"It's just an expression."

[Touchdown]

What comes to your mind when someone says these "expressions"?

"You throw like a girl!"
"Damn! You got gypped."
"What an Indian giver!"
"He wanted $20, but I jewed him down to $10."
"You don't have to be so niggardly about it."<- Alright! Enough already! I take it back. It's a legitimate word. Thank you everybody for ignoring the substance of my message and attacking the messenger. Return to your smug little lives now!

Would you say something? Would you let it slide, would you think of these people as basically good, or other?

Now, say you have children in your sphere on influence and you hear this out of their mouths...

"That's so Gay!" - not knowing that the term doesn't really mean stupid or uncool. Do you ignore it? Is it Ok to let them think the word "gay" as it pertains to people are stupid or uncool? Do you correct them in what link of people that it culturally describes? Do you reprimand them for saying something that is just as prejudiced as those other expressions up at the top, even though the kids don't really know what they're saying?

A previous thread that was extraordinarily rendered (deleted outright) had some people defending "That's so gay!" as just an expression and that kids mean no harm by saying it. However, if they grow up without knowing that it's a nasty thing to say, and their elders didn't correct them, then they will eventually equate women who love women, and men who love men as "stupid and uncool." If these other expressions are not to be repeated and are a sign of a small mind, why is kids saying "That's so gay" not such a bad thing?

[lse7581011]

1. I Agree!

the term is disgusting! If I heard my child use it, I would promptly reprimand them!

[Arkansas Granny]

20. I think an explanation would work better than a reprimand in a

situation like that. If a child is merely repeating something that they have heard, they need to understand why it would be offensive to someone else. When you give a child some guidelines they can pretty much decide when someone has crossed the line with sexist or racist remarks. Of course, example is the best teacher.

[Stuckinthebush]

2. I don't think niggardly belongs in that list

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niggardly

[Touchdown]

6. It is a proper term.

...and it has been in Websters for centuries as a legitimate adverb. But the connotation of what this word is similar to, and the fact that niggardly is a negative adverb, it applies more out of literary ignorance than cultural. In other words, try using the word "niggardly" in a crowded Harlem public basketball court, and see if you get many thumbs up on it.

On the same token, "Gay" originally meant happy or content. It is now a cultural/personal descriptive title for homosexuals. This is what my OP is about.

[EstimatedProphet]

10. Right

niggardly
One entry found for niggardly.
Main Entry: nig·gard·ly
Pronunciation: -lE
Function: adjective
1 : grudgingly mean about spending or granting : BEGRUDGING
2 : provided in meanly limited supply
synonym see STINGY
- nig·gard·li·ness noun
- niggardly adverb

Otherwise, good post

[Saphire]

3. my sis is gay, and I do reprimand them for saying it! I know what

they mean by it, but it's not right.

[swag]

4. Please explain how "niggardly" belongs with your other examples.

[Walt Starr]

9. I debunked his inclusion of that term in post #8 n/t

[Touchdown]

11. Then use it in Central Detroit.

or in Bellflower California.

[Walt Starr]

14. If I was there, I sure as hell would!

Ignorance of the English language is not an excuse. Sorry, but to consider the term niggardly that way is both ignorant, and is RACIST in and of itself!

[Touchdown]

23. Alright, you made your point.

Are you going to answer my question, or do you wish to derail the thread some more, because it's one you didn't start?

You win! You masterdebunker, you! Answer my question or pound sand!

[Walt Starr]

25. In regards to everything but that one term, they are unacceptable n/t

[Burning Water]

22. Hey,

there's ignorance everywhere among the American public.

[hfojvt]

103. it is not the ignorance so much as the homonymity

Whether they know what it means or not, they will likely hear it as the other word. Anyway most people go through decades of their life without ever either hearing, reading, or using that word, so it is pretty esoteric.

[ixion]

5. niggardly has no etymological relationship to the slang word 'nigger'

which, in fact, did not orginally have anything to do with race, but referred only to a poor laborer that was of any race.

Niggardly, on the otherhand, is a completely different word that means miserly, and has no relationship whatsoever to the other.

Just sayin'... ;-)

[ohio_liberal]

7. My son said it a couple of times...

Once in a public place and I reprimanded him loud and long. I have 0 tolerance for that kind of crap. I don't care if it's just an expression.

[Walt Starr]

8. Um, you're wrong about one of them

nig·gard·ly
Pronunciation: -lE
Function: adjective
1 : grudgingly mean about spending or granting : BEGRUDGING
2 : provided in meanly limited supply
synonym see STINGY
- nig·gard·li·ness noun
- niggardly adverb

Despite the similarity in spelling—and the huge controversy at the beginning of 1999 over its use by a member of the staff of the Mayor of Washington, DC—this word has no connection with nigger. The adverb form niggardly was formed in the sixteenth century from niggard, the name for a miser or stingy person. In the Wycliffe Bible of 1384 it was spelt nygard; earlier still it can be found as nigon, and another form nig also existed. We are pretty sure this was borrowed from a Scandinavian source, because there are related words in several Germanic languages, for example, the Old Norse hnøgger, meaning “stingy”.

So, taking the term niggardly, as having any sort of racist overtones is, in and of iteself, an assumption not based in fact.

[Touchdown]

17. Check my reply #6

It applies, because it's not an expression in common use, and most people don't know the meaning of it. Since when are cultural sensitivity issues ever based on fact?

Gay, meaning homosexual, would also not apply, since the original term means "Happy"

[Walt Starr]

19. #1 it is NOT an "expression", it's an actual word

#2 Ignorance is no excuse.

[Burning Water]

26. You tell 'im, Walt.

Of course, it would also be ignorant not to know that in the places he mentioned, the people might not know what the word actually meant, and might take extremely violent offense, too.

[Dorian Gray]

99. You can still use gay in the correct context

without the need for being reprimanded, as well.

"Things have gone so well for me today that I feel positively gay!"

Everything is about context. I don't pepper my conversation with either gay or niggardly, but I've beeen known to use them, appropriately, in my writings. (Papers, Essays, etc.)

The words are fine if used in context. I would think twice about dropping the word niggardly while playing basketball on a court in Harlem, but used in proper context, it should not be an offensive word.

[Loonman]

12. Niggardly means 'stingy', and is completely unconnected

...from that other word.


But don't let the facts get in your way.

[Burning Water]

13. I don't know about the others,

but 'niggardly' is a perfectly acceptable word, except among the PC ignorant. From dictionary.com


Top Web Results for "niggardly"

2 entries found for niggardly.
nig·gard·ly ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ngrd-l)
adj.
Grudging and petty in giving or spending.
Meanly small; scanty or meager: left the waiter a niggardly tip.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
niggard·li·ness n.
niggard·ly adv.


Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

niggardly

adj : petty in giving or spending; "a niggardly tip"

Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

It's still an insult, however.

[Walt Starr]

15. If it's insulting or not depends

upon whether you consider being stingy a good thing or a bad thing!

;)

[Burning Water]

Well, there may be differing

opinions, but I think it is pretty commonly accepted that 'stingy' is bad. Otherwise, why do we dis the Republicans so much??

[Walt Starr]

24. But to those Republicans

Stinginess is a good thing.

:D

[Burning Water]

28. Then perhaps we should

'frame' them with the term.

[flamin lib]

16. I said goodbye to a fellow I called friend for a long time over

this. He used the word "nigger" and I told him that I didn't think that word acceptable outside a KKK rally and would he please refrain. It kept slipping into conversation anyway. The last straw was when it was revealed that the US used White Phosphorus in Falluja he said we should WP all the sand niggers.

I finally had to tell him that although I love him like a brother I can't let him think such words and thoughts were acceptable to me and unless he ceased his bigoted ways I couldn't find his company acceptable.

[Radio_Lady]

47. flamin lib, I admire you for breaking from this person. Clearly,

he was unconsciously or consciously "sticking his finger in your eye" with the expression. You had to have courage to stick to your principles and let him go on his way. I would have done the same thing, by the way.

[Yollam]

18. I wouldn't use "niggardly", but...

...I don't think it's origins have anything to do with the derogatory name for black people.

[PatrioticLeftie]

21. I've never heard most of those

Only the first one

[ohio_liberal]

27. How about if we exchange "niggardly" for something truly offensive

like "ni**er rigged". Come on now, how many times have you heard someone use that phrase?

[Touchdown]

29. Good point.

Haven't heard that in years, so I kind of forgot about it.

[Walt Starr]

32. And that is definitely a racist phrase

as was everything escept the one where you used niggardly. All of them were racist and unnaceptable.

The onbe I find most people not even knowing they were using a racist term is when somebody says they were gypped. Most people don't realize that after JEws, Gypsies suffered the most in the holocaust

[ret5hd]

30. wow...for a self-described gadfly, you sure are sensitive.

[Touchdown]

33. Cute, you know me now?

One wrong use of the word, and all of the sudden, whatever conversation I set out to have, has devolved into a semantics gang bang by culture vultures like Walt Starr, whi is still harping on about it.

Excuse me for wanting to talk about something other than Oxfords' proper use of adverbs.:eyes:

[Walt Starr]

34. Then you should have been more informed about the term you chose

Sorry, you chose to display a perfectly valid word as racist in connotation when it is anything but racist!

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

42. You're the one complaining about having incorrectly used a term

to try and be shocking. It was pointed out to you, and now you are angry because it was pointed out to you.

On Edit: I would also add, that once pointed out to you, you could have edited it out of your original post an all would have been well.

[Touchdown]

48. Not with 25 replies castigating my ignorance.

Nobody else would have known what you and the other gang-uppers were talking about. I was just being honest by leaving it in.

I got that I was wrong on the first post that pointed it out,...olong before your "Yeah. Your an idiot!" post.

[Walt Starr]

50. Sure you could!

Simply state at the end that you edited it to remove a term you used incorrectly.

And the posts that told you you used it wrong came fast and furious. The number of posts pointing it out should demonstrate to you how well it is known by DUers that this is not a racist term.

Doing so would have allowed the discussion to flow along the lines you originally intended without the distraction of the initially included error.

Plus, DUers are exceedingly forgiving about mistakes, especially when the mistake is admitted.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

76. ...

:evilgrin:

He was getting off on haranguing me. Look the thread over. Yes, I used the word wrong, but it's not like I killed anybody's baby, and I can accept a simple "You didn't use that right" and be gracious with a mea culpa, but instead what I got was "GAWD! What an IDIOT! You are soooooooooo stupid to use niggardly improperly that you should be hung from your own entrails after being bludgeoned in your bed, you sorry sack of shit! How dare you mess with the english language!" and one of them wouldn't let up until I bowed down before his masturbting superiority and kissed the stained floor his loafers walked on. So my defenses went up. Silly me!

Besides, I like to ejaculate too, but admitting it "would be too gay!";)

[mongo]

79. But the point is the language you chose to use

and so maybe it and the expressions you are poo-pooing above do have their place.

[Touchdown]

83. Expand on that a bit.

I'm not really clear on what your saying here.:shrug:

The language I chose to use, as in the egregious OP, was to illustrate that there are many people who do not know what niggardly means. Taken as a sentence alone, I used it properly, and I knew what it meant when I wrote it, but it doesn't fit the context of the other racist sentences I wrote. Many didn't get what I was driving for, which is my communication problem. But that word can be misconstrued, and reacted to as sort of a comedy of errors or "Bad pun gone wrong", where somebody who says it in Harlem better be in a big hurry explaining the historical origins of the word and the context of it, and that it has no relation to the slang term "Nigger", because those people on the streets are walking toward him very fast.

If you are talking about male climaxing, there are two degrees of separation. Walt was fucking with me. A common expression of useless arguments on proper diction is called mental masturbation. The end of normal male masturbation is usually a climax, orgasm, and subsequent ejaculation. Does that explain it? Is that what you want explained?

[mongo]

85. Well, there are polite words

and impolite words -- both have their place. When you got exasperated you used an impolite expression.

In that sense -- all the phrases in your OP do have their rightful place in society.

[omega minimo]

86. Met yer match!

Pot :hug: Kettle :rofl:

[Touchdown]

89. THank you. That was so deep and profound.

;)

[Touchdown]

88. Nope. Apples and Oranges.

While my post to Walt was impolite, the phrases in my OP were racist and or homophobic...also impolite, but more eggregious than my mere personal attack, which in my view is a counter attack. One (mine) insults one person. The others insult entire groups of people.

On the rightful place in society, I could only agree to the point that it's easier to see a bigot when he's honest about being one.

[Dorian Gray]

102. Oh, Please...

nobody did any such thing. When pointed out to you that you used it incorrectly, the response was that it would still be perceived negatively. That may be true. I doubt that I would sling the word around in the South Bronx and all, but in the end, that SHOULDN'T be the case. It's a shame when someone is painted as racist for using a word that has nothing at all to do with race. I can see that it would be an innocent error to equate the word with racist origins, but there is no need to play victim when you learn the true origin of the word.

[gratuitous]

31. I'd probably use it as a springboard for a discussion

Rather than "forbid" the use of words, I'd engage the kid in a discussion about those words. Protestations of "I didn't mean nothin' by it" or "It's just an expression" would lead to a discussion of how oftentimes we take things the right or wrong way based on our perception, not how someone else means something. I'd lead the child to an understanding of how his or her choice of words might hurt someone else, and how they might choose another word to achieve the same meaning.

The important aspect would be in my relationship to the child. If the child was a mere passing acquaintance, I probably wouldn't interfere. But if the child was someone I had an ongoing relationship with, I'd take action based on our prior relationship and established trust.

[Boo Boo]

35. "You don't have to be so niggardly about it..."

Not sure that one means what you think it does.

The 'N'-word is an American slang, of Spanish extraction, that derives from the word Negro, which, of course, means "black" in Spanish. "Niggardly" is an English word that means (roughly) "cheap"---that is, petty in giving or spending. You know... like somebody from Scottland.

The two words have no common root, and are not related at all.

[m_welby]

36. hmm, lets see...

Depending on the circumstance I might let it slide, usually with a child (not mine) I'd let it slide, though it wouldn't be easy. One of my children I'd berate for their lack of originality in insults. (after I explained the derivation).

To an adult:

"You throw like a girl!" - Actually most girls throw better than I do.

"Damn! You got gypped." - (I haven't heard anyone use this in 30 years), most people say 'ripped off'

"What an Indian giver!" - Again, haven't heard this in 30 years and would probably look at any adult like they had 2 heads.

"He wanted $20, but I jewed him down to $10." - I have heard someone say this in conversation (don't think they knew what they were saying). I reitereated what was said but changed the wording to 'talked him down' so he would think about the difference without being in his face.

"You don't have to be so niggardly about it." - never heard this before, though I have heard "nigger rigged" which was very common. Normally I just rephrase back at the speaker (like I don't understand): "Oh, so you macgyvered it".


I find many people only say some remarks because they don't have a better response (or haven't realized what they are saying). I try to give them the option of changing their speech and improving their vocabulary without being confrontational.

Of course repetitive bigotry and callousness just makes me want to kick them in the ass.

[Dervill Crow]

38. In defense of the OP,

because most people are unfamiliar with the term "niggardly," it probably is best to use another word in its place. Someone close to me once thought I was talking about beer when I used the word "brouhaha," which I thought was a common enough word that anyone would understand. :shrug:

[joe_sixpack]

94. That's an interesting concept...

Let those with little education or a limited vocabulary decide which words of the English language are acceptable.

[Dervill Crow]

97. It's just striving for clarity in writing, n/t

[Dongfang Hong]

39. Actually, I find gay to be more offensive than any of those,

and more obviously so. "Gypped" is a stretch, the word has entered the proper lexicon. Jewed I haven't heard in my lifetime, Indian-giver is an antiquidated phrase, and "throw-like-a-girl" is unheard outside of playgrounds. And seriously, niggardly? At least you realized your mistake.

But I don't think you'll find anyone here who isn't offended by the pejorative use of "gay."

[TallahasseeGrannie]

40. I'm a teacher

I hear "that's so gay" all the time, from kindergarten on up.

So I asked a middle schooler..what do you mean, "that's so gay? Do you mean gay like in homosexual?"

He said, "Nah. Gay like in stupid, uncool." I sometimes think the nuances of middle school language are past our finite adult abilities to understand.

I have no wisdom on how to get around the situation. It is unique.

I can actually remember a middle school teacher railing against "queers" back in the early '60's. I don't exactly remember the context, but he was using words like pervert, sick-o, etc. And we all just nodded our heads. In other words, we were taught..flat out taught... that homosexuals ("gay" wasn't a term then) were mentally and morally deficient.

We have a lot of work to do to make up for generations, centuries, of such lessons. I guess it will take the dying out of a few generations to really get set right.

[Touchdown]

49. Are they American kids? Shouldn't they learn to speak like

...the rest of us? Yeah, I made (an apparently unforgiveable and worthy of a lifetime in solitary confinement) mistake by mis-appropriating niggardly, but I know I'll never use it in this context again.

You could start by asking them why they just don't use the words "stupid and uncool". They were invented for a reason.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

51. Ah...there's the rub

I teach gifted kids. I actually said THAT exact thing. Well why don't you just say stupid, then?

So they tell me...but that would be discriminatory against people with low IQ's.

They are a whole different breed of animal, gifted kids.

Sometimes I just go home and have a beer and rock.

[Walt Starr]

52. The problem is, using the terms "stupid" and "uncool"

are probably considerd to be stupid and uncool by the current generation.

Maybe some new term will come along to supplant the term in modern youth slang soon. Some new term always seems to come along and then using the term "gay" will become "stupid" and "uncool".

[Dervill Crow]

41. Those expressions make my hair stand on end.

I have a relative who uses that type of expression frequently, and we've had more than a couple of arguments. In the interest of getting along I've stopped saying anything about it, and it may be that he persists just to aggravate me.

It is so true that you can choose your friends but you can't choose your relatives. We don't talk much.

[kahleefornia]

43. I think some are worse than others

I don't like kids saying something is "gay", meaning it in a bad way. However, I don't take offense at "you throw like a girl". Maybe because some groups have it harder than others, as far as their level of prejudice. Not many people *really* think girls can't throw things well (though I am a girl, and I really do throw like one, which is to say, not well at all). But a gay person, having these slights thrown at them all day every day, might have a bigger problem with a "gay" insult. After all, I am not currently fighting for the right to participate in softball games - whereas gay people are currently fighting for all kinds of rights. Does that make sense?

"You got gypped" - I don't think many people think about the historical connotation of that, nor are there many gypsies to offend with it. (are there?)

I find myself saying things are "retarded". I probably shouldn't, but again, I'm not making a conscious slight out of it. It's just a word that has worked its way into common usage.

Mostly, I am against being overly PC about words, unless they are obviously harmful and are said with bad intent.

[Walt Starr]

44. There are Gypsies throughout the world

The Romani are present throughout the world.

An estimated 500,000 to 600,000 Gypsies were murdered in the Nazi Death camps, although conservative estimates run as low as 200,000.

[lukasahero]

57. Just remember, you don't have to fight for the right to play

softball, because some of us fought for our right to play in Little League.

Words have power.

[kath]

60. Words DO have power. I think that even things such as the generic use of

"he", which some consider innocuous, are damaging to girls.

And it's a shame that the title Ms. hasn't caught on very well. :-(

[kath]

59. using "like a girl" as a pejorative is offense to females, and contributes

to making little boys feel that they are superior little princes and that girls are second-class citizens to be looked down upon. I cringe when I hear parents using "like a girl" as an insult, and sometimes it's all I can do to bite my tongue and not give 'em a piece of my mind. I hear the phrase used way too much out here in redneck Oklahoma.

I think our child-rearing practices in this country are, by and large, as sexist as they've ever been, at least on the part of those who are raising boys. So little progress has been made.

ugghhhh.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

67. It's kind of funny to read

your sensitivity about "like a girl" and then read you live in "redneck Oklahoma."

Oh well, personally, I throw just like a redneck.

[kath]

72. you're right Granny - caught me on that one. Sorry.

It is hard being a lib in such a conservative state, and it really does get to me - but perhaps too much! Not all Oklahomans are Coburn or Inhofe type assholes.
There is a fairly pervasive stupidity and sexism here, though.

It's not just "throw like a girl". Also "stop crying like a girl" and other things. I really cringe at the way so many people are raising their boys - no discipline, and a sense of entitlement. ARRRGGGGGHHHH.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

75. I bust people on redneck all the time

one of my great joys. Of course I NEVER say it, right?

riiight.

Actually, I'm busting folks right and left tonight!

Well, I throw like a girl, too. But I used to run like a boy. As a matter of fact, I used to run after school (before jogging was ever heard of) and one of the coaches of a team a friend and I used to run past (I think it was the baseball team) when we ran, told us to get our pretty little bottoms out of his team's faces so they could get on with their practice.

Can you imagine? I never ran again. Today I weigh 300 +.

The old son of a bitch.

[Atman]

74. Actually, girls DO throw differently than boys.

I am pretty sure that girls' shoulders/arm sockets are different enough from "boys" that they do, indeed, throw differently. I had read once -- maybe it was bullshit -- that the arm socket in females makes it impossible for them to throw overhand the same way males do. A "girls'" overhand throw is more of a side-arm.

[kahleefornia]

78. I just watched a show on ACL injuries

That showed the different hip-to-knee ratio of men vs women - with the wider pelvis, women are much more prone to knee injuries. Don't know about the shoulder though.

[lukasahero]

87. Actually, it is BS - the skeletal structure of the shoulder

in males and females is the same. BTW, I throw like a guy. I used to think that was a compliment until I realized that it was just another way to suggest that boys were "better" than girls.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/mar97/848271993.An.r.html

"There is no definite 100% way of distinguishing a male from a female skeleton. With a little study and some practice you should be able to distinquish most. Here is a list of the major criteria...

Male_______________________________Female
Skull is heavier and rougher_______Lighter and smoother
Forehead is usually sloping________More vertical
Sinuses are larger_________________Smaller
Cranium about 10% larger___________Smaller
Mandible is larger, robust_________Lighter, smaller
Teeth are larger___________________Smaller

PELVIS
Narrow, robust, heavy, rough_______Broad, light, smooth
Pelvic inlet is heart shaped_______Oval to round shape
Iliac fossa is deep________________Relatively shallow
Ilium extends further above________more vertical, less above the sacroiliac
the sacrum

Angle under the symphysis is less__Angle greater than 100 degrees
than 90 degrees
Sacrum is long with pronounced_____Broad, short less curvature
sacral curvature
Coccyx points anteriorly___________Points Inferiorly

Bone weight is heavier_____________Lighter
Bone markings more prominent_______Less prominent"

[Marie26]

106. Connotations of words

I used "gypped" for years until it finally occured to me that it might be referring to Gypsies. Yes, I am that dumb. Probably intent is the most important thing - are people saying this to harm people, or just using an expression?

[Al-CIAda]

45. re:'indian giver'-

'Indian giver' is actually an expression casting the giver in a bad light, and NOT an 'indian'. It is, of course, refers to the barterer going back on his/her deal...like the indians always got screwed by the various trade and land deals.

Many take it as an insult to the indians. Why I do not know, as again,if one follows the analogy, they (the indians) are the ones who got the shaft.

[troubleinwinter]

54. You are so right.

It meant that one "gives" (see U.S. Treaties, broken) to Indians and takes it away (see U.S. Government).

[StellaBlue]

46. My personal favorite

is using the word 'pussy' to denote cowardice. When any man squeezes something the size of a watermelon out of a hole the size of a lemon, THEN they can use my genitals as shorthand for cowardice. That burns me up. Never mind that it's used as a highly objectifying, misogynistic, disgusting put-down 99% of the time, anyway. As in 'I gotta get me some pussy' or 'don't be pussy-whipped'. grrrr :grr:

[Touchdown]

53. Yeah. That is bad.

Among guys, it is used a lot, but not so much as I get older. But in College 3-20 times a day "What a pussy!" was used. I admit I'm guilty of being quiet about it when it happens.:hi:

BTW: I'm hard pressed to belive babies' heads are the size of watermelons. Honeydews at most, which is still large though.;)

[Left Is Write]

101. I think...

she was referring to the whole baby being the size of a watermelon, not just the head.

[uppityperson]

55. good rant, me too

:rofl: you are very funny, this is one of my most irksome phrases also.

[StellaBlue]

82. thanks

I like your nickname. I am currently reading

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1573240397/qid=1136335613/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7604141-8687203?n=507846&s=books&v=glance

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1573240397.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[hiaasenrocks]

61. That's kind of along the lines of when people

call someone a "dick" or a "dickhead" to mean "jerk."

EDIT: As noted below, I think this is the only term that actually applies to genitalia.

[DavidDvorkin]

62. I've always assumed that "pussy" for "coward"

refers to cats, as in scaredy-cat.

[hiaasenrocks]

63. That's offensive to cats!

:)

Of course, you're right. Whenever I've used that word to refer to a coward, it's always been with the understanding that it derived exactly from where you said it did.

My example above ('dick' and 'dickhead') actually do refer to genitalia, as far as I know....

[DavidDvorkin]

64. I guess dicks are pretty stupid

Or, to be fair, they can make their owners stupid. By themselves, they . . . have a mind of their own, as people say.

[hiaasenrocks]

65. Yes. We've all heard accusations like that.

"Which head were you thinking with?" etc...

But that's not sexist. No. ;)

I really don't mind it. I think it's funny. People need to lighten up.

[Orangepeel]

71. possibly, but I doubt it. It's not used that way, usually

because someone who is described as a "pussy" is often also told to "get some balls" or "grow a pair."

[StellaBlue]

81. That NEVER occurred to me.

:eyes: Hmmm........ I always assumed it was along the lines of 'you throw like a girl' and 'you're pussy-whipped'.

[NuttyFluffers]

96. oh, i shouldn't say this... but have you seen goatse.cx?

does this feat qualify for us to now use your genitals for shorthand for cowardice?
:evilgrin:

[Left Is Write]

100. I can't stand that word to begin with.

It always sounds degrading, no matter which context it's used in (with the possible exception of its use to denote a feline, but even then it's often supposed to be a funny double entendre).

[QC]

58. Those people are just a bunch of rednecks and white trash!

How many times have I had "enlightened liberals and progressives" tell me that statements like the above are perfectly OK and I shouldn't be so sensitive as to object to them? If I had a dollar for every time, I'd have enough money to be a Republican.

[Orangepeel]

68. a bit OT, but personally, I think that the term "white trash"

if offensive to non-whites rather than whites, because it implies that the term "trash" alone needs to be qualified to apply to whites.

To illustrate, today on "Dr. Phil" he was talking about a male kid whose mother made him participating in cheerleading. He constantly referred to him as a "boy cheerleader." As with the terms "male nurse" or "lady pilot," the speaker applies the qualifier because he/she believes the term may evoke a stereotypical image of one gender unless the other gender is specified.

When someone is described as "white trash" (a term I don't use by the way), what does it mean? That they are like trash, only white? That they are both white and trash? Why is the qualifier necessary?

[hiaasenrocks]

70. And there is always the possibility that

some whites aren't even as good as trash, so in those cases it would be offensive to trash.

I personally am very fond of the color red, so when I hear people say "redneck" it actually takes away from my enjoyment of that beautiful color. Why associate such a grand visual sight with such white trash?

How much "trash" is really white anyway? I mean, there's paper and some containers of course. But I find that much of my trash is green. Leftover vegetables, many cans, boxes of frozen dinners, bags from two local small grocery stores...

We really need to think hard about all of this.

[Orangepeel]

73. whatever

I can't make you think it's important.

[BamaGirl]

66. My daughter came home from school one day saying that

and I just about lost it. As far as I'm concerned, it's not just an expression, and I better never hear it from one of my kids again. As for your other examples, I'm 1/4 NA, they are familiar with that expression and they don't like it, so won't use it. We do hear it every now and then, and they go off lol. Furthermore, I do not throw like a girl, and my 8yo would be insulted as all hell if you told her she does lol. And once they understood that there wasn't any difference between those expressions and 'thats so gay', they got why they shouldn't say it. The others I don't come across, and there are some here in the South that don't bear repeating, that in my book are beyond crass.

So um, what was the question again lol? :P

I missed the other post. But put me in the, this is not cool category, regarding it's just an expression.

[SmokingJacket]

69. I wouldn't let my children use any of those terms...

Even "niggardly," because while *I* know what it means, not everyone who hears it does, which the OP's use of it makes obvious. English is a robust language; there are plenty of other synonyms for "stingy": tight-fisted, parsimonious, cheap, miserly, etc. Why risk being misunderstood?

Similarly, I wouldn't say "I feel gay today," unless I meant I was attracted to people of my own gender. Language is a living thing; there's nothing to be gained by pretending it's frozen in the past.

Oh, and I think the kids know *exactly* what they're saying when they say, "That's gay." Using words like "gay" and "girly" -- words that describe some people's identity -- as insults is incredibly rude.

[Gormy Cuss]

77. "That's so gay"

I usually ask a kid what it means, then explain that to most adults it sounds like you're trying to insult homosexuals. It makes them think about it a minute although I can't report that it changes the behavior.

We used to say "That's so queer" meaning stupid and uncool, which is somewhat related to the actual meaning of the word but at that time "queer" was also the common pejorative term for gay. I have wondered if the slang evolved in a perverse correction from 'queer' to 'gay.' because queer became a bad word.

[Touchdown]

80. I'm 40 and I remember others using it in high school

That was 1980. I seriously doubt it's going to end until the adults in charge stop it themselves.

Calling another kid "Cocksucker" or saying "Shit!" get's a sink load of Palmolive in the mouth. Saying "That's so Gay!" get's an "Aww, he didn't mean anything by it. He just thinks it means stupid. Can he be any more adorable?":puke:

[Schema Thing]

84. There is a great anti * song by a female singer/songwriter

"he throws the bomb like a girl"


Sometimes, it's better just to let language and society diverge w/o trying to control everything.

[omega minimo]

95. More proof language matters

"Sometimes, it's better just to let language and society diverge w/o trying to control everything."




More proof language matters

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

diverge
One entry found for diverge.


Main Entry: di·verge
Pronunciation: d&-'v&rj, dI-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): di·verged; di·verg·ing
Etymology: Medieval Latin divergere, from Latin dis- + vergere to incline -- more at WRENCH
intransitive senses
1 a : to move or extend in different directions from a common point : draw apart <diverging roads> b : to become or be different in character or form : differ in opinion
2 : to turn aside from a path or course : DEVIATE
3 : to be mathematically divergent
transitive senses : DEFLECT
synonym see SWERVE

Entry Word: diverge
Function: verb
Text: 1 to extend outwards from or as if from a central point <light rays diverge after passing through a concave lens> -- see RADIATE 1
2 to go or move in different directions from a central point <at that point the road and the railroad tracks diverge> -- see SEPARATE 2

[lapislzi]

90. Depends on the company...

If my daughter (11) uses a phrase (the "gay" one is popular among her set), I will call her on it. Have done. She knows better now.

I will also call an ignorant adult--or stranger--on any of them, and point out that I find such phrases offensive.

However, among my liberal friends, which include all the maligned groups and some not mentioned, we can and do use phrases like that with (sometimes self-deprecating) humor. Does that make it OK? I don't know, but I know we all know better and sometimes do it anyway in a joking way.

[rpgamerd00d]

91. Kids dont say "Gay" they say "Ghey", its a different word

There is a new internet word, its spelled "Ghey" and it means "stupid or dumb".
I'm just putting that out there.

[Touchdown]

92. Oh! Well that makes ALL the difference.

That's it folks! Debate's over. The wisdom of youth has invented a new term, "Ghey". No relation to gay, and the pronouncement similarities, living or dead, are entirely coincidental. Nothing to see here anymore. All is right with the world now.

In case you wanted to know... Yes, I was born yesterday, on a turnip truck as a matter of fact.:hi:

[LizW]

93. Like Phat?

Okay, maybe.

But if my middle schooler says it, "gay" or "ghey", he's getting an earful from me!

Hey, I'm a liberal mom. I NEVER miss and opportunity to give an impromptu lecture on tolerance and kindness.

[Dervill Crow]

98. Unless they're spelling it out in sign language, it's still "gay."

My 10th grader persists in saying it, and I persist in lecturing. He'll either get tired of the lectures and desist or mature and desist. Either way, he knows it's unacceptable.

[Bluerthanblue]

104. words DO have power-

and intention is often not relevant-

"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names can really hurt me"-

As one who has many physical AND emotional scars- it's the emotional ones that are harder to overcome- (except some of my bones in bad weather) and the questions from curious strangers- but the words, and the invisible harms, are something that don't heal (at least in my experience) and something that refuse to stop echoing or popping up at the least provocation, eroding a sense of peace, and self worth, when it is least expected-

If we ignore something, we are giving it liscence.- or tacit approval.

Innocent comments by children, can be discussed and explained so that kids who parrot adults understand the things that they are saying.
For their OWN good as well as the good of all- done without shaming or blaming.- Kids don't (as a rule) enjoy hurting others without cause.


(My youngest son was horrified to learn that Viagria was something to make a mans penis hard- He used to imitate his big brothers silly deer hunt game where the deer stalk the hunters, and one of the options was to use the 'deer calls' - among which was "Viagria, get your viagria"- he'd sing it out spontaniously- like in the grocerey store- when I explained what he was saying, he was so embarrassed.-)

[leftofthedial]

105. oversensitivity, political correctness run amock

and the triumph of style over substance strikes again!

Like there aren't any real problems to fret your little head over.