"him who is??!" Did he just say that? "Him who is the ressurection?"

[jazzjunkysue]

Did I hear that right?

These pastors need a little more than home schooling, if that's the way they handle grammar.

"him who is?"

[Raine]

1. Yeah

I thought that was a bit bizarre.

[undeterred]

2. Not to mention feminist theology/ inclusive language

We just went back about 50 years.

[jazzjunkysue]

3. But they'd like to add another 1450 to that 50, no doubt. n/t.

[Critters2]

7. What would have been more inclusive?

"She or he who is the resurrection?" I use inclusive language for God and humankind always. But the simple fact is that Jesus was male. It raises all kinds of questions and issues for me, but it's a fact, nonetheless.

[CrispyQ]

10. Not just Jesus, but God to.

God, who I was taught in Sunday school, is genderless. "Then why do we always refer to God has he/him?" I asked. Got in some trouble over that question.

Arghhhhh......just take it on faith, little one. :puke:

[Critters2]

22. In my church we don't refer to God as male. Ever. nt

[CrispyQ]

26. So you avoid using a pronoun to refer to God at all times?

I admire that.

on edit: Read your response below & love it!!

:thumbsup:

[Critters2]

29. Yep. God is just God. Granted the word "God" implies masculinity, too,

but hey, we live in a fallen world. Whatcha gonna do?

[ContraBass Black]

24. I thought it was a linguistic convention.

[Critters2]

25. I remember my first day in Hebrew Bible class (formerly Old Testament)

The prof said "'God' is spelled G-O-D. If you spell it H-I-M or H-E, I'll assume you don't know how to spell it. You get three spelling errors in a paper. Your fourth misspelling will cause you to get a failing grade. Just thought you should know."

No need to tell me twice.

[WCGreen]

4. Sounds like Harry Potter speak...

He whose name shall not be spoken...

[jazzjunkysue]

14. Ewwww...I never thought of that. I guess he was trying to say jesus w/o

saying Jesus.

Gotta use every opportunity to shove jesus down our throats.

[QC]

16. Well, it is a funeral.

Religion sometimes comes up in those.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

5. Yeah, I heard it too.

The entire phrase "he who is the resurrection...." is the object of the preposition "of." That phrase has a subject and predicate. I thought it might a construction that was peculiar to the Book of Common Prayer, but I didn't want to take the time to look it up.

I have several books of grammar that I have acquired over the years at church rummage sales and so forth. They are timeless.

Don't get me started on "whomever."

[jazzjunkysue]

15. But he said "him" who is. That was the wierd part. n/t.

[Solomon]

20. Aw, it's just high faluting religious poetry. You know. If they don't say

it that way, it won't sound like "scripture".

[mahatmakanejeeves]

21. Yes, I was watching.

I agree; it sounded weird to me too. I have a Book of Common Prayer downstairs, and if this line is in there, I can find it.

When he lived in Alexandria VA, Ford attended Immanuel Episcopal Church-on-the-Hill, which is about a half-mile from where he lived. It is across the street from the Virginia Theological Seminary, so the priests there best be up on their grammar.

One oft-misquoted passage I see on the Internets is John 8:7,* "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

The first part is "he ... is;" then the second part is "{you} let him." Subject; object.

Next topic: thee and thou. "Get thee to a nunnery;" How great thou art."

* I am aware that this keystroke combination produces a smiley face; it does, however, lead to the intended website. Call it today's mahatmakanejeeves lagniappe.

[Critters2]

6. Who said this? Is it from the Ford funeral? If so, trust me

Episcopal priests are NOT homeschooled. Yale Divinity is Episcopalian. Yes, there are educated Christians out there, believe it or not.

It's probably a reading from the Book of Common Prayer, with its roots in the 16th Century. Some of the language is really qutie poetic, but that's hard to see if you're just looking to be critical.

[jazzjunkysue]

17. I'm looking at the grammar: Him who is. Period.

[QC]

8. It's in the Book of Common Prayer.

Sometimes archaic grammatical constructions sound funny to modern ears.

Sounds like your own homeschooling might have been a bit deficient.

[madeline_con]

9. Probably some old school English from the Middle ages. n/t

spell edit

[WinkyDink]

11. What was the beginning of this sentence?

[k_jerome]

12. anything to bust on some xtians, huh? nt.

[jazzjunkysue]

18. That's right. Welcome to DU where there's a war on God going on.

You'll have plenty of opportunities to practice your righteous indigination around here.

Let's start with the fact that a president's funeral is no time to be selling xtian propaganda, regardless of the bad grammar.

And if you think I'm knocking xtians, consider the damage Bush 2.0 is doing to your reputation. American xtians are now known all over the world as brutal, torturous occupiers.

God bless america. Screw everyone else. I don't remember that one in the bible. What page was that on?

[k_jerome]

19. i'm an agnostic. i just recognize idiotic intolerance when i see it.

it has been shown by others in the know that your childish insults re. the schooling of the speaker is off base. admit it and move on to the next group you will insult.

or do you feel your post was a constructive criticism of the practitioners of this religion?

[QC]

23. You'll recognize plenty of it around here, then.

Some topics make knees jerk so furiously that people just have to respond, even if they don't have anything worthwhile to say.

That's how you get presumably educated people pretending not to know that a text written in 1552 in England might not sound exactly like contemporary American English.

[Orrex]

13. It's a semi-obsolete construction, but not without precedent

Rather like Good things come to him who waits.

"Him" is the object of the preposition, and "who waits" is the clause describing "him."

In modern structure, we're more likely to say "Good things come to he who waits," on the assumption that "he who waits" is, as a unit, the object of the preposition.

[Skinner]

28. I'm pretty sure that in modern structure, we punt and say:

"Good things come to those who wait."

Which conveniently side-steps the problem of what case to use.

[Skinner]

27. What is the beginning of the sentence?

I am not a grammarian, but I'm pretty sure "him who is" could be correct depending on context. Consider the following two hypothetical sentences:

1. "Let us all give thanks to him who is the resurrection."

2. "Jesus is he who is the resurrection."

In the first sentence, "him" is the object of the preposition "to", so it takes the object case: me, you, him, her, it, us, you, them. The clause "who is the resurrection" describes "him" but it uses the subject case because "who" is the subject of the clause "who is the resurrection."

In the second sentence, "he" is the predicate nominative (I think) of the subject Jesus, so it takes the subject case: I, you, he, she, it, we, you, they.

If there are any English language experts out there -- please feel free to correct me if any of this is wrong.

[DavidDvorkin]

30. You are correct

Without the preceding part of the sentence, we don't know if it's right or wrong.