Tweety comment about "Marxism" reflects cluelessness of MSM and Beltway Pols

[Armstead]

Yesterday on Hardball, Chris Matthews inadvertantly revealed the basic problem that is wrong with the whole basic premise of the Message coming from the MSM and Beltway Politicians and Conventional Wisdom.

Even though Tweety is a bit, um, erratic, on a personal level, he revealed the underlying bias and the complete distortion of what has become the conventional wisdom over the last 25 years.

He was discussing issues in the upcoming 08 electi0n, and the talk turned to economic issues. One of his questions/comments was (slightly paraphrased):

"I don't want to sound like a Marxist here, but shouldn't labor and workers be rewarded appropriately?"

He also said at another point (again slightly paraphrased): "I don't want to come across as some kind of populist, but shouldn't people get angry when the see how much power and wealth the people at the top are getting at the expense of everyone else?"

Now, in both cases, his rhetorical questions were totally correct. But the problem is that Tweety felt the need to distance himself when asking them. "I'm not a Marxist but...."

Those questions are simply basic common sense and decency. Of course labor should be rewaeded. Of course it is bothersome to see an oligarchy. Duh. Before 1980, such questions were considered no-brainers. They were the conventional wisdom. Suggesting otherwise would have made one seem like a right wing nitjob.

But we have fallen so far in our basic standards, that a host of a major television show feels the need to apologize for asking it. Tweety cast them as bold questions, too hot to handle. He was afraid that raising them would make him sound like a left wing radical -- so he said "I'm no Marxist but..."

It's sad and angering that basic common sense and decency is considered "Marxism" and outside the box thinking.

[goclark]

1. I agree with you

Tweety is so "In the Beltway" that it is impossible for him to come out.

Of all the brilliant people that we could be listening to 24/7 we are stuck with Imus, Tweety and Solodad etc.

Where is the Cream that should be in our coffee in MSM?

[Armstead]

13. The Conservative Cream

The cream we get is conservative cream.

[illinoisprogressive]

2. I have been noticing a change in the tone

A year ago it was still licking the boots of the gop and proping up the talking points.
I think Matthews is really angry about the war. And the ratings on Countdown has made the others take note.
He has been slowly rediscoving his roots with Tip.
He still reverts but, he is getting better.

[annabanana]

8. He lacks the "language" to object. . He may want to, but

the RW Wurlitzer has deprived him of the words to use.

[Klukie]

3. This is a great example...

of how labeling can ruin a great thought. It seems when labels are attached to a group, that group somehow becomes less credible. It is such a shame that our society would ignore a great thought just to ensure that they are not considered part of "that group".

[Armstead]

14. I don't want to sound like some kind of Crazy Women's Libber but...

...isn't it correct that women should have the right to vote?

I'm waiting for us to descend to that level again.

[KittyWampus]

16. I don't want to sound like a Facist but shouldn't markets be allowed to dictate public policy?

[Armstead]

20. It's all about balance

Markets are part of the equation. But only a part.

[charlie]

19. Nobody's internalized the labels

better than the DLC. Hypervigilance against appearing to be one of "those kinds of Democrats" is most of their stock in trade.

[Warpy]

4. Most people are utterly clueless about Marxism

because they've never read Marx. I think a majority of them are afraid of catching cooties or being put on an FBI watch list unless they pay cash for the books at a bookstore, and good luck to you if you're looking for them in a bookstore.

People have just been sold a silly shorthand that Marxism = totalitarianism, something that is utter rubbish. Leninism provided the road to totalitarianism, substituting the party oligarchy for the aristocratic one. Other nominally communist countries have adopted that pattern. It doesn't exist in Marx's writings.

"The Communist Manifesto" is a quick and easy read. "Capital" is a much slower go, but all truly nourishing books tend to be.

I find Marx suffers from the same problem that Rand does, although Marx's observations of the capitalist system are dead on and he's a far better writer: both authors envision a Utopia in which all humans are perfect and consistently play by the rules.

A good introduction I found for those people who want to start educating themselves is at http://www.amazon.com/Marx-Engels-Reader-Karl-Marx/dp/039309040X

[Odin2005]

25. I like Marx's economics, I don't like his deterministic theory of history.

I found his theory of history simplistic, western-centric (China, for example, never had a "slavery" phase), and his utpian future has an air of eschantology about it, casuing to to degenerate into a religion-like form in many respects. I also dislike his economic determinist blank-slatism.

[Canuckistanian]

5. Very illustrative on how far the goalposts have been shifted.

At least in the minds of DC pundits. And they're the only voices being heard.

If anyone ever suggests a better deal for workers or those on the lower economic scale, the cry goes out - "welfare state" or a sharp criticism of "greedy unions". Even as labor steadily loses ground.

And if anyone even hints at making the rich and privileged paying more of their fair share or even giving up any of their their many, many benefits, they scream "free market" or "job creation".

It's time we started shouting back equally loudly.

[Kickin_Donkey]

23. Another canard: "class war"

[Canuckistanian]

27. As someone once said (I forget who)

If this is class war, then the upper class fired the first shots.

[annabanana]

6. "Marxism" = "The sum of all evils" = "The 'not us'"

It has become the bugaboo bad guy to scare the kids into good behavior. What it actually is or isn't no longer matters.

[KittyWampus]

17. Freeper women at craft forum I frequent use "marxist" or "socialist" referring to Democrats

the same way school yard kids call each other poopie-head. It's just a pejorative term to them. Their master Rush or Sean have fed the terms to them. They only know it's Baaaaaaaad.

[Canuckistanian]

28. Ask them to give you an example next time

Or at least give them a dictionary definition of Marxist of Socialist.

I doubt they even know the true meaning of the words other than some variation of "evil".

[Toots]

7. Does this mean you don't believe in the "trickle down theory"?

:eyes:

[annabanana]

9. Oh.. the "stand still so we can piss on you" theory?

No thanks.

[Armstead]

12. Trickle down theory = Piss on theory

[Neecy]

10. good catch

The way that Tweety and other MSM types frames the issues is downright dangerous, because it gives the impression that anything to the left of neo-conservativism or unbridled capitalism is a loony and frightening political philosophy.

I remember him getting very excited and sputtering at one of his guests a few months ago, "But is Hillary a socialist? Is she a socialist?" My jaw dropped - this was simply the most stunningly ignorant thing I've ever seen a so-called pundit say. To equate a moderate Democrat with a 'socialist' is leading us to a place that's very dangerous to our democracy - what's left of it, anyway.

[Armstead]

15. That's how Howard Dean got labeled as a leftist weirdo in 04

Dean dared to deviate from the script somewhat, so he was tagged as being "far left" when in fact he is merely a very moderate liberal with backbone.

[KittyWampus]

18. To be fair, Dean and his supporters ACTIVELY cultivated that image of far left.

here on DU, I argue still with people who think Dean is not a Centrist.

[Armstead]

21. I 5hink that was a defensive response to the sick spectrum of today

Dean is a Centrist -- but in the true meaning of what that should mean, which is a balance of liberalism and valid traditions of conservatism.

The DLC definition of centrist is no-position support of the corporate status quo and rejection of liberalism.

That shows how sick things are today, when someone who advocates actual balance and moderate liberalism is considered the "left."

[PaDem]

11. This is the result of a 30 year GOP attack on the media..........

the whole "liberal media bias" meme was carefully crafted by GOP strategists long ago and has proved to be an incredibly effective strategy. The media is now on the defensive, and instead of calling things like they are we have people like Matthews whose first journalistic concern is to avoid the "liberal" label.

[Ms. Clio]

22. Yes, those comments truly reveal how far to the right our entire discourse has shifted

all the way back to the Gilded Age, apparently. Horrifying.

[King Coal]

24. WOW! Another great post! This place is hoppin'. K&R.

The greatest page ain't big enough.

"I don't want you to think that I'm not for cheap labor and everything like that....."

I know people who admit to thinking like that.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. He could have also said, "I don't want to sound like a Christian here...

but shouldn't laborers be rewarded accordingly?"

[GreatCaesarsGhost]

29. isn't tweety building a $5,000,000 vacation home on cape cod?

or martha's vineyard?