60's: Who connected people and how can we do it? We have

[babylonsister]

many more tools, but perhaps no will?
Let's chat: how can we spread the message so it sticks? And we NEED to involve musicians!

[rucky]

1. I think the problem is that we have too many tools

and not enough single-channel communication. The www is so fragmented, there's noplace everybody's at face-to-face that isn't corportized or churchified. Vietnam antiwar movement started on college campuses - that was the meeting place to organize. Civil Rights action was organized through black churches. People aren't going to do it from their living rooms. They just arent.

the other thing that's lacking is symbolic interaction. Vietnam protestors burned draft cards, and that pretty much said it all.

Yes, there's the music. there's some great protest music around nowadays, but no call to action to go with it.

[Warchild]

7. my thought....

In this modern age of internet, we get our game on expressing dissent via the web. That keeps us isolated physically from others. Back in the day groups formed on campuses, in the streets and parks and at events people would jam right up tight close to each other link arms, chant and sing songs and raise a ruckus- SIT IN!! MARCH!!! STRIKE!!!!.


I can't believe that the kids in college these days aren't leaders in the antiwar effort-maybe plenty of'em are against the war, yeah, but they arent getting together physically in groupsa and that's what it takes to spread the word. The web keeps us a part and that is just what the evil bastards who are running this war and this country want. They're perfectly happy to have the streets and campuses across the country quiet and have people posting in all the corners of the web.

DIRECT ACTION GETS SATISFACTION!!!!

[babylonsister]

9. The draft was instituted in the 60s, that's why young people were

concerned then, and not so much (yet) now.

[Warchild]

12. yes, there was the draft..

but the immorality of the war was a big thing too. The draft wasn't the only reason people took to the streets. Believe it or not, young folks back then wern't as concerned for their safety-plenty were willing to get their heads bashed in and thrown in jail protesting a brutal techno war against the people of S.E. Asia.

[rucky]

11. Our lack of community is holding us back.

as movement and as a nation as a whole. We're so fractured, and it seems like it's willful. I-Pod people shopping at bigbox stores to fill some spiritual void. Lookie...shiney! Howard Dean meetups almost worked...maybe they will again if another charasmatic leader pops up, but we can't afford to wait for that.

what we need is to pressure STARBUCKS to get political. they're the only ones filling the community void en-masse, and they can spread a call to action better than anyone.

[Warchild]

20. Starbucks? Scew the fat cat corporations

they ain't gonna do anything to threaten their high holy bottome line.


Organize locally-stage rallys with speakers and bands. Make it a socio-politcal event.
If a thousand people in a midsized American town all got on the net in one evening and posted dissent to 100 different websites no one is gonna hear a thing. Put a 1000 people in a park, an auditorium or a campus and turn'em out on a peace march people will hear it, see it, feel it.
If the cops come and tell ya to break it up and move along ya SIT DOWN!!
and make'em move ya. Sometimes people get hurt. Sometimes people get tear gassed, and sometimes people go to jail. Is it worth it? Some people think it is to stop war. Some folks will throw their bodies into the machine if that's what it takes to spread the message.
DIRECT ACTION GETS THE GOODS-ORGANIZE AND DEMONSTRATE

[rucky]

23. I was talking about organizing. (and outta my ass)

General Strike is definately the goal. I don't care how we get there.

[Warchild]

28. ya gotta start somewhere....

Even in the bad old 1960s the first demonstrations, sit-ins and marches were small, hardly noticed affairs-it was the newness of it that got attention in the media-then it just started snowballing around the country as people gathered in various venues and events. Be seen and be heard. There's a time to put down the keyboard in the cozy home and pick up the banners and signs and get out in streets.
A good place to start? On campuses or towns the military recruitment offices are prime sites. So are federal courthouses and other buildings.
These wars arent anything but the greedy stinking rich fat boy industrialists enticing the poor kids to suit up and show up for a war that only makes the rich richer and the poor poorer and deader.
Tell Haliburton, Big Oil and the other masters of war that have our current administration in their pocket to shove it right up their capitalist ass.

[upi402]

17. Excellent points

TV News rating tanked after CNN and its imitaters.
We may need a nationwide tour of some sort, a happening that may combine political speakers, stars and centers around live music.

Maybe free, and on private property so there will be no limits on free expression.

[rucky]

19. Now you're talking!

and it has to be a tour, not a one-spot Woodstock type event.

[upi402]

24. true. folks are busy - have kids and need jobs badly...

maybe a kid friendly Friday followed by the students on Saturday.

[az chela]

2. YOU are absolutely right

The 60's were full of people who believed in the american dream and their freedom.Seems like now people talk about it but do nothing to bring about change.Where have all the hero's gone???Where is the passion we had back then???

[babylonsister]

3. Richard Dreyfuss started this for me today; he's an

'old' guy but spoke the truth, and even mentioned the "I" word.
Where are our politicians, our actors, our musicians, our Americans"?
Dammit, it's about time to get angry!

[upi402]

18. i'm there with ya

but then again, i've been pissed about the corporatocracy for 2 decades now.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

22. O.k. lets get over the "Old guy" shit!

Us old guy's " have been fighting this fight since the 60's. Some of us are still fighting it now. Give us some respect, or fight this war all over again.

Damn, it pisses me off when I have spent a lifetime fighting for peace, justice and the American way, just to have some twinkie call me an old (irrelevent) guy who has no clue.

All I can say is that you have "no concept" of who you are talking to. I am willing to die for what I believe in, are you?

[babylonsister]

31. Mea culpa, tmfun! How old are you? I consider

Dreyfuss in his 60s older than me. I just turned 50. My dad's pushing 80. So,
I'm sorry if I offended.

[CoffeeCat]

4. I think the music connected people...

...and wasn't Woodstock a big part of sparking the anti-war protests?

It feels like protesters need a common visual. They need to look at others who feel the same, and say, "I want to do what they are doing!"...then this sparks additional protests and speaking out.

This is probably why BushCo has expended so much energy on squelching dissent, and ALSO making it invisible. Most protests are not covered by the MSM, and if they are--the attendance is minimized and pictures rarely show the enormity of the few successful demonstrations that have happened.

This country is ripe for a revolution. The problem is...many people seem insecure. Or afraid. Possibly, everyone feels that they have too much at stake--massive credit card debt, unsure job market, unstable economy---and they don't feel as free and loose about protesting and speaking out as they did in the 60's.

The country seems shell shocked to me. That's why we need a massive, Woodstock-like protest that will scream, "You are not alone! If you feel that something is wrong in this country...you are not crazy or unpatriotic--and here are a million others who feel exactly as you do!" Something like that could change the direction of the country.

People are going to great lengths to assure that this doesn't happen.

[TacticalPeek]

5. Recruiting sergeants.

:evilgrin:

[dweller]

8. when what we need

is more grunts.

:P

dp

[mrcheerful]

6. I think america is in a transition period, sort of like the 50's and

early 60's were. Remember america was in fear mode from 1948 or 49, after the USSR got the bomb. We are in the McCarthy era type thinking, fear, terrorists, death, destruction, fight them over there so we don't fight them here. We been through this before, seems thats been the pukes way, then after people wake up and see that its all BS they change it. Remember in the 50's and 60's McCarthy was considered keeping americans safe and most americans thought Vietnam was a good thing. All the pukes have done is change the buzz word from commies to terrorists and the sheeple fell right into step. I think in the next few years the pukes depending on fear and hate will back fire, maybe sooner as people are starting to wake up. BTW, the religious rights tactics are not new either, remember Elvis and the evil of rock an roll? We are just in that transition period when america slowly wakes up and realizes that its BS they smell not coffee.

edited for a mis speel lol.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Part of the problem is the media.

People are seriously asleep at the wheel.

[dysfunctional press]

13. "part" of the problem...?

it is THE problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

16. What can I say..

I have a gift for understatement.

[babylonsister]

25. Yes, you do! But it's all good; at least we're 'talking?' nt

[Dogmudgeon]

14. Music? I doubt it.

There are a lot of reactionary rock-n-rollers. There always have been, even in the '60s. Music was the most memorable part of the 60s, mainly because it was easier to package and make a buck off of, and they keep selling and selling the music -- and finding more and more ways to extract money for it. But the idea that music was the magic ingredient behind the 1960s is a little off-kilter. And we're in the throes of a music revolution right now, only since it doesn't look much like the 1960's music revolution, most people are missing it.

The political unrest was related the increased idealism early on, and the threat of the Vietnam War later on. Once the war was winding down, the radicalism just died out. Watergate hit shortly thereafter, and cynicism became the flavor of the week. People deserted politics, and the Radical Right walked right in, sat right down ...

LSD and marjuana had more of an effect, but in an ironic way. It showed people that they could use their minds, and it could be a lot of fun. This idea spread throughout society, and it became known that no drug of any kind was required for a person to be "turned on". Timothy Leary himself had written about it, and he was an early promoter of personal computers, as well. Frank Zappa was a big promoter of the use-your-mind idea, but he avoided all drugs except for tobacco. The emphasis wasn't on the drug, or the technology, but the human mind and the pleasure it could give. People who had been big acid-trippers soon discovered art, philosophy, psychology, the sciences, and computers, often in that order.

The easy sex of the era is also over-sold, either as a good thing, or as the cause of all bad vibes. People had been having easy sex for some time by the time before the Summer Of Love came around. Letting down one's emotional and mental defenses was the lasting lesson. Most of the stories are about how some poor little sweet pigtailed blond girl from Iowa took a bus to San Fran in April of 1967, started hanging out with a band, took some drugs and got tumbled by the lead singer, and wound up pregnant and broken-hearted back home in September, only to find solace in the church she spurned for drugs. The reality tended to be that she went on the pill, never got pregnant, dumped the lead singer when she realized he was using her as a piece of easy ass, and joined the local feminist group where she didn't burn her bra but did work for peace and justice. After a period of dating around (with and without sex), her next serious boyfriend was a stand-up guy who appreciated her, and they ended up getting married in 1973. That's how it worked for my cousin, anyway. She and her husband are still together, put two kids through college, and have remained faithful to a lot of their youthful idealism, even if the kitch and trappings are gone.

A lot of people of all ages would like the coming era of activism to be a replay of the 1960s. No matter how much we'd like it, it won't even be close. It will also come during the first era of serious environmental and economic problems, rather than "green grass and high tides forever". It won't be a hedonistic (pleasure-seeking) era as much as a hedonic (pleasure-appreciating) era. There will be peace and love and groovy vibes, but there will be a lot of other progressive virtues in flower as well. We've learned a lot in 40 years, and ought to not throw it away.

So I hope no one gives you an Answer -- I sincerely hope you invent your own and give it a try. We've got the tools, we've got the need, we've got the will; all we lack is the catalyst. Perhaps you can find, create, or BE that catalyst.

--p!

[babylonsister]

29. Music doesn't have to equate to drugs. I hear songs today

that I adore, from Paul Simon, Joni Mitchell, CSN&Y, etc.

"So I hope no one gives you an Answer -- I sincerely hope you invent your own and give it a try. We've got the tools, we've got the need, we've got the will; all we lack is the catalyst. Perhaps you can find, create, or BE that catalyst."

I wish I had/have their talent. They aren't dead. Perhaps they could help with the current major fuck-up that this country is?

[dweller]

30. footnote ...

A catalyst is a substance which alters the rate of a chemical reaction but is chemically unchanged at the end of the
reaction.

"..... but is chemically unchanged at the end of the reaction." This means that there is just as much catalyst at the end of a
reaction as there was at the beginning. The catalyst is used over and over again. Because catalysts work so rapidly and are used
again and again, it is only necessary to have very small quantities of catalyst present to make a chemical reaction go faster.


not an answer, but hum along all the same. Then take a chance, and sing outloud.
dp

[stlsaxman]

36. Pidge, you are spot-on! Incredible insights laced with hope.

The music, the drugs, the hedonism... only roadsigns to the greater/further use of the mind. Even George Clinton, at the height of Parliament/Funkadelic fame, took this message to the masses- "Free Your Mind And Your Ass Will Follow", "Rise, Maggotbrain!" and "THINK- It Ain't Illegal Yet"... But even that became "nothin' but a party, y'all"... alas...

And the "Musical Revolution" became the Music Industry. As Lester Bangs put it- "...and then it becomes an "Industry Of Cool..."

Yes, as Music needs a player- it is NOTHING w/o a listener. Fripp says it best- "The listener is Mother to the music". People listened in the '60's... I believe they still listen. Only what they're being force-fed by industry is not "Music". Call me a snob (and correctly so!) but I love music too much to not be dis-heartened, even angry, about the state of music these days...

Yet, reading posts like yours gives me a great deal of hope. Thanks!

[KT2000]

15. The Draft

this was one of the most unifying aspects. This affected everyone. The rich still had to jump through some hoops to stay out. The sons of the middle class had to go or try something to get out, and of course the poor had to go too.

The civil rights movement took off after the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Rosa Parks volunteered for a civil rights organization. There were several other organizations in place. When she refused to move, the word moved through all the organizations and they were all ready to act - the bus boycott. It continued from there.

Right now there are so many issues. We need one or two issues around which everyone can organize before anything can be effective.

In the meantime, I hope musicians do pick up on some issues.

[Wheres The Beef]

26. kt nails a perfect landing

THE DRAFT.
Too much noise.
the 60's had a large population of young people with no distractions. 3 tv networks, am radio, LP's.
Today this group thinks that an e-mail campaign, or an online petition is activism. Cripes, I get 50 e-mails a day on how to make my wanger bigger! Does anyone think that the powers that be read their crap. Online petition? Can't even get off yer butt to take one around and get sigs. 80,000 members on DU and look at the focus. "Cheney was drunk, rate it up." Cindy Sheehan wouldn't have been a blip on the radar. MIHOP/LIHOP good luck.
And you are right about the musicians. They don't lead they follow. Its's all about the money to most of them. Remember Bobby Darrin? Went from Sinatra wannabe to protest singer because thats where the action was.
We said "Don't trust anyone over 30." Dem,GOP, no one. All authority was to be questioned. Now you're waiting for the next politician to be a savior. Flavor of the day.

The draft was in place well before the 60's Babalon.

[KT2000]

32. Welcome to DU!

I am hearing things like - "why aren't people in the streets" from people who I would not consider political. Something is simmering and it will boil over at some point, though there have been enough events one might consider a catalyst.
:shrug:

[babylonsister]

27. Musicians need to make a stink; spying would be a really big

issue. I'm appalled that nothing has been happening.

[Warchild]

33. organize educate AGITATE FOR PEACE

[babylonsister]

34. If you mean it, get involved! nt

[Warchild]

35. Join Us

[Pryderi]

21. DFALink.com Dean's fostering the connections. Sign up online, meet local