Some new CA laws (like, your kid must see the dentist before 1st grade)

[The Straight Story]

NOW OPEN WIDE! Every kid has to see the dentist before they finish kindergarten -- or first grade if they skipped kindergarten. There are some exceptions for, like, financial hardship, but it's another reason to eat your veggies.

FREE BEER! The Budweisers of the world can now legally offer what the law describes as free "tastes" of beer to tantalize your tongue at your local bar. But get this: The "taste" cannot be in a glass that holds more than 8 ounces. Whee!

FIZZLING CIGGIES! Cigarettes sold in California now have to be fire-safe. That means they're supposed to go out if they're left alone for a little while. It doesn't mean they're any better for you otherwise.


More here:

http://www.bakersfield.com/619/story/92128.html

[MindPilot]

1. And the silliest of the silly...

You can no longer smoke in a parking structure. :eyes:

[The Straight Story]

3. Whew, thank the lord! Now all you can do there is

suck in all the exhaust. I feel safer already.

[Rosemary2205]

4. The way some cars leak oil I can kinda see that one.

My bet is some idiot flicked his butt, started a fire and ruined it for everyone else.

[MindPilot]

11. Now THAT would make sense, but it's not the reason.

"parking structures" are including in the other "public spaces" where smoking is prohibited.

[A HERETIC I AM]

129. The day a smoking cigarette butt starts a fire in a puddle of oil...

is the day the laws of physics and combustibility are suspended. Try it sometime. Just pour a little oil on a concrete floor and place a lit cigarette butt in it. It will go out.

Sorry...the stickler side of me made me post that.

[bpeale]

6. that's because...

they don't want anything but car exhaust killing you.

[novalib]

14. NOT "SILLY" AT ALL!!!!!

THAT IS NOT A SILLY LAW!!!!!

Parking structures are, INDEED, PUBLIC PLACES where PEOPLE -- MANY OF THEM ALLERGIC to TOXIC SMOKE exhaled by CANCER-STICK-SUCKERS -- happen to be!!!

It is a VERY GOOD LAW!!

And I wish MORE PLACES would enact similar laws!!!

[MindPilot]

29. What? Car exhaust is refreshing as a mountain breeze?

Are you trying to tell me that exhaust is relatively harmless when compared to cigarette smoke?

Incidentally side-stream smoke is technically not an allergen, but an irritant--like dust. Unlike the exhaust from an internal combustion engine which can kill a human fairly quickly.

[novalib]

96. WTF???!!!

You: "re you trying to tell me that exhaust is relatively harmless when compared to cigarette smoke?"

Where in the HELL did you get THAT idea???!!!!

I SAID NO SUCH THING!!!!!

I NEVER said that exhaust is relatively harmless.

BUT --

if you are going to have PUBLIC STRUCTURES -- even parking lots -- then it is NOT SILLY to BAN SMOKING IN THEM!!!!!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

109. Calm the fuck down.

Your tone is insultingly condescending and incredibly annoying.

[Beelzebud]

42. When do we ban cars from them?

This is a fine example of what some call the "nanny state" mindset.

No rationality or common sense applied.

They call for the banning of smoking in a parking garage, without a shred of irony that parking garages are full of Carbon Monoxide emitting cars.

[novalib]

98. BAN THEM!!!!!! BAN THEM ALL!!!

As far as I am concerned, it would NOT BOTHER ME IN THE LEAST if the government were to COMPLETELY BAN CARS AND SUVs IN ALL PARKING LOTS!!!!!!!

But, one step at a time!!!!!

IF we INSIST on HAVING PUBLIC structures -- like parking lots -- where people are -- then it just MAKES GOOD SENSE to BAN ANY FURTHER SOURCE OF TOXIC GASSES!!!!!

[Beelzebud]

128. UNCLEAN!!!! DARK SIDED!!!!!!!1111

[Odin2005]

121. This is Novalib you are talking to, she is one of the most vocal nanny-statists here.

[mongo]

43. Parking garages have large openings

to vent the car exhaust -- they are not sealed structures.

Enacting a law banning smoking in a place where you are exposed to more car exhaust than you would ever be exposed to smoke just proves that these laws are NOT about health and safety, they are about punishing people who smoke.

And of course placating hypocondriacts who think they will drop dead if they see a lit cigarette.

[novalib]

100. I'm NOT A HYPOCONDRIAC!!!!!!

I'm NO HYPOCONDRIAC, but I HATE it when I see a LIT CIGARETTE --- or some tobacco-infused phlegm -- in a PUBLIC SPACE!!!

Did you know that CHILDREN are in PUBLIC parking lots???!!!!

Do you not CARE that children are being exposed to toxious, poisonous, SMOKE in public parking lots????!!!!

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. So I take it you have given up your car

because of the dangerous exhaust fumes.

[novalib]

101. YES!!!! YES I HAVE!!!!!

By the way, do you know why they don't send donkeys to college????!!!!!

[Occulus]

94. Fine. I'll just spit my chaw at your feet instead.

:evilgrin:

[novalib]

102. NO PHLEGM FOR ME!!!!

EWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!

NO tobacco-infused phlegm for ME, thanks just the same!!!!!

I HATE SEEING THAT NASTY STUFF!!!!!!

[Odin2005]

120. There Novalib goes agian.

:eyes:

[novalib]

126. "AGIAN"???!!!

I think we are all "agian"

I KNOW that I am OLDER today than I was yesterday.

As time goes by, I guess we are all "agian".

[Warren DeMontague]

97. Texas puts people in jail for having vibrators.

I think I'll stick with California, thanks.

[jwirr]

2. I went to school in Iowa in the 1940s and we already had to see

the dentist before attending school. This is not new and is meant to save money on dental costs down the road.

[bpeale]

8. dental visits

when i went to grade school, they had a dentist come in once per year to examine the teeth of every grade school child. a report was then sent home to the parent. seems like this would be a more cost effective way to handle it. if the kid has no cavities, then no reason to see a dentist. but you found that out from the school.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. Who pays for these dental visits?

My school is one of the few in the US that has a dental clinic. It is incredibly expensive. We used to have dental students come in and do quick check ups on our kids but that got complicated so we finally got grants to build the clinic. Staffing it every year is another big hassle.

Another of the reasons we built the clinic was that we couldn't always get dental students and dentists were not always willing to donate their time to come to our school and examine the kids. And then, if we had kids that needed more dental care, finding a dentist who took medicaid was even more complicated. (Most of our kids are on Medicaid.)

Health care is so much more expensive now than when we were kids. It is a darn shame.

[jwirr]

20. As I remember it my parents paid for the dental visits but today

that would be a very large burden as costs are so much higher.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. A low income family surviving on minimum wage

can't even begin to afford dental care.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. I cannot even imagine the nightmare that would cause for the school

Legally, there are a lot of logistics involved.

[Critters2]

118. In Davenport, in the 60's, teachers would put your "dentist card" up on the bulletin board

Apart from being a violation of the law, we all knew who hadn't been to the dentist yet. And it was most uncool.

[donco6]

5. We have dentists who come to our schools.

For all the preschool and KG kids - they have a basic oral exam and instructions on toothcare. Whether it should be a law, I dunno, but it's good for the kids. I've never heard a complaint.

Personal confession - I never went to a dentist until I was 22 years old. I got my first toothbrush when I was about 8 or 9. We were "poor white trash" who didn't know anything about dentists or doctors (unless you were really sick). That's just the way it was for us.

I'm 47 and I'm suffering for it now.

[seabeyond]

7. then again, i went once in my childhood. brushed regularly

my parents taught me how to take care of my teeth and they were strong and good and didnt need the dentist. none of us kids had cavaties. my first was when i was preg at 33. we had pearly white.

i dont believe in these types of laws.

[Shakespeare]

9. Spend some time in a Head Start classroom, and you might change your mind.

Dental issues for these children are HUGE. Most are not taught basic dental hygeine by their parents (I'd say you were a very lucky exception to the rule), and there's a horrifically bad problem with what they call "juice mouth"--rampant tooth decay in preschool children resulting from drinking juice from a bottle. This law is a very good thing.

[alarimer]

13. But how do they afford it?

Most people do not go to the dentist because they cannot afford it. Health insurance (if you are lucky enough to have it) does not necessarily cover dental. My dental insurance is in fact a dental discount program and not actual insurance. It works for me since I have good teeth and very few dental problems. Unless the state picks up the tab I don't see how they will get 100% compliance with this law.

[Shakespeare]

15. There are state programs that pay for it.

And that's one of the many valuable services that head start provides--not just teaching the children in the classroom, but helping hook the families up with the social services they so desperately need.

[alarimer]

17. that's good to know

I think Head Start has to be one of the most valuable social programs out there. Of course conservatives hate it because it actually works.

[seabeyond]

25. for those that will qualify. the poorest.

bt we arent just talking about those people.

[demobabe]

81. In Hawaii all kids under 21 are covered under state programs

They either have free or low cost health and dental insurance depending on the family income level.

[seabeyond]

24. i hunted for dental insurance. i hate mine. i asked and the dentist

adm laughed, literally laughed at me about finding a good insurance that would cover my family that i was willing to pay for. i can afford to pay for insurance and still cannot find a good one.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Beat me to it

Some kids today have horrific dental problems by the time they start kindergarten and many have never been to a dentist. Some have to go in for outpatient surgery - they have so many cavities and it would take years to fix them all.

Preventive care is the key and I also support this law. But I wish affordable dental care would be available to all - along with health care.

[seabeyond]

21. we can always decide who is not allowed to be a parent because

they are incapable. i did not take either of my kids to a dentist until one was 6 to have a tooth pulled cause another was coming down and i was concerned. and then not until 11. my youngest not until 9. both teeth were fine. even the one i was concerned. because i pay attention to their teeth. i am on them at least twice a day for all their lives. even as babies i took a toothbrush inside their mouth with one or two teeth, everytime i brushed for the experience of brushing. that is my job.

not govt to tell me i need to send them in before school begins with all their baby teeth if i can clearly see all is fine.

so because parents do not do their job a law is past that all parents must be subject to govt telling us what to do

i am sorry for all children that are born to parents that do not take their job seriously. parents that are not educated in parenting. childen that do not have parents that are connected to them. children that do not have parents that consider their health, mental and ohysical and spiritually.

growing up i was not the unusual child not going to a dentist until i was older. i would not be the unusual child not going to a today prior to age 5 and not having any problems.

[Shakespeare]

23. Fortunately, the California legislature doesn't feel the way you do.

I've seen how extensive the dental problems are for these children--it goes way, way beyond just a few cavities. This is a good law.

Oh, and nobody is telling anybody they're not "allowed to be a parent." :eyes:

[seabeyond]

27. no, they are telling them how they are suppose to be a parent and they

have no recourse. regardless of whether that parent does know better, and a dentist isnt needed, .... they are dismissed and must do as the state says, because of the parents that do not do their job

[Shakespeare]

28. And?

I have no problem with that. You do, that's your opinion.

[seabeyond]

31. people who relinguish their role of parent has no issue with govt

school and other org parenting their children instead of doing it themselves. those of us who take parenting seriously and refuse to relinguish our role and responsibility as parent to govt and schools are forever challenging these positions. hence, .... why many of us have issue with nanny state we are told doesnt exist and is simply a rw talking point.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. There are already laws in place

They are called child abuse and neglect laws. And if a child needed dental care and a parent did not arrange for it, that parent would be guilty of medical neglect. Sadly, not all parents watch their kids for signs of dental problems or teach them to brush regularly.

I am glad your kids have good teeth. But sadly, that is almost rare these days. I can tell you horror stories about kids who come to kindergarten with brown rotten teeth and their parents cannot afford to take them to the dentist. The decay often affects the permanent teeth that have not even come in yet. If that baby tooth is brown, there is a good chance the permanent tooth is rotten too.

Fluoride treatments are also important and prevent dental problems later in life. Just because your kids have good teeth as kids doesn't mean they won't have problems later in life. My kids have good teeth too but I attribute that to regular fluoride treatments when they were younger.

[seabeyond]

35. yes. there are already laws. so lets go beyond the laws we already have

and insist that all must live the life of the irresponsible. there are all to address these children that are not being taken care of

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. But isn't it better to get that kid to a dentist BEFORE

his/her teeth are so bad that the parent is turned in for medical neglect?

[seabeyond]

44. ergo.... pass a law that all children must go to dentist before age 5

isnt it better to have parents that will take responsibility to do their job? i am sorry for these children that are not being taken care of. if a parent cannot insure their kids teeth are healthy they are equally failing in other areas, i am confident. that has nothing to do with my parenting and to pass laws that effect all parents because of those that dont do their job is wrong too. you are in the school system. you know how many parents dont do their job in all areas. demanding the teachers take over the parenting role. you know how it has effected schooling. how you are losing time educating because you are having to pick up the slack. i insist with my teachers and schools i am the parent, not they. and all have appreciated it. but..... it is not something they can take for granted. it is something i as a parent insist on.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. We have had this conversation before

And like I always say, not all parents do their job well. And I side with taking care of kids. As a parent it doesn't bother me to know that my govt is keeping an eye on my kids. I didn't consider it the least bit intrusive. But then, I was conscientious and took good care of my kids. So I didn't have to worry about a nanny state telling me what to do.

