The Coming "What Are We Going To Do About George" Problem

[Me.]

It's there, looming even if unacknowledged, the coming constitutional crisis/confrontation. You can feel and smell it coming. Signing statements, a willy nilly attitude towards the laws of the land, the looting of our treasury. He's kicked sand in the faces of Poppy's men and is doing "a heckuva job" of destroying the military. Do they even have 20,000 men to surge with? He's gone round the bend and everybody knows it even if most on his side of the blanket won't say it outright. He's the kid who brings a jar of ant to the picnic and they're going to have to do something about him. The only questions in my mind are: what is going to be the spark that finally ignites the bonfire of the vanities and what will they do about him? Will it fall to the publicans, who will be desperate to save the party, will they do a Nixon on him? Will he have to be frogmarched out? How will they do it? When McCain & Lieberman are practically the only rats who haven't jumped ship, he should know he's in trouble, but his delusions won't allow him to see that.

My prediction: His will be a term interruptus

[Phredicles]

1. I hope you're right - I don't want to see the additional damage

The Decider could cause in two more years. I do think it's at least possible the Rethuglicans will see him as enough of a liability to throw him under the proverbial bus, if not through impeachment (still my first choice), then possibly a resignation for "health reasons".

[Me.]

3. My Feeling

Is that it may be more forceful than "health reasons" (though he doesn't look good) because, given his mental state, I just can't see him agreeing to go quietly into that good night.

[JohnnyLib2]

8. "...can't see him agreeing to go quietly"

I sure agree with that. He does not have Nixon's acumen in counting votes; he has only stubborness and whatever limited brain cells. It is up to others.

[Jackpine Radical]

34. Nor "gentle" into that good night

(as Dylan Thomas wrote it, iirc)

[Me.]

37. Yes It Is Dylan Thomas

Paraphrased

[Jackpine Radical]

38. Sorry--I mistook the paraphrase for a misquote.

;)

[Me.]

39. It's Not Like It Doesn't Happen

:hi:

[Gman]

2. Which would make Reagan and Eisenhauer

the only 2 republic presidents to completely serve out their two terms in the last 100 years (IIRC).

[Me.]

4. Technically I believe You're Right

But was Reagan actually "there" during that second term? I would bet dollars to donuts he was already being seriously affected by the disease and others took over for the most part. (if this supposition is true, that would have been illegal and he should have been removed from office). It seems like the history of publican presidents in the last 100 years has the potential to be more a reporting of criminality and wrong doing than anything else.

[Jackpine Radical]

35. Pedantry night for me, I guess.

I think Ike spelled it "Eisenhower" although your spelling is no doubt the way his German ancestors did it.

[ThoughtCriminal]

5. Cheney First

Replacing the "George Problem" without first taking care of the "Dick Problem" is not going to be an improvement. The GOP needs another Ford scenario (complete with blanket pre-emptive pardons) to make it edible.

[teamster633]

7. Edible to whom?

That pardon thing gives me indigestion.

[Vincardog]

9. The Ford pardon thing is what enabled GHWB and gave us the Convicts and gWB.

We do not need a pardon we need investigation impeachment indictments and convictions. We need to remove the cancer that is neoConservatism from our government forever.

[Me.]

13. So True

All during the Ford funeral when the pundits had gone all gooey eyed and talked about how he had issued a pardon in the best interests of the country I wanted to smack them upside their heads. The Nixon pardon let a criminal of the highest order off without any consequences, a lesson Cheney carried forward and taught junior. Secondly, as you point out, it left an infrastructure in place that has led to an admin, which is even more egregious than Nixon's, and who ever thought that would be possible.

[Vincardog]

24. Which is exactly why we have to expose and excise the malignant cancer that macerates as

NeoConservatives. They are CRIMINALS

[Me.]

11. Regarding Cheney

His problems really begin, I believe, when I Liar Libby's trial begins in 10 days.

[307 MMS]

17. Cheney

Let's face it, folks. Cheney is the root to all this mess. Watch "the Darkside" on PBS. It lays it right out like the MSM won't.
Here's a senario for ya....
Cheney resigns over the impending Scooter Libby trial. Bush picks McCain as his VP. Bush is then forced to resign or face impeachment over this debacle and McCain becomes prez.
All I can think of anymore is Kerry's statement to Congress in '71:
"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake".

[Me.]

18. I Don't Know That They Can Hold Their Noses Tightly Enough

to allow neoliberal, war hawk, crazy man McCain in. I seriously think he's going off the rails too. I think they'll go the harmless route and put Condi in. The coverage for the 1st female veep would be a major distraction from the ills of the land. Negroponte is already in place to take over from her.

[307 MMS]

19. McCain

Good observation ME. I was just throwin' out a senario to get some feedback and it's good feedback. Thanks.

[Me.]

20. Anytime

:think:

[WiseButAngrySara]

28. Thanks for the reminder re: The Darkside. Have bookmarked. n/t

[Mme. Defarge]

6. The first time I saw "All the President's Men"

I was impressed by the scenes of how fearful certain individuals were of talking about what was really going on in the Nixon administration. Just try to imagine the depth and breadth of the fear that is behind the scenes in Washington today. Try to imagine the paranoidal tone of the backroom, off the record conversations that are going on all over the capitol. I hope I live long enough to see the movie.

[zippy890]

10. The fear behind the scenes in Washington

that you speak of - must be far more intense than in the Nixon years. The paranoia in the backroom incredible to imagine.

Once the story finally gets out, it will be quite the tale.

I agree with the OP that bush will not finish his last 2 years. He is incompetent and worse, it will be interesting to see how the powerbrokers in WH handle this situation.

[Dan]

12. I never would have thought it...

but, if he keeps messing with the military, we might see a ...Coup

[liam_laddie]

15. The military MUST stand up...

so the bushbots can be stood down! WAY down...where it's hot.
:evilgrin:

[Jackpine Radical]

36. Bullshit. The civilian leadership & the citizenry need to stand up.

I don't want the precedent of a politically active military under any circumstances.

[Me.]

16. A Not Unreasonable Conjecture

He & Rummie have done their best to destroy the army...bad body armor, bad food, bad water, tanks without protection, machinery wearing out, men & women being wounded and dying needlessly.....they've fired some of the best men and left the yes boys...how long will the military put up with this?

[Phredicles]

22. And that's the one thing worse than leaving these nutbags in place.

That would be the official end of America was we know it.:scared:

[NCarolinawoman]

27. The military is sworn to protect the Constitution and

not the President. And there lies the dilemma. The Constitution would not allow them to stage a coup.

But would a mass resignation of military brass before we attack Iran help bring attention to the problem? The resignations have already started, of course. But since the problem is both Bush AND Cheney, it becomes very complex.

My head is spinning. :crazy:

[Dan]

32. I disagree...

What is the military responsibility when a (now, future, or past) president is violating the Constitution; And by his/her actions dictates that the military perform acts of aggression? Suppose Mr. Bush determines that a way of maintaining control or power is to escalate the conflict in the middle east by attacking Iran - as a means of avoiding possible impeachment, what roles or responsibility does the military have - just to act without consideration? Should the military be a party to a president desire to pursue wars of aggression as a means of avoiding accountability?

[Me.]

33. Thoughts To Consider

It seems to me as the oath lists defending the Constitution as the first order of business, that is where the first loyalty should lay.


“The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)”

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/faq/oaths.htm

“Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#A2Sec2

“During the Iran-Contra hearings of 1987, Senator Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, a decorated World War II veteran and hero, told Lt. Col. Oliver North that North was breaking his oath when he blindly followed the commands of Ronald Reagan. As Inouye stated, "The uniform code makes it abundantly clear that it must be the Lawful orders of a superior officer. In fact it says, 'Members of the military have an obligation to disobey unlawful orders.' This principle was considered so important that we-we, the government of the United States, proposed that it be internationally applied in the Nuremberg trials." (Bill Moyers, "The Secret Government", Seven Locks Press; also in the PBS 1987 documentary, "The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis"cont…

“Over the past year there have been literally thousands of articles written about the impact of the coming war with Iraq. Many are based on politics and the wisdom of engaging in an international war against a country that has not attacked the U.S. and the legality of engaging in what Bush and Rumsfield call "preemptive war." World opinion at the highest levels, and among the general population, is that a U.S. first strike on Iraq would be wrong, both politically and morally. There is also considerable evidence that Bush's plans are fundamentally illegal, from both an international and domestic perspective. If the war is indeed illegal, members of the armed forces have a legal and moral obligation to resist illegal orders, according to their oath of induction.”

http://electroniciraq.net/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/6/265

[Hubert Flottz]

14. Bush is every bit as batty as Hitler became in the end.

And he, like Hitler, has a core crew, of maniacs that will go down into the fuhrer-bunker with him.

[catmandu57]

21. When this goes it's going to be fast

I hope it just gives us enough time to react in a sensible manner. By this spring the weight of investigations may be so heavy we see both of these criminals gone, both of them in a very short time, condi is just as dirty, she's gone as well.
What I hope happens is the reptiles slithering through the senate become so feared for their very survival that they force a resignation and name a replacement, but, it's possible that this whole government will collapse faster than a third world dictatorship.

[Me.]

30. It Will Accelerate

and go fast once it starts, really starts. I agree with you there.

[warpheads]

23. The Democrats Knew...

and Peloski says impeachment is not on the addenda??? Read on:

Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney Makes the Case for Impeachment
by David Swanson | Jan 6 2007 - 10:35am | permalink
article tools: email | print | read more David Swanson

As some people learned from the minimal and abusive media coverage, on

December 8, 2006, Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney introduced Articles of

Impeachment against President George W. Bush, making him the 10th

president of the United States to face such action. Of course, McKinney

was on her way out of office and thus more willing to challenge the

Democratic Party leadership by upholding basic Constitutional principles.

Fewer people are aware that Congresswoman McKinney on December 27, 2006,

entered into the Congressional Record (pages E2253 - 2255) extended

remarks on impeachment that merit our close attention. Why would she do

such a thing on her way out the door with no chance of reintroducing her

bill in the new Congress? For one thing, she clearly would agree with the

response Congressman John Conyers gave to Lewis Lapham when asked what he

thought the point was of publishing a lengthy report laying out evidence

of Bush's impeachable offenses. Conyers' response was: "to take away the

excuse that we didn't know."
(In short; the Democrats knew all along they were never going to investigate, impeach, or make any changes to the growing police state this country is turning into. And with this; voting is irrelevant. Time for something else.)

[WiseButAngrySara]

29. Voting is irrelevant? Time for what? Revolution! LOL! ....n/t

[Generic Brad]

25. I think W will make that decision for the country on his own

With every day the possibility that he refuses to vacate the White House when his term ends becomes closer to actuality. He will not go away gracefully and will force the hand of the people currently giving him a free ride, imho.

[WiseButAngrySara]

26. Big clue to me is the 'resignation' of SCOTUS interuptus

nominee Harriet Miers; she's not up to snuff for the "shit storm" they are anticipating. I think you might be correct. But, Hail to Chief Cheney? God save us all from that!

[rman]

31. Not that we don't have a solution to that problem,

nor is it a problem that has yet to arrive; it's been a problem for at least 3 years.

But some would have it that the solution would "divide" the nation.

[Jack Rabbit]

40. Lock him in the attack with raving Aunt Maggie

[Me.]

41. Anything

Don't care what, how, where or when, just so long as they do it. And sooner rather than later.