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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:08 PM
Original message
When The Future Happened Before

When The Future Happened Before


{1} "We faced an extraordinary situation requiring an extraordinary response, and you don't want a constitutional, legal mandate for that kind of thing. You don't want to institutionalize the excesses required to meet extraordinary threats."
--Tom Charles Huston to Senate Intelligence Committee

The most recent White House scandal involving President Bush ordering the NSA to spy on American citizens is not new. As a full-page ad in the 12-29-05 New York Times reminded us, this is the same issue that the nation confronted during the Nixon years. Reports by the Times on the FBI's investigating anti-war activists, which must be viewed as part and parcel of the same administration policy, brings the 1970 Interagency Committee on Intelligence (Ad Hoc) to mind.

In reviewing that strange time, I used several sources, including: "The Future While It Happened," by Samuel Lubell (1973); "The American Police State," by David Wise (1976); "The Camera Never Blinks," by Dan Rather (1977); "The Imperial Presidency," by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. (1973); "The Puzzle Palace," by James Bamford, (1982); and "The Secret Man," by Bob Woodward, (2005).

These authors present a clear picture of the dangers posed to our democracy by an executive branch that is using "national security" as the reason to ignore the constitution. The Bush administration uses 9-11 and technological advances as the reason they had to ignore the constitution and federal law. By no small coincidence, the Nixon administration made similar claims: the threat posed by the Nazis in WW2 was nothing compared to that of the communist menace, and stealing foreign code books was faster and less expensive than having the NSA "break" them. But the illegal activities advocated in the Huston Plan were not new.

{2} "We are now confronted with a new and grave crisis in our country -- one which we know little about. Certainly hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Americans -- mostly under 30 -- are determined to destroy our society."
-- Tom Charles Huston in a memo to President Richard Nixon

Tom Charles Huston was a 29-year old attorney when he joined the Nixon White House in 1969. He had been an Army Intelligence Officer before joining the research staff of Patrick Buchanan, Nixon's speech writer. Soon, however, Huston was promoted to a position in the White House's internal security. He was considered the resident expert in the "counter-culture," largely because he was more familiar with "youth issues" than men like Agnew, Buchanan and Haldeman. In fact, J. Edgar Hoover considered Huston to be a "hippie."

In the summer of 1969, Huston attended informal White House meetings of the most conservative members of the Nixon administration. The group, called the "Committee of Six," were pushing to have the IRS put pressure on what were considered political enemies on the democratic left. This resulted in the IRS forming the Special Services Staff, which would coordinate its work with the FBI and CIA.

Huston would urge them to collect intelligence on "ideological, militant, subversive, radical and similar type organizations." However, the SSS soon was investigating non-violent, patriotic draft protestors, peace demonstrators, and people who organized and attended "rock festivals."

On 6-20-69, Huston sent a memo to intelligence agencies, including the CIA, DIA, FBI, and NSA, stating that there was an increased need to target "foreign Communist support for revolutionary youth activities inside this country." He asked the agencies to identify gaps in their ability to confront the revolutionary youth movement in America. The results of his study left Huston and others from the Committee of Six convinced that the administration needed greater powers in confronting the internal threats to democracy facing America.

{3} "No amount of institutional or bureaucratic reform, or legislative remedies, can protect us against an evil President. We have created powerful intelligence mechanisms, and they will be misused if a President, in seeking domestic tranquillity, abandons the blessings of liberty."
-- David Wise, co-author of "The Invisible Government"

On 6-5-70, President Nixon had the representatives of the CIA, DIA, FBI, NSA, and the secretary of HEW meet with Tom Charles Huston. Their goal was to devise a plan that would allow the intelligence agencies to spy on domestic and foreign targets. They formed the Interagency Committee on Intelligence (Ad Hoc).

The ICI considered problems involving electronic surveillances and penetration; surreptitious entry; legal restraints on communication intelligence; opening of mail; and other related issues. Huston worked closely with William Sullivan of the FBI, who by 1970 had an acrimonious relationship with FBI Director Hoover. The details of Huston's work, which focused largely upon allowing the NSA and CIA the ability to conduct domestic operations, also attempted to give the FBI the responsibility of the black bag jobs, or illegal break-ins.

Details of the Huston Plan can be found in Bamford's "The Puzzle Palace," chapter 6. The July report, known as the Huston Plan, included a warning to President Nixon: "Use of this technique is clearly illegal: it amounts to burglary. It is also highly risky and could result in great embarassment if exposed." However, Nixon would sign on to it. It was only after Hoover went to Attorney General Mitchell, who then advised Nixon of the dangers, that Nixon rescinded his approval. However, the ICI would continue to meet for the next three years.

{4} "This memorandum addresses the matter of how we can maximize the fact of our incumbency in dealing with persons known to be active in their opposition to our Administration. Stated a bit more bluntly -- how can we use the available federal machinery to screw our political enemies."
-- John Dean, 8-16-71

After Hoover put Huston in check, John Dean was promoted take the lead on internal security operations. Along with Haldeman and Ehrlichman, he would help come up with a way the administration could go around the constraints on the intelligence agencies. They would create their own mini-intelligence agency, which would be known as "the Plumbers," because of the focus on stopping leaks to the press.

In June of 1971, the New York Times began to print the Pentagon Papers, which had been leaked by Daniel Ellsburg. The Plumbers would break into the office of Dr. Lewis Felding, a psychiatrist treating Ellsburg. While this is the best known break-in until the Watergate burglary, it was far from the only one.( For example, Dr. Robert Akeret, who was treating Mrs. Ellsburg, had his office broken into, hinting to historians that the Plame scandal was not actually the first time an administration targeted the wife of an "enemy," despite Dean's claims in "Worse Than Watergate.")

On 6-27-71, the New York Times published the resultsof a survey by the Potomac Associates, which showed a growing number of Americans were troubled by the Nixon administration's actions in Southeast Asia. The P.A. was headed by former NSC member William Watts, who resigned from Kissinger's staff over the invasion of Cambodia.

On 7-6, John Caufield would write a memo to Dean about the Potomac Associates. This would be the start of the White House's "Enemies List." Eventually, the P.A. would be broken into three times by Plumbers.

{5} "There is little real awareness in this country of the breadth and depth of a President's public relations and propaganda apparatus. Within the White House itself if he chooses to do so -- and President Nixon did -- he has the power to mount a campaign to wipe out anyone or anything."
-- Dan Rather

Early in the Nixon administration, CBS reporter Dan Rather became aware of how the White House falsely planted a story that his network "faking an incident in Vietnam, staging, or recreating, a battle scene." Rather worked to expose the administration's lie. He would become viewed as an enemy of the White House.

On 4-9-72, Jean Rather woke Dan around 1 am to say she believed there was a burglar in their house. When he attempted to call the police, Rather found his phone lines had been cut. After letting the burglar(s) know he had a gun, Rather was able to contact the police. They found that nothing of value, such as money, was taken. Instead, only his "reporter's files" had been broken into.

Rather and his family had been scheduled to be away from home that night. He was supposed to be traveling with President Nixon, until something unexpected changed his plans. But he was, like Daniel Schorr, targeted by the Nixon intelligence operations.

On 5-22-73, Seymour Hersch reported on the NSA's spying on Israel. On 8-1, the St. Louis Dispatch also reported that the Nixon administration had ordered the NSA to spy on two countries, assumed to be Israel and Tanzania. Nixon responded furiously that both JFK and LBJ had done much the same thing. In fact, this was accurate; the difference was that their concerns were national security, as opposed to political activities.

That summer, lawyers for the Weathermen requested any files that resulted from burglary, sabotage, electronic surveillance, agents provocateurs or other "espionage techniques." The Federal District Court Judge D.J. Keith, who was hearing their case, approved the motion. US Attorney W. L. Ibershef asked him to reconsider: "The government doesn't believe this is a proper forum for a trial of government misconduct."

The case went to the US Supreme Court. It determined that the president indeed has the constitutional duty to protect the nation, but that did not include the authority to order warrentless surveillance. No decision was reached on the issue of foreign powers. The US government would drop the charges in what is known as the Keith Case.

{6} "I cannot say that our country could have no central police without becoming totalitarian, but I can say with great conviction that it cannot become totalitarian without a centralized national police ..... a national police ... will have enough on enough people, even if it does not elect to prosecute them, so that it will find no opposition to its policies."
-- Supreme Court Justice Robert H. Jackson

In 1975, the Church Committe hearings heard from J.J. Angleton, the legendary CIA leader. They were startled to hear an infamous quote from him: "It's inconceivable that a secret intelligence arm of the government has to comply with all the orders of the government."

And in 1980, ex-president Nixon testified in the trial of Mark Felt, for ordering "black bag jobs" on the family and friends of Weathermen. On 10-29, Nixon told the court that "what would otherwise be unlawful or illegal becomes legal" when the president orders it.

As Lubell wrote, "The drive for presidential power has been a drive to commit the future .... Once the fishhook of commitment becomes lodged in a nation's throat, voter opinion will thrash about furiously, like a powerful but helpless sailfish."
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Happy New Year, H2O!
:party:

Thanks again.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Happy New Year!
I think 2006 can be a great year for democracy.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. I sure hope so!
"I think 2006 can be a great year for democracy."

:toast: Happy New Year!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Happy New Year!
And I am sure that 2006 will be the most dynamic year in our country since 1968, even though there is not a presidential election.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I am comforted by your educated opinion on the matter.
:)
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank you, H2O Man, for drawing a picture for us
of possible parallels that are sure to exist. We need someone to expose them all and take the necessary steps to put a stop to the insanity.
Happy New Year to all of us!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think that besides
the federal law regarding warrentless surveillance that most of us are familiar with, this essay points out the "Keith case," which went to the US Supreme Court. I think the Bush administration has violated the restraints imposed by both the legilature and judiciary. Let's make 2006 the year that the people of the United States stand up to the revolutionary executive branch, and demand that the balance of federal powers is restored.
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kohodog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #5
44. well put, H2O Man
and happy new year!

Their brazen admission of willfully and knowingly breaking the law must not go unchallenged.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #44
52. As Vince Bugliosi says,
where did they buy the balls that allow them to be so brazen?
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. How soon we forget
This is like a recurring dream. I wake up and I know I've been through this before.

Great post, H20 Man. Here's to a better year than the last. :toast:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. It strikes me as singular
that anything could make the Nixon era seem like the second most criminal administration in the history of our nation. But this group is far worse.

Happy New Year!
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Didn't the folks who went thru it have responsiblity to not let it happen
again?

:shrug: Wasn't that long ago. This is where some of the generational --let me say-- confusion comes up on DU. How did the Boomers old enough to remember this (I would say "vividly" but maybe drugs dulled the experience) allow the powers of government be abused (so gradually and obviously) to this degree, again, so soon?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The best explanation
might be that this was like an infection on the body politic. The nation was prescribed an antibiotic, but the pardon of Nixon was like stopping the prescription before finishing it. The infection came back stronger, with Iran-Contra. Again, there was a prescription, but the Bush1 pardons stopped the medicine, and the infection has again mutated, and come back stronger.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. A metaphor
illustrates, but can we talk about the experience, the awareness (or lack or it)? The best answer DU has come up with so far is the Boomers were too busy having kids and they tuned out.

Ignoring the clear signal sent by Iran/Contra that if it WAS ignored and the infection continued. that the nation would become completely fucked and -- well -- exactly where we are right now.............
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Perhaps the most
obvious answer is that people did not elect presidents, senators, and congressmen who had the strength to fight the good fight. There was the attempt to elect someone outside the Reagan/Bush mold in 1992. However, as it turned out, and as is documented in Gore Vidal's "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace," President Clinton took significant moves in denying American citizens some of the core rights that had been part of our legal system since Day One.

I'm not sure how having children would be considered playing a role in people from the 1960s and '70s becoming "tuned out." I think the youth of that era were more of a social force. But the hippie generation was not holding the reins of power to begin with, of course, but for many, having children created more of an investment in creating a better society. I think that one of the big differences in today is that young people are less involved in politics, and less invested in dedicated work towards changing society.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Spectators
A nation disengaged and disinterested. I don't believe all the responsibility is on the elected public officials, if Americans don't have the wherewithal to at least respond, react, register, SOMETHING......... NOT CALLING THEM ON THEIR PROPAGANDA AND BULLSHIT with Reagan's "Landslide" and Iran/Contra, etc., etc., etc., etc. has lasted to this very day-- and now we are trying to figure out how to call them on their propaganda and bullshit? :crazy:

The "having children and tuned out" thing, as I say, is the only answer DU has come up with-- I didn't say I know what it means. It means nothing.

"But the hippie generation was not holding the reins of power to begin with, of course, but for many, having children created more of an investment in creating a better society."

The biggest lesson of that era was that each of us is part of the process: "The personal is political." And then those young folks dropped off the political map? "Holding the reins of power" wasn't the point-- HOLDING POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE was! :bounce: That was the lesson of the past/present that you are bringin up, fer gawds sake!!!!!!!!!!! What happened to all those people????????????????? (The only active ones mentioned are the Watergate kids that went into journalism and a certain age group of tail-end Boomer activists)

The fact that most of the Boomers disappeared, grew up/"sold out" and limped out all these decades is DIRECTLY responsible for this:

"...today is that young people are less involved in politics, and less invested in dedicated work towards changing society."

I don't want to lecture or bug you, I know you are revered here for due reason-- this is an exciteable issue because it is crucial, yet DU can never seem to come to terms (or even wholly acknowledge it) and I hoped that you might provide some real insight.

Happy New Year All :toast:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. "The fact that most of the Boomers
disappeared,grew up/ "sold out" and limped out all these decades is DIRECTLY responsible for this: '...today is that young people are less involved in politics, and less invested in dedicated work towards changing society.' "

Baloney. With all due respect, that is easily proven to be without merit. The hippies did not have radical parents. Most of us had pleasant cogs in the Eisenhower machine. To understand the relationship between generations requires a closer examination of systems, and to understand the '60s one must appreciate group dynamics.

But, once you break it down to individuals having babies, etc .... then you have moved from group dynamics to individual responsibility. Two very different things.

I certainly do not consider your questions and comments to be lectures, and surely they do not bug me. It's a good topic of conversation, especially on the eve of 2006. If there is a gap of time between my responses on here, it is due only to ... well, my younger children demanding my immediate attention! But soon, they will be fast asleep.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. "...easily proven to be without merit" with false assumptions?
"...easily proven to be without merit" with false assumptions that I invoke some Alex P. Keaton generational flip-flop?

"The hippies did not have radical parents. Most of us had pleasant cogs in the Eisenhower machine."

The "relationships between generations" that I refer to is the total cooptation and crumpling of the "youth culture" you mentioned. That loss is the most deathly mistake the Boom could have accepted-- it was obvious from the start (by the late 70's) what the scoundrels were up to, what the results would be....

Younger generations have no concept (except nostalgic) and no opportunity to ever see the likes of "youth culture" or "youth movement" again.

That is why:

The fact that most of the Boomers disappeared, grew up/"sold out" and limped out all these decades is DIRECTLY responsible for this:
"...today is that young people are less involved in politics, and less invested in dedicated work towards changing society."





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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. Respectfully disagree .....
Younger generations are responsible for their own "youth culture." It is the job of teens & youth to reject their parents' world, just as it is the job of people over 30 to start to become invested in things like "family life." Few things sadder than someone who is 60 trying to act like they are 19 .... and we only need look at the Rolling Stones for evidence of that. Better to be the Beatles, growing up and experiencing human nature. There is nothing, John Lennon found out, more revolutionary or important than being a good parent. (No disrespect for the few true revolutionaries like Gandhi, who were inadequate parents and spouses.)

One need only look around the globe today to see that in any country where there is true progress being made, it's young people doing it. And that was just as true yesterday: around the globe in the '50s, 60s, and 70s, it was always young people leading the way. Hence, it is a safe bet that if there is a true "progressive" social movement in the USA in this era, it will be young people's energy fueling the movement. The ball is entirely in their court.

Perhaps the more important question is why are young people largely apathetic, disorganized, self-indulgent souls who expect instant gratification? Not all of them, of course. But as I have said before -- perhaps too often -- if we are going to look at the responsibility of different generations, then we must include the fact that many of the battles that my generation fought and sacrificed for, have been lost by young people who are not abled to think for themselves, and are incapable of grasping that there are things beyond their immediate surroundings. The younger generation today are a largely "physical" people .... and if their "immediate surroundins" with its eating and sleeping, its loud music and dancing and singing, its bright colors and laughter, and its wine and drugs are taken away from these children .... they are left naked, without the understanding required to resist a criminal system that is both attempting and accomplishing the theft of their very selves! So it has been easy for this system, this mechanically-oriented administration, to capitalize off the younger generation's ignorance, and to capitalize upon it. For this generation as a whole knows nothing about the measure of thought, and hence has no faith in the power of ideas, and so they are largely without the ability to support or protect themselves .... and rather than take responsibility now -- which is the proper context of "now" -- they express a sense of betrayal, that their parents didn't make life easier for them.

I urge caution in trusting anyone under 30.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. They. Bought. All. The. Media.
...and gutted education, which led directly and predictably to the colorful, soulless scenes you describe.


Happy New Year, H20man. :toast: Thank you for indulging The Question.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
54. That question would make a thousand good graduate thesis papers
for many years to come.

If anyone has a simple answer to this one question alone that you pose, they would be wealthy and famous, etc.

I hope some of those now studying political sciences would consider the topic.

This is somewhat too meaty to be simply answered in a forum such as this, and would require many years of study and many pages of response.

Maybe this could be its own forum/thread.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Whad'I win?
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. I am YOUR future, young man
:evilgrin:

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Wow!
I knew that you would have a response to my favorite Al:
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. lol -- confession time
I still have that copy of Time Magazine :D
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Clearly
that Time copied the Yippies' "OverThrow" cover .....

I actually find Haig an interesting character. He once said the invasion of Grenada could have been better accomplished with a municipal police department. He also attempted to keep what he viewed as an unelected force from taking control of the country when Reagan was shot.
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TheCentepedeShoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Thank you, once again !!
It's an adult version of connect-the-dots.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
15. 'Tis all moot if no risk is involved.
Daniel Ellsberg faced 130 years in prison under the Espionage Act for photocopyping 7,000 pages of the Pentagon Papers and sending them to newspapers

Daniel Ellsberg and codefendant Tony Russo, had to risk prison to make the First Amendment come alive.

Happy New Years!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. One wishes
people like Sibel E. would take notice of that risk Ellsburg and Russo took!
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understandinglife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. "Sibel Edmonds Calls for National Security Officials to Step Forward as
Edited on Sat Dec-31-05 07:32 PM by understandinglife
... Whistleblowers" is a good start for 2006:

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002211.htm

And, gotta admire that Craig Murray!! as well as how quickly bloggers in Europe and the US responded to his brave actions this past week.

Happy New Year "H20 Man,"
Bob


Peace.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. I have a good feeling about the outcome of Ms Edmond and her
valuable information. I believe she'd learned a lot from her mistakes.

Her biggest mistake was to come clean with Thomas Kean, in my estimation,
and to take his advice, in the summer of 04. (Talk about playing with vipers)

This is a hair trigger, which Sibel is fine tuning with experience. She may be willing to take that risk sooner rather than later. She can't let to much time go by in this case. I think she'll do fine.

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ClayZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
19. My deja' has been stuck on VU, too!
Edited on Sat Dec-31-05 07:24 PM by ClayZ
I hope Fitzgerald gets busy fast, and that some very important someone shouts the IMPEACHMENT loud enough that the Whole Wide WORLD hears it!


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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. What Happened To Huston?
Do we know the names of any young men who may have sat at his feet?

One of the most dismaying aspects of the last five years has been the willingness of so many Americans to graze on B*** grass. There is much conjecture as to why, and why they wouldn't lift their heads to look at the sky, but perhaps there is no one answer, that it is an amalgamation of reasons for why a trusting nation would allow itself to be lied into war and more. But after half a decade of this, it is time to wake up. I recently read an article, I think on HuffPo, which said essentially, if we as a group do nothing about these felons and their crimes then the face we see in the mirror will be that of the enemy.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. I think that he
is involved in commerce relating to real estate.

The mistakes of the past 5 years can become the foundation for today.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. k&r
thank you, as always, sensei :toast:

and a Happy New Year to you & yours :loveya:

peace
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thank you for this, and here's to a Happy and very Interesting
2006. I think you're right about it being a very dynamic year.

I also have a good feeling that the tide is favoring us, and that awareness, conversation, and action are at their highest in some time and continuing to grow in strength.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #29
41. 2006
should be the Year of the Bill of Rights. I think that we should all appreciate how valuable it really is -- and proof of that is the extreme actions that our enemies are taking to deny the Bill of Rights to the American public. Only our enemies would try to chip away at the Bill of Rights. It seems to me that 2006 will be dynamic to the exact extent that we exercise those rights outlined in that document .... through "that awareness, conversation, and action" that you mention!
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coeur_de_lion Donating Member (935 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
30. Happy New Year, and here's to
thrashing about furiously, like a powerful but helpless sailfish.

Let's do some mighty thrashing in 2006.

I'm drinking the champagne I saved for the Plame indictments.

:toast:
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
31. Just won't do it, will you
Provide the real link (permalink): http://h2oman.blogspot.com/2005/12/when-future-happened-before.html

So disrespectful -- to both your work and your readers here.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 09:43 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thanks for the writing H2O man
Edited on Sat Dec-31-05 09:45 PM by annces8
I have just a general knowledge of Nixon and Watergate, but I am glad to read your writings, because you bring out the important points.

I find it funny that you compare Bush2 to Nixon, as my thinking is that Nixon was much more intelligent, though paranoid. Whereas I think of Bush as somewhat of a brute, though the abuse of power comes easy to him.

More things should happen when Fitzgerald continues his investigations. However, the new Supreme Court may be kind of weaselly in trying to sort out the spying issues.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thanks for that well needed "perspective." Trying to keep it all
in mind "historically" when so much is breaking and the internet is so fast sometimes means we lose site of what's "gone before."

Happy New Year to YOU!

Let's hope next year will be better...GAWD...I can't think of it getting worse. :D (gallows humor)
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AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. A Highly Significant & Most Fascinating Read!
Thanks you again, H2O Man!

And HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL!

:beer:
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JanusAscending Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks for the refresher course H20!
I had forgotten so much of this, and I lived through it all!! Hope you have a POSITIVE New Year, and the Mother and the Great Spirit smiles on us all!!! Happy 2006 to all!!!:toast: DC
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
37. Thanks for the history lesson
I lived during that era too, but just wasn't paying attention. So much I wasn't aware of back then. Now, I have woken up. Definitely, this should be quite an interesting year.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
38. Your writing ability and deep perspective always
leave me in awe of your grasp of the important points of an issue. Thank you for the above. I am sure that much of what Nixon started has been carried through to this time in our history due in large part to the work of Cheney, Rumsfield and who else from then?

I very much like what you said upthread about the pardons not inoculating us from this poison... just putting off the inevitable fight. I think (I hope) we are now ready to engage in the battle to keep our constitution and bill of rights in tact as we head into the 21st C.

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. Thank you.
I appreciate knowing that some people enjoy reading the things I write here. Quite often, these are the things that pop into my head when I'm doing the dishes or staring out the window in my den. My wife and children are all fast enough to hide on me when they know I'm outlining these thoughts in my mind.

The conversation up above, regarding the rights and responsibilities of different generations, reminds me of some of the theories of Erik Erikson. In part, he believed that each person will deal with a given number of issues in life .... let's say, for the sake of conversation, that the number is ten. Each level of growth, including physical and psychological, might be compared to a step on a staircase. And on each step on this staircase of life, the individual encounters those same problems. As a person grows, they learn that there are some issues that cannot actually be "solved," but rather are "merely" dealt with. Thus, in terms of human progress, we must learn to accept that some of the problems we dealt with earlier -- as individuals and as society -- rear their ugly heads at unexpected times and in unexpected ways ..... and we find ourselves thinking, "Haven't I/we done this before?"

Thus, you are EXACTLY right in noting that we are engaged in "the inevitable fight." I like that ... "the inevitable fight." I hope that you do not mind if I "borrow" that phrase when discussing Erikson and that staircase.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. I would be
pleased to loan you the phrase on the condition that when the time comes to be engaged in it, you give me a call to participate. :)
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
42. Thanks, I needed this....
I am heading home to NC after a week with my parents in NY and it has been depressing. I asked my mother (R) if she had read 1984 at dinner last night. I asked if she saw any connection to today and our current government. She is so thoroughly Faux News damaged she told me....

"I am not afraid of our government at all, I am afraid of the people trying to come into our country and kill us".

You can not even imagine how well read this woman is, yet she has become totally brainwashed by a diet of Faux and Rush.

As I depart this morning I will have your wonderful words to ponder and take hope. Thank you.

:)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
43. A New Year's Thought .....
An interesting part of this thread, at least for me, is the discussion started by omega minimo, which deals with individual and group responsibility, and how it can take different forms as we progress on the journey of our lives. It is my impression that the majority of DUers tend to journey on that road less traveled. So here is my "Happy New Year" card to you.


The Road Not Taken
by Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence;
Two roads diverged in a wood and I --
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #43
49. thanks for that one, h20 man
the funny looks you get on this road can get on your nerves, sometimes. it is comforting to see the quality of people that you meet on this road.
great thread, great company. thanks.
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. “An interesting part of the thread” for me too
Edited on Sun Jan-01-06 11:08 PM by omega minimo
... perhaps then we will develop some better safeguards to protect this nation from the next generation of amnesiacs.

:hi: :grouphug: :toast: Happy New Year, Everyone!!







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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. I don't know many
people who are part of what you describe as being part of a disconnect. From my experience, which I admit is limited, most of the people who were politically active in the 1960s are politically active today. Obviously they are not still in college, or part of the youth culture. But it would be an error to think that there were tons of people committed to social change in that era, who have "sold out." It might be that some people flirted with the hippie life-style, or smoked pot, or took part in a civil rights march, but were at very most on the fringes of progressive political activism.

More, things like the Watergate hearings and Iran-Contra weren't really the result of a significant democratic majority in the general population, or in congress. They were the result of the hard work of a minority, added to a lack of support within the republican party for some of the criminals in the executive branch.

There were, of course, important advances in a number of areas, from civil rights to the anti-war movement to environmental policies. But these are not problems that get "solved," only dealt with. And while it is important to learn from both the successes and errors of the past, it's just as important to keep them in the correct perspective. For all the problems we are confronted with, things are okay. We are in a huge conflict, a life and death struggle, but we are going to meet the challenges ahead.

Of course, that is just my opinion. I view things in a positive way.
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
45. Wow, great thread.
I continue to be astounded at how large Nixon's shadow looms over this administration, and how little that troubles everyone else. Nice work, H20Man.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. It's a strange combo:
George W. Bush has all of Nixon's terrible qualities, and Cheney is the essence of those qualities that were worse than terrible.
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wovenpaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
50. kick back to page 1 again!
Happy New Year H2O Man!
I always anticipate-and appreciate-your writings for their information and your great insights.
Please keep 'em coming in 2006!

BTW, when I asked a person close to me who is involved daily in journalism and politics, about thoughts for 2006....the opinion offered was that this would be a "decisive" year......let's hope it's a good one!

:kick:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Happy New Year!
I look forward to the conversations on DU in the coming months. I think it's going to be a heck of a year.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. a heck of a year??
One can only hope.

:)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. A heck of a year!
Democracy will take hold to the exact extent that we exercise that Bill of Rights.
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
59. nixon created the Drugs Enforcement Agency to
throw his political opponents in to jail just like you said, but you left that out.

Highlights of Nixon comments on marijuana:

* Jews and marijuana: "I see another thing in the news summary this morning about it. That's a funny thing, every one of the bastards that are out for legalizing marijuana is Jewish. What the Christ is the matter with the Jews, Bob, what is the matter with them? I suppose it's because most of them are psychiatrists . . ."
* Marijuana and the culture wars: "You see, homosexuality, dope, immorality in general. These are the enemies of strong societies. That's why the Communists and the left-wingers are pushing the stuff, they're trying to destroy us."
* Marijuana compared to alcohol: marijuana consumers smoke "to get high" while "a person drinks to have fun." Nixon also saw marijuana leading to loss of motivation and discipline but claimed: "At least with liquor I don't lose motivation."
* Marijuana and political dissent: ". . . radical demonstrators that were here . . . two weeks ago . . . They're all on drugs, virtually all."
* Drug education: "Enforce the law, you’ve got to scare them."

http://www.csdp.org/news/news/nixon.htm
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