[seabeyond]

49. they told me to give kids a chicken pox shot, because they know better

and two hyp c shots and thru research i know neither of these were necessary. but i had to do it because govt wants me to do it. i prefer my children to have gotten chicken pox. be done and over with it. but they didnt get it soon enough for the law. you may not have issue with all the immunizations we give our little ones in one shot but i do. one son got four at age four, and nurse wanted to give him a fifth and told her no way. would do it at another time. you may agree with all that. i dont.

but your answer to me sounds very much like those that relinguish all rights in an airport, lower their eyes, not make a fuss, and follow orders and say, .... i do not mind, keeps us all safe, and if you are not doing anything wrong doesnt matter

and

it sounds to me like the people that say

let bush listen to my phone calls and open my mail. i follow the law and i dont do anythig wrong so it is ok ecause it will keep us safe.

i see no difference

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. This is about KIDS

and making sure they are well cared for. I don't think making a comparison to my being forced to relinquish my rights as a citizen and an adult is a valid comparison.

I hear you on the immunizations. But I remember polio and it is horrific and can kill. Chicken pox - I am not so sure about. Are there serious health problems that follow it? I honestly don't know.

[seabeyond]

58. in texas one year there was a strep going with the chicken pox

killed 6 kids. so our state govt over reacted and all kids had to get chicken pox shot. hasnt happened since, and was no need. it was the strep killing kids, and strep has always been deemed serious. hyp c was a small outbreak in an area for a small time, that happens all the time nation wide, ergo all kids had to be vacc. two new shots at the same time per law, along with all the other shots. what logically made no sense on bothe these shots, ... my nephew that was a year older was not required to get either

but govt told us from need jerk reaction. that is NOT good parenting. that is why i do not trust govt over myself in parenting. i would not parent in that manner. in my view govt failed as parents and cause it was law i had to do something i thought was poor parenting

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. Hepatitis is scary

I have had a couple friends die from it and I have a nurse friend who works with hep patients. It does cause lifelong health problems when it doesn't kill you.

As for strep, I wish there was a shot for that. My hubby almost lost his leg last summer after he cut it open and got a strep infection.

[seabeyond]

65. the odds of my children getting hyp s so far beyond reasonable. it wasnt needed

it was a law passed that i had no say over. it was invasive to childrens bodies i had no control over. i didnt want to give to my kids. i had to. my nephew did not. that tells me it isnt that scary.

yes, i know about hyp c and it is mainly contradicted thru certain adult lifestyle behaviors.

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. My nurse friend can tell you all about many of her patients

who have no idea where they got hepatitis.

[seabeyond]

71. i gave you the facts on the disease. it wasnt necessary for kids to get shots

it was a govt overreaction that i had to follow

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. Well it is definitely something I would want to look into very carefully

before deciding whether or not my kids needed the shot.

[seabeyond]

82. but i did. unlike many parents that just followed law without research

[proud2BlibKansan]

84. A lot of parents are not as conscientious as you are

I think I have told you that before. :)

[seabeyond]

86. yet.... we dismiss my conscientious parent and i am right

along with those parents that do not take care of their children.

[mongo]

55. Can we put some cameras in your house then?

To keep a better eye on your kids.

Oh, and you have to sign a waiver that you and your spouse will not have intimate relations while the kids are in the house -- even if they are asleep they may wake up and be traumatized.

Better remove anything sharper than a butter knife too. Since we can't trust you to take care of your child's teeth, we certainly can't trust you to keep the steak knives out of their hands...

Glad to know you have no problem with us keeping an eye on your kids for you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

64. That is what professionals who work with kids do

No need for the cameras to invade your privacy. When your kids go to the doctor, he is watching out for their welfare; when they go to day care and to school, the professionals there are also keeping an eye on your kids.

And no, like I said, I have no problem with knowing the society I live in cares about my kids and makes sure they are cared for properly. If I didn't like it, I could always move to a third world country, like one of those in Africa where they do vaginal circumcisions on little girls.

[MindPilot]

34. So would you be in favor of requiring a license to be a parent?

That sounds like what you're saying. "we can always decide who is not allowed to be a parent because they are incapable"

[seabeyond]

38. right

i was being sarcastic with the same disdain that i find for people passing law that i must follow because of the parents not doing their job.

[IdaBriggs]

112. Yes! I would *LOVE* that! Take a basic parenting class, and pass

a freaking test before you have kids! Woo Hoo! Here are some of the basic questions I would put on it:

1) Do you actually *want* children? (If no, you don't get to have kids until the answer is "yes".)

2) At what age is it acceptable to leave your children unsupervised for an evening while you go to a bar to get drunk and pick up new sex partner(s)?

3) If your boyfriend/girlfriend wants to "discipline" your child using boiling water, would you consider this acceptable?

I would *LOVE* it if folks other than infertility patients actually had to "justify" why the hell they want kids -- I know people who shouldn't *EVER* have been allowed to bring children into the world.

Of course, being able to stop Rotten People from having children that they then abuse/ mistreat/ neglect is simply a fantasy.

Sigh. :(

[mongo]

50. More nanny state parenting

One more step down the slippery slope where parents lose all rights to make decisions for their children.

Looks like you and I are a dying breed Seabeyond -- too many other people want to run our lives for us.

[seabeyond]

53. doesnt it just..... doesnt. and i tell you, i dont have faith and confidence

that all these people can do my life better than me. looking at where i sit, who i am, how i live and the choices i make. i am just not confident the govt is so much better living my life than i am. as a matter of fact, i am pretty damn sure i can do it way better.

we are going down this road of all those so afraid and feeling so imcompetent,.... that we must swing in tis direction. first in the 60's we fought for freedoms. then because some were not responsible with those freedoms given, we swung to the religious ruling us with their law because people were so afraid, and now we have the nanny state swing in to take place of the religious who have failed, showing how one cannot dictate morals, so the left will dictate behaviors.

i am so blessed to have more faith in peoples ability to do their lives, though not perfectly, and not in utopia, i am clever enough to realize even laws dictating every movement is not going to bring that to us, will just give us a whole new set of problems to deal with

[Shakespeare]

60. No, actually, it isn't.

Like I said, go spend some time in a Head Start classroom. This isn't about nanny state parenting. Not by a long shot.

[seabeyond]

67. it is exactly nanny state. it couldnt be better defined but by this

but all those that agree with nanny laws will insist they are not. it is a blindness the nannies have

[Shakespeare]

74. No, it exactly isn't.

It's a public health issue.

[seabeyond]

75. again, right on with what the nannies say to pass their laws n/t

[Shakespeare]

Okay, let's have no laws at all.

Let's toss out all the clean water regulations, and have zero CAFE standards. Let's not legislate anything for the public good, because that would be BAD, right?

Good god. Some of the bullshit I see on DU some days never fails to amaze me.

And I'm rather bored with poking at you, seabeyond. You're so woefully predictable.

[seabeyond]

83. that is the argument. all or nothing. can't come up with anything

reduce it to me saying it is all or nothing. right

[mongo]

125. If it's a public health issue

then bring the dentists to the classroom and head start - and provide necessary care FOR FREE to ALL kids.

How much you want to bet this law was lobbied for by the dental assoc?

The make sure we can afford our Lexus payments law of 2007.

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. No one is taking your rights as a parent away

If you take good care of your kids, you probably don't even know these laws exist.

I know a 10 year old who was forced into prostitution when the meth lab her parents operated in their house wasn't producing enough income to support the family. Surely you can agree it is a good thing there are laws in place to take this child away from that home and punish her parents. Or do you believe that they too have rights to raise their kids as they see fit?

[seabeyond]

85. as absurd as this is.... not all 10 yr olds are taken away form parents

in case the parent may have them go into prostitution that have meth labs ot producing.

there are laws to go after negligent parents. this law is passed to go after both the parenting parents and those that dont

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. If you take care of your kids, you have nothing to worry about

These "nanny laws" are just common sense. If you have common sense and do what is right, you are left alone. However, if you have a neighbor who parents like the ones I told you about with the meth lab, then surely you understand why it is important for the legal system to step in and take care of that child.

[seabeyond]

89. if you do nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about an intrusive govt

i hear ya

[proud2BlibKansan]

106. We are talking about child protection legislation

[seabeyond]

90. good chattin proud. i always enjoy talking with you about kids

gonna read a koontz book. have a good new year

[proud2BlibKansan]

107. Hey you too sea!

Have a great new year! :hi:

[Odin2005]

122. Must be a baby-boomer thing.

Every nanny-statist I've ran into has been a Boomer with a bad authoritarian attitide. I haven't ran into Gen-Xers with the same kind of attitude.

[donco6]

10. So where do you draw the line?

We have laws about feeding kids. We have laws about clothing kids. We have laws about sending kids to school. We in Colorado have laws about immunizations. But a law about dental care is "too far"? Why?

Where do you draw the line, and how do you know it's drawn in the correct spot?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. As soon as all parents do their job and do it right

we can repeal laws like this.

[seabeyond]

39. nanny state n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. Doing what is BEST for kids n/t

[seabeyond]

46. it may be what is best for a small group of kids, but not all kids.

and it is not going to work. it is going to be another bill for parents to pay that headstart wont cover. and the parent knows it isnt necessary. we are already paying money for all the school suplies the system insists a parent pays, and now they are going to have a dental bill that wasnt necessary but had to do because of the kids not being cared for.

i can afford all that. it doesnt financially hurt me. i dont like it, but i do it and beyond because i know there are lots of families struggling. four kids into school and having to buy $60 of school supply per child, just for the first day. beyond the clothes.

just another weight to put on a lot of working families shoulders, when there are better ways of doing this.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. So what is a better way?

If we wait to turn parents in for medical neglect, the kid has HUGE dental problems that will be expensive (and chances are our tax dollars will be paying for that child's dental care).

I have seen some horrific things. I could write a book about bad parenting. I have a kid right now who is severely mentally ill and his parents refuse to get treatment for him. So he hears voices and assaults people and gets kicked out of school because Mom and Dad are either too thoughtless or too stupid to see that the kid needs professional help.

Sorry but until there are no more parents who neglect their kids, I am very much in favor of nanny state laws. Like I said, I come down on the side of taking care of kids and doing what is best for them.

[seabeyond]

56. that is the true bitch with allowing anyone to have babies

[proud2BlibKansan]

59. LOL Don't get me started on that one

My first culture shock as a teacher was during my first year. I was 27, teaching 4th grade (9 and 10 year olds) and I was stunned that so many of the parents were younger than I was. One day I said something about this to the 1st grade teacher (6 and 7 year olds) and she told me most of her parents were younger than 20. Yep, that makes them 13 or 14 when they had their babies.

[mongo]

63. Bad parents and kids with dental problems

is the price you pay for living in a FREE SOCIETY.

You do not want to live in a free society.

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. So kids with rotten teeth, kids in pain from tooth decay

That doesn't bother you?

[seabeyond]

70. of course it does. how arrogant to sugggest otherwise. as it bothers me

that kids are taught to be bigots, or are taught the strident fundamentalist christian rules of all are sinners, as it does in the families kids are not given love, and connections with parents equally as it is with children that dont have food on the table, are so poor join army to fight in wrong war, as it is to see children without clothes, or even parents around, or allowed to read abundant amounts of books or are not fed three well balanced meals a day at least one sitting at a family table to talk and interact with each other.

all these things and so much more are just as important to me as a kids teeth. are we going to "law" all of this

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. Until all kids are safe and well cared for, YES

I support these kinds of laws.

[seabeyond]

48. tell you another thing. if ca is so set on this, why are they putting expence on parent

why arent they funding it in school and having a dentist come in and have all children open mouth to see condition of mouth in the school and schools and taxpayers pay. like they did in the 60;s giving me my immunization shots. like they do with eye checks and hearing tests.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. It's probably too expensive

Health care is not as reasonable as it was in the 60s.

[seabeyond]

72. do you see what you are saying. f* the individual family, too expensive

for school, let the parent pick it up once again, even though it isnt necessary cause we say so. geez

[proud2BlibKansan]

80. Preventive dental care IS a necessity

geez

[seabeyond]

88. this is a windfall for the denistry industry. a 5 yr old generally has no

problems with their teeth. they are baby teeth. issue generally dont come up until kid is older. in all their caring are they insisting on the third grade having teeth checked, adn 6th and 9th. otherwise they are not even kinda hitting on the problem of poor dental care. older teeth, time for disease, adult teth placement

also.... any kid that is not given braces and allowed into adulthood is abusive in my book. sarcastic. it effects them for life how the are received in job placement and productivity as studies show. is only three thousand for a family. maybe a tad more. any responsible parent would provide.

[Shakespeare]

91. "A 5 yr old generally has no problems with their teeth" WRONG WRONG WRONG

Your beginning assumption is completely false. The California legislature didn't make this new law blithely nor without serious research. As I said earlier, if you spend time in a Head Start classroom, you'll see just how bad dental problems in preschoolers can be--how rampant, and how debilitating. Rotten baby teeth have a dramatic impact on how adult teeth develop; this is not just about teaching kids how to brush, or dealing with a few cavities in baby teeth. This is a really seroius matter.

Just basing your opinion on your personal experience does not mean you have the first clue about what you're talking about here. It's a very serious problem.

[NorthernSpy]

103. Seabeyond, there's a word for kids with healthy teeth and no dentist:

Lucky.


I understand where you're coming from, because I also didn't see a dentist until I was a teen, but never had cavities anyway.

And it took me a while to really get this, too: for many people, good self-care will NOT be sufficient to prevent serious dental problems. And those problems start early.


My heart really aches for all those people who are stuck with bad teeth, because they truly suffer. They're afraid to smile, they're in pain a lot, they might have trouble eating a balanced diet -- all kinds of misery, really. Bad teeth are a terribly stigmatizing condition in our culture.

[seabeyond]

104. you are right on all you say. what is this going to accomplish?

i have been thinking about this. all people will take their 5 year olds to get their teeth looked at. (this really is not about some have healthy and some have unhealthy. it is the law that i have issue with. all should take care of their teeth. period. my oldest has fathers genetic make up and he has to have work on his teeth. braces and at 11 cavities. we caught way early. youngest genetically takes after my family, probably wont need braces and no cavities. that isn't my issue. i understand genetics plays a role and dental care is important. that being said).

all required to take 5 yr old in. dentist says there are problems. most all will not have dental care thru govt and money is coming out of pocket since most dont have dental healthcare which is a crock industry anyway. the dentist says there are problems. what is this going to do. what is this going to accomplish. the parent being forced to do this that wouldn't already take care of kids teeth are going to all of a sudden become responsible. the parent that cant afford the check up is going to all of a sudden have the money to fill those three very small cavities that will cost three hundred dollars? the kids make it past this check and a dentist isn't required at anymore ages... this is going to ensure a lifetime of healthy care for these kids resulting in taking care of all the problems for kids dental problems?

i do not see what exactly people think will be accomplished by this law. the parents that dont care will continue to not care. the people that cant afford dental work yet make too much to be on govt plan will still not be able to afford for their kids. and a whole lot of people that do parent their kids and take care of their kids health are going to be forced to do something with their child that they know they dont need for that child cause govt tells them to.

sorry. i do not seeing this as being the answer. or effective. or efficient governing.

[Solon]

111. Since when is preventative care unneeded?

This is what I'm trying to figure out here, you are objecting to a CHECKUP, for crying out loud, which usually involves a visual inspection of the teeth by a dentist, and X-Ray of the mouth, and, if you want it, a thorough cleaning. Kids, and adults, should, after around the age of 4 or so, get at least a yearly checkup, so that any problems that DO manifest, can be taken care of CHEAPLY. A cavity can lead to rotting the root of the tooth, requiring it too be pulled, or a root canal, gum infections can spread from the mouth to other sections of the body, leading to more serious health problems, some life threatening, etc.

I always went to the dentist, as far back as I remember, for checkups, yearly. For most of that time, since before kindergarten, to about 4th grade, I manifested no problems. Then, on the next visit, I ended up having two cavities, they were small, and the dentist filled them up, and, as an option, filed down my canine teeth, they were a little too large and the permanent ones came in about 2 years early, and when I wasn't careful, I ended up with "holy lips", which was painful. Since then no additional problems cropped up, though my canine teeth ended up growing back, and I learned to deal with them. Those parent who feel their kids HAVE NO PROBLEMS are those that need to go to the dentist for the checkups the most, my parents had no clue I had cavities in my teeth, one was on a baby tooth, the other on a permanent tooth, and even though I hated it at the time, I'm glad they were so anal about doctor and dentist visits.

I'm 28 now, and have a total of one cavity in my mouth, the one left on that permanent tooth, over 15 years ago, and though my tooth health can be because of genetics, mostly from my dad, who has never had major tooth problems, it also is because of the fact that I never missed a dental appointment, and still make them. I usually go in for the cleaning, unfortunately, while my teeth are healthy, they have a bad habit of getting stained by coffee and tea, my two favorite drinks, which kinda sucks.

[seabeyond]

114. i am not opposed to dental care. i am opposed to this law

two seperate issues. nowhere am i opposed to a parent taking care of their children. not my argument

[Solon]

116. If a minority of parents don't bother to have checkups for their kids...

Shouldn't those kids be offered SOME protection? This is why we have mandatory immunizations, etc. at certain ages, isn't that correct. This is both a public health and a child welfare issue, and I have no problem with laws that passed for both reasons.

Besides, laws like this aren't passed in a vacuum, most likely this is a RESPONSE TO A PROBLEM, complaints from school teachers, public health officials, etc. If the problem already exists, and this law addresses that, what's the problem?

[proud2BlibKansan]

105. I beg to differ

I have known lots of 5 year olds with horrid teeth.

[Shakespeare]

62. strawman n/t

[seabeyond]

73. it is the main issue, nothing to do with little ole strawman that likes to dismiss

the point of the whole issue so you dont have to deal with

[IdaBriggs]

113. What's wrong with a "nanny state" mentality?

I think there are a lot of "good parents" out there, but I am also personally familiar with the fact that there are a TON of "bad parents" out there.

A well informed parent is a great thing, but I would say that they (you?) are more of the exception than the rule. Everyone else gets really...busy.

Four of my nieces/nephews weren't taken to the dentist until my sister (their step-mother) came into their lives because their bio-Mom was AFRAID of the dentist, and their father (now an ex) is a moran. Thousands of dollars worth of dental work later....And one of these kids was in fourth grade, unable to read BECAUSE HIS EYES DIDN'T WORK RIGHT and he needed surgery (which my sister, the "Evil Step-Mother" insisted he get). My sister, the Evil Step-Mother, then got all obnoxious about making sure that he received access to special tutoring, etc. from the schools to help get him caught up on his BASIC skills (like reading and math). And this is a middle class (albeit lower end) family....

Sigh....:(

[NorthernSpy]

12. we didn't go to the dentist until I was 13...

It turned out that I didn't have any cavities -- and then I felt really stupid and guilty for nagging my parents into making the appointment. :blush:


I also made them get smoke detectors and a fire extinguisher (to replace the one I made myself out of baking soda). I was a worrier, even as a kid.

[ldf]

92. there is a lot to be said for "good genes"

and the fact that you inherit same.

fuck the rest of us.

(don't hate me because i'm beautiful.....) :nopity:

[seabeyond]

93. where did i state depriving people of dental care because i have genetically

healthy and strong teeth. i missed it. what a stupid post

[Rosemary2205]

18. BTW - I have a dumb question.

do parents brush teeth of babies and toddlers?

Forgive me. I have no kids and all the foster kids I raised were housebroken before I got them. I'd think toothpaste would not be good for LITTLE kids.

[The Straight Story]

26. I always did

They have special toothpaste for kids. Tastes like bubble gum :)

[notadmblnd]

30. when they're very small you should take and

wipe their mouths out with a wash cloth during bath time. But my almost 2 year old niece is using a brush already(of course with help from mom). I took my son to the dentist when he was 2 because I was concerned about his bite. I was told not to bring him back before he was three. He's 13 now and just got his braces off and only 2 small cavities.

[proud2BlibKansan]

36. I did

What's bad about toothpaste?

[Rosemary2205]

45. Thanks all

Never even thought of the washrag in the bath thing.

[bperci108]

79. Little kids can't/don't get enough of the toothpaste spit out....

...and can ingest too much fluoride.

The preparation made for the littler ones has less, or even no, fluoride in it.


When they get old enough and have more experience, switch over to the adult stuff.

[Solon]

119. They make special "swallowable" toothpaste for babies and toddlers...

I know, my nephew, now 2 and a half, has had his teeth brushed/wiped since the first tooth broke in. The toothpaste used doesn't contain fluoride, which, as we all know, you shouldn't swallow.

[judaspriestess]

57. I'm ok with the dental law

I know the pain of not having dental care until too late. I lost two permi teeth at the age of about nine years old because of poor dental care and I had a ton of cavaties. It was devastating. I now have a 14K super extra white veneer smile which I only got through refinancing my house. Teeth and a good smile are very important for esteem and confidence.

[Initech]

95. So these are the laws we (twice) elected Arnold Schwarzenegger for?

:wow: :crazy:

Although I must admit, I do like the idea of free beer...

[kineneb]

99. shots and dental exam for kindergarten a good idea

I live in a very low-income rural area (yes, there are such places in California), and there ARE programs for the poor to get free or subsidized dental care. I know, because I have used the clinic. A kid entering kindergarten with rotten teeth will have a difficult time learning. Yes, the parents should be more responsible, but the children should not be punished for the failings of the parent(s).

[ellisonz]

108. What the hell is a fizzling cigarette?

How does it differ?

[Raine]

115. I think

those are the ones that go out if they are left sitting in an ash tray for a certain amount of time etc. It's good because it can help prevent the cig from causing a fire.

[ellisonz]

123. Yes,

But what is the actual design difference...does the cigarette burn slower? Either way, f the nanny state.

[Raine]

124. It's something in

the paper was how they explained it on the 'news'.

[Solon]

110. The dental law is a good thing, I talked to my cousin, who is a dentist, recently...

He recommends that kids have a dental checkup at around 4 years old, which makes sense, cause they would have had their teeth for a while by then.

[Critters2]

117. Uh-oh. Just realized I haven't bought the CO detector for the first floor

New law in Illinois--carbon monoxide detectors on each floor. I have one in my bedroom, but not downstairs.

I'm in violation! :wow:

[earth mom]

127. Is the state paying for the Dental care? Because if not, this law is B.S.

Why in the hell is the government being allowed a say in peoples personal lives in this way?! This is no different than banning abortion or gay rights being denied. Screw em! :grr: