Democratic Party? Fuck you bastards. You went too far. (Paul Hackett)

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/14/politics/14ohio.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1139892186-g1RaM6sADXy/WCEyfdzKOw

Popular Ohio Democrat Drops Out of Race, and Perhaps Politics
Published: February 14, 2006

Paul Hackett, an Iraq war veteran and popular Democratic candidate in Ohio's closely watched Senate contest, said yesterday that he was dropping out of the race and leaving politics altogether as a result of pressure from party leaders.

Mr. Hackett said Senators Charles E. Schumer of New York and Harry Reid of Nevada, the same party leaders who he said persuaded him last August to enter the Senate race, had pushed him to step aside so that Representative Sherrod Brown, a longtime member of Congress, could take on Senator Mike DeWine, the Republican incumbent.

Mr. Hackett staged a surprisingly strong Congressional run last year in an overwhelmingly Republican district and gained national prominence for his scathing criticism of the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq War. It was his performance in the Congressional race that led party leaders to recruit him for the Senate race.

But for the last two weeks, he said, state and national Democratic Party leaders have urged him to drop his Senate campaign and again run for Congress.

"This is an extremely disappointing decision that I feel has been forced on me," said Mr. Hackett, whose announcement comes two days before the state's filing deadline for candidates. He said he was outraged to learn that party leaders were calling his donors and asking them to stop giving and said he would not enter the Second District Congressional race.
<snip>

This has broken a straw with me.

They are so eager to appease polls and centrists that they give up any semblance of party loyalty and integrity.

I am sick.

(Thanks to Tiggeroshii who first posted this in LBN)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2107019 for the thread

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

Is this a spoof? Oh, please tell me it's a spoof.

Please.

Paul Hackett's terrific. He'd be a brave, great Senator.

Those filthy fucks.

They're such weasel losers.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

2. I only wish it fucking were.

sickening.

[...of J.Temperance]

19. Hey I'm a Centrist Democrat and I like Paul Hackett :)

Can Sherrod Brown win? I hope so.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

40. Hell, like you or me could make a difference in this election anyway!

:toast:

[...of J.Temperance]

42. Well yeah you have a point of course!

:toast:

[Dinger]

103. Sickening, ...Could/Would Hackett Run On A 3rd Party Ticket?

Would it be a good idea? I don't know, I suppose it would fracture the Democratic party, but after all, how much worse could it get? I'm from Wisconsin, but I am willing to do whatever I can to see HACKETT STAY IN POLITICS!

[OzarkDem]

116. HE WAS 20 POINTS BEHIND BROWN IN THE POLLS

What the hell is the matter with you people? Dem voters in Ohio had a chance to see Hackett up close and were deciding that Brown is the better choice.

Screw you and stay out of our state affairs. If you can't take the time to learn about all the candidates in this race your opinion is worthless.

[converted_democrat]

127. Brown might be the choice of the Dems, but the man can't carry the state..

It will never happen.. My family are all rabid pukes, and they loved Hackett.. Hackett appeals to both sides of the fence.. Brown doesn't, and won't.. Hackett lost that rep race by the skin of his teeth in the most rabidly puke district that there is.. He had pukes vote for him.. Brown won't.

On edit- I grew up in Ohio, and all of my family still lives there.. Mark my words.. Brown will not carry Ohio.

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[converted_democrat]

145. My family isn't voting against their best interest..

My family (my Dad) is loaded..My family were going to vote for Hackett because of the way he stood up against *.. Though it is in their best interest to vote puke, they are honest people and they didn't like being lied to by the president. Hackett was perfect because he was middle ground. Brown is a liberal, and liberals don't win in Ohio.. My dad would have voted for Hackett, but I know he'll never vote for Brown. I'd be willing to wager whatever you want.. Brown will not carry Ohio.


on edit- Pretty sad when you have to sink to the level that you have with the personal attacks... Doesn't faze me though.. I know you're still wrong, no matter how many times you insult me..

[qanda]

170. I'm glad that personal attack didn't faze you

I thought it was mean and unnecessary.

[Maru Kitteh]

146. Holy crap.

Way to go with the personal attack there! Jeebus. You should work on building strong arguments rather than responding to reasonable posts by attacking someones family and questioning their intelligence. It undermines your position.

[rg302200]

151. So you would rather us loose altogether

than try to appeal to those "downstate conservatives?" Brown won't win here in southern Ohio, I have been screaming this on the Ohio message boards for months. It doesn't matter if liberals will vote for Brown, because we all will. What matters is getting the moderate vote and that is something the Brown WILL NOT DO. How many times do we have to explain this to you before you understand what we are trying to say?

BTW I will support Brown, but when/if he looses I will try to refrain from giving you a big f****** I told you so!

P.S. Learn some tact already and stop attacking people that don't agree with you...

[stillrockin]

179. LOSE not LOOSE!!!!

n/t

[rg302200]

197. Sorry, I missed that one...

I was in a hurry....

[Dorian Gray]

153. Insults...

"doesn't sound like you and your family even know enough to cast an intelligent vote."

Wow. That was rude and uncalled for.

[Twist_U_Up]

157. extremely rude.

and on Valentines Day to boot.

[Twist_U_Up]

156. Nail meet hammer,right on the head.

You hit it. Repubs could relate to Hackett. He has most of their attitudes, but was on the Dems side.He was a mans man

sucks to say WAS...............wow

[Nikia]

200. I lived in NW Ohio, but not Toledo

What town I lived in really isn't important. The local Democrats put Brown in the big city interest even when he was Secretary of State. Party loyalists might support him but few other people there there will. I had read in my hometown's local online paper that Hackett had come there to a family diner and talked to people. That really meant something to them. Brown better get his butt out to the smaller towns if he is going to have any chance to win. Winning Cleveland isn't enough to win a state wide Senate race.

[Name removed]

135. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bill McBlueState]

166. then why not let him lose in the primary?

Instead there has to be this weird, loud campaign to force him out that serves only to highlight the Dems' internal divisions.

[OhioBlue]

210. "Our State affairs"

first of all, why alienate other Dems regarding "Our" senate race? There are only 100 senators, right now we have 2 republicans representing Ohio. Do you really claim them as "ours" or do you claim Dems as "ours"? The rest of the States have as much interest in winning competitive senate seats as we do.

Secondly, speak for yourself, not all Ohioans. You can quote polls 4 months before the primary all you want. The voters did not have a say as to who they wanted as their candidate.

[converted_democrat]

123. I'm really pissed off about this..

I grew up in Ohio, and all of my family still lives there.. They are rabid pukes, but they loved Hackett.. No disrespect to Brown, but there is no way that he can carry the state.. It will never happen.. Hackett was the only shot, and our leadership basically ran him off.. Why run the only guy with a shot at winning off?? That's what I don't get.. Hackett was doing great and still had time to go.. Plus he appealed to both sides of the fence.. I just don't get it.. Unless they actually want us to lose, I don't "get" the plan..

[mod mom]

130. They wanted a candidate they could control. As an Ohioan, I just sent a

nasty email letting them know they just lost two lifetime, contributing Dems who had put in many hours in the past to get out the vote (I organized a Dem club for my suburb, which at the height of the campaign in 04 had 300+ volunteers working to GOTV.

Thanks to these f-heads, Ohio will retain Dewine as it's Senator. Brown is seen, and hardly known, as a northern liberal. Hackett was proven to take votes away from Repubs in the heavy Repub 02 District. This is further proof that the DLC is NOT looking out for their base.

F@*% CHRIS REDFERN AND HIS DLC CRONIES!

[OldLeftieLawyer]

138. Yeah,

that's pretty much my stance on everything Democratic now. Harry Reid was a bad choice, and it really pissed me off, knowing full well how ineffectual and compliant he would be - remember him and Frist and the so-called "nuclear option" and those three hideous interim appointments to the Federal bench last year?.

But this sabotage of Hackett? This goes beyond ineffectual, and ends up in Self-Destruct Land.

[OzarkDem]

Hackett was 20 points behind in the polls

and was continuing to lose support. Hard to run for Senate when you can't win the primary.

[Twist_U_Up]

161. Heres a poll for you

http://rightangleblog.blogspot.com/2005/11/sherrod-brown-campaign-says-doh.html

You might be mistaken

[OldLeftieLawyer]

164. Polls

Yeah, the same polls that put John Kerry in the White House.

Democrats need to learn about loyalty. What Schumer and Reid and the leadership have done to Hackett just tells the American public that Democrats turn on their own, and love to shoot themselves in the foot while standing on their owns dicks in front of the whole country.

Hackett was part of the new start that the Democrats need. You don't win all the time, as we well know, but you have to start somewhere to change the status quo, which is "loser, loser, loser."

This kind of disloyal and short-sighted thinking is why the Republicans will win in November and keep control of Congress. Mark my words. The Democrats are clearly "not getting it."

[Twist_U_Up]

169. The question now becomes

Do they really want to get it ???

[OldLeftieLawyer]

171. Damned fine question

Never have I witnessed - in my long life - a more spineless, do-nothing bunch.

Why aren't these people lined up behind Jack Murtha? 55% of the American public doesn't support this Iraq debacle - why aren't the Democrats speaking to them via Murtha and his brave and brilliant and correct evaluation of the situation?

[mod mom]

172. LET THE VOTERS DECIDE NOT THE POLLS + F-ING POLITICIANS!

[NashVegas]

232. Do Push Polls Count?

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/2006/02/hackett_fallout.html#more

[OzarkDem]

139. Pretty sad

I expected more level headed thinking from you.

[Warren DeMontague]

182. "They wanted a candidate they could control"

Yep, I think you summed it up perfectly. How unfortunate. The man was the most politically inspiring thing I had seen in a very long time.

[clmbohdem]

216. Did the same from Columbus

I just sent the Ohio Democratic Party a nasty note saying good buy to my $$$.

[derby378]

3. If true, it's business as usual all over again...

This is exactly how John Kerry lost to George W. Bush. Don't tell me about the voting machines; I already know. But Kerry failed to light a fire underneath America when he had the chance.

[tularetom]

4. Goddamn those fucking assholes

The first candidate with brains and balls and these shitheels run him off. If I were one of the Iraq vet house candidates I'd have to give it a second thought if this is the kind of support I could expect from the party "leaders".

[OzarkDem]

112. Too bad voters disagreed

Last time I checked, Dem voters in Ohio had some say in the process and polls showed Hacketts support declining. He's not ready for the senate. That's the decision we have a right to make.

[converted_democrat]

152. Do you have a link to that poll?? I'd like to see it..n/t

[MadHound]

160. Oh, is this the poll conducted by the Feldman Group?

The same Feldman Group that was retained by Brown as his official pollster? Don't you think that such polling would be a bit skewed? Is this not the same Feldman group(and CEO Diane Feldman) who came under some fire for her Kerry campaign polls, especially the ones that concerned the female voter turnout? And isn't this the same Feldman Group that has heavy heavy ties with the DLC?

And don't you think that it would be better to use an independent polling group rather than a bought and paid for house organ?

[incapsulated]

5. THE DCCC OR WHOEVER DOESN'T SPEAK FOR THE PARTY!!

WE are the fucking party and we have to let Paul know that WE want him to run!!

:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

8. The money has been paid and accepted (metaphorically)

He's gone.

[incapsulated]

10. Well you are right

Fuck this fucking loser party I am SICK OF THEM!

[OzarkDem]

113. Are you from Ohio?

If so, you're in the minority, because Hackett was losing support. Ohio Dems aren't ready for a newbie senate candidate, that's why he was so far behind in the polls (and losing ground).

His efforts are better spent in running for the OH-2 seat.

Get off the martyr bandwagon.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Learn some facts, friend

Sherrod Brown is so completely far from being a centrist.

http://www.house.gov/sherrodbrown/issues.htm

http://www.house.gov/sherrodbrown/issuesfairaq.htm

Learn about the guy before you leap to conclusions. Brown is a Progressive Democrats of America candidate. He's a good Democrat.

[Craig3410]

9. He is; but why couldn't both of them have run?

Hackett in the Senate, Brown in the house?

Two progressive candidates > 1.

[deadparrot]

15. Well, Brown's already been in the House.

One would think he would want to move up eventually.

[derby378]

13. But can he FRAME?!?

Sorry, Will - but Hackett was the whole package. Brown is going to have to work his ass off just to build up the momentum that Hackett already had. We're getting rather sick of this whole "bait-and-switch" thing.

[WilliamPitt]

18. Brown has won an election or two already

I'd love to see hackett in the House.

[tularetom]

33. I support Brown also but

apparently Reid and Schumer were so heavyhanded in their approach to Hackett that he has decided to drop out of politics altogether thus assuring that the odious Jean Schmidt will keep her seat. Brown has a safe house seat - if he loses the senate race there is the possibility that his old seat will go republican so what has been gained? Net loss of one house seat and still no Dem senator. Not a good trade in my mind.

[leftchick]

106. What has been gained? Nothing!

The vichy democrats in congress have won again. This is beyond sickening.

[OzarkDem]

125. Bullshit

Hackett was losing, face it.

[converted_democrat]

133. Brown won't carry the state.. Face it..n/t

[PassingFair]

148. You're big on your 20% meme...

gotta link to that "poll"?

[OhioBlue]

211. in a district that was drawn for him

and Statewide like 20 years ago. Lately, Ohio is solidly in the Repugs hands.

[LincolnMcGrath]

14. I agree. And I gave money to Hackett.

Damn you're carrying more hearts around then Crashcart's ambulance crew! :hi:

On Edit: I agree with your point about Mr Brown. As for DSCC interference, well that is another story. :mad:

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

20. I'm not dissing Brown. It's the party that took Hackett out of the race.

I didn't say anything against Sherrod Brown. This is a venting against the party.

[tsuki]

105. This is going to backfire on Brown. Had to go running to the

party bigwigs to take out Hackett. And the allegation that the Democratic Party phoned Hackett supporters and told them not to give to Hackett; this is not good. Makes Brown look weak.

[John Q. Citizen]

176. I don't think the party can take anyone out of a race. Hackett

made the decision to drop out.

[Demoiselle]

22. Thank you Will!!

Brown is a good candidate, by all reports I've managed to read.
What's so terrible about winning a house seat before you go on to the
Senate, Mr. Hackett? It is about team work, isn't it?

[Terry_M]

25. According to the article

He has promised not to run for congress to other congressmen in the past and he does not wish to break his promise...

[Edgewater_Joe]

79. Bullshit -- IT'S ABOUT THE COUNTRY

And Hackett taking out Schmitt is going to go farther in trying to get us out of Iraq than "Can't" Hackett turning tail and fleeing because of a few phone calls.

What a fucking phony.

[Guaranteed]

24. It's bullshit regardless.

Brown already has a seat.

Hackett is...err, I'm sorry, WAS- the future of our party.

Now we get Sherrod Brown. Yay.

[WilliamPitt]

28. "Now we get Sherrod Brown. Yay."

Do you fucking KNOW anything about Brown? We'd be damned lucky to have 100 Senators just like him.

This is when I love DU. Getting pissed for the sake of getting pissed, and be damned to facts.

[Guaranteed]

31. I'm sorry, I forgot the MAYBE part with that.

Maybe we'll get Brown. You know we would have had Hackett.

And I think this is perhaps the 50th time you made this amazing "point," Will- as if that makes it okay for our Democratic leaders to be choosing who we get to vote for.

[Terry_M]

41. As someone else indicated

part of the getting pissed is over some assholes in DC putting in their effort into sinking a candidate in their own party behind the scenes.

[Twist_U_Up]

58. Whats Browns position on Election Fraud ?

Will he speak up when diebold walks off with his votes ?

[WilliamPitt]

59. Why don't you go find out?

[Twist_U_Up]

65. You seem to be the Brown spokesman

I thought you might know.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

67. Ouch!

[Twist_U_Up]

70. I know how Hackett feels

Ohio Honest Elections head
is Cliff Arnebeck. Here's a bit of background on the guy:
"Unpaid Counsel" to the Ohio Senate Republican Campaign Committee from 1980-1988, ran for Congress in the 1990 Republican primary, and lost.
Leaves the Republican party. Supports Ross Perot in 1992.
In 1996, blasts him as a "fascist dictator" and a "fraud."
Runs for Congress in 1996 as a Democrat, while also working as Bob Dole's Ohio ballot access lawyer.
Supports McCain in 2000.
In 2004, he supports Kerry, and claims that Bush stole Ohio through massive voter fraud. Files numerous lawsuits, which are all thrown out for lack of evidence.

Now-working to elect Paul Hackett.


I cant find anything about Elections and Sherrod , sorry

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mod mom]

142. Cliff Arnebeck is about the most honest dedicated progressive I know. He

was a Republican but the change in the party and his knowledge of fraud cause a change in him. I know him persoanlly, have had him over to my house several times and think the world of him. We has worked hard and long to fight for progressive values and for the disenfranchised in Ohio.

[OzarkDem]

122. You're showing your ignorance

Brown campaigned his ass off for the RON amendments to stop election fraud. I guess you weren't paying attention.

[OzarkDem]

118. Thanks Will

Sherrod Brown is an excellent man who has put up with a lot of crap in Congress without ever going the centrist route.

The mindless bashing of this good man by Hackett supporters has been offensive and probably contributed a great deal to Hackett losing support of Dems.

[mod mom]

140. Brown will not pull discontent repubs away. Hackett proved he could. Ohio

has perhaps the most corrupt election system in the US. We needed a overwhelming victory to overcome the Blackwell factor.

The point is though, that the party did not trust the will of the Dem voters in Ohio to make the decision. This was political suicide at the hands of the Dems. Let the people decide, not political hacks!

[rg302200]

155. I do, I have meet him...

Nice guy...but he won't win Ohio. He has no chance because he is viewed rightly/wrongly as a Northern Ohio liberal. Brown supports can say all they want about people voting on the issues that matter; jobs, health care and such. But here in Southern Ohio (which has been steadily gaining more voters over such places as Cleveland)they vote for whoever has an R by their name or who is NOT part of the liberal establishment. Face it that is the Ohio we live in and an Ohio that just put Dewine back in the Senate....

[Warren DeMontague]

189. Okay, Will, Brown has your stamp of approval.

That carries some weight with me. But, honestly, I'd really like some members of the party "in crowd" to 'splain what, precisely, the PROBLEM was with Hackett, when he was doing such a damn fine job of inspiring folks such as myself.

Or, maybe that was the problem.

[WilliamPitt]

193. OK

He was way behind Brown in the polls.

He had 1/10th of the money Brown had.

He wasn't going to win, and both would have been damaged by a primary fight.

This is politics, folks. Bring a helmet.

[Warren DeMontague]

208. C'mon, Will, you know this isn't about not being able to take hard knocks.

This is about our people being pathologically incapable of DELIVERING them (or, perhaps more saliently, our people not being allowed to deliver them?) to the other guys.

And lots of us can't quell the sneaking suspicion that this is about a party machinery that is obsessed with 'controlling the message' in precisely the wrong way- i.e., they want to spend all summer and fall sprinkling gratuitous references to Jesus into speeches while courting these fucking "values voters" that already get far too much political credit and attn. as it is... the LAST thing they wanted was a Senate candidate from Ohio talking -truthfully- about the religious kooks who have taken over the GOP, and also talking -truthfully- about the fact that opposition to full equal rights for our fellow gay and lesbian citizens is Unamerican BIGOTRY.

Since you're touting Brown's progressive credentials, I assume the guy is pro-choice--- although you certainly wouldn't know it from the "Issues" page on his website:

http://www.house.gov/sherrodbrown/issues.htm

I dunno, maybe that just means the guy is good at obfuscating what he believes in...

Which may be what keeps the party pooh-bahs happy, but lots of us are kind of sick of that crap.

[DemBones DemBones]

32. The problems is that they encouraged Hackett to run and then

pulled the rug out from under him. That's the kind of bullshit that has damned near ruined this party completely.

[TacticalPeek]

36. I cannot see that.

If Brown said that he would not run for the Senate, and then after Hackett entered and gained traction Brown jumps opportunistically into it, that's all I need to know about Brown.

And as bad as I think it is for the party and country for Hackett to leave politics, if he gave his word to the other Dems in the race for Schmidt's seat that he would stay out, then his staying out is the very thing that attracted me to him as a candidate in the first place.

I've been very patient with Harry Reid who has done some good things. I had hope for him as a fighter on our side. But if the NYT article is correct, this tears it for me with him and the fucking retarded Dem leadership.

It's not just about how progressive Brown is or Hackett is not. It's not just about how much money Brown has or Hackett does not. It's about what one will stand up for. The reasons I look down on Brown for entering the way he did are the same reasons I admire Hackett for leaving the way he did.

God help the whithering Democratic Party.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

56. Hello?

[sleipnir]

61. The anger is not directed at Brown but at the traitors in the party.

There are many and they should be dealt with in the next election or through money withholding. I for one, will no longer give a dime to a blanket fund, it's purely on a candidate by candidate basis for me for now.

[mod mom]

173. LET THE VOTERS DECIDE, PERIOD.

[Mr_Spock]

217. You are COMPLETELY missing the point. WHY are the Dems undercutting

Hackett???

He is a respectable person and he should be treated with RESPECT!!!!

This undercutting of a good man is not a good precedent to set....

[tallahasseedem]

7. I'm seriously sick to my stomach over this.

We have absolutely no leadership.

[Tesha]

107. Actually, we have leadership. But they're not working in *OUR* interest.

> We have absolutely no leadership.

Actually, we have leadership. But they're not working in *OUR*
interest, they're working in their own self-interest, trying
to satisfy their addictive cravings for power.

Tesha

[WillyT]

11. Yeah... I'm Thinkin About Registering Green This Week, And...

the fucking Democratic Party, my Party (straight ticket since 1974), can fucking EARN MY VOTE FROM NOW FUCKING ON!!!

FUCK!!!

:nuke::argh::nuke::argh::nuke::argh::nuke::argh::nuke::argh::nuke::argh::nuke::argh::nuke:

[libnnc]

12. If this isn't proof positive that the DLC leadership

are complete FUCKING ASSWITTAGE DIPSHITS I don't know what is.

That lawyer dude isn't the only thing that got shot by an asshole this week....

DLCers just shot the PARTY IN THE COLLECTIVE FOOT WITH THIS HAM-FISTED FUCK-UP

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[eridani]

94. The DLC is for "free" trade

Brown has fought for years for Fair Trade. Given the massive loss of Ohio jobs on this account, what is Hackett's position?

[cascadiance]

186. This is proof postitive DLC is about CORPORATE control...

... not centrist or moderate as they are trying to sell themselves as. They want to keep out grass roots candidates for the PEOPLE of all stripes, whether they are liberal or moderate! Mr. DLC Schumer forced us putting in pro-life candidate Casey against Santorum in Pennsylvania, and now he's putting his finger in the Ohio Senate race to reinforce corporate control there my kicking out grass-roots oriented Paul Hackett, even though he's a moderate, because he doesn't toe the corporate fundraising/rules line!

This is B.S.! We need another party to take back America to make it "We the people" again, instead of "We the corporate elite" that it's become!

[DemBones DemBones]

16. This Party is so fucked up. Reid and Schumer and Hillary

and most of the Dems in Congress are chickenshits and GOP Lite to boot.

I'm not voting for any more chickenshit GOP Lite Dems. The only thing I see to do is give money to candidates who are real Democrats, forget giving to the big names or the DNC, which will only support the big name chickenshits.

[cascadiance]

187. GET RID OF THE DLC!!!!!!!

[Armstead]

17. It sucks, but it's not a centrist thing -- Brown is a progressive

The Party Poobahs should have allowed the primary to play itself out and support the winner. But having said that, this is not simply a case of the DLC deciding someone is too radical. In fact, Brown is more radical than Hackett in substance, if not as bombastic in style.


Brown is among the House Democrats who is liberal to the point of progressive. I dunno how Brown will do in the senate race, but if he makes it he would add a much needed liberal/progressive member of the Senate.

[RazzleDazzle]

39. liberal to the point of progressive?

what the hell does that mean?

[Armstead]

86. Progressive is a liberal on steroids

At least that's my definition.

One can be both, but a progressive usually takes the leap towards calling for more fundamental reform tha liberals.

Trying to define it would be another thread altogether. Dick Durbin is a liberal. Bernie Sanders is a progressive.

[RazzleDazzle]

185. You bet that's your definition

and one I don't happen to share. Bet not too many others would either.

[orleans]

44. so who is suppose to take browns place in the house? n/t

[pstans]

21. You have got to be kidding me

:mad:

[question everything]

23. This is too bad. And yet... I am not from Ohio but many here

have praised Brown.

I wish that he could run again Jean Schmidt? - was this her name? - after her bizarre performance about Murtha recently.

[eridani]

95. Brown doesn't live in Mean Jean's district n/t

[question everything]

159. I am sorry, I was not clear. I meant that Hackett could run against her

again and this time beat her and, of course, regain a Democratic Congressional seat

[OzarkDem]

126. Brown is already in Congress

and already has a capable candidate who can keep his seat in OH-13.

[Fredda Weinberg]

26. Brown had already amassed ... 10 times what Mr. Hackett had

Get real

[ISUGRADIA]

71. How deceptive

Most of Brown's "10 times", and that was cash on hand probably, came from his transfer of House campaign funds, not from raising senate funds.

[Kire]

120. And that's illegal how?

[ISUGRADIA]

202. Not illegal at all but trying to say Brown outraised Hackett

10-1 for the SENATE RACE is deceptive when most of Brown's money came from people who donated to his previous House campaigns.

[Fredda Weinberg]

181. Can't we be reasonable about winning strategy?

Party loyalty means accepting leadership's judgment - and this calculus sounds reasonable.

Our opposition has no trouble accepting discipline ... if we want to compete maybe we should try it, instead of waiting for another Watergate to bring our party back to power.

[ISUGRADIA]

203. And the DC leadership has been so successful since 1994

in getting us a majority (2000 was the exception). I thought the Democrats were the people's party but apparently we should be the tools of the "leaders".

[Fredda Weinberg]

218. It's not the Populist Party

I'm not particularly proud of the Democrats, but a one party system isn't healthy.

[OhioBlue]

228. get real indeed

amassed 10 x what Hackett had..... Over how many years???? That is mostly what he already had! The were pretty much even in fundraising for the last quarter!

[Zen Democrat]

27. Actually, from what I've read so far, Hackett is to the right of Brown.

I'm not from Ohio, so I'm not that learned on these candidates, but I've read several things that made it appear that Hackett is more centrist than Brown.

[WilliamPitt]

29. You are correct

[Pachamama]

91. Yes, and Republicans would have voted for Hackett, but not Brown and that

summarizes in a nutshell why Hackett WOULD HAVE BEATEN MIKE DEWINE and why Sherrod Brown WON'T unseat Dewine.

I'm really disappointed all around....I think this is a HUGE mis-calculation on the part of the Dem party....bad move...

[roseBudd]

223. Men would vote for a man named Paul Hackett not someone named Sherrod

[Telly Savalas]

230. So in other words, we should prefer an "electable" candidate

to a progressive one?

[Pachamama]

239. Yes, we should wan't someone who is electable & would win...and

that doesn't have to be exclusive and mean they are also not qualified and would make a good representative of all their constituents. I think Hackett IS PROGRESSIVE and I think he represents what many Americans are looking for: someone who isn't politics as usual - Hackett is not only more electable, he would have made a great Senator and a progressive one at that.

[madfloridian]

30. Read these two blogs, give it a day or so.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/02/hacketts_move_i.html

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

35. I will. From the first link you give though, it seems as one of my pet

peeves are addressed... Paul wasn't rich enough to do it right.

[Armstead]

38. That'd be ideal

Hackett shouod take on Schmidt again. If he won, that case of revenge would be so sweet.

[radio4progressives]

97. But Paul is leaving Politics because of what happened.. so he wouldn't

be running for Brown's House seat..

I'd like for Hackett to run as an Independent, fuck the party machinations and apparatus - if there is ground swell support for Hackett - he can scramble and pull together grassroots volunteer organization to get behind him, maybe even Independent Greens and Progressive Democrats like local PDA chapter people, maybe he can win without these fucking bastards.

By the way, PDA supports Progressive candidates, whether they are in the Democratic party, Green party or Indendepent.

[mzmolly]

220. Very informative MF, thanks for this info.

:hi:

[Beelzebud]

34. Democratic leadership is our biggest problem.

They are so fucking out of touch with normal people, it's pathetic.

[shireen]

37. but why did Hackett give in to those bastards?

I'm not criticizing him for dropping out because I trust his judgement. I'm only trying to understand the pressures that made him arrive at that decision.

Are Schumer and Reid worried he'll be so popular that he'll win the Dem. nomination but lose to the Repub. incumbent in November?

I thought at first that he was trying to be a "good" Democrat: this sacrifice would give him a better shot at future runs for office. But that doesn't make sense because he's now declared that he's leaving politics.

Were Schumer and Reid contacting the people with big purses, business types that may need favors from a future Democratic majority in Congress? So by not supporting Hackett, they are securing future political favors?

Are they worried that Hackett is too smart and honest to be a member of Congress?

Damn them!

This is how the best and the brightest are kept from political office.

This is how we're cheated from true democratic representation by big money influences.

This is just another form of cronyism and corruption.

This IS sickening.

[radio4progressives]

98. they probably told him that they will pull all the support apparatus from

his race and throw it behind Brown.

i think Paul needs to run as an Independent .

[quisp]

43. I'm stunned...

Oh how I wish I belonged to a party that wanted to win...

[d_b]

45. Calling his donors?

That's fuckin' twisted.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

178. I thought so as well.

[tularetom]

46. Ya know what I think?

The Democratic nomination for this Senate seat was promised to Brown a long time before Hackett arrived on the scene and Brown called in his chips with Reid and Schumer. Hopefully Brown will show enough charisma and cojones to defeat a weakened Repub incumbent but I wonder. I liked Hackett the first time I heard him on an ad for the Ed Schultz show call rush limpballs a fat ass drug addict. We can only wonder how he would have described * and cheney.

On the other hand, maybe Hackett has too thin a skin for this if he lets a couple of turds like Schumer and Reid chase him off.

[lastliberalintexas]

55. If what you suppose is actually true,

would you even care to have Mr. Brown in the Senate? If what you say is true, he would simply be another politician, rather than a leader, and would probably just be more baggage for our party.

I have no opinion on the 2 men myself, so I am not asserting that this is true. I do have an incredible problem with the party machine choosing the candidate rather than actual primary voters, though.

[tularetom]

68. No I'd rather have any Dem than any pub

well except for zell miller and holy joe. I hear good things about Brown. I think he'd make a good progressive senator, I just wonder if he has the stomach for a tough maybe even dirty general election campaign.

[OzarkDem]

115. The voters were already weighing in

Hackett was behind in the polls and losing support.

Brown is an excellent candidate, a true liberal. Anyone who thinks they need to bash him without looking at his record doesn't deserve to call themselves a Democrat.

[converted_democrat]

131. I'm sure Brown is a great Liberal, but Librals can't win in Ohio..

Hackett has appeal to both parties.. He would've taken votes from both sides.. Brown won't, and we will lose Ohio.

[Telly Savalas]

231. So supporting "electibility" over progressive politics

has become the new DU orthodoxy?

[converted_democrat]

243. Hey, I can only speak for myself, but I like to win..

I was born and raised in Ohio.. Brown does not have a snowballs chance in hell of carrying Ohio.. The numbers just aren't there. Hackett has already shown that he can pull votes from the right and the left.. Brown can't do it.. There is a no way that Brown can carry Ohio, the numbers just aren't there.. Brown already has the term "liberal" tattooed to his backside in Ohio.. The moderates won't vote for him, and you have to have the moderates on your side to win in Ohio.. It really is that simple.. Brown can't pull votes from the moderates, and thus can't win Ohio.. Mark my words.. We just assured the pukes a win..

I personally think Brown is a great guy with a great voting record, but he doesn't have the juice to get it done in Ohio.. Moderates don't vote for Liberals.. Anyone on the fence will now go to Dewine.. Mark my words.

[paulk]

196. a lot of them aren't Democrats...

they're third party provocateurs


and worse

[WildEyedLiberal]

47. How is urging the progressive Brown to run "appeasing centrists"?

Brown is far more liberal than Hackett. Hackett's main credential was calling Bush a son of a bitch. I think it's shady of them to ask him to run and them ask him to withdraw so I understand your anger, but let's stop with the DLC conspiracy crap - Brown is a solid pro-labor liberal Democrat.

[orleans]

48. i just sent malloy an email asking his thoughts on this

he's talking about it now

[Douglas Carpenter]

49. Mr. Brown is a member of the Progressive Caucus with strong progressive

record. Nothing against Mr. Hackett.

Representative Brown is at least as liberal as Sen. Kennedy or Sen. Feingold

courtesy of vote smart - link:
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=H3141103&type=category&category=Foreign%2BAid%2Band%2BPolicy%2BIssues&go.x=12&go.y=8

2006 In 2006 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 In 2005 Citizens for Global Solutions gave Representative Brown a rating of A.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Council on American-Islamic Relations 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs (WRMEA) 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Peace Action 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 84 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 96 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Council of La Raza 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 77 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 90 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the National Education Association 89 percent in 2003-2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Postal Workers Union 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 88 percent of the time.

2004 On the votes that the Service Employees International Union considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Communications Workers of America 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 On the votes that the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers considered to be the most important in 2003-2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95 percent in 2004.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 On the votes that the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance considered to be the most important in 2004, Representative Brown voted their preferred position 100 percent of the time.

2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Brown supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 94 percent in 2003-2004.

2004 In 2004 National Organization for Women endorsed Representative Brown.

2005 Representative Brown supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

[mod mom]

132. MR BROWN IS SEEN AS A NORTHERN LIBERAL. Hackett proved he could draw Repu

votes(in the 02 district) and still appeal to progressives like me.

Ohio's election system is corrupt. The only way to win would be with a huge victory, which means we would have to draw Republicans away. Thanks to the Dems, who didn't feel they could trust Dem voters to decide, we just handed the GOP and Dewine a victory.

[thatsrightimirish]

50. This is truly disappointing

However, I strongly suggest that we don't flee Brown because we need that senate seat.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

51. For the Brown apologists:

If you read the post, I never called Brown a centrist... I never mentioned him.

I am talking about the way that the party treated an up and comer.

A person outside of politics who had a good message and what seemed like integrity.

The fact that the Dem machine is acting like a machine.

[Catrina]

66. I'm with you!! What right does the party leadership have (btw, when did

Schumer assume this role?) the right to tell the people who they should support?

Look at this:

He said he was outraged to learn that party leaders were calling his donors and asking them to stop giving and said he would not enter the Second District Congressional race.

How DARE they do such an underhanded thing, knowing that people had already donated to him. That shows a complete lack of respect for the people!! Which, btw, from my one encounter with Schumer, (my senator) doesn't at all surprise me. I was not impressed with his arrogant attitude.

As for Brown being more liberal?? How will that help him win in Ohio?? Hackett was able to attract moderate Republicans, even though he was liberal on issues they normally don't go along with. But for some reason, they LIKED him enough to help him nearly beat Schmidt.

That does it for me, and if Brown has any decency, and he knows what they did to Hackett, he will not go along with it ~ if he does, then I think I know all I want to know about him. He should have been OUTRAGED that they undermined a man who has put so much effort into this race.

I hope he runs as an Independent. If he doesn't and Brown loses the Senate seat, and his seat in Congress goes to a Republican (which in Ohio could easily happen) that's TWO seats lost ~ brilliant thinking on behalf of the 'leadership'.

They will have so angered Demcrats with this behavior, that they will lose Dem votes also ~ what a disaster ~ I am totally sick of this, each time the people choose a candidate they like, these morons deny them the right to choose.

Just like 2004! This Party WANTS to lose. I'm convinced of it now.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

69. This party is like any other party in the past...

Sold to the highest bidders.

It's time to either reorganise or start over with a new name.

[OzarkDem]

141. Up and comers don't win senate races in Ohio

unless your name is John Glenn.

Hackett was losing, he was falling waaay behind Sherrod. He was terrible and inexperienced on the campaign trail, he knew nothing about issues other than Iraq.

Once voters got a look at him in person, they knew he wasn't ready.

[rg302200]

167. Show me a poll

You keep saying that but, have failed to back it up....

[OhioBlue]

229. funny you mention John Glenn

www.oh02.com has comments from Glenn before Hackett's announcment. The "powers that be" thought it would have been good for Glenn to drop out too. so wise......

[Kukesa]

238. Neither do Democrats. nt

[budkin]

52. CONTACT HACKETT HERE

Tell him not to leave the party and that we support him!

http://www.hackettforohio.com/page/s/contact

[Roxy66]

62. Done!!!

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

89. I did, and told him I would follow and support him regardless of whether

he stayed in or left the Democratic Party.

[BigBearJohn]

53. Hackett is the only candidate I donated to. I'm finished now. No more $$$

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

54. That's the only message that will get through...

There's a helluva base here that they don't think they'll lose.

[Edgewater_Joe]

81. You Like Throwing Money At Phonies Like Hackett?

Then you're a fool.

Suck it up and grow up. He could've taken Schmitt, but he turned tail.

Good riddance to rotten garbage, I say.

[Nothing Without Hope]

57. In "honor" of this BETRAYAL - here are THREE ***CARTOONS*** re DEMS:

In “honor” of this betrayal, here are some cartoons which capture the essence of the fiery, effective Dem leadership to which Paul Hackett’s Ohio senatorial candidacy, apparently his entire frigging political career, and our hopes in him are being sacrificed.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

60. Ouch! Truth hurts.

[Azathoth]

63. This has nothing to do with polls or "appeasing centrists"

This has to do with being one of the good ol boys. Sherrod Brown is an insider; he's made his bones with the Democratic establishment, and they know he won't rock the boat. Hackett is an outsider (and a rather outspoken one). This is nothing but Beltway politics.

[eridani]

96. Was that the same Dem establishment that passed NAFTA in the 90s?

Brown fought hard against it.

[Azathoth]

221. What does that have to do with anything?

Good for Brown that he took an honest stand on a particular issue. I'm sure that he's supported over his long political career more than a few positions that were generally unpopular with the Democratic establishment. That doesn't change his status as an insider. He's put his time in inside the Beltway, made his bones, rubbed shoulders, done deals, and gotten his shoulders rubbed in return. As I said, it's not a matter of political ideology. It's a matter of Beltway politics. Brown is on the in with the power players, Hackett is not.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

64. It's interesting that the pro DNC/DLC thread has more posts and less Recs

than this thread.

[Catrina]

73. I tried to recommend this thread but couldn't ~ it said I had already done

so even though I had not!! That's the third time today that happened. Does it have something to do with buying hearts? I can't afford to do that right now!

I wonder how many more popular candidates they will stop from running? I am afraid to support anyone at all now. It seems when a candidate is popular with the people, it's the kiss of death from the Party ~

[Mythsaje]

76. Same with mine, for that matter, Tom.

:shrug:

[Clarkie1]

72. The Democratic leadership lacks balls, decency, respect, and patriotism.

The way the dishonorable Democratic "leadership" has treated this man of honor is an outrage, but most of all it's just pathetic and sad. Americans will not respect the Democratic Party until Democrats start respecting and defending Democrats.

Clark has said the Democratic Party may be replaced by another party this century...perhaps even in the coming decades if it does not change it's ways in a way that appeals to Americans.

He's right. Today one more nail was nailed in the Party's potential coffin...

"Mr. Hackett said he was unwilling to run for the Congressional seat because he had GIVEN HIS WORD to three Democratic candidates that he would not enter that race.

"The party keeps saying for me NOT TO WORRY ABOUT THESE PROMISES because in politics they are broken all the time," said Mr. Hackett, who plans to return to his practice as a lawyer in the Cincinnati area. "I DON'T WORK THAT WAY. MY WORD IS MY BOND."

Jennifer Duffy, who analyzes Senate races for the Cook Political Report, said that part of what made Democratic leaders nervous about Mr. Hackett was what had also made him so popular with voters.

"Hackett is seen by many as a STRAIGHT TALKER, and he became an icon to the liberal bloggers because he says exactly what they have wished they would hear from a politician," Ms. Duffy said. "On the other hand, the SENATE IS STILL AN EXCLUSIVE CLUB, and the PARTY EXPECTS A CERTAIN LEVEL OF DECORUM that Hackett has not always shown."

Mr. Hackett was widely criticized last year for using indecent language to describe President Bush. Last month, state Republicans attacked Mr. Hackett for saying their party had been hijacked by religious extremists who he said "aren't a whole lot different than Osama bin Laden."

Though Republicans called for an apology, Mr. Hackett repeated the mantra of his early campaign: "I said it. I meant it. I stand behind it."

Fuck them and their "decorum." This man deserved better. Much better.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

74. They're caught in the process of becoming the other half instead of the

other party.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

75. .

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

77. .

.... ... ....... .. ... ...... ..

[Edgewater_Joe]

78. Grow Up And Stop Supporting Paul "Can't" Hackett

That's right -- you read that: Paul Hackett is a COWARD.

He could've done a Hell of a lot of good beating Schmitt in a race he would've absolutely won in a hardcore Republican district, bring Hackett with him, and been an absolute hero poised to really change the party. And my guess is that the three Democratic candidates would've seen it and stepped aside for Hackett rather than fight in a primary there.

But NO -- instead, Hackett invokes "honor" of "his word" instead of realizing that HIS COUNTRY NEEDED HIM.

And as a result, now he makes that seat easier for the horrible Schmitt to hold -- and maybe sabotage Brown's race because guys like you have decided to be a hero worshipper to a guy who, by pussing out and not fighting when he said he would.

Write Hackett. See if he'll change his mind. But don't go crying about how this breaks your trust in the Democratic Party. As problematic as they are, they knew damn well that beating Schmitt was as important as beating DeWine. They may have made stupid promises towards his Senate run, but I can't imagine they thought he'd turn tail because of it.

Put your disappointment where it belongs: at the feet of Paul (Can't) Hackett.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

80. Shilling

Operatives.

They're here.

[Edgewater_Joe]

83. You Think I Work For The Dems?

You don't know a damn thing about me -- and with that kind of knee-jerk reaction, it doesn't surprise me that you're reacting with the same tears-first weepiness as your phony hero turned out to be.

In about a month you'll realize what you did and you'll be ashamed of yourself for having been duped by Hackett. Maybe then we can have a mature conversation.

But that's obviously not going to happen for awhile.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

85. "tears-first weepiness as your phony hero turned out to be.

Wow.... You ought to write for radio!

[lastliberalintexas]

100. Irony, thy name is...

"Maybe then we can have a mature conversation."


And I don't think anyone implied that you worked for the *Dems*.

[Clarkie1]

82. You lost me with "Paul Hackett is a coward."

You been to Iraq?

The rest of your post isn't worth reading.

[Edgewater_Joe]

84. If Hackett Wants Us Out Of Iraq, He'd Run Against Schmitt

But instead he's leaving politics -- that's called "being a coward."

If you want to be ignorant, so be it.

[radio4progressives]

99. oh yeah like Schmidt is keeping us in Iraq.. oh puhleeze. n/t

[Atman]

108. You sure know how to miss a point!

I think it is pretty clear OP did not mean, nor was trying to infer, that Jean Schmidt is keeping us in Iraq. Why is the point of all this so difficult to understand? Strategically, the leadership wanted TWO SEATS it could win handily, and Hackett's withdrawing and running for Congress instead could have/would have accomplished that goal. It was a strategic decision. This is war. The troops in the trenches aren't always at the best vantage point to see the larger picture.

[Hippo_Tron]

214. Leadership should've supporting Hackett for the house last August

The district was a longshot in a special election and an even bigger longshot in a regular election. Jean Schmidt was a turd back when she was running and the voters of the district knew it when they voted for her. The fact that she made a fool of herself on national television and now the rest of America knows that she's a turd doesn't change jack shit in the Ohio 2nd. If the DCCC had helped Hackett last August we wouldn't even be having this debate because Congressman Hackett would be kicking off his re-election campaign.

[Adelante]

219. DCCC did help him last August

My memory is shot to shit, but I do remember them paying for GOTV robocalling by Clark last August, so I thought they had come on board with him.

[Hippo_Tron]

234. They helped at the very last minute

But it was widely noted by bloggers for quite a few months that the DCCC wasn't supporting him. Had they been on board all along I believe that, that could have been the difference with the few thousand more votes that he needed to win.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

114. I think that's going a bit too far.

I'm certainly not in the lets-burn-down-the-national-party camp. I'm disappointed that Hackett decided not to run against Schmidt, but maybe he's just not cut out for politics. It's a tough game, and not everybody can or wants to play it. I'm sorry to see him go. He probably could have beat Schmidt. Might have even made a decent Congressman. Definitely would've been better than Schmidt.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled ideological purge of the Democratic Party. :)

[against all enemies]

192. Gee Joe, did you blame Harry for Cheney shooting him too.

[Hippo_Tron]

213. Yup a guy who serves his country in a war is a coward

Have fun backing that one up...

[OneBlueSky]

87. no wonder Democrats can't win elections . . .

find a fresh face who's generating enough interest to garner support and contributions from across the country, and then tell him he shouldn't run . . . stupid, stupid, stupid . . .

and make no mistake . . . the real reason they want him out is that he's too progressive, and he just might win . . .

[Greyhound]

88. Even when we get what we ask for, they take it away. It's a shitty way to

treat a person, and everybody knows it. It's as if they were trying to sabotage him on purpose.

[LittleClarkie]

90. But Brown is the progressive and Hackett was the centrist.

And I sort of agree that a brand newbie would be better off in the House first. Why would being against the war automatically qualify someone to jump to the top? Surely if he wants to get into politics, it's better to get involved locally first, then within the state, THEN nationally.

I've heard good things about Brown, with the main strike against him being that he was NOT Hackett.

[Charlie Brown]

93. I didn't care for Hackett's call to deport illegal workers

the Hackett apologists were out in force here justifying his stance on that, and I don't think a lot of them were objectively considering what he would stand for should he get in office.

I'm not sure if a lot of the organizations that make up Democratic coalitions (labor unions, educators, civil rights groups, etc.) would endorse someone without a political track record, either.

Hackett deserves credit for opposing the war and supporting gay marriage (a bold move for anyone running in Ohio), but you have to have positions on all sorts of issues to form a viable campaign. And if Hackett had managed to get the nomination (after a very dirty primary with Brown), he would have been slammed day-after-day by DeWine as too inexperienced and "too liberal" (gay marriage, etc.). If he had slipped even once (not a real slip, but just something the press could blow out of proportion, like the Dean Scream) it would have killed his chances. Brown's record in office may be a valuable asset to deflect those kinds of attacks.

We may not win this race, but I'm not convinced that Hackett would have fared any better than Brown in the post-primary candidacy. The back-room deals and phone-calls by the DNC is nothing compared to what DeWine will unleash against whoever runs against him. The Republicans in Ohio will stoop to any level to keep this seat, and I'd advise anyone following this race to put this behind them and get behind Brown for the real battle that will be fought.

[lastliberalintexas]

101. That was a choice for Ohio primary voters

If they wanted him to start at out as the local dog catcher, they would have told him so by nominating Brown instead. But in an amazing show of democratic ideals, they weren't given the chance, thanks to our party "leaders".

I think they both sounded pretty good, and it would have been a tough choice for the voters. We have the same kind of decision down here in our governor's race between Gammage and Bell- thankfully the party hasn't kicked either of them out. Not yet anyway.

[Katherine Brengle]

92. fucking bastards... n/t

[spuddonna]

102. This is terrible...

What a ham fisted mess... They called his donors and asked them to stop giving??! un-frickin-believeable... If the Dem leadership wanted to "manage" this campaign so much from the outset, why did they wait until now to push him out!? Why not deal with it when Brown said he was getting into the race? Why not tell him "we'll pull your funding" upfront?

I keep hearing that people want Paul to run for the House seat, but as has already said, "Mr. Hackett said he was unwilling to run for the Congressional seat because he had given his word to three Democratic candidates that he would not enter that race.... The party keeps saying for me not to worry about those promises because in politics they are broken all the time," said Mr. Hackett, who plans to return to his practice as a lawyer in the Cincinnati area. "I don't work that way. My word is my bond."

I will not be surprised if Hackett does not run, as he promised that he wouldn't. And what a loss for our party if he decides to leave politics...

We are fighting against a party rife with corruption. We beg and plead for men and women of ethics to step forward and fight on our behalf. We're dying for our Senators and House Reps to speak truth to power, and then when we find someone who does that, the leadership tells them "You need to step aside. We have other plans..."

Unbelieveable...

[frustrated_lefty]

104. To the DLC/DNC cheerleading squad:

self-congratulatory claptrap regarding the keen insight and political savviness shown by the party leaders in this instance is unwarranted.

They appear like indecisive, bumbling idiots right off the bat for encouraging Hackett to run, flip-flopping, and then deciding "oops, we REALLY meant we wanted Brown, so sorry." The motivation behind the party leadership's choice also is in question. Was this a decision made in the best interest of the American people? or in the best interest of the party leadership? Believe it or not, those two interests are not one and the same. You have to wonder sometimes, which of those interests holds the foremost allegiance of the party leadership?

This is, of course, the same leadership which most recently gave us supreme court justice Alito. Exactly whose best interest are they acting in again?

-fl

[Montagnard]

109. What a major FUBAR

This is not going to help Sherrod Brown or the Democrats win control of the Senate. I can hear the Ohio pugs crying that out-of-staters are trying to pick the Senator for Ohio. Not good, not good. What in the name of hell is the party thinking?

[tlsmith1963]

110. They are Just as Bad as the Republicans!

First Rove threatens Republican Congresspeople, & now this. This is why it is so important to lessen the role money plays in politics. It wasn't like this in the past. I even remember when the Democrats used to have *telethons* on TV to raise money! I want things to be like that again. Both parties are way too greedy, & the American people suffer as a result.

Tammy

[OzarkDem]

111. Ohio Dem voters made this decision

Hackett was 20 points behind in the polls. While he's a decent guy, supporters like you really turned people off. Save it for the Republicans.

[Vinca]

119. Isn't there a primary in Ohio? Shouldn't anyone be able to run?

If Hackett loses at the polls in the primary, that's one thing. To be strong-armed out of the race is another. Let the voters speak for a change.

[OzarkDem]

128. Hackett was 20 points behind in the polls

He wasn't going to win the primary.

[Twist_U_Up]

162. No he wasnt

http://rightangleblog.blogspot.com/2005/11/sherrod-brown-campaign-says-doh.html

find the poll at bottom right

[Nikia]

199. Yes, regardless the voters should have had a chance to decide

In the primary. Whether or not you agree with a candidate, the party shouldn't treat any candidate like this. There is a primary election for a reason.

[Freddie Stubbs]

242. He certainly should, but he chickened out

He could have run, but apperently he was afraid ot take on Brown without the party backing him.

[mod mom]

191. The PRIMARIES are where we Dems cast our choice. How many participate in

polls? I never have, but always voote.

[Mass]

117. Which centrists? Hackett IS a centrist. Brown is a progressive.

It is amazing how people misread who people are. If Hackett drops off politics because of that, that means he was not ready for it. He should run against mean Jean, as Emmanuel offered. I can understand he is disappointed, but if he cant take this disappointment, I am disappointed and will not believe he can fight for it. (BTW, if Hackett thinks it is always easy to run, may be he should call Kerry or a few other VietNam vets who made it and ask if their first races was helped by the establishment - not exactly).

[MrBenchley]

121. What a prima donna....

He's never been elected to anything...and Representative is beneath him?

[MoonRiver]

129. UNBELIEVABLE!

After Senate Dems blocked the Kerry/Kennedy filibuster of Alito, I went to my local courthouse and changed my affiliation from Democrat to none. Looks like I made the correct decision. :thumbsdown: to this sh$#t.

[iconoclastNYC]

134. Cry me a river. Please.

Politicians get fucked over all the time. Hackett's really pissing me off with his belly aching.

And of course all the usual suspects are outraged and dragging the DNC's name thru the mud over this.

Listen, it was a raw deal that Brown waffled on wanting to run, but it's his fault not the fault of the entire party.

Enough with the chicken little crap. Focus on what matters.

[Cascadian]

136. Why couldn't the people of Ohio pick whoever?

The actions of the Beltway Democrats aren't very "Democratic" in my opinion. I am really disturbed by this recent action. It almost reminds me of when Howard Dean got pushed aside but only more subtle. Paul Hackett would have been an excellent choice as a Senator.


John

[dogday]

143. This is what I know

Hackett has it. He has what it takes to take it the distance. Looks, personality, service and honesty. He gave them a run for their money in a heavy republican district.

The Dems need to learn how to keep their best people as well, or they won't have nothing special in the party to run...

[Peggy Day]

144. Just a thought-didn't he cuss a lot? Some people don't like that.

[lonestarnot]

149. Fuck that!

[dogday]

147. Read More Here

NEW YORK - Iraq war veteran Paul Hackett, who gained popularity for his staunch criticism of President Bush, has dropped out of the Democratic race for U.S. Senate in Ohio, according to a published report.

Hackett told The New York Times for Tuesday's editions that the same party leaders who urged him to run for Senate after his political debut in a House race last year had turned on him.

"This is an extremely disappointing decision that I feel has been forced on me," Hackett said.

<snip>

"For me, this is a second betrayal," Hackett said. "First, my government misused and mismanaged the military in Iraq, and now my own party is afraid to support candidates like me."

</snip>

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060214/ap_on_re_us/senate_hackett_2

[brainshrub]

150. This country needs a 3rd party.

Maybe Hackett will run as a Green?

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

154. I think we need a completely new party. Not Greens or Libertarians..

But the type of Party Huey Long would have created emphasizing power to the common man.

(Please don't take this as an endorsement of Long, but he did have some good ideas)

[Ganja Ninja]

158. What the hell are primary elections for?

I don't understand why the Democratic party is making the decision of who to run instead of letting the process play out.:wtf:

[Norquist Nemesis]

163. Just heard about this. Looks like, once again, it boils down to MONEY

vs. the PEOPLE (voters). From the pieces I'm reading, the "Brown is gold" in the State is measured, literally, by his ability to raise funds.

Call me naive, but it seems to me that a well connected Congressman would have a network of $upporter$ to call on versus a political newbie who has to build it. :shrug: Not to mention that buds in Washington are backing through leadership PACS.

It just doesn't seem that the Democratic Leadership is listening to the voters, and as much as it pisses me off, it is having the more harmful effect of leading me to say, "Why bother!?!? Why bother giving money, donating time, or even voting?!?"

Maybe the voters in Ohio can get Hackett to run as an Independent (or write-in). :shrug:

[helderheid]

165. DAMNIT.

[Strawman]

168. I have mixed feelings: prefer Brown, but this is a slap to the netroots

I'm not totally familiar with the specific positions of each candidate on the issues, but from what I know Brown is to the left of Hackett and probably closer to my point of view.

But there are other issues in play here besides the "issues." Like many have said, this is also about power. Hackett was the darling of the netroots and had all that energy behind him and the impression one gets is that that energy was just sort of dismissed by the power brokers in the party. They want to harness the power of the netroots, but the want to do it on their terms and it just deflates the whole thing. They want to send you an email and tell you to give them money. They want to send you an online poll accompanied by a request for money. They don't really care what you say, it's just a ruse to prime you to contribute.

Now you can point the finger at Hackett and say that he's the one making an issue out of this and is some sort of attention whore egomaniac, and that may or may not be true. I don't know enough about the guy's personality to venture a guess. But even if that is true, the party leaders should have know this was coming and managed this situation better. They don't realize that they could ultimately have greater power by handing over some control to the netroots in this instance. They really bungled this and I think they've undermined the netroots.

[mod mom]

174. THIS IS A SLAP TO THE VOTERS OF OHIO. CAN'T WE BE TRUSTED IN CHOOSING?

That's what primaries are for. As an Ohio voter I am APPALLED at the Dem Party decision. This helps third party candidate outs A LOT!

[Strawman]

177. That happens all the time though

Party bigwigs decide who they want to throw their support behind in a Senate primary race and they do it. This case is different though. It's more about what happens inside the party before the primary. Hackett had alot of buzz and netroots support. Brown probably had the support of more traditional constituencies and bases that wield power within the party (like the unions).

There's a couple different ways you can look at it and both, I think, have some merit. On the one had, you can say, hey netroots this is how politics is played. You can't expect the other interest groups within the party to just hand over power and cry like Hackett did when they don't. He has his base of support and he could have chosen to fight these traditional interests when they decided to work against him.

On the other hand I think the party leaders have pissed away something unique here. They could have at least stayed neutral and seen how far Hackett's netroots support and nontraditional approach would carry him. Instead it sounds like they decided to crush it and defer to the traditional constituencies where pressure for Brown was probably coming from. I think that is a mistake.

So ultimately, I agree with you. A primary would be a better way to decide. Another case of fear of the Republicans dictating how we act. The losing primary candidate's attacks might give DeWine ammo for the General election. So what? If you're right answer those attacks and go on the attack yourself. I would contend that it would be better to risk that than to deflate and de-energize a significant proportion of your potential base by "managing" the process in the way that they're doing.

[OhioBlue]

209. I agree with you.

This was an appalling act for the Dem Bosses to pull. I don't know why we dontate time and money to "make a change". I'm sure I'll calm down in a few days, but today I feel like I'm going Green.

[dooner]

175. I just donated to his campaign - yesterday!

Why should he bow to the party?

[Warren DeMontague]

180. Hackett committed a few cardinal sins, as I see it:

He actually spoke the truth about the religious nuts and extremists who have taken over the GOP,

He called the folks opposed to full, equal citizenship for gays and lesbians exactly what they are - unamerican BIGOTS...

He refused to apologize, kowtow, or back down.






Folks, we better take our party back, and soon. Because these 'conventional wisdom' pinheads have written the script for the next several years, and it's a recipie for more and more of the same old crap.

[insane_cratic_gal]

183. In other words he won't fall inline and DLC

a vote

[blm]

184. Hey Tom - Brown is more liberal than Hackett. I liked both men but you

there is NO WAY you can pretend that Hackett was to the left of Brown.

Hackett spoke in fiery terms which WE prefer, but Brown had the voting record and positions that MOST progressives prefer.

If you were a serious progressive you would have known that by now.

[LittleClarkie]

194. 'tude trumps politics, near as I can tell

Some folks preferred Dean, even though Kerry was more liberal, and Dean was fairly centrist. I guess if you're fiery, then it's okay to be a centrist.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

204. If the roles were reversed, I'd be just as pissed. It's the fact that

he was "forced" out of the race.

Peace.

[Jacobin]

188. We have met the enemy and it is our erstwhile party

That just about fucking cinches it for me.

[fearnobush]

190. Fuck You Democratic Leadershit. Hackett already won that race.

You must be fucking GOP lite to pull this unbelievable crap.

[WilliamPitt]

195. "Hackett already won that race."

Rilly? Rilly rilly? How?

[fearnobush]

205. It was not a literal statement

I wrote it out of frustration and based it off of my feelings toward his near victory and my statement was just an assumption that if he can come within a few points in a heavy GOP district, he could likely win the state in a landslide - minus Diebold of course. My frustration lies in what I see as the Party's inability to allow the chips to fall as they may during the primary process. We had 9 candidates for nomination in 04, why can't Ohio have 2 for 06?

[Czolgosz]

198. heartbreaking!

[Kolesar]

201. Hackett was not ready to run for Senate

He had a small organization and scant experience campaigning or planning a campaign. He did not know the issues. He changed his position on his signature issue--Iraq--several times (admit it). The gop would have run him over in November. One slip--you're dead.

His only chance was if Dewine died in office. Hackett had nothing to lose here by being a placeholder through the election, but once the polls showed the gop boy was in trouble, this opportunity was too important to leave to a greenhorn. This is going to be a pickup.

If you don't like what I am saying, well too bad. I have been following this race and I know how campaigns go in Ohio. I am glad he left so we can start dealing with reality now.

[Hippo_Tron]

212. So did Paul Wellstone

All of that aside best of luck to Sherrod Brown. If he wins in November I will celebrate the victory of a progressive democrat and another democratic seat in the US Senate. If he loses I will simply say "Ha, ha, ha" to those who said that he could win and Hackett could not.

[Kolesar]

224. Paul Wellstone was a professor of political science

He spent a career preparing to run for office.

[eridani]

227. That is less relevant than--

--the 17,000 volunteers he had. Well-organized, well-used, and 100% from Minnesota.

[Hippo_Tron]

235. I don't think he spent a career preparing to run for office

He spent a career teaching an un-conventional approach to politics. Eventually he decided that he would apply this approach. He considered running for political office a few years before, but I don't think that it was his intention from the very start.

[Kolesar]

240. Hackett was absolutely unprepared to run for office as a trial atty

Wellstone at least knew what he was doing in running for office (and that is an understatement).

[sunnystarr]

206. I really liked Hackett .... but ...

frankly I think he should have run for the House. Each state gets only 2 Senators and I'd like to think that the candidate knows something about Congress and the Senate and how to get things done. Hackett, while saying all those lovely things that were music to our ears, is to me more of a loose cannon. We like what he has to say but have no idea of what he'd do -- and it takes more than talk to walk that walk and be effective. I understand that Hackett has a right to be upset since when he got into the race Brown said he wasn't going run and then later changed his mind. Could be someone in the party convinced Brown to throw his hat in the race believing that Hackett wouldn't be able to carry the state.

However like it or not there are rules in politics and you have to know how to work within those rules. There are times you sacrifice your own ambition for the good of the whole -- so that a goal can be reached -- knowing that you'll be rewarded with the support you need for the right spot for you.

We're quick to jump all over the administration, and rightly so, for appointing people who have no experience for the appointed position ... Brownie was a good example, but there are a lot of Brownies. We sure as hell need one branch of Congress where experience and wisdom guides us. The Senate was designed to protect us from the tyranny of the majority and our founders believed Senators should be appointed not elected. We should at least elect people who have experience in government to the Senate and Senate hopefuls can get that experience in the House or high levels of state government.

Hackett was ready to throw in the towel on politics after losing that close election when Mean Jean pulled her fast one. Now he's ready to throw in the towel on politics because his ambitions are more important than getting a Dem to replace DeWine. I don't like quitters who, when they don't get their own way, pick up their marbles and go home. All he accomplished by making his statements was to let everyone see how wet behind the ears he really is when it comes to politics.

I also believe that Cindy Sheehan should have run for the House, she's certainly not ready to be a Senator. Flame away, but when you do please realize that I really like both Cindy and Paul and have contributed to both.

[Hippo_Tron]

215. Paul Wellstone had very little experience in politics

But he was smart enough to pick up on how things work there very quickly.

If you were talking about an executive position like Governor or President where life and death decisions are made then I would agree that prior experience would be a very good thing. But a US Senator works in the long term and doesn't make life and death decisions and thus there is time for someone new to the job to learn the ropes. Again, I noted that Wellstone was smart enough to pick up on things very quickly and I'm noting that that is one of the key parts of this. Not everyone is cut out to be a US Senator but I think that Hackett certainly is.

BTW, if you had heard Hackett on Ed Schultz today, you would know that he is very interested in seeing that Sherrod Brown beats DeWine in November. He said that, that was one of the reasons (although a minor one) that led him to drop our ot the race. So I think that your statement about his ambitions being more important than getting a Dem to replace DeWine are way off.

[sunnystarr]

244. I don't find the comparison valid

Wellstone:

In 1965 he earned his B.A., and four years later was awarded a Ph.D. in Political Science. Wellstone's 1969 doctoral dissertation at UNC was "Black Militants in the Ghetto: Why They Believe in Violence."

During the 1970s, he became involved in community organizing, working with the working poor and other politically disenfranchised communities. The first organization he founded was the Organization for a Better Rice County, a group consisting mainly of single parents on welfare, which he organized to advocate for public housing, affordable health care, improved public education, free school lunches, and a publicly-funded day care center. During this same period, he also began organizing with union members, farmers, and liberal activists. Later, he would use these connections in his bid for the Senate.

He went on to become a professor of political science at Carleton College in Northfield, Minnesota, where he taught for 21 years until 1990. In 1982, he ran for state auditor, but lost to Arne Carlson. In 1988, he was the Minnesota campaign manager for Jesse Jackson's Presidential campaign.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wellstone

Hackett:

Hackett was elected to the city council of Milford, Ohio, a city in Clermont and Hamilton Counties, in 1995 to replace Chris Imbus, who was recalled from office by a vote of 410 to 86. In the recall election on May 2, he defeated businessman Jacques E. Smith by a vote of 388 to 81. On the Milford council, he opposed efforts to rezone a parcel of land in order to retain the Milford post office within the city limits. He resigned from the council in September 1998 to devote more time to his family and his law practice and was replaced on the council by James Gradolf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hackett

Of course they both share the same first name. However, notice that Hackett didn't finish his term on the city council and the reason given sounds a bit lame. It's that willingness to leave it when things don't go his way that disturbs me. Very little in politics goes the way a politician wants. So while he rates an 11 on the Hunk scale, has a great delivery, and says what I like, what he doesn't do is demonstrate an unwavering commitment to the people in his district or state. He's just too willing to throw in the towel and get back to making the big bucks. Wellstone on the other hand knew where he was going and only death stopped him from getting there.

[Maven]

207. Well, of course.

There was someone good-looking with principles who knew how to communicate them to people--of course he had to be eliminated!

Silly.

(We're all fucked.)

[Deja Q]

222. AT LEAST THE REPUBLICANS STAND BEHIND THEIR OWN.

This turn of events raises plenty of eyebrows.

[oscarguy]

225. I too, am very disappointed Re: What you Discussed. Please do not give up

on the Democratic Party. It seems to me to be the only force within our Nation that has any real hope of ending this nightmare we all have to live with. Keep hope alive and fight on. What other choice do we have? ...Oscar

[misternormal]

226. Stinks of Cronyism n/t

[mhr]

233. One More Reason The Party Is Dead.

eom

[femrap]

236. blah blah blah....poor widdle paul...

I'm so tired of the neophyte dems. All of a sudden you discover politics....whoopee! Paul is a centrist....Brown is the Progressive.

Are the people of Ohio so damn stupid they don't know how to analyze a candidate by what he says or his voting record?

No wonder everyone is leaving Ohio...I can't believe I was born and raised here.

Wake up Ohio.....Brown is a REAL DEMOCRAT....OR DO YOU WANT TO ELECT A PUG LITE?

Here's what a neighbor of Hackett's has to say...........


1. How much money did Hackett raise by telling his contributors that he would not cut and run from the Senate race? His word is his bond, indeed!

2. Now that the quitter has left the race, how much money is he going to give back to the people who believed he was telling them the truth when they donate monty to his campaign?

3. Hackett should know about behind the scenes machinations because he was involved in many of them when he ran for Congress! He was very comfortable sitting in the smoke-filled rooms when the local Party bosses cut the deal to demonize and defame his primary opponents, like Charles Sanders, and promote him. Now that the tables have turned and Sherrrod Brown is the Party's goldenboy, Hackett wants to moan and groan about how unfair the Dems have been to him.

4. Come on! We know why Hackett's statement had a release date of Feb. 9. It's because Hackett knew back then that he was going to quit the race but let his supporters hang on. (I'm sure he collected quite a bit of cash during the last 4 days, too.)

5. What has Hackett done for the Democratic Party? I may not like Mike DeWine, but at least I know some of what he did for the GOP before he decided to run for Senate. He was a County Prosecutor and Lt. Gov. What's with these Dems like Hackett who think they can go from his mansion in Indian Hill and serving on the Milford City Council to a seat in the Senate?!

I'm glad Hackett is out of politics. I just hope he STAYS OUT!

 

[kid a]

237. nice speculative fiction - funny too

[Snivi Yllom]

241. this makes perfect sense

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