National Guard Unit Extended In Iraq Behind "Halp Us Jon Carry" Photo

[wellst0nev0ter]

That's right, the 1/34 BCT of the Minnesota National Guard are the same ones being held back in Eye-Rack to support Bush's splurge of troops.


So you know what? Fuck em. Even though John Kerry has stated dozens of times that his misunderstood joke was NOT intended to make fun of the troops, just *, those guardsmen still were quick to champion the BFEE version of events.

But despite their efforts to boost Bush's prospects for the elections, they are rewarded with longer periods away from their families, more IEDs, more snipers and more of the same misery you get staying in the shitmire. But guess what? I'm done holding their hands and reaching out to them with my sympathies. They chose to lie in bed with a boy who has wet dreams, they deserve to sleep in the piddle.

Maybe sometime in the future when they are truly contrite, or if there's a draft, will I renew my sympathies with the troops. But for now I wash my hands of them.

[itsmesgd]

1. Enjoy the ignorance, boys

I hope that they do not speak for the rest of the troops. In fact I know that they dont, most of them would really like to come home.

[Hav]

2. .

Ironic. Now, they are indeed stuck in Iraq :eyes:.
Yeah, they probably liked it there or they wouldn't have attacked those who speak out for them and who don't want them to be there forever.

[The Count]

3. You know what? Those in the photo might be the only freepers in the unit

The rest of them could be very decent people...So I am not comfortable about that wish...But yeah, I'd like to know what went through their mind when they heard fearless leader needs them a bit longer...
The "botched joke" gambit, BTW happened way after the election, which Kerry did win.

[peacebaby3]

14. Thank you for a voice of reason. 8 ppl. in a photo so now we have

posts giddy about an entire unit and their families suffering. I'm sure this one will be used on the "internets" and they'll cut our replies out.

[wellst0nev0ter]

15. Perhaps I'm Being Too Blanket

But what I'm not going to do is be worried that some freeptard is going to selectively "misconstrue" my statments. If we all said what we want without worrying about goddamn freepers, we'd all be a lot happier.

[peacebaby3]

24. I appreciate that you are willing to say you are being too blanket.

So, if you aren't worried about what a "freeper" would say, how about one of your fellow DUers? My husband is in the military and served in Iraq for over a year He can't stand *. He voted for Kerry.

You said:

"Maybe sometime in the future when they are truly contrite, or if there's a draft, will I renew my sympathies with the troops. But for now I wash my hands of them."

I find those kinds of statements very hurtful and unfair. I don't think you should judge a unit of 150-200 ppl. (and their family members)by 8 members.

Truth be told, I cringe at the amount of joy I see sometimes here on DU when people face tragedy or die. I know the "other side" does it all the time, but I thought we were supposed to be better.

I understand the irony of it and think the story alone without all the "fuck em" language speaks for itself.

Based on your reply, I don't think you meant it to be hurtful and we all have a right to our opinion.

[lastliberalintexas]

26. While I don't want to speak for her, I think wellstone might be feeling

much as I am of late. I still have a great deal of sympathy and compassion for ALL the troops, but I am losing patience with most/many of them. I know someone who is about to be sent on his 3rd tour to Iraq, and yet he's still as much of a head in the sand don't talk to be about facts or history Bushbot as he's ever been. He also despises Kerry, Dean, libruls, commies (eh?) and peaceniks, just so you know. And the buddies he's brought around on furlough have been just as bad, even as they bitch about having to go back to the hellhole.

So while I fervently plead every day with fate/god(dess)/whatever to bring all our troops home and hopefully allow the Iraqi people a measure of peace as well, I no longer have any patience for them. And yes, that is something I'm working on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. So you know ONE of the few who are still for Bush

back in 2004 there were some electioms... and my husband was still in the Navy, you might remember that... two things have happened from those elections

UNLIKE 2000 when the GOP used the troop vote as exhibit one on how they had the military in their pocket, in 2004 none of that was published, you care to tell me why? (I will tell you why, the military voted overwhelmingly for Kerry)

What is more, my husband, a bright senior NCO in the USN (Chief) told me something that may escape you... and you might even miss by a mile as you are missing it right now. The US Military is a reflection of the US Population. We do have that 30% we blithely call freepers... in the civilian world, what tells you exactly what you are hearing from that particular troop, what tells you that they don't exist in the armed forces?

Also, not that you would understand it, but your friend's "support for Bush" may come down to a simpler explanation since he does not discuss politics with you.

That is called you cannot question your superiors and the CiC in the chain of command and you cannot talk politics while in active duty. Many troops do, when out of uniform, but technically you are not supposed to have a voice. In fact, in the 1950s some senior officers even proposed that those IN UNIFORM should not be able to vote.

Now I don't know your friend, but I do know there is a 30% or so of intractables... he may or may not be one of them, and it has NOTHING to do with being a troop. So as a wife of a RETIRNED Navy chief I will ask you what the hell is your major malfunction and get your head out of your ass!

[lastliberalintexas]

53. Sure you meant to reply to me?

I said I've lost patience with many/most of the troops, certainly not all. I also said that I want them home, safe and sound (and of course getting any medical/psych care they might need after their deployments). I'm not really sure how that sentiment merits a reply as snarky as yours? Though I guess I can understand how edgy you must be, as I live in fear of my brother being recalled into the service, since he technically still "owes" them a year.

And this person I know has discussed politics with me, which is how I know he despises people like us. I know more than just one repub in the military, though I only used him as an example since he is about to be sent back for the 3rd time in 3 and 1/2 years. And I didn't say that the fact that the military has repubs in it means that they "get what they deserve", now did I?

I also know some current and ex-military who have opposed this war from the beginning, my brother included. I did not discuss them, as I was merely trying to explain how the OP might be feeling frustrated (as opposed to unsympathetic) fighting to get the very people home who seemingly hate our guts.

[_dynamicdems]

41. You're right. There are only a handful of guys in that photo.

Apparently, these are the only ones the RW could assemble to Kerry-bash. That speaks well of the rest of their unit who did not go along with the stupid, political stunt. I hope that the buttheads in that photo are getting hell from their fellow troops now. That would be true poetic justice.

[Supersedeas]

42. the mind of a Freeper is hardly something that you want to explore

[Ganja Ninja]

4. Lets see if their laughing 6 months from now or a year from now or

2 years from now when they're on their 5th or 6th tours of Iraq or their first or second tour of Iran.

[MasonJar]

5. Wasn't the so-called joke just before election 2006, when Kerry

was out all over US campaigning for dems? Of course after the joke he pulled back...just another success for the swift boaters. It is a miracle that with the venom spewed by the right that any honorable statesmen are still willing to run for office.

[wellst0nev0ter]

8. Yep, Here's His Response To The Reich Wing Lie Machine

http://video.johnkerry.com/video/flash/103106_pressc_2.html

[karynnj]

21. He attacked the RW attack machine

and issued a statement to any troops or family hurt. He then stopped talking because he didn't want to hurt anyone running. This left the repetition of "stuck in Iraq". It hurt the Senator but from the last week polling hpossibly helped the Democrats.

When he selflessly went silent, Hillary and Schumer stabbed him in the back continuing the story - and diminishing what Kerry did to attack the RW attack machine - he had hit them in defense of other veterans very successfully. Here, he also had a measure of success before the Democrats gave it credance.

[karynnj]

6. John Kerry, himself, was not offended by the picture

in terms of the troops. It has some humor to it and they likely were pushed by the RW talk.

Kerry, even in 2004, spoke of the backend draft and how unfair it was to the soldiers. I would guess that his sympathies would be with these troops - in spite of the photo. If the troops want a man they can count on to support their interests they can't do better than John Kerry, who will fight for them - whether or not they like him.

[EFerrari]

9. That banner is funny and truthful at the same time.

Somebody DOES have to help these guys stuck in Iraq. They are sitting ducks.

[karynnj]

52. Totally agree - even if their spelling is bad

Kerry is trying as hard as anyone. Hope they make it home ok.

[wellst0nev0ter]

10. Then He Is Obviously A Bigger Man Than Me

And I tip my hat to him. Perhaps someday I'll look past practiced ignorance with compassion, but right now it's just too much that I could take.

[karynnj]

17. He made some comment in an interview that I can't find

that he could see himself having done the same.

