So, dems are bashing Cindy Sheehan now, telling her to shut up

[specimenfred1984]

when all she's doing is protesting the "war" and grieving her dead son.

Pitiful, just fcking pitiful.

[paulk]

1. well, she's bashing them

turnaround's fair play.

[xultar]

2. Where do you buy your fire retardant outfits? emphasis on retardant

BUHWAWAWA!

[Rosemary2205]

8. You crack me up.

:loveya:


hope mom is doing good today and you slept last night.

[xultar]

9. You're sweet. Nope didn't sleep but called to day and mom's was out in the street.

So she's fine...she should have stayed in with the concussion but she's hard headed for DAYUM sure.

[fooj]

24. Is your mom ok?

Hope all is well...

:hug:

[cynatnite]

3. Which dems?

Are you talking about dems in DC or the ones here at DU? Just some that disagree with some of what she says.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lancdem]

5. I sympathize with Mrs. Sheehan

but I think a lot of people are just plain tired of her, me included. Let the new Congress at least get its feet wet before protesting it.

[Diane R]

17. I agree with you. And my brother was a Vietnam war casualty, too.

I know some of that sorrow and outrage. But the dems haven't even been sworn in yet. Exactly what does she think they can do? And, the bush idiot is still 'the decider'. They are going to try, but they need some time to turn the ship around.

[Morgana LaFey]

29. What they can DO is

be put on notice that we're not going to take NO for an answser re stopping this friggin' war.

I think a harsh little reminder is a very GOOD thing.

[Beaverhausen]

6. Some of us disagree with what she did today,

that isn't the same as telling her to "shut up." Get it?

[xultar]

7. This OP is going for "Best Flamebait Poster in a Dramatic Series!!!!!!!!!111111111!!!"

[ronnykmarshall]

14. and the Emmy goes to .....

[LSK]

10. who ?

[SaveElmer]

11. She's had her 15 minutes...

If she wants to protest the war, she should take a one mile trip up Pennsylvania Ave where the man responsible lives...

[verse18]

12. She's tried, and he won't speak to her.

What's the alternative?

[bahrbearian]

16. And HRC isn't an Enabler?

[SaveElmer]

18. No...nt

[PassingFair]

39. The ENABLERS within our own party need to hear her, too.

Not all of our representatives voted against Chimpy's little
invasion. Or haven't you heard?

[SaveElmer]

43. Sure I have...

However your sweeping characterization of them as enablers is incorrect!!!

[PassingFair]

44. Ok, call them "YES VOTERS" if it makes you feel better. n/t

[shance]

45. Elmer, have you had your son murdered for a total lie? A profitable lie?

If not, please, shut the fuck up.

[SaveElmer]

47. If that is the case with you...

I am very sorry for your loss...

However that does not change my opinion...she is hurting the cause she is working for. Attacking the wrong people, in the wrong way, and allying herself with people like Hugo Chavez only causes people to dismiss anything she has to say...

She is getting some very bad advice!!!

[bdamomma]

66. she did meet with him but she wants to meet with him again

not only for her son, but those who are going through the same thing as she is. Let her keep pressure on this administration.
She is on her mission let her complete it.

[bluewave]

13. We shouldn't argue about this.

I'm a supporter of Sheehan. But the people disagreeing with Sheehan, I believe, have the best intentions and want the same things we want. I can understand their fear of damage done by Sheehan. Even though I disagree with that reasoning, I still like thank all of them because they believe they are doing what is in the best interest of their country, just as I do in myself.

Can't we all agree that we (even the Sheehan critics), not the Fundies and NeoNuts, want what's best for humanity?

[Reterr]

15. kr.eom

[David__77]

19. I support Cindy Sheehan. The Democrats need left opposition desperately.

Left opposition is good for the left and progressives, which is good for Democrats in the final analysis. The Democrats are currently abetting the Iraq occupation in the active sense. They have the power to seriously hamper the war but have abdicated that power. People of conscience against the war have a right and duty to protest that, while recognizing the the Bush regime is the main enemy.

[paulk]

21. "they have the power to seriously hamper the war

but have abdicated that power".

What power is that? Bush is CIC. Republicans controlled Congress until today.

Sheehan protests the Democrats before they've even taken control - what possible good does that do Democrats?

[David__77]

22. The Democratic leadership abdicated the power "before they even took control."

They've stated "no defunding" of the war. That is their power in the constitution. The cic can only order the military to do this or that, but what does this mean if there is no money to do it?

If the Democratic leadership is taking this important decision "before they've even taken control," why shouldn't war opponents like Sheeham protest this vigorously?

[EstimatedProphet]

23. Remind me never to let you sit on a jury trying me

because I'll be condemned for crimes before I commit them!

[David__77]

27. You must not oppose the war...

If you did, you would agree that it is correct to protest the preordained decree by the Democratic leadership that the war will be funded.

The Democratic leadership's statements deserve strong protest. There is nothing to "wait for" - they have already stated their position.

What's so hard to grasp here?

[In Truth We Trust]

38. You are quite correct both factually and, imo intellectually as well.

I love how the tag team that disagreed with you did not refute the facts but instead attacked the messenger. How admirable.

[rinsd]

72. What facts did the poster offer?

Seriously he thinks convicted genocidal dictators are okay if acting on behalf of leftist ideology so his thoughts on the Dems actions all of 3 hours into their rule are somehow a betrayal neither shocks me nor do I take it seriously.

[EstimatedProphet]

40. Give them a chance to fail!

I don't buy for one minute that they are going to fight stopping the war. That's absurd, and if they do, then we let them have it. But attacking them before they have had a chance to do anything is absurd.

[paulk]

34. well, what else can be expected from a poster

who thinks that Robert Mugabe is a swell guy...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2563886#2564296

[David__77]

48. Sophomoric tactic...

My opposition to Western aggression against Zimbabwe is fully consistent with my opposition to the aggression against Iraq. But your polemical tactic is weak indeed.

[paulk]

62. like I've said before -

Do you get this stuff out of some "manual for armchair revolutionaries" or do you come up with it yourself?

[rinsd]

73. Mugabe?

Mugabe barely registers with me after the poster's apologetics on behalf of this swell fellow

http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/143831/1/

[paulk]

75. Mengistu?

I guess I missed that one.

Of course, if the brutal third world dictator in question was "opposing Anglo-American subversion in (insert country here)", our friend would somehow find his way to supporting said dictator, so I'm not surprised...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. Dems?

[Tom Joad]

25. Why should she bash the party whose leaders promise not to defund the war?

okay, maybe that's a reason.

[nini]

26. Who told her to shut up?

That's NOT what anyone wants.


Choosing the best methods and times to get her message across is the point trying to be made.


I don't want her to shut up - I want her to be right on target with her message AND I want it to be heard not lost in the hype.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. Yes, she should shut up.

And I say this as someone who is grieving for his own loss. This shit is fucking ridiculous.

[elehhhhna]

30. Yes, we should all mind our own business and ignore that silly war.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

31. I'm still waiting for the "anti-war movement" to have its first success.

It's been three years now. Their track record is on par with Bush's, in terms of actual success.

[PassingFair]

57. And Susan B. Anthony DIED before women got the vote.

After devoting almost her ENTIRE adult life to that end.

Your point is?

[Ms. Clio]

64. no point, apparently

while yours was dead on.

Seneca Falls Convention = 1848

19th Amendment = 1920

[elehhhhna]

61. if you have a better way to get the publics attention, have at it.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

65. I think the public has been paying attention to the war.

Or did you miss the last election?

[PassingFair]

68. That was a WAR vote?

I thought the public were voting for Rahm Emmanuel and Chuck Schummer.

:eyes:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

70. Say whatever you want about it.

I think you've been watching CNN for too long.

