Mel Gibsons theory of evolution.........

[splat@14]

This guy is a loon. He should be caged with Jean Schmidt,IMO.
Splat!


Mel Gibson on evolution, women, and political conspiracy theory

This is from a Mel Gibson interview with Playboy magazine in the July 1995 issue. I haven't verified it myself, though I've found consistent excerpts (though they could all have an identical bogus source). The positions taken are quite plausibly attributed to Gibson, though I'm surprised at his foul mouth.

On evolution:

PLAYBOY: Do you believe in Darwin's theory of evolution or that God created man in his image?

GIBSON: The latter.

PLAYBOY: So you can't accept that we descended from monkeys and apes?

GIBSON: No, I think it's bullshit. If it isn't, why are they still around? How come apes aren't people yet? It's a nice theory, but I can't swallow it. There's a big credibility gap. The carbon dating thing that tells you how long something's been around, how accurate is that, really? I've got one of Darwin's books at home and some of that stuff is pretty damn funny. Some of his stuff is true, like that the giraffe has a long neck so it can reach the leaves. But I just don't think you can swallow the whole piece.

Why does anyone think his first point is a good argument against evolution? I've never heard anyone argue that Italian-Americans couldn't have come from Italy because there are still Italians there.

And I wonder what book by Darwin he has.

More at the link:
http://lippard.blogspot.com/2005/12/mel-gibson-on-evolution-women-and.html

[trotsky]

1. Not only that, it's a totally stupid question.

We didn't evolve from "monkeys and apes" - they and we evolved from a common ancestor.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

41. exactly

In this we see an interviewer, who attempts to sell the old propaganda notion put forth in the Scopes Monkey Trial. Darwin never suggested we evolved from monkeys. Darwin also never refutes that humanity is created in God's image. All Darwin did was logically describe how God actually created ALL species. We should take a lesson from Divinity and realize it's not only about a single species called Homo Sapien on this planet and start protecting everything God created. I'm a Christian and I say we don't have to accept every Hebrew legend the Council of Nicea saw fit to present as God's word in 325 CE. God gave us a brain; let's use that Divine Gift.

[SharonAnn]

43. And, it's not an "either/or" question. It could be both.

[Cha]

64. Yeah, what's up with that interviewer?

So mel gibson believes in id? Someone forgot to tell the intelligent designer that bush wasn't monkey boy.

[FreedomAngel82]

74. And another thing

why do you only have to believe in one or the other? I as a Christian believe in God but if something is right in front of my face that I know is true, such as evolution, I believe that too. Why so many of them are afraid of science beats me. I guess their faith really is that low.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

75. what puzzles me...

Christ never teaches us to fear... He said "FEAR NOT" several times... Fear belongs to the opposition, which is an insidious evil force. His ministry focuses on the Kingdom of God in our hearts. I believe that is what we must seek, not some dark dynasty of fear.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

2. Okay, maybe he is a little screwy

but Braveheart was awesome.

[splat@14]

5. Yea, it was a pretty good flick.

[enlightenment]

45. If you don't mind one historical inaccuracy after another.

It's great that the film reinvigorated Scots' interest in their history, but it's discouraging that so many Americans swallowed that tale hook, line, and sinker.

[rosesaylavee]

7. I can't watch him in anything now... even Braveheart

the illusion that he is someone other than Mel Gibson, fundie supreme is broken.

[SaveElmer]

3. It was a stupid question as well...

We are not descended from Monkeys and Apes...monkeys , Apes and Humans descend from the same ancestor!!!

[XanaDUer]

4. Wow. What a stupid fuck.

I have *always* disliked his movies, and was dragged along by whatever BF I had at the time to see shit like, "Lethal Weapon" and that movie where he gets his guts pulled out at the end...he plays William Wallace...

PS-the best thing about one of those Road Warrior movies was Tina Turner. She looked like she could kick his ass...

[TallahasseeGrannie]

8. I never saw the Lethal Weapon flicks..

somehow avoided them.

But I really liked Braveheart. But I have a lot of Scot ancestors so I was very interested in the history.

I did think Gibson looked great in a skirt with a blue face, however.

[XanaDUer]

11. Yeah, the celtic history part was interesting

but I still hated it. Maybe with say, Ewan MacGregor in it I would have enjoyed it more. Gibson seemed like an egomaniac in the film...I compare his performance to someone like Liam Neesom in "Rob Roy". Neesom is a truly wonderful actor. Gibson is just a jerk. Of course, after reading Gibson's alleged remarks on Life, women, evolution, etc., I might enjoy seeing him tortured to death.

The last money I spent on a film with/by this asshole was , "Signs."

Christ. That was the last straw for me.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

12. I agree that Neesom is more subtle

and I wonder if I saw Braveheart for the first time this week if I would feel as positive about it.

I have no concept of his politics at the time.

I did not like the violence in Braveheart, but it didn't seem gratuitous.

And yes, he was very much the "star" in it, wasn't he?

I'm surprised he didn't play Christ in The Passion.

[XanaDUer]

16. I said the same thing to my BF

(why didn't Gibson play Christ). Guess one reason is that he is too old and wrinkly now...still he played Hamlet.

Neesom is also much sexier and attractive. He is an uber-fox, imho.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

48. I loved him in Nell

very masculine

[XanaDUer]

52. He's a god.

...

[ohio_liberal]

20. Unfortunately that movie is not historically accurate

There are loads of websites pointing out the inaccuracies. All in all, it was decent entertainment though.

[Benhurst]

32. Yes, Braveheart was an entertaining movie, but bad history.

See: www.medievalscotland.org/scotbiblio/braveheart.shtml

[rudeboy666]

6. Stupid question that deseves a stupid answer. n/t

[Toots]

9. "That Carbon dating thing, how accurate is that?"

Well since it is based upon Atomic Theory we know automatically that it is suspect because it is only a theory. I ain't never seen no atom...:sarcasm:

[in_cog_ni_to]

10. But there's not a "credibility gap" in ID? Damn fool.

I will NEVER pay to see one of his films...ever. I'm still pissed at myself for spending my hard earned money on ANY of his films prior to him revealing his RW religious wacko nut job tendencies.. :spank: I find it interesting that he held his wacko views to himself until AFTER he became a multi-millionaire. Had he revealed himself earlier, he would probably be a dishwasher in some Hollywood restaurant.:grr:

[XanaDUer]

15. Did you see, "Signs"?

The Village Voice nails it:

http://www.villagevoice.com/film/0232,winter,37215,20.html

[EstimatedProphet]

35. Of course there's no credibility gap in ID!

How can you have a credibility gap if there's no credibility to begin with?

[in_cog_ni_to]

44. heh....good point.

:thumbsup:

[jobycom]

13. Who cares, he's an actor, they aren't supposed to be sane.

Artists are supposed to look at the world through different eyes. I don't care when actors are screwy--they usually suck when they aren't.

Schmidt is supposed to be one of our nation's leaders--a sane, rational, intelligent being guided by pragmatism, reason and reality. Oh wait, I'm in the wrong country, aren't I?

[HereSince1628]

14. The guy looks best in blue face paint-do you think I care what his opinion

is on evolution?

Think he can explain off the top of his head the nature of radioactive decay????
I don't think so either.

Think he nows the relative positions of the great apes on a cladogram of the Primates???? I don't think so either.

[baldguy]

17. When one group of apes descended from the trees

to eventually evolve into humanity, there was another group that stayed behind. They evolved into conservatives.

[XanaDUer]

18. LOL!!!

May I use that? :rofl:

[HysteryDiagnosis]

19. How come apes aren't people yet? It's a nice theory,

but I can't swallow it.<<

Apes are too smart to become people, people who are stupid enough to destroy the only rock they have to live on for now.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0930_050930_gorilla_tool.html


A western gorilla uses a stick to test the water for depth in the Republic of Congo. The photographs are the first documentation of gorillas using tools in the wild.

Photograph © Thomas Breuer/Wildlife Conservation Society

In one instance, a female gorilla named Leah tried to wade across a pool of water but found herself waist deep after just a few steps. She retreated, grabbed a branch sticking out of the water, and used it to gauge the water's depth before wading deeper.


According to the researchers, Leah repeatedly tested the depth as she walked about 33 feet (10 meters) out into the pool, before returning to shore and her wailing infant.

In another instance, a female named Efi detached a stump from a bush and used it for support as she dug for herbs. She then made a bridge with the stump to help her cross a muddy patch of ground.

[northzax]

21. I have only one question for Mel...

if God created Man in his image, why do we all look different? No one has ever managed to explain racial differences to me, or why my sister and I, who come from the same 'makers' look completely different. If Adam and Eve (or Steve, of course) were created in the image of God, why don't we all look ldentical?

or did God make some interesting mistakes in creating us?

[BlueEyedSon]

24. Yeah, and whats with that pesky "appendix"???

[madeline_con]

79. And tonsils? n/t

[Jeffersons Ghost]

47. it's no mistake

Divinity offers a message by making everyone different. The crystal clear message is that God is willing to be perceived DIFFERENTLY by each person and culture. Divinity manifests to a Hindu in a different way that it does to me. That does not prove a Hindu is wrong and I am right and it certainly doesn't prove that people who practice that beautiful religion are going to be punished in the after-life. Divinity even supports secularism. I've enjoyed the company of many secularists that would actually make better Christians, with their strong sense of values and morality, than many of those who profess Christianity. Plato and subsequent Neo-Platonists make the best case for the existence of Divinity but I won't bore you with details.

Instead, let's jump ahead in time:

Humankind, made in the likeness of Divinity has always focused on creating life. This statement does not refer to the photocopy version of a cloned sheep, which simply represents replicating existing life but instead describes a life form that never existed previously, which meets most of the criteria ascribed to a true living organism. Like God, humans try creating life in their own image. A modern leading cosmologist, Stephen Hawking said, “I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.” Hawking retains a position once held by Sir Isaac Newton as the Lucasian Professor of Mathematics at Cambridge University. Like Newton and Einstein, Hawking is a cosmologist who believes in God. Cosmology seeks to unravel creation of the cosmos and it appears that once truly great minds (like Plato) begin to fathom the broad scope of universal creation, a supreme deity enters the picture. At a level where science (or philosophy) must deal with profound aspects of existence, there is little need to reconcile religious and scientific disciplines. Frankly, the most glaring need to reconcile disciplines exists within religion itself. In an ironic twist, science tends to end wars the hard way while religions, which generally center on concepts of peace, tolerance and forgiveness, continue to prevail as the single most common reason for all wars.

Humankind demonstrates amazing diversity in cultural and religious beliefs. Is it not conceivable that Divinity manifests to each of us in His and Her own way? Perhaps the religious fundamentalists are correct and the deity they worship is the one true God. Even if they are wrong, at least their deity blesses flags of wrath in battle, thus relieving them of any responsibility for actions. We have other choices. Now is the time to take a higher road and realize that if religion serves humanity, it serves the same true God and Goddess. Only then can we unshackle humanity from ignorance and fear, which chains us to pathetically foolish paths.

[northzax]

53. it's an interesting idea

but it is fallacious. Your vision of divinity makes something divine only in reference to human perception, when the creationist vision would tell you that the divine is divine, your perception is irrelevant. I guess it really boils down to the simple question: is God a human perception, or are humans a divine perception? seems a silly question, at first blush, but it really is the whole enchilada, upon further review.

another version of the question: does the divine exist because of us, or do we exist because of the divine?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

58. i hope this clears it up....

First of all, before judging me, please review this influence on my beliefs:

Adopting the Platonic philosophy that everything has a perfect form, Porphyry believed that animals, while possessing less rational natures than humans, still have souls. By observing a natural capability to assess situations, he demonstrates that a rationale, which he believes is synonymous with a soul, also exists in beasts. Because animals exhibit a degree of intellect, killing them except in self-defense is unjust. From the philosophy of Porphyry, which gives credence to reports that Pythagoras abstained from eating meat, Renaissance Neo-Platonists evolve a concept of justice for all creatures of Divine creation. A literal interpretation of the commandment “thou shall not kill” is in keeping with Neo-Platonic philosophies. Certainly, his criticism of historic reports by the Christian Fathers and Moses did not endear Porphyry to powerful Christian elements in Rome during his life. Like any religion, Christianity sanctions some views of history that appear irrational. To a rationalist, like Porphyry, incredible accounts are a personal affront. Describing his trinity around 301 CE, Porphyry presents Divinity with triple aspects of The One, The Intelligence and The Soul before the Council at Nicea outlined the Holy Trinity in 325 CE. I believe when Humanity no longer exists Divinity will continue to live on, Divinity does not need us, we need Divinity.

[northzax]

62. you got a citation for that?

or did you write it yourself?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

65. yes

This is a paragraph (slightly modified from original context) from a book I've been working on for years. I've re-written it countless times. Citations can be good and bad... A cop gave me one that wasn't so nice last month. Is getting this citation good?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

66. duhhhh

OIC what you mean by "citation." You can easily find several good translations online for Aids to the Study of the Intelligibles, which is a basic summary of early Neo-Platonism by Porphyry.

[Marr]

22. He can believe whatever he likes, but I've got to say that is one of the

stupidest arguments against evolution that I've heard. I really doubt he's read much on the subject.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

59. If you bothered to read the board...

before showing us all something about yourself by resorting to name-calling; You'd discover that I don't argue against evolution but instead against closed minds. Is you mind open or are you chained deep in a cave of shadows and illusions?

[Marr]

70. I'm sorry- are you Mel Gibson?

If not, I wasn't talking about you. Thanks.

[seabeyond]

23. he is far from being the only person saying this. we now have

over half the nation buying into this story. i am christian, love my faith, i also know that stories in this book are stories.

a couple things

2000 there began a push on this. in the past thruout christianity (other than the south, i didnt live here before) the religious leaders never tried to pass creationism as a reality. i grew up believing it was a story told, and i learned this from church. in 2000 only about 14% believed in creationism. over the years to 2004 i watched the number climb to 24%, 35%, 48%, and the last number i saw was 54% believed in literal interpretation of creationism. now this opposed the basis to how i grew up, so i really didnt have a clue people really believed this literally. i started asking friends and family that were in church and sure enough, person after person would pretend the earth really could be 6009 years old. educated people that went to college. people i have known all my life. i was in a shock

the last couple years the church has been promoting this that if you support this as a truth, then, you are being a "good christian". they have manipulated the masses with this. never would the ministers have tried this in the past

but then who would have thunk..... that we would allow our president to break the laws, and constitution, and pat him on the back for doing a good job in protecting us from the evil people. we are in a different world today

we werent there yesterday

i like gibson for a lot of reasons. and yes, he thinks differently from me. but i can still respect the man, because though he has been swept into the mass conditioning, everything i have seen in the man is a good man. a lost man, but a good man. i have a lot of people in my life right now, that are good people, just lost. they counted on religous authority to guide them, became sheep, because "that is what the bible says" and the authority has abused the power in lie, manipulation, abuse

[Jeffersons Ghost]

50. thank you

In expressing truly Christian tolerance, you teach, by example, as Jesus would. To me, Christianity is about following the teachings of Christ, nothing more or less.

[opihimoimoi]

25. Who is the guy??? some actor dude...when on acting...he rules

when on science...he drools

[Poppyseedman]

26. Who cares what actors think about any subject ?

The only question an actor needs to answer is: What makes you a good actor ?

For that matter, I feel the same about musicians, singers, TV stars, my next door neighbor or my dog.

[roseBudd]

56. Who cares what actors think is exactly what the GOP say when it's a

liberal actor. Gibson, Dennis Miller and Ron Silver get a pass

[leftofthedial]

27. how can a person that stupid get that rich?

[Poppyseedman]

28. Because he can act.

Some of the stupidest people on the planet are actors , musicians, TV stars

[leftofthedial]

30. athletes

politicians

[Poppyseedman]

37. Especially politicians

Of all different stripes

We actually elect these dummies

[leftofthedial]

60. in fairness, I've been a professional musician for a l-o-n-g time

and I'd rank the intelligence of most of my colleagues as well above average

self-destructive, perverse, deranged, wierd, pain-in-the-ass mofos for the most part, but not stupid.

--stereotyping alert!!!!--

Actors, though, are a different story, as are athletes. I've known some pretty smart athletes, but unfortunately the stereotype is all too true form most of them in my experience.

[Greyhound]

31. Just how many rich people do you know? Of all the really rich people I

know, the majority are dull-average at best. Most of them started with considerable financial support from family and friends in addition to the biggest advantage, access to those that can make it all happen for them. Money and connections, the amerkan way.

[leftofthedial]

61. my handful of rich friends includes

one very smart person--creative, imaginative, courageous. He made his money.

another with a decently high IQ, but so narcissistic and self-indulgent that she is essentially a child

the rest are like the bushturd--willfully ignorant, excellent and motivated at playing the games of the rich, but exceedingly dull people of average intelligence. Yet their money has bought them degrees from prestigious schools.

Inherited wealth creates an empowered class of idiot assholes. We're being screwed by them right now.

[Greyhound]

67. Sounds about the same as my experience, a very few that really are

intelligent, creative, and lucky (I've never met any self-made person that didn't have some extraordinary break). Most are pretty awful and wouldn't have any friends if they couldn't buy them, and a very few truly evil, vindictive assholes.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

29. Mel Gibson claims to be Catholic, but he's not.

I don't know of a single Catholic school that teaches the fake creationism bs. All teach evolution. Catholicism sees evolution and God as coexisting quite nicely together. Gibson is cute, but like Cruise (who is also cute), is a frikkin' mentally deranged whacko.

[CatholicEdHead]

84. True, it is Evolution is a byproduct of a type of ID

While ID could account for pre-Big Bang time, evolution is a God-created process.

Mel is taking the quasi-Catholic-fundie stance on this. The Vatican allows Evolution. Mel is siding with the Tom Monaghan/Thomas Moore Law Center nuts of Catholism.

[wtmusic]

33. To what lengths will a fundie not go

to defend whatever he/she was taught in early childhood, no matter how illogical?

[EstimatedProphet]

34. Good thing Mel's not a rocket scientist...

Actors don't have to be smart to be successful.

[Beelzebud]

36. I hear Stephen Hawking can't act for shit!

[Guckert]

38. There are plenty of books on greek gods, why does he not pray to Zeus.

Those must not be credible. Like the Bible with Virgin births, resurrections, water to wine, magic, stars following babies, etc.. :sarcasm:

[Jeffersons Ghost]

69. Any good medical doctor will agree...

"Virgin births" are not only possible but well documented.

[Vickers]

78. Huh?

Are you saying a chick who has never had sperm deposited in her (which was the only way 2,000 years ago) can get pregnant?

I need to see your math on that one...

[Guckert]

83. I think he forgot the sarcasm smilies?? I hope?

[Ready4Change]

39. Validity of Gibson+Evolution = Cruise+Psychiatry

Both are delusional nutballs who are allowing their religous faith to overshadow scientific facts in these areas.

Not that they are the first or only people to act that way.

[wadestock]

42. Great equation

And it's signs of our times in America.
People are becoming groundless, confused, and critically frustrated....because there really isn't an American dream anymore.

So stand in line buying cigarettes and lottery tickets...dream on about how you can be one of the winners in this new society of disparate riches.

It really is becoming a freak show.

[slackmaster]

40. He holds a common misperception about evolution

The belief that "evolution" means continuous advancement toward more complex forms. I hear it all the time from the "Intelligent Design" folks.

Of course those who understand it know it means only adaptation to the (often changing) environment over time. Organisms don't always evolve to become larger, stronger, faster, smarter, etc. Plants and animals can lose structures as well as gain them.

That is the result of deliberate creationist propaganda. If you challenge these people on whether or not they've actually read any of Darwin's books, they won't answer you.

[Ready4Change]

54. Or that the advancement of one form speaks doom for another.

Just because humans evolved doesn't mean other primates weren't still fit enough to survive. It's just to complex to consider the possibility that humans evolved themselves OUT OF being fit for life in a rainforest, but INTO fitness for life in the plains, while some other primates just continued evolving for a rainforest fit, and maybe had an easier time because we left.

Nope, the idea that different niches and vaste amounts of time easily explains the diversity of life we witness today is just too nutty and incomprehensible. It MUST all be the work of the FSM's noodly appendage.

:)

[Jeffersons Ghost]

68. that depends...

Before Darwin sailed to the Galapagos Islands he did not observe those niches and how species evolve to fill them. In a sense, it brings us back to Plato. It's as if Darwin somehow unshackled his mind and began to ascend from some Allegorical cave. In doing this, Darwin expresses his Divine Nature, that same spark of Divinity is in each of us, as our primary creative aspect.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

55. you've obviously read his work

I believe it was Einstein who said, "I don't know what kind of weapons they will fight World War III with but they'll fight World War IV with sticks and stones." I disagree; WW IV will be fought by micro-organisms that can so quickly adapt that they become resistant to radiation. Nature will select far simpler traits, after profound changes to the ecosystem occur and the trend has started: A simpleton has been selected as president.

[madeline_con]

80. "... fought by micro-organisms ..."

I'd read something about Los Alamos being involved in the study of ethnospecific biowarfare. Stuff that could kill a particular group and not harm the rest. :scared:

[ComerPerro]

46. I've got a copy of the Bible at home

and some of that stuff is pretty damn funny. Some of the stuff is true. But I just don't think you can swallow the whole piece.

[deadparrot]

49. Going against the Vatican, I see.

Considering many people in my diocese were threatened with excommunication if they didn't toe the Vatican's line on voting in 2004, I think Mr. Gibson should be afforded the same privilege. :)

[spanone]

51. Actors opinions carry no more weight than your or mine. Who cares?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

57. There are many animals around who are a hybrid of another existing one.

I have a cat (American Bobtail) who is thought to be a cross between a bobcat and a tabby cat. Does that mean that there are no more tabby cats OR bobcat around??? NO

[hopein08]

63. Boy am I glad I never really liked any of his movies...

except perhaps "The Patriot" or whatever that Revolutionary War one was...and I liked that one for Heath Ledger mostly.

I don't think Mr. Gibson is using Bible approved language in that article, seems quite UN-CHRISTIAN to me, as a matter of fact.

[Initech]

71. I'd personally like to see Mel Gibson debate Tom Cruise

We'd see some sheer idiocy on both sides, it would make for some truly great television!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

72. Some cute men are so dumb, they should just be seen and not heard nt

[JI7]

81. i don't find either of them attractive

have never been into them.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

73. The REAL issue here...

Whether Christianity is taught in public schools is no longer the real issue. The issue is now how it will be presented to students in many states in the country. Next, you will see the opening of an article from a website that is funded for the most part, by the Democratic Party.

December 28, 2005

Bible Guide For Public Schools Gets Jewish Okay
By JENNIFER SIEGEL
December 30, 2005

In an effort to neutralize the growing popularity of a right-wing Bible textbook for public schools, two major Jewish organizations are backing an alternative study guide. But some liberal watchdogs warn that the alternative textbook also could lead teachers to violate the separation of church and state.

The new textbook, "The Bible and Its Influence," has been endorsed by the American Jewish Congress and the Anti-Defamation League, as well as Catholic leaders and a wide range of liberal and conservative Protestants. The ADL and the AJCongress both have condemned another textbook, "The Bible in History and Literature," used in more than 300 school districts across the country, according to its publisher.

the remainder of this article is at http://www.aladems.org/News/frmArticle.aspx?NewID=1053

[Jeffersons Ghost]

76. ???

Please someone tell me how this board keeps climbing to the top, with no more postings since my last entry... does someone at DU want to show us as Godless Democrats?

[madeline_con]

77. The reason some people can't accept evolution as fact is

they don't understand what Darwin SAID! It makes me nuts when people say "why are monkeys still here?" AARRGGGHHHHHH!

(We need an emoticon who pulls his hair out.)

[JI7]

82. dumbass