In his rebuttal he targetted one group and one group only - the RW echo chamber which will take anything - even if they know it's a distortion - and twist it, repeat it ad nauseum and try to make it sick. It is sickening when it starts. (Consider now - in a non-election time, when Boxer is not a possible Presidential candidate how quickly they were all taking her words to diss Rice as single (which Laura's comments really did) and for that reason non Presidential material) - were everywhere)

The statement he made the next day to troops hurt by this came from his genuine concern, admiration and love for them.

As to bigger man - he forgave Nixon when Nixon sought Senator Kerry out when he visted Capital Hill in the 1990s. This was after it was known that Nixon had told people to destroy Kerry - because as a clean, articulate, genuine war hero, he was a threat. (This led to a climate where Kerry had windows broken and tires slashed. One brick that broke a window landed a few feet from a sleeping Alexandra's cradle.) I doubt I would ever have forgave him - he's a far better person than I could ever be.

[MH1]

28. He's a bigger man than most of us, I think.

(and by "us" I mean people in general)

That's one of the reasons I support him so strongly. He may not have given enough lip service to "values" in the 2004 campaign, according to some pundits, but maybe that's because he lives his values rather than talking about them.

That's why we so desperately need him as our President. Or at least someone like him.

[rodeodance]

7. umm.. what a bunch of idiotic whizzies!

[globalvillage]

11. I do feel for them

and hope they come home soon. Still, can't help but see the bitter irony in this.

Kerry says U.S. now has 'backdoor draft'
Democrat says Bush policies spread military too thin

June 3, 2004
INDEPENDENCE, Mo. - Democratic presidential challenger John Kerry said Thursday that the Bush administration has instituted a “backdoor draft” by requiring thousands of soldiers to stay in the military if their units are ordered to Iraq or Afghanistan.

Kerry said the Pentagon’s announcement of the “stop-loss” program Wednesday may have increased the forces by 30,000 troops. “But this has happened on the backs of the men and women who’ve already fulfilled their obligation to the armed forces and to our country — and it runs counter to the traditions of an all-volunteer Army,” he said during a speech on modernizing the military at the Truman Presidential Library.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5129079/

[etherealtruth]

79. I see the irony, too

...and I agree with you "and hope they come home soon" ... I want everyone home, even the freepers

[TheDebbieDee]

12. It always surprises me that everybody assumes

that soldiers in Iraq have the same ready access to info that we do.

More than likely, the only media they have ready access to is Armed Forces Radio, a media that is almost entirely controlled by the Pentagon, which is in turn controlled by the neocons.

These soldiers may not have internet access, or the sites we like to access may be blocked from their access.

For all we know, these soldiers may be totally unaware of what exactly Kerry said, or that he apologized and tried to explain what he said numerous times.

It's not like these soldiers necessarily have the choice between watching FOX News or CNN or MSNBC.........there's probably only FOX News for them!

[MH1]

29. You make a good point BUT

they should have questioned the context of the quote as soon as they heard it.

As Christians (all Americans are, right?*) they certainly must have been taught not to believe bad about someone when they only hear one side of the story.

Oh, wait...


Seriously, that is a big problem with our secondary education system, imo - too many people haven't even been taught to recognize when they might be being manipulated. They shouldn't have had to hear Kerry's side of it to question the story and avoid falling for the spin.


* just to be clear - :sarcasm:

[butterfly77]

66. Some have come home and gone back...

I find it hard to believe that they aren't communicating with each other about their thoughts and feelings...

[TheDebbieDee]

70. And it's against the Military Code of Conduct

to "communicate" feelings that are not supportive of the Commander-in-Chief, the Secretary of Defense or any of their policies.

I still wonder what the hell happened to the soldier that demanded, on videotape during some press pow-wow in Iraq, the resignation of SecDef Rumsfeld shortly after we invaded Iraq.

Everything was a mess then and this guy had already had enough. I have no idea what happened to him, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out he was dead!

[butterfly77]

82. So do you think that while they are in the field...

they don't communicate their feelings about their circumstances... There are other situations where I have heard of of suicides but we will never know of the circumstances, just like the military installation that was blown up late last year in Iraq, which held all types of weapons that were exploding. It was posted here at DU but I never heard it reported on MSM. I recently heard it discussed on some type of news program because, they hold back information for months or years if they can...

[TheDebbieDee]

83. I think all soldiers are now more or less trapped

into playing that "good soldier" role and acting as though they are with the program.

Lots of soldiers may complain about extended tours or missing their families or the lousy food......but they will probably stop just short of stating how stupid our pResident and his policies are.

Also,their Commanders and NCOs, both senior and junior are under pressure to keep playing that "good soldier" role.

Unless a soldier is having trouble handling the stress, he or she will probably not express him/herself to someone that they don't trust or haven't known for a long time.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

13. I've got an idea...

As I recall from the time, these troops are part of a non-combat outfit (based at an airfield in Southern Iraq). Let's put them on street patrols in Baghdad and see how fucking funny they think it is.

[Lost4words]

16. Looks like the joke is on these poor saps, oh well...

[lectrobyte]

18. Sadly, now that the deployment time limits are removed for Guard and Reserve

Units, these deployments will be happening more and more.


http://www.localnewsleader.com/olberlin/stories/index.php?action=fullnews&id=43688

ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer Thu Jan 11, 6:08 PM ET

WASHINGTON - The Pentagon has abandoned its limit on the time a citizen-soldier can be required to serve on active duty, officials said Thursday, a major change that reflects an Army stretched thin by longer-than-expected combat in Iraq .

The day after President Bush announced his plan for a deeper U.S. military commitment in Iraq, Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters the change in reserve policy would have been made anyway because active-duty troops already were getting too little time between their combat tours.

Until now, the Pentagon‘s policy on the Guard or Reserve was that members‘ cumulative time on active duty for the Iraq or Afghan wars could not exceed 24 months. That cumulative limit is now lifted; the remaining limit is on the length of any single mobilization, which may not exceed 24 consecutive months, Pace said.

[Zodiak]

19. Arent trooops not supposed to participate in the political process?

Is making that sign and posting it across the world out of line?

If so, then the irony is overwhelming.

[wisteria]

20. I dislike their attitudes and their slight of Kerry, I feel sorry for them still though,

they are being used for propaganda purposes and acting like fools politicizing Bush's war. Mocking Senator Kerry,one of the men who genuinely care about their safety and want to get it right in the Middle East is very foolish of them. I hope they stay safe and live to realize how they have been used.

[ProSense]

22. Maybe they can still turn it around.

They can admit that it was a desperate cry for help. After all, active duty military may not want to openly criticize the CIC. Look at the legal protections the soldiers signing the withdrawal petition secured before going public.

Help us John Kerry.

[Beausoir]

23. I hope they all make it home alive and well. This is a senseless war.

[Hobarticus]

25. I'm not celebrating. Eight wise-asses do not a unit make...

I can understand the feeling behind it, but think about it:

These aren't regular Army, they're guardsmen. For every flamin' a-hole like these clowns that we see, there's a dozen normal people behind them who want to go home and aren't cheerleaders for Dubya. To say "fuck 'em" to the entire unit is pretty callous.

[aikoaiko]

27. Sorry my support for the troops is not as conditional as yours.

They signed up to serve the country and be led by whoever is elected.

It threads like this that it plain why so many troops distrust Democrats.

[RamboLiberal]

30. I don't feel sorry for any of the guys in the photo

or any of them who voted for Bush, especially in '04. Well Karma's a bitch.

But for the rest who just want to come home - those are the troops I feel for and will work to get them home.

Still I wish no matter how they voted that they stay safe.

[lonestarnot]

31. Enjoy your stay "morans."

[LaurenG]

32. So, they made a joke back at Kerry

I wish them well and would love to see them all home, silly sign and all.

[_dynamicdems]

45. Me too. I don't want to see any more lives lost or any more families in mourning.

They are probably catching Hell from the other members of their unit (the ones not in the photo) as we speak. That is punishment enough for a dumb stunt. Nobody deserves to be stuck in Iraq and I hope all of our men and women come safely home to their families.

