for deer/vehicle accidents. The deer have nowhere to go. And don't give me that shit about winter starvation. The state DNRs and wildlife organizations put out food plots to feed the deer during the winter. And hunters do not kill the thin, starved deer. They look for the fat, well-fed animals. Maybe you will be lucky and kill one with CWD.

[LARED]

4. This guy is loopy

"It went in a hole, and I had to crawl in the hole and shoot it. I had a flashlight, and I saw the snarl of its face,"

The guy went into the hole to face a mountain lion!!!!

The guy is either brain dead or has nerves of steel.

[Jon8503]

6. Those people are nuts. Really brave and manly this makes them. N/T

[RebelOne]

31. Not loopy, just a dumb ass.

[oregonindy]

7. it'd be nice if it were legal to defend these animals the same way they

are hunted.

why kill a lion? really why? cant eat it. I'm totally okay with hunting for food.
But Frickin sport???? the bastards. Grab those ijits at night and throw them in the woods and let other hunters hunt them. hmmmm now theres an idea. Cut down on the "sport" hunter population and still allow the survivors to enjoy their "sport"

[tatertop]

11. certainly not the worst idea i have heard today

Camera trapping is the correct way to
estimate wild cat populations.

[The Stranger]

16. A stimulating proposal.

[Ian David]

8. This only distracts from the war against our REAL enemy- bears

They are soulless eating machines and they want our honey.

And our picnic baskets.

Bears must be stopped before we can not safely go outside without one of these protective suits:

[Cleita]

9. Dept of Game and Wildlife have killed two of them here

in the last six months because they've gotten too close to the tourist enclaves on the beach. I really hate it. Developers, both construction and agricultural keep encroaching on the wilderness that they live in.

[AngryAmish]

15. My gf's brother has gone out twice in ND looking for mountain lion

No luck so far.

[newyawker99]

18. ...

:argh: :grr: :-(

[flvegan]

19. It's not hunting. It's shooting and killing.

The only "hunters" in the story are the dogs that found and tracked the animal. If Andy Anderson wants to be a man, tell him to enlist.

[RebelOne]

32. Yay!!! I agree. Plenty of targets to shoot at in Iraq.

But those targets are equally armed and can shoot back.

[frogmarch]

20. In Hot Springs, South Dakota

mountain lions live right at the edge of town in a range of hills known as the Seven Sisters. When I lived in South Dakota in the 90s, the big cats roamed freely throughout the state, protected by law. They were sometimes spotted in the town of Hot Springs, where they picked off people's pets right and left, but many citizens considered mountain lions roaming through town a myth. Luckily, no people were attacked.

The police department and the chamber of commerce publically pooh-poohed reports of sightings in town because they didn't want to frighten off tourists. They police department formed possees to shoo the cats back home, and used code words on their radios so that no one would know what they were doing. Apparently they didn't give a shit if someone's child, or even an adult, was someday killed by one, so they didn't think it was necessary that the citizens be made aware of the cats' presence.

The "Let's not scare away the tourists!" mentality of law enforcement, the local chamber of commerce, and even the GFP, always reminded me of the movie Jaws. Finally, someone called the Rapid City TV stations and blew the whistle on those in authority who lied to keep the cats' presence a secret. Because of heavy news coverage, it was established once and for all that mountain lions at large in Hot Springs wasn't a myth. Tourism wasn't affected.

Now there's a season on mountain lions in South Dakota, and the last I heard, in the off-season, people are allowed to shoot them if attacked, and not face heavy fines and jail sentences. Having nearly been the prey of the big cats on several occasions, I say GOOD. As a vegan, I'm against killing animals, but I make an exception when it comes to mountain lions. I've no love for those shrieking, blood-thirsty assholes. That's not to say I'm bent on ridding the world of them, but the fewer there are of them, the better I'll like it.

[LeftyMom]

21. Bloodthirsty?

They're opportunistic predators, but the idea that animals can be "assholes" for doing what comes naturally to them in a changing enviornment is a strange one at best and at worst seems really hypocritical coming from a fellow vegan. After all, other people find the death of seals, cows, mink, or (insert animal here) in some way convenient or advantageous. How can we speak up against those injustices and then approve of those who hunt a native preadator and key part of a healthy ecosystem?

