People, it's just Gerald Ford

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/steinberg/195058,CST-NWS-stein03.article

Tell me I'm not alone here. Please. Tell me that, like me, you were slightly taken aback to wake up Tuesday and find it a national day of mourning, with the markets closed and mail delivery suspended.

All for Jerry Ford.

Don't get me wrong. Good guy, Ford. Served his moment on the world stage well, or well enough. Deserving of our respect.

But c'mon! The man was 93. A ripe old age. I'd sign up for 93 right now, and so would you. All these ceremonies -- seven full days of tribute and prayer, pomp and circumstance. And this is the stripped-down version, supposedly, streamlined at Ford's request. I'd hate to see what they would have done otherwise -- flown in the pope, tolled the Liberty Bell, dressed George W. Bush in sackcloth and ashes.

This is un-American, this groveling at the feet of lost kings, and I blame Princess Di -- her funeral left us, like the Victorians, addicted to cemeterial splendor. Votive candles flickering in the rain and black crepe, pipe organ dirges and riderless horses. I wouldn't be surprised if they raise an obelisk to Ford, surrounded by statues of veiled ladies, sprawled with grief and labeled "Sorrow" and "Loss" and such.

Let's not even go into the grim specifics -- George H.W. Bush telling mourners how Almighty God spared Ford in World War II so he could eventually lead this nation. (A bad road to go down, since it raises the question of why couldn't the Lord also have had pity on the 50 million or so who perished in World War II while He was mucking about in human affairs, looking out for Jerry Ford.)

[helderheid]

1. here is the reaction from my local mom's group:

response 1: Gosh, I only work for the state government. LOL....But, I have to say that I find it peculiar that he didn't do this for Reagan. Am I the only one who is wondering why one and not the other?


response 2: Yeah that brought up on another list I’m on. Seems that the man that his father worked for should have gotten the same respect.


response 3: You would think so huh?

[KoKo]

23. Interesting and Good Point. They didn't declare Holiday for St. Ronnie

but for Ford. It is curious...and if he's that sick in the head about his Dad it's pretty incredible.

I wonder if it could also have some kind of tie in about "Impeachment." They are spinning how great it was that Ford pardoned Nixon to heal the country...making a "set up" just in case they end up in the same situation as Nixon.

The Media coverage I saw didn't dig deeply enough into Nixon's Crime and draw connections that those who weren't around then might need to know. Maybe I missed some in-depth retrospectives about Nixon's crimes against Democrats and the Country, though.

One would have thought that they wouldn't have wanted to have too much attention on Ford given the reason he became President...but with the Media on their "short leash" the Bushies probably felt things were well under control. :-(

[northzax]

25. um, yes, Reagan got the same treatment

lying in state, state funeral, national day of mourning. I know, I had the day off.

[helderheid]

42. I didn't remember the post office closing but...

my memory sucks.

[H2O Man]

63. It is the exact same

for every president.

[Dorian Gray]

164. As it should be...

even if it means that I will have to hold my nose through the funeral of some.

[Ouabache]

160. Ford never gave postal workers a raise - that is why the day off

If the dead president gave postal workers a raise while he was president they have to work through his funeral, otherwise they get the day off. You can look it up.

[maxsolomon]

2. the GOP rehabilitating its image

any chance to present the proles with a stirring display of patriotism, american pomp, power & moral rectitude. the BFEE are good guys after all - see how sad they look? what more do you want?

when James Earl Carter dies (he will, you know) will the banks & markets close for 2 days? or 3?

he WAS elected, after all.

[Ian David]

3. Gerald Ford kept half this administration from going to jail.

And you know, right up until Papa Bush's eulogy about how wonderful The Warren Commission was, I used to ridicule the those who thought The CIA was involved in The Kennedy Assassination. Now, I'm not so sure that Der Broccolifuhrer wasn't involved after all.

[dogday]

10. Poppy's speech about Ford putting his signature

to the Warren Commission Report was enough for me to gag...

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. I'm reminded of the "WIN" button.

And "NY can drop dead". Truly a man for the ages, I'm surprised it wasn't 4 weeks of mourning with a "surge" at the end.

[Phredicles]

8. My position on Ford had been, "He meant well";

but to be fully honest I need to be more explicit: "He meant well, but he messed up badly".

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. And for that he is treated like a dead Pharaoh.

The whole Saturday Night Live thing is being played down now like it was all misguided and unnecessarily cruel. As I recall, at the time it seemed very mild compared to what everybody was thinking about that doofus.

Ford wasn't even elected by anybody, & when he tried, he lost.

We would have never needed to be treated to a shit bird like ford had the US avoided ever electing that bastard nixon, but that's another story.

[Vexatious Ape]

5. That's right, it is un-American.

And if I hear one more time how Ford did the right thing for this country by pardoning a thug, I'll puke blood.

[AnneD]

15. I'm with you on that one...

Didn't think it was right then and still don't think it was right. This is why Jr is getting away with so much-he can be pardoned. If you know you can get off scott free and live like a king for the rest of your days-where is the incentive to do right. Junior is the direct result on Ford's pardon. He was a good guy and worthy of my thanks and respect, but he was out of his league when it came to running the country. He truly would have been a better majority or minority leader.

[SoCalDem]

77. Yep.. Jerry was the "pound cat" who was brought home

to patrol the litter box and cover up what the other lazy cats left unburied..

[AnneD]

86. Like the analogy,

love the pic.

[Sequoia]

6. I, for one, thought closing the post offices was really stupid.

Did we do this for Reagan? Seems we spent more time on Ford just on and on. I didn't watch any funeral proceedings. Is he related to Henry Ford?

[TwilightZone]

7. You blame Princess Di? Hate to break it to you, but it's been around a lot longer than that.

Celebrity/hero/leader worship has been around as long as the respective targets of said worship.

[jobycom]

19. Very true. Check out the Pyramids. nt

[Missy M]

9. I agree with the writer...

I only watched a very short time but told the person I watched it with that it looked like a royal funeral and except for a gilded horse drawn carriage, it was as much pomp and circumstance as if it were the Queen of England. I wish Almighty God had spared my family memeber killed in WWII, he might have been president one day.

[NRaleighLiberal]

11. That Ford has this much attention and our 3000+ dead can't even

be discussed is, to me, a major crime. It is a sign as to how pathetic our American Culture has become.

[neoblues]

28. M$M vs Culture...

There ought to be a difference, but one wonders...

[onenote]

12. the author should study history before making faulty assumptions

The author can blame Princess Di all he wants, but the fact is that the multi-day state funeral for Gerald Ford is nothing new. To give just one example, out of many, when Herbert Hoover died in 1964, there was nearly a week of ceremonies/services/etc before he was laid to rest. He was 90 years old and had left office 31 years earlier.

I recall there being extensive television coverage. As extensive as what we've seen this week? Probably not, but television is a completely different animal today than it was 30 plus years ago.

The point is that former presidents, whether assasinated in the prime of their life or those that died years later, those who were well loved/respected and those who were not all that highly regarded, traditionally are laid to rest in extended multi-day events with considerable pomp and circumstance. Dates back way before Princess Di.

[NNN0LHI]

22. Herbert died about noon on October 20. He was pushing up daisys on the 25th

And he was elected.

Don

[onenote]

33. so what. Rosa Parks died on Oct 24 and wasn't interred until Nov 2

And I think that was perfectly appropriate given the need for her body to be honored in Alabama, Washington DC, and Detroit. Well, Ford had ceremonies in California, DC and Michigan, which also was appropriate.

Seems like you're quibbling. The fact is that Presidents have been buried with extended services, often in more than one city, and with great pomp and circumstance, since long before Princess Di's death.

[eleny]

13. A last ditch effort to alter the Republican reputation

So, they had to milk it for everything they could.

[NRaleighLiberal]

16. ...entire event perfectly summed up by the performance of the bagpiper,

to me. I mean no disrespect - but for what the Republicans have put the country through recently I have no great amount of respect to show for any of them....

[jobycom]

17. No, no, you miss the point. This is a genuinely American strategy.

A small story. The Texas Textbook Board (or whatever it's called) decides whether each textbook presented to it is appropriate for students of Texas. You'd think they would judge this books on effectiveness, perhaps entertainment value to some degree, and most of all, accuracy. But you'd be wrong.

One American history textbook was presented that went into detail on the atrocities of slavery and the genocide of Native Americans. It didn't attack America, but it didn't soft-sell these stories as just the doings ofa few misguided southerners and westerners, as is usually done. It laid out the full story.

The textbook board disallowed the book, of course. When the publisher demanded an explanation, saying that the book was 100% accurate, and told the truth more than most text books, the school board did not disagree. But they argued that American history was not about teaching the truth to students. It was about making students feel good about their country.

That's why we perform such pompous ceremonials for people like Ford, and Reagan. It isn't about Ford, or Reagan. It's not about mourning, or honoring, or paying respects. It's about continuing the American Myth. While a president or former president is in office, he is a scurvy, mangy political dog. When he leaves office, he becomes a misunderstood and underestimated statesman, to be treated with respect and honor. Even Nixon went through that rehab.

When a president dies, he becomes a saint in the Great American Myth. America, the myth says, is all about progress. It is all about the inexorible march to perfect freedom and democracy. Slavery is overcome. Segregation is overcome. It's all about moving forward. And the leaders of that forward movement (which ironically is only obvious by looking back) are our presidents. While some were less successful than others, and while some made completely human and therefore forgivable mistakes along the way, they were each great men, worthy of the highest respect, to be wrapped in the flag and memorialized as further proof that our leaders are always right and America can do no real wrong. And if you try to argue with the portrait they pain of a president at his funeral, shame on you. You are speaking ill of the dead at a time when we should all be pulling together, supporting our common culture, and mourning along with the masses.

The reaction to Ford's death wasn't about Ford. It was about the Bushes. It was about Iraq, and Viet Nam, and the Native American genocide, and the slavery which was supported as much by the North as the South. It was about the constant war with Eastasia that became the war with Oceania without ever changing enemies. It's just another slathering of white paint on the walls of America.

Ford really was a nice guy, even if he made mistakes. I don't really dislike him or anything. But we would memorialize Saddam Hussein the same way if we had elected him president. Look what we did for Reagan. You can anticipate the same thing for W. No one presidential failure is as important as the Myth.

[raccoon]

59. I read in a sociology textbook once that one of the purposes

of teaching history was to teach the generally accepted myths of the nation. Of course, they didn't use those words, but that's what was meant.

"But they argued that American history was not about teaching the truth to students. It was about making students feel good about their country."

[jobycom]

81. Pretty much

It's a way to indoctrinate students into the cultural beliefs. The same with "English only" movements. All the stuff we think of as the right government, or the right ideology--stuff like separation of state and church, rights to expression and other self-fulfillment ideals, freedom, democracy, Chevrolets, buy American, build a wall against Mexico, conquer Iraq, boycott Walmart because they buy stuff from China... all of it comes from our training in history at an early age. Most never question it.

I'm not saying all those ideals are wrong, just that they are taught to us through our history courses, not some natural instinct. That's why we have so much trouble understanding or accepting cultures that are taught different myths. Even here at DU, with the brightest and the best of open minds, you can see an almost complete rejection of the values taught in Islamic culture, without an awareness that our values seem just as bizarre and screwed up to them.

When you study history at the graduate level, you start to see not only more of what was really happening, without the filter of mythology, but you also begin to see how the stories are constructed, and what the political/ideological message behind the stories are. It's not so much that the stories we learn in school are false. Just that they are carefully chosen to create one image.

Even what you learn in grad school is a myth, though a different myth. Again, myth doesn't mean false. It just means that the stories have a more complex purpose than just informing someone about the past. It pretty much has to be that way, though. People may not care that Marie Antoinette knitted socks on a particular evening because snow prevented her from touring her gardens, or some such triviality. Even less so if a peasant did the same thing. The facts we cull from the past have to mean something to us in some way, or nobody would bother to remember them.

So the stories we learn in school are chosen to further the American Myth. Not much different from what we hear on television. When people realize this, they don't get as excited about going to war over personality clashes or supposed atrocities or anything else.

Sorry for the rambling, if anyone's still reading! I'm still paying my student loans for all my historical studies, gotta babble what I learned somewhere. :)

[vickitulsa]

91. I very much enjoyed hearing what you had to say.

:)

You provided a lot of great information and really weren't rambling at all. Me, now I ramble on a bit at times, as in my initial post in this thread! ;)


I just wanted to tell you that, and also to say how refreshing it is to finally find someone else who understands that the word "myth" does NOT imply "untruth"!

A simple way to explain it that I use at times is that there is a lot of "mythology" surrounding the story of Christ. Doesn't mean what is said is NOT TRUE -- just that it has taken on the characteristics of myth.

Myths, as you clearly know, are neither true nor false by definition. Just a good thing for people to know if they don't already.

Thanks for all the other info too! :hi:

[raccoon]

162. I second that emotion. nt

[SoCalDem]

88. My American History teacher got a week's suspension

for showing us the films his brother took in Viet Nam. His younger brother got drafted, and our teacher said one day,

"We're going to watch some future history today, kids. Pay close attention, you guys,because some of you ARE going there"
The kids all talked about it ion other classes, and by the end of the day he was suspended for "unauthorized educational materials"..

Of course that did nothing but cement our love for him.

he became a bit of a rebel after that, and had monthly cookouts at his place, where all kids were welcome. his wife cooked and he talked to us all and showed the latest films from his brother.

I never did find out is his brother made it back..

I hope so

[malaise]

108. Beautifully stated

This is all about perpetuating some more myths. As usual it is a complete inversion of reality and it is no different in other countries.

I watch for the real political content which is often side stiching funny.

[jobycom]

161. It's not exactly a "complete inversion of reality," so much as a

channeling of the facts to emphasize one interpretation over the others. A "myth" doesn't have to be false, it's just that the truth or falsity isn't as important as the meaning of the story.

[Jacobin]

18. America's appetite for smarmy, over the top grieving

for practically any reason (or, really, no reason at all) is completely insatiable.

[nolabels]

71. Wouldn't that be corporate media's "smarmy, over the top grieving"..............

for anything that supports principle or position of the right wing agenda. The love for opening old wounds delights some of these people so it comes as no surprise that they are cuing it up to the nauseating point.

For goodness sakes didn't it ever occur to anybody that Ford was still just working for Nixon even after Nixon left?
Wouldn't it be even safe to assume that Nixon would have never resigned unless he knew Ford would Pardon him after he left :shrug:

[Jacobin]

90. They show it because people watch it

And yes, Ford pardoned Nixon because 'he was his friend', according to Woodward's reporting.

He was just a typical moderate republican. No hero. No villain. Just your average republican.

[nolabels]

98. Getting back to another debate, he resigned because he knew he would get pardoned

And so wasn't Ford, the person in question, a Congressional supplicant that was known by other republicans for being unambitious and keeping the faith.
Being a moderate republican sounds kind of synonymous to being a toilet.
They can suck down a lot of crap and still can look kind of clean doing it :hurts:

Remember, Nixon picked Ford not vis-v-versa. He was an integral part of Wisconsin but retired out of state mostly hiding from the public. He is being honored so well for keeping it quiet and holding the fort while others regrouped behind the scenes. The last 28 years of elections seems kind of proof of that to me


btw, Corporate media's control of information is lessening by the day and even hour. The one's still watching are the ones who just haven't quite figured out how much they are being lied to. They will eventually though :-)

[cwydro]

20. Well, since I heard it on Friday

no, I wasn't surprised. Just irked I didn't get the day off also.

[cali]

21. LOL

Why not have looked up info on the funerals of past presidents before making the erroneous claim that this has anything whatsoever to do with Princess Diana.

And let me note the human need for ceremony and ritual that can be observen in any tribe or society throughout the entire history of humankind- hell, even before recorded history began.

[novalib]

26. EVEN JFK DIDN'T TAKE THIS LONG!!!!!

JFK was shot on November 22.

His Funeral was 3 DAYS LATER -- ON NOVEMBER 25!!!!

He was an ELECTED PRESIDENT who DIED IN OFFICE, and we SPENT FAR LESS TIME Mourning HIS death!!!!

[cali]

27. Whatever. Your hysteria

is approaching the psychotic. You need that chill pill.

[novalib]

31. HYSTERIA???!!!

What "hysteria" are YOU talking about????!!!!

I find an instance that undermines YOUR bogus claim that this OVERLONG ORGY OF MOURNING for a SLIMEBALL who was a NOTHING PRESIDENT was the same way we have ALWAYS mourned when a President dies, and YOU CALL ME Hysterical???!!!

And then you ALSO Think that YOU know what I NEED???!!!!

I Don't THINK SO!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. How Do You Square The Two Observations?

novalib (1000+ posts) Wed Jan-03-07 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. HE WAS NOT!!!!!
He had COURAGE!!!!

He spoke the TRUTH when FEW people were willing to do so!!

I CANNOT understand why he would have voted for Ford (but remember, he did so BEFORE Ford pardonned Nixon).

But McGoverne was NEVER a "kind of dumb ass"!!!!!!!!
Alert Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply |


What does that make McGovern, a man you seem to admire, if he voted for a "slimeball"?


Also, Ford pardoned Nixon in 1974... This was long before the 1976 election...


Maybe Ford wasn't a "slimeball".

[libnnc]

46. My diet no longer includes popcorn

But I'll make an exception today and walk an extra 10 minutes on the tread mill.

:popcorn:

I've been anticipating the exposure and meltdown of a certain poster...

[Starbucks Anarchist]

47. You call it a meltdown...

She calls it "Tuesday."

[onenote]

57. ROFL!!

:toast:

[novalib]

95. IT. IS. WEDNESDAY!!!!!!

Don't Start With Me!

[Starbucks Anarchist]

112. Wednesday for us normal people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

48. I Think The Said Poster Pays To Much Attention To The (D) or (R) After A Person's Name....

eom

[cwydro]

67. scooch over

and pass me some...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

94. Me too.

But I'm not sure who we're talking about here, so I'll just grab a handful of that popcorn.

[Pathwalker]

62. With the Secret Service investigating DU,

it makes one wonder.... :freak:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

84. "Maybe Ford wasn't a 'slimeball'"

:rofl:

Maybe I'm the Queen of Scotland.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

158. I Liked And Respected Him So By Transitive Reduction I Am A Slimeball

And a damn proud one.

Kisses

DSB

[ronnykmarshall]

34. Like sunrise and sunset ..

You can always depend on you know who to show up in a Ford thread.

[LibraLiz1973]

116. We're all totally screwn

:rofl:

[Missy M]

29. Not to mention the horrible way he died....

and he still had the most memorable of funerals.

[corkhead]

30. Kennedy didn't pull Nixon and the repuke party's fat out of the fire

that gets 2 extra days.

[cwydro]

66. I seem to be saying this a lot lately,

but, thank you Cali, again.

[novalib]

24. You Are NOT ALONE!!!!

Six FUCKING Days of MOURNING for One of AMERICA's WORST PRESIDENTS!!!

SIX FUCKING DAYS of mourning for someone who was NEVER ELECTED TO THE PRESIDENCY -- OR EVEN THE VICEPRESIDENCY!!!!!

SIX FUCKING DAYS of MOURNING for someonwas who a TOTAL SLIMEBALL -- He PARDONNED NIXON!!!!

And, as I type this -- IT IS STILL NOT OVER!!!!

It continues from Grand Rapids!!!!!

He was a NOBODY PRESIDENT who, if someone "needed" to mourn him, the mourning SHOULD have lasted about 30 FUCKING SECONDS!!!!!

[MichiganVote]

32. Can I ask you a sincere question? Since most of us can read, why do you use caps?

[onenote]

35. Can I make a suggestion

And I'll put it in a form that you apparently prefer:

WHY DON'T YOU JUST FUCKING TURN OFF THE TV AND READ A BOOK IF IT BOTHERS YOU SO FUCKING MUCH?

Geez.

[specimenfred1984]

38. Can I make a suggestion?

And I'll put it in a form that you apparently prefer:

WHY DON'T YOU JUST FUCKING TURN OFF THE COMPUTER AND READ A BOOK IF IT BOTHERS YOU SO FUCKING MUCH?

Geez.

[ronnykmarshall]

40. Um ?

Nawwww! This is too easy.

[dflprincess]

44. What I don't get is

this funeral has been planned for years. John Kennedy was shot on a Friday afternoon, with no funeral plans in place, and he was buried the following Monday. No hauling him up to Boston for a show once it was decided he would be buried at Arlington and his funeral certainly didn't lack for pomp. Maybe if JFK had died a natural death at a ripe old age his services would have been more of a circus, but I'm inclined to think that both he and Jackie had more style and wouldn't have dragged the country through a week of festivities.

[MichiganVote]

79. Actually during the funeral for JFK the same things were done

[novalib]

96. WRONG!!!

The "same things" were MOST CERTAINLY NOT done at JFK's funeral.

JFK's ONE AND ONLY Funeral took place --- and THEN he was BURIED!!

He did not get jettede up to Boston so the good people up there couldview his closed casket (WHAT IS THE BIG FUCKING DEAL ABOUT LOOKING AT A CLOSED CASKET ANYWAY???!!!).

Like I said earlier, JFK died, his body was flown to Washington, he had a funeral and he was buried.

And it only took THREE DAYS to do all that!!!

[MichiganVote]

100. He was buried at Arlington in Virginia, graveside service was held there too

following the DC activities.

I asked you before but you did not respond. Why do you use cap's so much?

[onenote]

101. so was it wrong that they let people in 3 cities remember rosa parks

Montgomery AL, Washington DC, Detroit, MI?

Some of those services were closed casket. What a waste, eh?



:sarcasm:

[novalib]

103. Are YOU EQUATING ???!!!!

Good Gaia, are you equating Rosa Parks with Gerald Ford????!!!

One did immeasuable good with one action.

The other did IMMEASURABLE HARM AND EVIL with one action.

I trust you do know which is which!!!!!

[MichiganVote]

104. Gerald Ford was a congressman, an effective congressman, in

GR for 25 years. People in this locale appreciated his service for that even as many disagreed with some of his choices. So they honor him. So what? You can have your opinions, they can have theirs.

[novalib]

105. I DO HOPE That You Are NOT

I do hope that you are NOT suggesting that we should have a SPECTACULAR ORGY OF MOURNING, Official Days of Mourning, and all of the other MAUDLIN displays we have seen over the past few days whenever a Congressperson dies!

And, Good Gaia, Ford PARDONNED NIXON -- Thus PREVENTING JUSTICE!!!!

Third rate President -- an UNELECTED -- at BEST!!!!!

[MichiganVote]

106. You still haven't answered my question about the cap's??? Why do you do that?

[ronnykmarshall]

119. Don't hold your breath on this one.

You'll never get a (sane) responce.

[MichiganVote]

120. I'm hoping I don't.....get a sane response that is...

[ronnykmarshall]

122. and what he/she gonna do now?

Ford's funeral is over!

[MichiganVote]

123. Yeah no kidding! What bandwagon to follow now...

[libnnc]

148. start another thread.

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

153. Not enough popcorn

"Eunice, you got splitters in the windmills of your mind!"

[novalib]

138. Here's WHY

Why???!!!

I do it because I feel quite PASSIONATELY about certain things!