[SammyWinstonJack]

48. I wish them no harm. It's their choice to be so deluded, I guess.

Pity that they don't recognize those who are trying to bring them back to their families in one piece, and support those who couldn't care less about them, instead. :shrug:

[LaurenG]

51. I think of it as severe brain washing

they hear the word democrat and they lose all sense of balance. I do think they were trying to be funny though.

[Beelzebud]

33. You reap what you sow. I don't feel much sympathy for the ones in that photo.

Sometimes you have to reap what you sow.

[jgraz]

34. These guys may be ignorant and misguided

but they're over there fighting -- putting their bodies where their beliefs are. If only we could send the rest of the freepers.

[geek tragedy]

35. They are human beings with families.

I won't gloat over their predicament because they held up a freaking sign.

[Buzz Clik]

78. Agreed.

[wellst0nev0ter]

80. Oh, I'm Not Gloating

I'm just very, very fucking pissed off right now. This is a highly politicized military in favor of the reich wing, don't make any mistake about that.

How many soldiers went against Commander-in-Chief Clinton when he proposed to lift the ban of gays in the military? And now the soldiers aren't permitted to speak against Bush, but they can hold his water in making fun of Kerry? Please.

[mmonk]

36. Joke's on them.

[Bluerthanblue]

37. they are pawns- and John Kerry is one of their best advocates

right now.

I hope he DOES help them. And all the other soldiers and civillians in this screwed up mess.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Fuck That.

Wishing such misery and sufferring on them because they took part in a light-hearted political jab, regardless of the level of bullshit it was, is beyond disgusting in my opinion.

Personally, I found the sentiment and tone within the OP to be as bad or worse than any other political sentiment from the other side I've seen. It disturbs me to no end that there are those that would be so selfish and hateful that they'd put forth or agree with such sentiments.

May God bless the troops and may ALL of them, every last ONE of them, regardless of politics, come home safely.

[wellst0nev0ter]

59. Hell, I Wish Misery And Suffering On The Whole Country

I hope this war is like chemotherapy, a poisonous treatment whose cure is that we never end up in another foreign entanglement of which we have no business being in. Sad to say that treatment will also include the troops.

I'm also sure that the troops are adult enough to handle one dissenting opinion from this civilian.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. "Hell, I Wish Misery And Suffering On The Whole Country" --- Ya Do Huh?

Well, in my objective, reasonable and rational opinion, only selfish, ignorant and worthless people ever wish suffering on masses.

I don't ever want to be associated with someone who carries such hatred and holds such views. I can think of nothing more vile.

Goodbye.

[wellst0nev0ter]

63. I Know You Put Me On Your Ignore List, MindCrime

That's unfortunate. But really, if this country escapes another foreign disaster without any palpable repercussions, just like they did in Vietnam, how long before they believe the myth that if only the dirty liberals haven't stopped us from glorious, glorious victory. Then the American public, goaded by the cockroach neocons, will sponsor another foolish adventure to God-knows-what country.

So you want to rescue this country from the Eye-Rack war, go ahead. Expect nothing but the renewal of the myth that liberals and Democrats reject the idea of victory. For me, however, this country should finally realize the consequences of its actions, in whatever forms it may come. Maybe then will this country become wise and stop ruling by the fiat of arrogance.

[uppityperson]

72. It has to get bad enough before the uprising happens, before enough say "enough"

and in the meantime, death, destruction, suffering.

[Stephanie]

74. Congratulations!

:toast:

Should we start a club?

[wellst0nev0ter]

81. Eh, Why Not?

All it took me is one reply and I didn't even make it ad hominem :hi:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

86. You Wished Suffering Upon All Americans. You Don't Think That's Worse?

Generally, those who are on my block list are there because they only know how to engage in petty, harassing and unwarranted childish attack and abuse while ignoring context altogether. They are there because they have shown too much immaturity to have the ability to engage in civil discussion.

You are the one exception. I will readily admit that I can't recall having conversed with you before and do not know the nature of your normal postings. But as a liberal and decent human being, I also find it contemptible to wish suffering upon an entire nation, even if the person making that wish feels the end justifies the means. Wanting people to wake up to the realities of this war and change their perceptions towards future forays is perfectly understandable and agreeable. But they need not have to go through suffering to arrive at that point, and wishing that upon them was very bothersome to me. I also found it disgraceful your sentiments in the OP to begin with. Sorry, but that's the truth.

In the future, you may be the one blockee that I may actually consider removing if I see a change from what I considered to be hateful and selfish rhetoric. But for now I just would rather not converse with someone who would wish suffering on an entire nation, for ANY reason. I hope you understand.

(On Edit: I know you could think "Hey! I thought you didn't want to converse! Why did you reply?" and wanted you to know that I did so because I thought it fair to supply and explanation to you of why, when you technically didn't wrong me personally in any way. Like I said, I may have been premature in blocking, or may not have been. I'll make that decision next week LOL)

[Stephanie]

89. He seems to have quite a long blocked list.

We'll need to rent a ballroom for our club meetings.

[wellst0nev0ter]

99. Mindcrime

Yes, I'll be the first to admit that I am a very pissed off, very cynical bastard who's likely to turn off most people he meets at random, but really, what's the alternative? Do you really think that if you help stopped the war people will thank you? You know perfectly well that the people behind this war are impervious to the power of persuasion. And the sheeple they've convinced who have now turned against this war will be easily convinced again that they could have won it IF those pink-tutu liberals haven't pulled the plug on their glorious victory, forgetting all the details on why the Eye-Rack war is unwinnable. Already a full 30 percent of Americans can't remember the year the date September the Eleventh happened.

Sure the Americans turned on Vietnam, but what happened next? Morning in America, Rambo movies and Eye-rack - twice. Maybe I may have been open to the suggestion that I'm too hard on this country, but yesterday at work I hear two co-workers discussing how they would solve the Eye-Rack problem. In short, it includes nukes, MOABs and the cities of Baghdad and Tikrit. No, the only way this country will learn from its mitakes if it it experiences the full consequences of its actions. No more kicking the can down the road, it's time for a learning curve.

And you don't have to worry about unignoring me. This will likely be my last post to you obliquely or otherwise. Have a nice life.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

102. "Have a nice life."

With all sincerity, you too.

But I pray that someday you will find yourself less bitter. I wish nothing but good things to come for you and sincerely hope that the day will come when you remember how to recognize the beauty all around you and the beautiful people that you encounter every day; many of which deserve no suffering (though I believe with only exception to a rare few that no one ever deserves to suffer).

Take care.

[uppityperson]

90. Congratulations

can we have a hot tub like the mods do?
:toast: :party:

[Stephanie]

92. You too?

Club meeting tomorrow night. You bring the chips, I'll bring the salsa.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

93. Actually,

That poster blocked me merely for sake of doing so, as there was no incivility on my part towards them. But we all know that some will be blocked for the wrong reasons, and I accept that. I know I've had a few productive conversations with that poster, but we've probably had more that weren't, so no real sweat off of my back.

Based on the seeming immaturity shown in this mini-subthread, however, it would seem to be blatantly clear to everyone else why you all are part of that club to begin with, with all due respect.

[uppityperson]

95. Indeed.

After a few go arounds, decided to try the new function and got tit for tat. Oh well. I'll undo when I can since it is just annoying and I can ignore on my own.

Edited to add, if I block someone again, will tell them before I do. Worth a try but annoying.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

97. Uppity, Just Know In Reference To Your Reply I Would Immediately Follow Suit.

I personally viewed you as someone that I can have at least some level of civil disagreement with, even if we passionately disagree. I don't mind such disagreements unless they turn into out and out harassment, which I don't recall being the case with you. I would not have chosen to block you on my own.

[grytpype]

39. Who's laughing now? ........... Uh, no one actually.

[Lex]

47. Yes, I'd like to feel smug about this, but I don't. Poor guys.

They don't know how badly they are screwing themselves by continuing to kiss Bush's ass.

____________________________

[sandnsea]

40. Maybe they'll make another sign

"Halp Us!" "Seereuslee!"

[_dynamicdems]

44. What is chilling about that photo is that we don't know if these 8 guys will even make it home.

They are there holding a sign and making fun of John Kerry without realizing they are poking fun at their own chances of suriving this hellish war. How sad and how terrifying is stupidity! These men are ignorant and they are blind. And they are stuck in Iraq. God help them. Bush won't.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. And that is exactly how troops deal with hellish

conditions... the gallows humor is not something to be repeated in polite company. I see that photo partially as gallows humor

[raysr]

56. They knew the job was dangerous

when they volunteered. How about a high scaler or steel worker that falls to his death, it's too bad, but he knew the risks going in.

[Sapphire Blue]

49. They are in hell on earth, w/rush limbaugh's perverted bs broadcast to them.

I wonder exactly what they actually know about what Kerry said?

[beachmom]

50. Are these guys at Bouquba Forward Operating Base by any chance?

Because when Kerry went to Iraq, he went there (outside the Green Zone, obviously). I read on a right wing blog (so take it with a grain of salt) that supposedly someone had that picture, and asked him to sign it, for which he did (and they said "to his credit", "he was a good sport"). I think out of everything that happened surrounding the joke, that picture was the least of it. I felt like these guys were NOT pissed about the joke, and were just having some fun. But I don't know the whole story. Active duty military are more conservative than the population -- I think they voted 57 - 41 in Bush's favor. Although it's not completely lopsided, it's more GOP than the 51 - 48 result countrywide. We just have to accept that this is the military.

Regardless of their political affiliation or the like, I hope they come home safely and soon. And John Kerry will continue to help them by fighting for veteran's issues and a good Iraq policy in the Senate.

[Marrah_G]

54. I don't care if they are Rebuplicans

I want to see every soldier and sailor come home safe to their families.

My brother is in harms way. He is an officer. I assume he is a democrat and I assume he is against the war, but I don't know for sure, because as an officer he does not speak about his political views. Even if he was a bushbot- kerry hating Freeper I would still want him home safe. I would still want his children to have a father and my sister-in-law to have a husband.

Those were 8 enlisted guys voicing their own views through humor. I don't share their views but they damn well have a right to that view, just as we have a right to ours. I don't wish any harm to come to them or their families because of thier own views, after all, they are force-fed the party line on a daily basis. Unlike us they don't have the luxury of sitting in a comfortable home roaming the internet, what they do have is the military party-line and right wing talk radio.

Shame on anyone wishing them harm.

[VOX]

55. They're youngsters far from home and full of swagger -- and they deserve to come home safely.

They are a big reason why the Iraq war is NOT worth fighting -- the brave young men and women and women in uniform deserve better than to be put in harm's way for no good reason.

And when they do come home (especially those who are disabled), they'll be virtually ignored and abandoned by the Republicans, because at that point, they'll be a liability in the right-wing agenda.

They are highly deserving of support now, and also later on, when they'll need help the most.

[Guaranteed]

57. They are stuck there. In Iraq. nt

[Deja Q]

58. Mispost

[bluewave]

60. BWAHAHAHA. Okay boys, you asked for it.

Owned.

[Swamp Rat]

62. sad

x(

[Rosemary2205]

64. The broad brush isn't really necessary is it??

the 1/34 BCT of the Minnesota National Guard is not all in that pic. There's only 8 guys in that pic........ You think the whole battalion deserves to be punished for the attitudes of 8??

I don't

[wellst0nev0ter]

65. If They Don't Deserve To Be Punished, They Are Certainly Free To Speak Up

or maybe they're not. Certainly those eight weren't restricted from airing their views on things.

[Rosemary2205]

68. Have you been in the military?

They are DEFINATELY restricted about what they can say about a sitting president and badmouthing your fellows in arms can lead to a friendly fire incident to say the least.

As far as whether or not they needed to defend John Kerry - I don't know about you but I think John Kerry can defend himself --

edited my title because it came out as an accusation or a loaded question instead of just a plain old question -- which is how I meant it. Sorry.

[wellst0nev0ter]

69. Nope, Can't Have Any Dissenters To The Chimp In Chief In The Military

And I'm certainly not asking them to trash Bush during the election. But they took the extra step and made a clearly political statement in defamation of a politician, in the attempt to give Bush a political boost. And now they are reaping the benefits of that support. If they don't like it, let them speak up now or forever hold their peace and make fun of Jon Carry.

[Rosemary2205]

77. You still are

mixing up the 8 who had something to say about John Kerry with the whole rest of the battalion who had no part in it. "THEY" are not reaping the benefits of support because 'THEY' had nothing to do with that whole thing.

[uppityperson]

67. Ooops. Hope you all survive with arms/legs/heads/minds intact

now excuse me while I snort at you.

[KingFlorez]

71. I guess that display of idiocy didn't do them any good

[Catherine Vincent]

73. Oh well...

shit happens. Thank your commander-in-chief.

[walldude]

75. They must be part of that 38% of the Military

who think the shrub is handling the war well. Good for them. Let the 60% who disagree with them come home and they can extend their tours all they want.

[spanone]

76. These 8 at least should be happy as clams.

[xultar]

84. Enjoy the extended tour fellas!

[Bobbie Jo]

85. Advice....don't throw away your sign guys...

You may need it. :wow:

[WilliamPitt]

87. Wow. Ugly sentiment you've expressed here.

I thought the sign was goddam hilarious when I saw it. Laughed my ass off. They have the right to say what they think...and it was pretty sharp.

You, here, seem to think that their expression of free speech earns them a chance to die, be maimed or kill. Even if I didn't find it funny, saying "Fuck em" to some guys who may be dead before springtime, just because they held up a sign you don't like, is pretty fucked up.

Decaf, friend. I don't think Wellstone would approve of your sentiments here.

[stanwyck]

88. Nevermind that Kerry's point was completely

warped. His intent, poorly executed, was that BUSH didn't do his homework and landed our troops in Iraq. The rightwing media took his misstatement and produced this huge propaganda blitz to show that Dems. don't respect the troops. Of course, they knew the real intent. Didn't matter.
"and you land in Iraq." Then Tony Snow, smart as he is, acted all disingenuous about "where exactly is the one word missing?" Uh, pretty plain to the rest of US. You land US in Iraq.
That's the point, isn't it? Those soldiers, the US, are landed in Iraq.
And you find their part in yet another deliberate smear "hilarious"? They were played. Again. They were lied into Iraq. There were lied into their little stunt with the Kerry sign. And now they've been lied into more time in that hellhole.
I have a Marine son on his third tour.
None of this is hilarious.

[bluewave]

91. Basically yeah. They made that sign in the midst of an election

and tried to influence the outcome. You can call it funny, but Kerry was a little hurt that people took it that way. I doubt any of these guys made a sign, or comment, against Bush.

I would have thought the sign funny if it wasn't nakedly political. F- them, I'll save my sympathy for the dead and the Iraqis living in this nightmare.

[TexasLawyer]

96. It wasn't related to the 2004 election

This happened just a few months ago.

[bluewave]

98. The 2006 elections.

I'm talking about the 2006 elections.

[wellst0nev0ter]

101. Sorry, I Don't Find Slander Hilarious

especially when it's aimed towards those who are trying to help them.

Sorry, but it's obvious that they are grown adults, they have made the decision to fight and support Bush's grand adventure, some more actively than the others. I've also made my decision, no more holding their hands or feeling sorry for them. No, Wellstone is a bigger man than I am, but after 4th ID, Abu Ghraib, Haditha, Abeer, and countless other atrocities and misconduct, I've come to doubt my unconditional support for the troops.

Then I watched a neutral documentary that purported to show the "good" that the troops are doing, till they got to a scene where they are trying to root out an Al Qaeda mole among the Iraqi councilmen. They way they paraded and humiliated the councilmen, forcing them as a group to kneel while being interrogated outside just turned me off completely.

The sign was just one more act of immature ignorance and was just one more nail in the coffin already buried.

[TexasLawyer]

94. I bet these guys didn't understand

the nature of Kerry's botched joke. Who is going to explain it to them out there? To be fair, I myself was mad at Kerry about insulting the troops until I read a post here on DU that explained word for word what Kerry had intended to say.

"You get stuck in Iraq" versus "You get US stuck in Iraq" ohhhhh! It was an insult hurled at Bush, not at the troops.

Our soldiers are a little too busy with survival to delve into the nuances of John Kerry's oratory mistakes. If someone insulted my intelligence I might make a sarcastic sign like that. I thought it was kind of funny.

[wellst0nev0ter]

100. They Weren't Too Busy To Make That Stupid Sign

They bedded the Bush, they lie in his piddle. Simple as that.