[frogmarch]

24. Yes, it is hypocritical of me

as a self-proclaimed animal lover, and I'm not proud of feeling the way I do about them. As for calling them assholes, I suppose if seals or cows stalked, cornered, and tried to make a meal of me, I'd call them assholes too.

By the way, mountain lions are bloodthirsty. As you yourself pointed out, they are, after all, predators. Ever see dogs after having been disemboweled and ripped to shreds by mountain lions? Or a mare and her foal gutted by a mountain lion while she was prematurely aborting it out of fright as the cat approached her? I have. It's hard to see something like that and take it in stride just because I know mountain lions are opportunist predators and a key part of a healthy ecosystem.

Your post was eloquent. Mine wasn't. I accept that.

[LeftyMom]

26. You're still making a human value judgment.

A mountain lion is no more bloodthirsty than a trap door spider or an or ca. It's merely a predator filling it's ecological niche. Eating deer is what they do, and when they don't so it then we have to deal with rednecks who want to shoot the deer because they're overpopulated.

Sure, they'll attack dogs, cats and on very rare occasions human children, that's why as human adults we're responsible for supervising or securing the companion animals and kids in our care. After all, our animal friends and our kids are in much greater danger from cars, crazy humans or just getting lost and keeping them in when we can't watch them protects them from those dangers too. Mountain lions should not be blamed for human irresponsibility or for following their own nature.

We have mountain lions in my area too and even though they are a protected by California law, we don't have the sort of problems you describe at all, because there's an emphasis on living with the mountain lion population and being educated about what to do in the unlikely possibility one encounters one. Since mountain lions are shy around humans and scared off pretty easily, this approach works well.

[frogmarch]

33. I understand that

and agree in principle with your naturalist view of nature. I think the difference in our perspectives regarding mountain lions may come from your never having been close to becoming a big cat's meal. At least I assume you were not.

Yes, I'm making a human value judgment. I think it's natural for us humans to attach human value judgments to certain occurrences, particularly those that have threatened, or might threaten, to turn us into entrees. I know that as animals and a part of nature, we humans aren't "too good" to be prey, but I take the thought of my death very personally.

You are probably able to walk out your door without wearing an oversized parka (night or day, even in the summer) while carrying a lighted tiki torch and playing a book on tape narrated by a deep-voiced man at full blast to try to keep the mountain lions at bay. You probably have never been afraid a mountain lion would snatch your beloved pets or your children, or your guests, despite your best efforts to protect them. And your mountain lions are shy. Not mine.

So...you can lecture me all you want. I'll understand where you're coming from, and in a purely objective sense, I'll no doubt sincerely agree with much of what you say. But I won't ever hold mountain lions in high regard, and will continue to wish there were fewer.

[0rganism]

22. betcha the mountain lions were there before the town was

The whole argument about wildlife "intruding" on human dwellings is bogus. We generally choose to live where we like. Most animals don't have that level of decision making available to them, let alone the range of options for at-will relocation. Someone homesteads a piece of land, a few more people move in, pretty soon its a township, growing exponentially in size every year. Eventually you have maybe thousands of people on tens of thousands of acres that used to be wilderness habitat, and some of the animals that the top predators used to feed on are either considered pests and outright exterminated, or used for "game" by humans and hunted to their limits. So then the predators start coming into the town, eating pets and raiding dumpsters, and sometimes even attacking humans.

Gee, what a surprise. They're adapting to changing conditions, just like they've been adapting for millions of years. If they couldn't do this, they'd have gone the way of the dinosaurs a long time ago.

But of course humans, smart as we think we are, can't seem to figure this much out, so we anthropomorphize them as villains, as murderers, as "shrieking blood-thirsty assholes", and so on. We hunt them down, kill them on sight, exterminate them ruthlessly, and then 10 years later, we get to have population "culls" on former prey to keep their populations in check, because we fucked up the regional web of life.

Killing an occasional predator in self defense is no harm done, and should be the normal way of dealing with them -- it's how we evolved over millions of years. Wiping out the local population of predators as a matter of course is downright stupid, and only perpetuates the large-scale stupidity that we've been practicing for the last 10,000.

[frogmarch]

28. Yes, I agree

that the mountain lions were likely living where the town is now long before people arrived,, and that people are the intruders, not the cats. In fact, I agree with the entirety of your post. It's always been what the objective, logical part of me believes - the part of me that understands the ways of Nature and doesn't stand in judgment of it, But the other part of me - the subjective part that's watched mountain lions doing what comes naturally - the same part that remembers how it felt to be almost prey myself, is appalled by them. Like most human beings, I have emotions, and whether or not calling mountain lions shrieking assholes is anthropomorphizing, because of my experiences with them I feel justified in calling them shrieking assholes if I want to. It doesn't hurt them a bit and makes vulnerable, little, tasty me feel better.

[0rganism]

30. You wouldn't be the first to villainize the predators

Like I said, the last 10000 years of human civilization are fraught with the notion of top predators as evil bloodthirsty Satan Spawn. And you, yourself, thinking that is probably not going to make any difference to them at all. Unfortunately, when we have ALL the humans (or at least a well-armed plurality) thinking that way, it DOES hurt them, and it will hurt them all the way to local extinction given enough time and resources.

Remember, humans just aren't that tasty -- we have very few natural predators, we're stringy, stinky, and full of lousy-tasting artificial preservatives, hardly a gourmet treat. So make yourself a little less vulnerable and you might have a different outlook on the bloodthirsty assholes. There are probably lots of locals who can tell you how, if you need help with it. Generally, don't go strolling alone where they like to hunt, bring a big walking stick with bells and a sharpened metal tip on hikes, and don't run away when (if) you see them (it's the same as declaring yourself to be prey). Stand your ground and snarl and wave that stick right at the asshole, and it will leave.

[flvegan]

27. Maybe people should stop encroaching on their territory, or at least

stop destroying the ecosystm supports them. I'm sure that, were there enough prey for them, they'd not bother coming into town.

On top of that, "they didn't give a shit if someone's child...was someday killed by one" is a conclusion you've drawn, in bias, right? Not exactly a fact, though.

I will agree with you in that, if attacked, in my environment (not out hiking or biking in theirs), I should be able to defend myself, as I would against a person (or dog, or ?).

My last 2 questions are in regard to the encounters. People's pets getting picked off. Are they coming into yards, or are these unattended pets allowed to roam? Lastly, sorry to hear that you were almost a victim, but I'm curious as to the circumstances (the where, how and why).

Personally, I've been bitten by a couple dogs, but I don't want them vanquished from the earth. I've also watched people kill each other and defile this planet each and every day. I don't want any of them dead, though. We have lots of gators here in Florida. They take pets every week. Attacks on people are rare. I don't want them eliminated, either.

I'm certain there's an alternative to the "shoot and kill" method.

Thanks for the vegan diet, though. We'll just have to disagree on this point, here.

[Fla Dem]

23. Shooting a lion in a hole ? Is that like shooting fish in a barrel?

Doesn't sound like sport to me.

[leftchick]

29. I am sure he has a tiny appendage between his legs

Microscopic in fact. fucking asshole.

[sleipnir]

34. Can we put this Anderson guy in a hole and shoot him? It's only fair.

What a fucking prick. He deserves to get shot in a hole. This hunt is a bad as the British Fox Hunts.

I don't mind hunting at all, but this seems beyond the pale.

Hunt the fucking animal in the wild and with a bow and then I'll give him respect.

Anyone who is willing to hunt a mountain lion with only a bow and no firearms is a true hunter. This Anderson guy comes off as a complete wanker.

[abramoffisajackass]

35. Great

Hunting mountain lions keeps them wild.

California banned mountain lion hunting and the lions increased to the point they killed off all the California bighorn sheep

[ThomWV]

36. I Ate One Once

Well, part of one anyway.

Not to get far into an interesting story but a friend of mine shot one a few years ago (in Idaho where he lives) while I was visiting and we had it for dinner that night - the backstrap that is.

Very much like pork loin, very good, a litte dry.