[elehhhhna]

71. and who helped put those ever-growing numbers of dead soldiers into their minds? Rumsfeld?

Check back on the news during summer '05 and get real.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

74. Well...

Actually, I'd suggest that the multitude of serious investigative journalists who actually went to Iraq and risked their lives and died to bring back the story had a bit more to do with it than the people carrying "W stands for Warmonger" signs in the streets of DC on the weekends, risking no more than a possible speeding ticket on the way home.

And I say that as someone who carried a "W stands for Warmonger" sign in the streets in 2002 and 2003 before realizing what an utter waste of time it was.

How do you explain that the American public only turned against the war literally years after the anti-war movement was at its rather lackluster peak? The anti-war movement loves to take credit where none is actually due. Cindy Sheehan was the only anti-war protester who ever made a goddamn dent, and it was all down to the fact that ordinary people identified with her in a way they would never identify with me or your or any other anti-war activist. The astonishingly selfish rush by certain factions of the anti-war movement (and certain of the other usual suspects) to co-opt her campaign for their own egotistical ends was nothing short of disgraceful, and totally ruined whatever chance her campaign had to make a lasting impact. The anti-war movement is a failure. It has nothing to show for its efforts. It utterly failed to achieve its stated goal. And now, in retrospect, when the truth of this awful war has become so clear that only a few deny it, they chose to claim credit for waking up the American people? Nonsense. As far as I'm concerned the anti-war movement is an unmitigated disaster that has accomplished nothing and convinced nobody. With the exception of a very few people like Cindy Sheehan it was a cheap sham run by self-righteous charlatans with nothing at risk.

Edit to add:

I know this all sounds like a pretty harsh slam directed at the anti-war movement, and it is. Well, at least at the people running the show and trying their hardest to convince all of us that we were actually doing some good. I remember being at a march in San Francisco, probably a month or two before the war began. Must have been a good 200,000+ people there. I was standing next to a friend of mine who was about to go off and get herself arrested for blocking the entrance to the Bechtel building in downtown San Francisco, and I asked her, "What the fuck are we doing here? What does this accomplish? Who are we convincing except ourselves?" She replied that it didn't matter who we convinced so long as we stood up and had our voices heard. That, to her, was enough. But it didn't matter. We were talking to ourselves. We were yelling slogans at people who felt exactly the same way we did. And sure, we could shut down Bechtel HQ for two hours, then spend a night in jail. Did it matter? Did it make a difference to anybody? Did it stop the war?

Two hundred thousand people in downtown San Francisco. We could have shut down the entire city for days. We could have done the same in DC and New York if we wanted to. But we didn't. And we won't. And we never will. Because we were not the ones at risk. It's easy to carry a sign or spend a night in jail. It's easy to shut down a recruitment center for a few hours. But we weren't the ones being sent off to die, and so despite how we all felt, there wasn't one goddamn person in that see of two hundred thousand who had half the balls or the guts of the guy who stood up to the tank in Tianenmen Square in '89. And everybody who watched the rally on TV that night from the comfort of their own homes knew it, and knew we didn't really care enough.

[femrap]

32. We all grieve in our own ways. I believe Cindy

is doing what she can to stop any further deaths from this war.

And last I heard, dissent is still part of the American way. And so is free speech.

She wants to remind our Representatives that that is exactly what they are....our Representatives. And most Americans do not agree with this war.

[entanglement]

58. self delete

[Individualist]

33. DLC and their supporters despise Cindy

Damn them all with their subservience to the corporate war machine!

[k_jerome]

35. looks to me like she is bashing Democrats. nt.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

36. Thank you. I share your disgust.

[Imagevision]

Cindy's doing a fine job, how many here had loved ones blown up?? any?

[NastyRiffraff]

37. I don't dislike Cindy...

..far from it. I think she's done a lot of good in keeping this important issue front and center.

BUT...(and you knew there had to be a but)...I don't think she's a saint. I don't think she's incapable of making mistakes, sometimes big ones. I don't think she knows everything, and I think often she doesn't think things through (or as someone said elsewhere, has had "bad advice")

I thoroughly sympathize with her loss, and that may explain some things. But it doesn't endow her with sainthood, or omnipotence.

[PassingFair]

41. No one is calling her a saint or a swami.

Would you have us gag and bind her for you?



No one ever said she is "incapable of making mistakes".

You sympathize with her loss?

How HUMANE of you.

[NastyRiffraff]

53. And I never said anything about "gagging and binding:"

You may feel Cindy is the next thing to a goddess; I do not. I think she made a mistake here, as she has before. And that is MY right. Yes, I have the very same right to speak my mind as Cindy does. You, of course, have the right to disagree. As I do with Cindy in this case.

Clear enough?

[PassingFair]

55. I don't think she is a goddess.

I never said anything even REMOTELY like that.

She is a mother who has lost her child in an illegal
and immoral war that was given a green light by members
of our own party. Some of whom STILL stand behind that
cynical and craven vote.

I think she has EVERY right to speak out.

Clear enough?

[LSK]

42. alrighty then, a drive by poster with no responses to a simple question

WHO??????

[novalib]

46. DisFUCKINGgusting!!!!

ANYONE who tells Cindy Sheehan -- CINDY SHEEHAN!! -- to shut up is TRULY disgusting!!

Cindy spoke the TRUTH TO POWER when almost no one else would!!!

Cindy went to Crawford to speak the TRUTH TO POWER and to RAISE AWARENESS of the ILLEGAL WAR OF AGGRESSION!!

And now there are people who are telling Cindy to SHUT UP!!

It's DISGUSTING DisFUCKINGgusting!!!!!!!!

[David__77]

49. Not just telling her to shut up, but thoroughly condemning her!

One poster actually compares her with fascist anti-gay zealot Fred Phelps:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3039529#3039548

[novalib]

51. UnFUCKINGbelievable!!

I can't believe my EYES!!

Phelps is the lowest of the low!!!

Cindy is a TRUE patriot who lost her own SON in this ILLEGAL WAR of AGGRESSION!!!

[KT2000]

50. People seem not to understand

that Cindy Sheehan is an anti-war activist. She is not a partisan activist. Why partisan's would expect her to tailor her speech for the sake of partisanship are not being realistic.
She has been consistent and true since the beginning.

Issue first? Party first?? Cindy has made her decision as we all must.

[David__77]

52. Note too she did not do this during the election.

I would be more sympathetic to those irritated by this if this were, say, late October. But it's not.

[zulchzulu]

54. If I could, I'd be standing right next to her

Busy with life here...but hey, she needs to do what she has to do.

Imagine people telling MLK or any other protestor to shut up... this is no time to be a shrinking violet.

[GeorgeGist]

56. God forbid...

the Dems feet be held to the fire before they've proven they have a spine. Thank you, Cindy et al.

[Nutmegger]

59. Dems better make good on their promise to resolve this Iraq debacle

Because if they don't even at least try (meaning, pushing something through knowing it will get vetoed), there will be a lot of pissed off voters including me.

Iraq played a huge part in the mid-terms. What more do they need?

I stand with Cindy. They need to be harassed every damn day.

[JeremyWestenn]

60. Pitiful is making a fool out of yourself,

To the point that the mainstream on both parties are turned off by the women. Playing your cards so poorly when you could have become an unstoppable force is pitiful. Just. Fucking. Pitiful.

[Freddie Stubbs]

63. There is a time and place for everything

It would appear that Ms. Sheehan needs to learn that.

[Norquist Nemesis]

67. That's how I think of it

I wouldn't tell her to "shut up". I just disagree with her method.

[ulysses]

69. when would be the time and place to talk about the truth of Iraq?

"Time and place" my ass.