It's my way of expressing the DEPTH and INTENSITY of my PASSION!!!!

I hope this answers your question.

[onenote]

113. I don't equate them, but that's not the issue

You seemed to be saying that since JFK had only three days of services in one city, it was unreasonable for Ford to have a week of services in three cities, particularly with a closed casket.

My point is not to equate anyone with anyone but rather to point out that just because the JFK service was handled one particular way, it doesn't mean other ways of marking the occasion of a public figure's death are unreasonable. Rosa Parks had a special connection to people in two cities (MOntgomery and Detroit) as well as special connection to the American people (as represented by the service in DC). While I don't "equate" Gerald Ford with Rosa Parks, he too had a special connection to people in California and Michigan and, through his service as a Congressional leader, vice president, and then president (one of only 43 people to hold that position) to the American people (as marked by his service in DC).

[ronnykmarshall]

117. President Jimmy Carter (D) .... would disagree with you.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Video_Carter_delivers_touching_eulogy_for_0103.html

[libnnc]

130. exactly.

[ronnykmarshall]

155. G'on Momma Harper!

[novalib]

133. SO WHAT??!!!

What is Your Point???!!!

Is it that President Carter and I disagree about something??

SO WHAT????!!!

So THE FUCK What???!!!

Do you REALLY expect me to agree with EVERY SINGLE THING that President Carter says??!!

You REALLY do say some awfully SILLY things!!!!

[ronnykmarshall]

154. No, honey ...

You have some dumb ass ways of avoiding questions you can't resond to.

Isn't it time for you to get back under the bridge and let the goats cross?

[ronnykmarshall]

89. Hey, Carter's speaking at Ford's funeral right now.

So???????? When are you going to start bashing Carter?

[specimenfred1984]

36. I hereby declare today "National Day After Yesterday Day"!

In observance of all the crap I took yesterday from the holier-than-me grave panderers who told me it wasn't OK to tell the truth about high crimes in America.

I further hereby declare that from now on, it's OK to mention the high crimes of dead presidents, even on the day they are buried on propagandized national TV with a Nazi-like chimp lying his ass off while covering up literally 1000s of crimes.

[rosesaylavee]

37. I see it more as a nation honoring the office rather than the man.

Did laugh when I tried to get to the post office before it closed yesterday. Jerry, as someone said up thread, meant well but failed miserably on several points. But, that's the best thing I can say about any Republican president since Eisenhower!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. The Romans made the emperors Gods. Erected statues to them.

Bowing and scraping to the bosses is as old as history.

[tomp]

41. it's the pardon thing.

ford's big contribution to history was his pardoning of richard nixon. if they spin it long and hard enough as a "healing" it sets the stage for future pardons. that's why i oppose the lionization of ford and the revision of history. he should have been arrested for aiding and abetting a felon. we should outlaw pardons except for extreme cases--like leonard peltier, who was clearly railroaded.

[NNN0LHI]

50. I think you may be on to something n/t

[vickitulsa]

87. I agree it was all about the pardon of Nixon, paving the way

for what will surely come eventually -- a pardon of GWB.

The more the bigwig pols lauded ole Gerry for pardoning Nixon and "healing the nation," the more that entire notion about a Presidential pardon will stick in people's heads when GWB's crimes finally bring impeachment hearings and a trial down upon him and his whole corrupt administration.

And it will probably work.

I don't think anyone in America hated Nixon more than I did back then; yet in a sense even I reluctantly admitted that I was glad not to have to see his ugly mug or hear his odious voice on teevee anymore after the pardon. To have had to endure the long-drawn-out affair an impeachment trial and possible criminal proceedings of that -- CRIMINAL -- would have been an awful lot to stomach.

Still, I thought it should have happened -- OR that at the very least Ford should have demanded from Nixon an admission of his crimes in order to receive that "full and free" pardon. Made me furious when, as an ex-president, Nixon ended up being rehabilitated in the media over a few short years into an "elder statesman" who received a virtual state funeral with ALL the other preceding presidents in attendance!

What bugs me about some comments on DU about Ford is that so many say "he meant well" or "he was a good guy." I find such claims absolutely absurd, though I say that reluctantly as I don't like criticizing fellow DUers. :)

How can we know that Ford ever in fact "meant well"? Or that he was a "good guy"? I think he wronged the nation in a big way by pardoning Nixon without getting that admission of wrongdoing from him first! It surely did not help all those harmed by Nixon to "heal" when the old crook was shoved down our throats on teevee and shown great respect for years after he left office....

For me, I was sickened more by the absolutely unreal spectacle when Reagan died than any other. At least those who made a huge scene over Princess Di actually did admire and adore her -- she had many fans and admirers around the world, and some would say with good cause. (I know, some would say not, but that doesn't disprove my premise.:))

When mourners voluntarily weep buckets of tears and stand in line for hours in the rain to put flowers on a grave or see a funeral procession, that's at least REAL, and I have no problem with that.

What bugs me is that the ridiculous amount of time all this ceremony for Ford took on the teevee news and even other stations was just an "overdoing" of it beyond excusing, considering probably more than half the nation is too young to remember him and he was never elected and served such a short time as president.

Mind you, I didn't watch ANY OF IT. Not one bit, not even one full minute -- I avoided it that hard, in part because I figured who would be speaking but mostly because I AM NOT INTERESTED. Nor is most of America, I suspect; and I just wish we could see the RATINGS of all the stations who ran hours and hours of this pompous nonsense!

Likewise, as someone indicated above, is it true that there never were great crowds gathered anywhere in all those televised hours of ceremony? "Dozens," indeed! That's probably about all who were even slightly interested!

Just a ridiculous waste of whoever's money (probably ours) paid for all that pomp and splendorous fanfare.....

[dogday]

45. Seriously, how many of these Memorials

are they throwing? For days it seems people have gathered, here, there, and everywhere... Give it a rest, literally!!!

[hedgehog]

49. I didn't pay much attention, but I think I heard one commentator

refer to the "dozens" of people standing outside the National Cathedral yesterday. What I did see was a bunch of old white guys remembering their glory days. Everyone else pretty much ignored the event.

[onenote]

64. I work on Pennsylvania Avenue

and the procession went directly past my building. There were people lined up along the sidewalk several deep and people watching from the windows inside the building.

THe reason that there weren't that many people at the Catherdral was that it wasn't open to the public and there were road closures making it very difficult to get near the site.

While Ford's body was laying in state in the Rotunda, it was estimated that 2000 people an hour filed by for around 9 hours. The numbers paying respects in California and Michigan also numbered in the thousands.

So to suggest that "everyone else" other than a bunch of "old white guys" at the Cathedral ignored Ford's funeral is pretty much fiction.

[hedgehog]

68. Thanks for the correction.

Television often gives the wrong impression.

[onenote]

72. no problem

[MichiganVote]

75. About 60,000 visited in GR between 5pm and 11am today

[electron_blue]

51. This pomp & ritual is for the office of President, not for Ford. Reagan had a month

of flags at half mast, plus a day or mourning.

[treestar]

61. It's an office, not a kingship

this particular office does not need and in fact should not have this kind of propping.

It is carrying out the executive powers as described in the Constitution, nothing more.

There is no royalty here. People who like Pomp need to move to Great Britain, I guess. The President's memorials should more closely parallel those granted to prime ministers, not monarchs.

[onenote]

65. So should we tear down the Washington Monument, Lincoln Memorial

Jefferson Memorial, and take JFK's name off of the Kennedy Center?

Should we rename Washington DC? What should we call Lincoln Nebraska?

[treestar]

82. No, I don't have a problem naming buildlings after them

Buildings are common and can be named after Governors or Senators or just about anybody. What does naming buildings have to do with it? I'm sure there's a Gerald R. Ford building somewhere in Michigan.

[electron_blue]

118. I agree with you. Just trying to clarify why it's being done right now.

Bush knows that if he helps prop up former presidents during their funerals, it acts to further elevate his role.

I betcha most people don't know there are 3 equal branches of govt. I bet most of them think the President is in charge of everything.

[LibDemAlways]

52. When Kennedy was assinated on a Friday, there

was a weekend of mourning while his body lay in state in the Capitol rotunda. Then on Monday there was a state funeral and burial. Monday was a national day of mourning and schools and government offices were closed. I was in 6th grade and I remember the teacher on Tuesday morning commenting that was a terrible reason to have had an unscheduled day off. Tuesday, a mere four days after the tragedy in Dallas, America was back at school and work.

I don't begrudge Ford a state funeral, but it seems to me he had several services and he isn't being buried until today, a full 8 days after he died. Enough already.

[dogday]

73. Exactly, just like Reagan except his was more

than this... I mean how many services is too much?

[noonwitch]

53. I'm from Grand Rapids, so he was more than just an unelected President to us

He was a long-serving congressman representing our community and a very nice and decent guy. His family are good people and his wife has done a great deal to help many people over the years, both those with addictions and those with breast cancer.

Yes, he was 93 and it was not unexpected that he would die soon, but he was loved by lots of people and he was president at a rough time in our nation's history. Mostly, he was probably one of the last leaders to make a decision (pardoning Nixon) based on what was best for the country, knowing that he would likely pay a price politically for doing so.

[MichiganVote]

58. Its true. To many in the nation he was a "pardon", to the GR area residents

he provided 25 years of decent representation. Almost anyone 50 or over who has lived in the GR area had positive memories of the Fords and their children.

[MichiganVote]

111. noonwitch which part of GR did you grow up in? I was from there too.

[noonwitch]

163. Kentwood

I graduated from EKHS in 1982, from WMU in 1986 and moved to the Detroit area in 1987, where I've lived ever since. I lived for a very short time, from August of 86 to May of 87, on Wealthy in Eastown, just down the street from Yesterdog.

I worked at the IHOP that used to be in the parking lot at Woodland Mall in 1981, at Steketee's Eastbrook store from 1981-83 (on and off in college) and at K-Mart on 28th Street on and off (and the one in Kalamazoo) until I moved to Detroit.

[kittykitty]

54. Agree! Lou Dobbs, too, last night made a statement saying this funeral

was way too much. Not that he meant to dishonor Gerald Ford, but that these things were out of proportion. Also presidential libraries were these extravagant memorials that will out last the memories of these presidents, much like the pyramids.

And I think, how long can CSpan show people shuffling around the casket? Hours and hours. . . . .

[MichiganVote]

69. The libraries employ people and bring revenue to areas

[cwydro]

74. Yeah, and then Lou Dobbs

announced the birth of his grandbaby, complete with picture - on national TV.:eyes:

[treestar]

55. It did seem over the top, I'll agree

I don't think we need national days of mourning for deceased former presidents. Especially with the 24/7 TV coverage.

Since 911 we have become, as a nation, one big drama queen.

[onenote]

60. national days of mourning predate 9/11 by, oh, more than 100 years

National days of mourning date back at least to the death of Abraham Lincoln. Not only is it accepted practice to declare a national day of mourning when a president (current or past) dies, national days of mourning have been declared in other instances. For example, President Clinton declared one after the Oklahoma City bombings.

Also, I'm not following the supposed connection between not needing national days of mourning and 24/7 tv coverage? Can you explain?

[treestar]

80. In the old days, the TV had only a few channels and went off at night

And there were no VCRs, etc., so now, you can get home from work and still not miss the Ford funeral if you really wanted to see it.

In the old days, you'd miss it if it were held during the day and you had to work all day.

Nowadays I bet most people didn't even pay attention to Ford, just took advantage of their unexpected extra day off. Like they do for Labor Day and July 4, but at least those are positive events. I'm against national days based on negativity, like those who want to make 911 a holiday.

Presidents are just elected officials who carry out the powers of the executive in the Constitution, they are not royalty. Naturally there is a tendency to lionize them because the focus is on the single man, rather than Congress, which has 538 people, but it is equal. We do enough of royalizing of a president naturally and have always needed to resist it rather than inflame it.

[onenote]

97. you are wrong about the old days

going back decades, presidential funerals have been treated as historic occasions, with considerable pomp and circumstance. In the mid-19th and first part of the 20th Century, presidential caskets were typically transported from one location to another by train, with tens of thousands of citizens taking the time to line the tracks to observe the train going by. When Lincoln died, his body was transported from by train from DC to Springfield IL over a nearly two week period, with stops in various cities. Hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens lined the route, paid their respects during various stops, and/or marched in processions leading up to the funeral. It was as big a deal as you can possibly imagine.

While Lincoln's funeral may have been an extreme example, it reflects the fact that presidential deaths and funeral have always been treated as signficant events of public interest. To give you an idea of how presidents get "lionized" -- just go to ebay and search "president and funeral" -- you'll find memorabilia for any number of presidential funerals from the 19th century to the present.

[nini]

56. What if they didn't do these things?

Other presidents have had this mourning period - he was a president whether elected or not.

He is getting the treatment all presidents do.

[hedgehog]

70. Just think of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth to come when

Bill Clinton gets his funeral!

[cwydro]

76. Should be interesting eh?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. Hopefully That Will Be A Very Long Time From Now

eom

[ronnykmarshall]

156. Amen.

I hope that I'll be much older than I am now when President Clinton passes on. (both of them ..... tee-hee) :evilgrin:

[nini]

83. No kidding

It's really pathetic the country is so divided now we can't even endure the funerals of the other party's presidents.

[hogwyld]

92. Well, my sincere wish for this country

Is that after the criminal GWB is planted, we won't ever have to endure another R's presidential funeral.

[AnneD]

93. The big difference.....

it will be sincere.

JFK-a shock.Several days of going through motion. I remember most adults looking like Jackie. Folks that didn't like him still felt bad esp for his wife and kids. Horrible way to go.

Truman-lots of stories (many humerous)about his spunky nature. The bomb decision dominated.

Johnson-lots of anti war vitreol and anti Texas venom. Forget that the guy was one of our most liberal and progressive Presidents....it was about the war.

Nixon-very quite and shall I say, secretive.

Reagan-over the top, protracted, and most imperial. Many that disagreed just shut their mouths to be polite. But after the GOP made so much over Wellstone.....

Coretta King, Rosa Parks- respectful and got the point across.

Ann Richard, Paul Wellstone-what happens when a truly beloved people's politician is buried-lot's of funny stories, real tears, and genuine respect. You leave feeling better.

Clinton- funeral will be majestic and genuine. It will be real, something the GOP hasn't felt since Lincoln.

Dubya-Imperial and fake. They will have to pay morners and you'll feel insincere the whole time.

I can go on but you can feel sincerity, you can fake respect.

[Nikki Stone1]

85. Come on, don't blame Diana

Queen Elizabeth started it all with her televised coronation.

[onenote]

115. actually, it started with Abe Lincoln

His funeral procession lasted two weeks and covered multiple cities on a train trip from DC to Springfield IL that was occasioned by hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens viewing his casket as it lay in state in various towns or just gathering to watch the train roll past.

I believe the train carrying FDR's body also drew large crowds.

Many people have a strong desire to "be part of history" and the final journey of a president, rightly or wrongly, is part of history. (Don't believe me -- just spend some time on google -- you can find out about the funerals of virtually every president). Indeed, although I was vehemently opposed to the VIetnam War (and marched against LBJ), I still drove up from college to attend LBJ's funeral in 1973. I'm older now and feel that need less, but I still took the time to watch Ford's hearse travel past my office on PEnnsylvania Avenue during its trip from the Capitol to the Cathedral.

[faithnotgreed]

99. such a well written post. i didnt even think about if i agree or not

i just truly enjoyed this post. and laughed more than once - esp the last sentence (and i say this as someone who very much believes in God)

[NNN0LHI]

102. I didn't agree with too much of what the author wrote either

Especially the Diana stuff. But like yourself. I sure enjoyed reading it. I was laughing really hard as I read it.

And I would sign up for 93 right now too.

Don

[NNN0LHI]

107. Would anyone here not sign up for 93 right now if you could? I would n/t

[LWolf]

109. Is that why there was no mail?

I didn't even know. :shrug:

A national day of mourning seems a little over the top to me, but it didn't really put me out any. My life went on as usual.

[mwb970]

110. My God, it's *still* not over.

I turned on my TV just now to watch Hardball and my jaw dropped as I saw that damn casket again, in yet another funeral ceremony. Jesus! When will it end?

[GreenTea]

114. Ford a true republican pig!

[MichiganVote]

121. Be sure to forward your point of view to Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton

[ronnykmarshall]

124. No kidding.

It's funny that none of the hard core Ford bashers that have crawled out this week can respond to that.

Especially after Carter's wonderful tribute to his friend Jerry Ford.

Our little friend that likes to use CAPS has avoided that question all day.

[NNN0LHI]

126. Strange thing I noticed about Dems over the years is that they tend...

...not to walk in lockstep like the Nazis in the other party who call themselves Republicans.

We are more diverse. It has probably hurt us at times but in the long run it has been a healthy thing.

I have in the past been in complete disagreement with both Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and it doesn't bother me to admit it. Actually I am kind of proud of it.

Dissent is good.

Don

[MichiganVote]

127. Heapin' lot of philosophy just to justify the use of the word pig NNNOLHI

edit / spell

[FrenchieCat]

125. I am soooo

fucking bored, I'm having to listen to The Black Eyed Peas Greatest hits and dance my way through this insane shit. :boring:

Let me know when it's over, and the Democrats have taken over....K?

(Edited to correct sp errors made cause I'm so doggone sleepy due to being forced to watch nothing but funerals for the last few days!)

[MichiganVote]

128. Not that I have to know, but is your name Paris Hilton by any chance?

[GreenTea]

129. Ford a complete fucking bumbling clown!!!!

As the TV media you watch night & day trying to convince us that a fucking republican, a do nothing, pardoning Nixon robot fucking republican mind you... was wonderful...the prick did NOTHING to help Americans but did as he was told like a good robot and pardon Nixon, kept us from sending the killer bastard to jail...Ford wore leisure suits and fell down the bumbling asshole, who helped along and created incredible inflation in this country and the ridiculous way he tried to stop it, was with some stupid button that read "WIN" - WHIP INFLATION NOW...WHAT A FUCKING IDIOT ROBOT HE WAS... a fucking piece of shit republican...

Ford, a fucking republican, completely embraced republican ideology....and we know republican ideology is fucked. It's government helping with subsidies, (corporate welfare) tax breaks and deregulation for corporate interest over helping the people, the workers and the environment...I can proudly say I NEVER voted for any republican ever...I voted for Democratic Carter, who created not a single war, had an excellent alternative energy program and cared about the poor and the middle class workers.

It's disgusting when people vote the personality they see on TV & newspapers and not the man's ideology...because that ideology is indeed the man. It's what the man has base his entire life on, and when push comes to shove, one always votes their party's ideology. Ford was a fucking republican and republican ideology is a selfish, elitist, greedy and fucked ideology...And Ford was a bumbling, do nothing, republican pig...Oatmeal Man!!!

Just more republican media spin, telling everyone bullshit about Ford...so people will believe there are good republicans to vote for The same media that constantly trashes democrats FDR, Kennedy, Carter and Clinton.the media you watch night and day...Ford always backed Nixon, Reagan, Bush, even Jr. (and said nothing when he knew Iraq was a major fuck up, because he was a loyal republican) as well as the sick republican agenda when in retirement, just as when he was in Congress and president....Ford was a fucking republican, and promoted republican ideology through and through his whole career...

[MichiganVote]

131. Still having a problem I see. That's too bad. The rest of us seem to have moved on.

Oh well, take all the time you need. Sometimes we all want to go a little faster than the other guy but you just need to be who you are, all by yourself.

I think we got the part about him being a republican tho'.

[GreenTea]

134. Only with your silly repetition of protecting the asshole Ford...Look how many

ridiculous post you have made in just this thread....Wake up Skippy...Ford was just the way you like your republicans - Do-nothing, bumbling, brainless robots in leisure suits..From where your hometown? Shit, you do make me laugh though Skippy!!! :rofl: Keep it up Skip...I love your silliness...

[MichiganVote]

139. I'm flattered you read all my posts tea, pat yourself on the back

It must have really taxed your comprehension abilities.

[GreenTea]

140. So how long have you loved the republican Ford? You voted for him...

And exactly what did he do for you Skippy?

[MichiganVote]

141. Didn't vote for Ford. Didn't vote for Jimmy Carter either. Or Nixon.

Not to mention Washington, Jefferson or Roosevelt. Harding, Truman, Clinton, or the two Bushes in the corner. Johnson, Eisenhower, Kennedy, or Jimmy Hoffa.

[GreenTea]

144. So AGAIN, What exactly did Ford do for you...

and this country?

[MichiganVote]

146. The same thing he did for you. But then, we have different opinions on

just what the meaning of that "to do" list has meant. So there you go.

[GreenTea]

149. Again, So why do you love the republican Ford?

[NNN0LHI]

132. Expect to be attacked personally for telling the truth about a Republican

Been a lot of that going on lately.

Kind of strange to see on Democratic Underground.

Guess we are going to have to get used to seeing more of it or something?

Don

[MichiganVote]

135. Well you know I wasn't exactly crazy about Ford but all this disruptive stuff

looks pretty suspicious to me. I imagine we will see more of it. Too bad, there are certainly more challenging ways in which to prove oneself an idiot than posting a bunch of argumentative junk on a message board. Guess they are doing the best they can.....

[GreenTea]

142. Come on you've been ass kissing Ford....

and making personal attacks..Not hard to look up & down this thread...that's why I jumped in...because bullies who protect republicans in this DEMOCRATIC forum need to be outed with the truth about republican clowns like Ford, that you adore so.... are there any other republicans you love we should know about or just Ford?

[MichiganVote]

145. Well Jif, I like the women in Maine but that's about it. Happy you asked

[GreenTea]

151. You agree with republican ideology?

[GreenTea]

136. Thanks, I know this...with these republican lovers like Skippy...I can keep going and kicking

Republican ass all night & day...I been here at DU since 2001...I love stomping on these republican clowns, ignorant, unaware and stupid as they come!!! And Skippy here is one of the dumbest.

[MichiganVote]

143. Actually I think your profile says June of 2006 but what do I know

:eyes:

[GreenTea]

147. I've been here under

many incarnations....send me an email and I'll send you the usernames Skip! I've been here supporting DU since Feb 2001 when I stumbled upon "Top Ten Conservative Idiots" doing a Google search in 2001...Though they have left out one conservative idiot I can think of!!!

[MichiganVote]

150. You're entirely too positive for me. Bye now. I have big people's work to do.

[GreenTea]

152. Good bye to all republican losers!

[Geek_Girl]

137. What I found most interesting

was Woodward's article on how Ford and Nixon were close friends which lead to the pardoning of Nixon. Healing the country my ass.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/28/AR2006122801247.html

[Buzz Clik]

157. And this marks the end. What will you bitch about now?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

159. There's Something Very Interesting In This And Other Ford Threads.

I know the problem of sock puppets or posters with multiple handles are a major problem on the net but I have noticed a remarkable simalarity in posts on this topic right down to the sytax which is , more or less, unique to all of us...

[Orsino]

165. Typical for the passing of a president.

For my fellow conspiracy nuts, however: the national day of mourning, on which the malls were of course open, meant one extra day in the holiday shopping season to cover for the failing economy. :tinfoilhat: