Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

If Americans found out the real truth, it'd be torch & pitchfork time.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 04:31 AM
Original message
If Americans found out the real truth, it'd be torch & pitchfork time.
If it could be exposed just exactly HOW corrupt these assholes are, if we could show all of the rest of America what is really at stake with neocons at the helm, there would be a major uprising of the citizenry like history never saw before.

Will it ever happen though, with the modern media manipulations? If we could finally, completely expose the horrific truth about these men, things would simply take care of themselves, because if the U.S. really knew the depravity, and the ghastly plans they've made and will make, it could get really, really ugly.

My worry though is that it hasn't happened YET, and I wonder to myself, just what the hell will it take?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Morans will take this insanity to their graves.. and into hell where they belong
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Which assholes are you talking about? There are so many, and the list
of their crimes so long, I was just wondering which case you are referring to?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sanskritwarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 04:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think you
overestimate the American public. I'd be willing to go to Vegas to take odds that people would do next to nothing. Apathy and Laziness are key when things don't affect you directly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Agreed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberal renegade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. that's exactly why we're in this mess n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. They don't even know when they are affected directly...
They really believe that the president of ExxonMobil "earned" $500 million.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. And THAT is exactly why we'll lose our democracy - sloth and cowardice.
Democracy cannot be a spectator sport with Nielson Ratings. We've become an authoritarian culture - obsessed with finding "leaders" instead of leading. Authoritarian parenting, authoritarian schools, authoritarian coorporations ... all things from our Dear Leaders. "Let George Do It" has become our national mantra.

We give lip service to service - and hide from duty. Abominable.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kindigger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 04:58 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ya know what I realized last night
...while gabbing over at my parents' house? I realized they are not apathetic, uninformed, or feeble. They're two good-hearted "70 somethings", trying to eek out a few more years as stress free and happy, as possible. They know exactly what's going on, and the only thing they have left to do is be sad about it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. I think you've nailed it, dragndust. The American people are far better
informed than anyone gives them credit for. Look at the POLLS, for chrissakes! (--and look at them from way back before the war--56% opposed to the war Feb. '03--fast-forward to 2004, 63% opposed to torture "under any circumstances" --in fact 60%-70% opposed to every Bush policy, foreign and domestic, over the last several years--70% opposed to the war today, and a whopping 84% (!) opposed to any US participation in a widened Mideast war!). The problem is NOT that the American people are uninformed, uncaring "sheeple." The problem is that they are disempowered, demoralized, and, above all, DISENFRANCHISED. The disenfranchisement was swift, dramatic and thorough, accomplished by the "Help America Vote for Bush Act" of 2002: engineered by the biggest crooks in the Anthrax Congress, Tom Delay and Bob Ney (abetted by corporate 'Democrats' Christopher Dodd and Terry McAuliffe); $3.9 billion to bribe and corrupt election officials and legislators across the land, into purchasing electronic voting systems, run on TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled by Bushite corporations. And they are

DIEBOLD: Until recently, headed by Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer," right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush-Cheney in 2004"; and

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things). Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship; they are run by two brothers, Bob and Todd Urosevich.

These are the people who "counted" 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, under a veil of corporate secrecy.

This WAS the coup. And it is still possible to overturn it, at the state/local level, where the power over voting systems still resides, and where ordinary people still have some influence. Not any easy task--the corruption got entrenched very swiftly--but still doable. These corporations are putting a 5% to 10% "thumb on the scales" for Bushites, warmongers and corporatists, wherever they can get away with it. In the '06 elections, the voters--who are increasingly aware of what's going on (50% voted by Absentee Ballot in many places--trying to find a way around the rigged electronics)--overwhelmed the machines to a certain degree, and managed to give the Democrats a majority in the House and even in the Senate (only 1/3 of which was up for reelection), but Congress is still not fully representative of the American people, which should be quite obvious by now. (It's become pretty clear, too, that the machines have to be pre-programmed, and are not so easy to change on election day--which may have been the reason for the outright, visible felony vote suppression in Ohio in '04--the peoples' vote for Kerry was actually a landslide and Rove and Co. had to pull out all the stops to overturn it.) Diebold and ES&S are still in place, and still "count" the votes with code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it. (Did y'all see where ES&S refused to give up its source code in FL-13, where 18,000 Democratic votes for Congress were 'disappeared' and where our candidate Christine Jennings and her supporters have taken the matter to the courts and to Congress? Contested election, boffo evidence of fraud, and ES&S claims "trade secret" rights to their secret vote counting formula--outrageous!)

Anyway, calling Americans "sheeple" is an easy way out of the task before us: restoring transparent elections, and restoring our democracy; re-empowering and re-enfranchising the people. Many still don't know, although awareness is growing fast, thanks to a fired up, awesome, and incredibly brilliant election reform movement.

One other thought: The antiwar and civil rights movements of the 1960s, and all the many peoples' movements before it, occurred in a context of relatively transparent elections and a relatively free press. The 1960s antiwar movement, for instance, drove LBJ out of the presidential race of 1968, because he saw that voter retribution was coming, for the Vietnam War. In all previous circumstances, people could "take to the streets" and expect that they would have an impact on the political process in a democratic country. They might get hosed or shot or beaten up. But then those things, too, would become an issue. Street protests ALWAYS have an impact--even if it's just one lonely person holding a sign. There is absolutely nothing so potent as public witness of government wrong-doing. However, what we have seen since Seattle '99, is an unfree press ignoring or marginalizing even very big protests, and an ILLEGITIMATE government that is deaf to the American people. Bush/Cheney are doing what they are doing because they were NOT elected. In addition, the war profiteering corporate news monopolies have been giving a Big Trumpet to a nutball rightwing minority, way out of proportion to their numbers, so that the members of the progressive and peace-minded majority feel isolated and alone, and demoralized and disempowered. Why go to a street protest if no one is listening, and it has no hope of influencing policy?

We are living in a fascist dictatorship. It is disguised and clever in some ways, and in other ways quite blatant. It has been tailored to us--specifically, to the American people, and our somewhat fractured lives, lack of community and dependence on corporate news monopolies for our sense of reality and our sense of belonging to a nation. We have no experience of fascist dictatorship. We have some LOCAL experience of it (segregation in the south, the railroad barons in California at the turn of the last century, various labor fights), and we have some experience of brutal repression in living memory (Miami '03, Seattle '99, Kent State '70, Chicago '68, Alabama '65, Mississippi '64). But still, we as a population--everybody included--are not used to this current circumstance of the deafness of government and an absolutely out-of-control executive, which has asserted powers of indefinite detention without trial, torture, domestic spying by the military (!), secret prisons, lawless "signing statements" and utter contempt for the Constitution and for the people of this country. This is NEW.

You wonder why people are not taking "torches and pitchforks" to the White House? It's because we've never been a "banana republic" before. Many people only half-way understand--if they realize it at all--that the Old Republic is gone. It happened so fast--between 2002 and 2004--with non-transparent vote counting. About half the country, I'd say, is still depending on elections and other democratic institutions to handle whatever has gone wrong. (Also, the White House is very far away for most people--it's not like we can walk down the street to the Bastille. Bigness, the vastness of the country, is an obstacle to direct democratic change at the national level.) (--it is also, however, a constraint on the Junta.)

So give people a break, is all I'm saying. Give Americans a break. Give them some credit. UNDERSTAND what they are going through. REALLY understand it. And work to re-enfranchise them. Our fellow and sister Americans are a good and generous and progressive people who are in a state of bewilderment about what has happened to our democracy. Many truly don't know what to do about it. We have to find new ways to communicate and activate. And, most important of all, we must restore the fundamental mechanism of progressive change: transparent elections.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. if you don't already know
you aren't f***ing paying attention
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
livvy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Start here....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
10. You have a higher opinion of the American people than I do.
Nothing will make them take to the street.
(except a draft)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Sigh...here we go again
Am American who thinks he or she is better than the rest of the citizenry. Ok, you are entitled to your opinion I suppose. Of course it's tough being friendless but I suppose if one is mensa level, then they can sit up in their lofty perch and sneer down at all of us Joe six packs who actually are struggling to make a difference. Have a nice barren life my friend.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mwb970 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Self-delete, dumb.
Edited on Tue Jan-16-07 08:27 AM by mwb970
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. I am going to say a special prayer for you.
That you let go of your anger and venom.

That you not put words into other people's mouths.

That you not insult and denigrate those with whom
you disagree.

That you not attack strangers with such vitriol.

And that you use your intelligence for the common
good. Not for attack, but to help this country
deal with the greatest crisis of our lifetime.

Please feel the love and light that surround you.
Amen.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 06:33 AM
Response to Original message
12. the corporati media won't let that happen.
nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
14. My local peace group was out protesting on Saturday
and people have just started coming up to us. One guy is working on developing an impeachment committee from our Congressional district. We had a meeting about that yesterday. There is a guy who wants to tape us for T.V. asking us to say why we want the President impeached. He does local T.V. on cable in Arlington. Then there was another guy who was an angry Republican, he was out posting notices about the January 27 march, and after he finished he came back to protest with us.

It's surprising how much anti-war energy is out there. And you can see it if you go out protesting. We are going to have enough people to fill an old school bus on the 27th, and this is Virginia, for Chrissake!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
16. I've wondered aloud, just what the hell will it take?
And after 6 years of scandals, corruption and atrocities no longer have much hope. At dinner tonight an Australian friend said, "What they dish out to others will first have to return to their own shores."

The American character has changed drastically. This board attracts many wonderful, educated, committed spirits who still embody values I recognize. However, as it has grown exponentially a more representative demographic has gained prominence.

A cousin and I had another of our famous "knock down drag out" phone fights last evening. It began with her declaration that I needed to "come home." I told her I was speaking to her from my home. The screaming began immediately. Unlike all the fights we've had before, this time I played my part, completely uninvolved emotionally. It was kind of pathetic, really. Here was a woman who has spent her entire life in Queens, living in the house she grew up in, who watches CNN, reads the NYT and thinks she's informed, FLYING OFF THE HANDLE because I feel quite comfortable in the city I've chosen to live in. :shrug:

I asked her where SHE thought I would feel at home in the U.S. I've spent time in the places she named, she not. Growing impatient, I shouted, "TOO MANY AMERICANS ARE JUST TOO STUPID!!! TOO SLOW ON THE UPTAKE AND JUST TOO STUPID!!!" Case in point:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3129537

She was OUTRAGED, I tells ya. Then we "kissed and made up."

I love my cousin. She's creative, resourceful, educated and urbane. She's also as dumb as a box of rocks, having been dumbed-down by the American mythology that has swallowed up any vestige of critical thinking into a big black hole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
17.  I agree, but....
I think that if the whole truth came out, many people here at DU would be shocked too. The neocons are by far the worst of them all, but there is a lot more evil from where they come from.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
18. If the public knew the truth about 9/11 & that it was MIHOP or LIHOP
ALL HELL would break loose! Sure, lots of people are aware as evidenced by the election in November and the Impeachment talk all over the place, but 9/11 would be IT-The Final Straw. Either that or they decide to pull a draft on the country to go to war in Iran-then ALL HELL would really and finally break loose! :grr:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
19. It will take House members to do their duty according to their
oaths of office.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. As long as the Democratic Party allows KAPO Joe
to be in charge of Homeland Security oversight and remains infiltrated by stealth candidates, the boys will have a free hand as usual.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. I'm amazed it hasn't happened yet.
Hopefully Congress will do their job before things get too ugly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
23. A problem for most...
is for them to conceptualize the egregious crimes that have been committed while they have watched. The inability to admit responsibility denies the reality that has occurred. It is all too overwhelming for most Americans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
25. I was naive too...hard to believe that our representatives and officials
could be as corrupt, immoral, and ruthless as many appear to be. It was a hard lesson that I'm sad to have learned and I imagine that many people don't want to admit that we're on our own here. It takes repeated beating over the head with reality to accept.

And, still, I bet many of the faithful would be glad to have reason to jump back onto the GOP bandwagon...and are just waiting for an excuse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The2ndWheel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
26. Too specialized, and too large scale for anything to happen
Change that, and maybe you've got something to work with. That's not the general trend of our way of life though.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. 41 admitted it.
He told reporter Sarah McClendon in 1992 that if the American people ever knew what Bushes did, they would chase them down the street and hang them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blues90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
28. Getting the truth to the masses is the main problem
If we had all the outlets the right=wing media had then just maybe we would have this end .

As it is it won't happen until most americans are in big trouble and finally realize why this is . This will be the only other way but there is not enough time for this now .

Perhaps many of us will parish by the time the truth is really out there and realized so we continue on doing what we can . It seems to be the furture generations who will benefit from the efforts , we will be counted amoung the lost for the cause and that's ok , what else can we do .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. 3rd Quarter 2007
ARMs (adjustable rate mortgages). You heard it here first.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FormerDem06 Donating Member (308 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-16-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
30. They are puppets each and every one....
If you really think that removing Bush/Cheney from office would change how the world is going I'd say you are wrong.

Clinton still signed NAFTA, and advocated for an early version of CAFTA. I am convinced that there is a group of uber rich pulling the strings around here for their benefit. The War is a distraction to deter us from the devaluation of the US dollar, the introduction of the Amero and the forming of the North American Union.

I used to think that was all a bunch of crap but you know, my opinion is beginning to change and quickly.

But it really is happening:

http://www.spp.gov/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC