US Dollar In Precipitous Decline

[Jcrowley]

How Dangerous is the Dollar Drop?
By Christian Reiermann

Is an end of an era looming in the foreign exchange markets? The dollar has been depreciating against the euro for weeks. Currency experts and the German government don't yet see this as cause for alarm. The US currency's role as a lead currency isn't as important as it used to be, they say.

Like most central bankers, Jean-Claude Trichet, the president of the European Central Bank (ECB), has a penchant for cryptic comments. Injecting a certain degree of incomprehensibility is a signal to the professionals that he's competent. And when it comes to laymen, industry jargon has the desired effect of generating the necessary respect.

Last Thursday the public was treated to yet another example of Trichet's convoluted speaking style. A number of risks, the ECB president said, could jeopardize a generally favorable economic outlook in the euro zone. They included, according to Trichet, "concerns regarding possible uncontrolled developments triggered by global economic imbalances."

What Europe's most powerful protector of the currency was actually saying was this: The gradual decline of the dollar in the foreign currency markets in recent weeks could pose a threat to the economy. What Trichet was also trying to broadcast is that the ECB has recognized and is aware of the threat.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,453906,00.html

[ShockediSay]

1. If the drop is steep, sudden and accelerating (well deserved w/ BushCo's

national debt methinks)

all hell breaks loose

[Warpy]

9. Of course, but will we be able to blame the real culprits?

By them I mean the no-government wack jobs like Norquist, all the supply siders grooving on the Laffer Curve without realizing just how high taxes have to be for it to work, and all those executives who have been offshoring jobs so they can continue to line their pockets at the country's expense. There are so many villains out there it will be hard to choose among them.

Don't forget, we went through the same scenario of a very small class of obscenely rich men beggaring the majority, of destroyed government oversight, and another big crash. Will we have the intelligence and will to see this one through, to amend the constitution to prevent the concentration of wealth, and to put safeguards into place to prevent the exploitation of the vast majority of the population?

FDR was able to borrow his way out of the Depression and into WWII. This country won't be able to do that now. We are going to have to take a close look at ourselves and our government's priorities, and we are not going to like what we see.

In the long term, we may be able to see our industry rebuilt and protected. In the short term, we are going to be crushed by inflation.

The bad news is that no idea ever dies, no matter how stupid it may be. The financial scams of today will be resurrected in the future, just like these were largely resurrected from Harding, Coolidge, and Hoover. The question is whether or not we're ready to learn how to stop them.

[The Doctor.]

52. Well here's a good start;

"By them I mean the no-government wack jobs like Norquist, all the supply siders grooving on the Laffer Curve without realizing just how high taxes have to be for it to work, and all those executives who have been offshoring jobs so they can continue to line their pockets at the country's expense. There are so many villains out there it will be hard to choose among them."

I really don't think it will be all that difficult to ID them.

The Records are quite clear. We just need to hold the internet for a few more months.

[Virginia Dare]

67. Don't forget Alan Greespan...

He had no small hand in this, and he very well knows what's coming. The uber-rich have been busy squirrelling away their assets for several years now in preparation for what's coming. The rest of us really don't have that option. Even if you stuff cash in your mattress, it's not going to be worth a whole lot anyway. We're going to be stuck with massive credit card debt and a bunch of crap that's worth nothing.

I guess the best advice for the average American is to get out of your consumer debt as quickly as you can, if you can, invest in inflation protected bonds and hope for the best.

[angry_chuck]

84. well said

recommended: G Edward Griffin - The Creature From Jekyll Island

it's about the federal reserve and the dollar. good stuff

wonder why rockefeller, pnac, cfr all show up related in wiki? check it out. truth is stranger than fiction.

the borrower is always servant to the lender.

[Wiley50]

77. So How Come Gold Is Still Falling?

I don't get it?

[angry_chuck]

86. in march 2006

the fed stopped reporting (the audit) of their assets. They are 'making up' gold to inject into the market in order to prolong the time they have to stash their loot. how to fix the problem of inflation? standard style, of course; stop talking about the problem. duh.

[NV1962]

2. Related article on ballooning foreign ownership of national debt

A "cheap" dollar is a dangerous short-term fix for exports, of course.

But aside from the enormous danger of structural economic damage resulting from an uncontrolled slide of the dollar, there's also the issue of the solidity of the dollar as an expression of international trust in the US governing its own economy, tied into foreign ownership of national debt.

A few weeks ago USA Today had an OpEd about that here:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20061201/cm_usatoday/lookwhoownsusdebtnow

[Selatius]

3. It creates a threat to Europe because a depreciated US dollar means cheaper US goods

That'll hurt European firms in direct competition with US firms.

[Jcrowley]

7. Any thoughts

on why the us "A" team went to China this weekend?

Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke lead the delegation, along with five other cabinet-level officials, including Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez. Also in the delegation is Labor Secretary Elaine Chao, Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt, Energy Secretary Sam Bodman, and U.S. Trade Representative Susan Schwab.


Here's a report couched in mediaspeak:

U.S., China Clash on Currency
Both Countries Assertive as Economic Talks Open in Beijing

By Ariana Eunjung Cha
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, December 15, 2006; Page D01

BEIJING, Dec. 14 -- U.S. and Chinese leaders clashed publicly on the opening day of strategic economic talks, with Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. pushing China to revalue its currency and Chinese Vice Premier Wu Yi saying Americans do not have a full understanding of the situation.

After standing by as U.S. officials criticized her country's economic policies in the media during the past week, Wu set the tone for the meeting with assertive introductory remarks that spanned 20 typed pages and 5,000 years of Chinese history.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/14/AR2006121400681.html

[UpInArms]

20. prolly begging for them not to diversify all their trillion dollars

of reserves out of the US dollar.

Or maybe they were just putting their resumes out for the "next biggest economy" that was about to swallow the US whole?

[Danascot]

22. The Mogambo Guru tells why

The big news is that the Treasury Secretary and the chairman of the Federal Reserve are in China to hopefully make some deals, in which they will plead ("Please, please, please save our American economic butts!") with the Chinese to use their massive reserves, mostly dollars, and their growing political clout to keep this whole ridiculous economic mess from collapsing, and in return we will agree to give them missiles, weapons, fighter aircraft, war materiel, nuclear technology, supercomputers, a compliant Congress, our land, our businesses, our women, our children, barbeque sandwiches with a side of fries and anything else they want, as much as they want, anytime they want, which they will want because they are on their way to dominating the world. And now it is just a matter of negotiating how, and how much.

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/daughty/daughty121306.html

[roamer65]

40. The Chinese have the most to lose from devalution

The renminbi yuan is drastically undervalued compared to the dollar. I eventually expect the yuan to rise to .25 USD from its present .1277 USD.

Rumor also has it that the Chinese are going to try to corner the gold market, in an effort to establish gold-yuan convertibility. Any currency that goes back to a gold standard would immediately become the world's reserve currency. Period.

[Virginia Dare]

68. Which is why the uber-rich have been heavily investing...

in gold, for several years now.

[The Doctor.]

76. Doesn't look like a run...

After 45 minutes of trading, gold is down $2/oz.

Not what you'd expect during a run on the dollar.

Now let's make sure Congress is fiscally responsible so there's never a reason to take this possibility seriously.

[angry_chuck]

87. not only uber rich individuals

but govs have 45% of total world gold supplies. 30% is in jewelery and such. not much left for us.

[tkmorris]

95. Which further invalidates your point

Scarcer supply means that prices should rise even more precipitously than they are, which isn't happening.

[angry_chuck]

108. invalidate this

the fed is 'making up' gold, flat out deception. the prices would rise were it not for the false control measures of the fed. they are not reporting the M3 in order to hide the deception. If no one audits the gold who is to say how much there is? the fed. who stands to lose the most? you must look at who benefits. the banks cash out while america gets cashed in. get it? prices are rising and real wealth is declining. the hoard grows steadily. how much have you got? feel safe? then just keep on denying the obvious. sometimes the shadows are more comforting, i guess for you anyway...

[tkmorris]

116. Relax friend, I'm not your enemy

I'm on your side. I know full well what the Fed is up to, and fully agree that no longer reporting the M3 is being done to cover up shenanigans.

However, the M3 has little or nothing to do with auditing gold supply. Also, your apparent belief that gold prices were held down because a large portion of it is not available for trade is just backwards. It doesn't work that way.

The Fed and the big money guys are up to no good, and you should be worried. However, your understanding of what is actually going on is nonetheless flawed. That's cool, it's a difficult subject and much of what needs understanding is being hidden from view.

Take care.

[Nederland]

106. The Chinese will never move the yuan to a gold standard

Simply put, gold production cannot possibly match economic growth. Any gold standard currency would therefore be deflationary and shunned by everyone.

[roamer65]

117. Depends at what value you fix at.

It would have to be done in the manner the europeans created the ERM for entry into the euro. It's all in the mechanics. The Chinese are good at currency pegs. The mainland Chinese maintained the dollar-yuan peg for many years along with Hong Kong and its HK$ to US$ peg.

[Nederland]

121. No it doesn't

For the past 10 years, the Chinese economy has been growing at 8%-12% a year. In order to avoid deflation, their monetary supply has to grow by at least the same amount. Now if you have a fiat currency, that's not a problem--all you do is print more money. However, if your currency is on some type of gold standard, your gold reserves need to also grow at 8%-12% a year. This is true regardless of what value you fix the currency at. Whatever the exchange rate is, Chinese reserves would have to grow at a rate that is far larger than the rate at which new gold is being discovered.

Pegging to gold isn't like pegging to another currency. When the Chinese peg to the dollar, they are pegging to an item whose quantity (monetary supply) is being increased continually by the Federal Reserve. If you peg to gold, you are pegging to an item that has to be discovered and pulled out of the ground--and there is no guarantee that you can pull the stuff out of the ground at the same rate as your economy is growing at. In fact, given the incredible rate of growth in the Chinese economy, it is seriously doubtful that they could acquire enough gold to keep up.

[roamer65]

125. You're presuming they want to avoid deflation.

They very well may not in the longer term. They eventually will let the yuan appreciate much more rapidly, when they are ready to allow it. That's exactly what they told Bernanke and Paulson in China. Allowing the yuan to appreciate will take pressure off the maintenance of a gold-yuan peg. There still is a lot of gold out there, it may not be mines but it is tied up in the form of jewelry, bullion coins, etc. Higher gold prices will force that supply into the marketplace. Also, the Chinese economy will not maintain the present growth rate. It will eventually slow as the yuan appreciates. If the Chinese do desire a gold standard, I won't count them out. They are a very resourceful people and have put together quite an economic miracle already.

You can have deflation and growth at the same time. The United States did during 1880's and 1890's during our industrial buildup. Look at the Chinese, they're now economically where we were at during the 1880's and 90's.

[Nederland]

133. True

I am assuming that the Chinese wouldn't want a deflationary currency. That's simple common sense though. If your currency is deflationary, you have an incentive to hold on to cash because a year from now that cash will simply have more value. In those circumstances, everybody delays purchases and investment and slows your economy down. More importantly, a deflationary currency helps the rich (those with cash to hold) and hurts the poor (those who must spend money as soon as they get it to survive).

[mrdmk]

37. If you like that article US Delegation being lead around like a bull with a ring in his nose

from WP, you will love this PBS Frontline:
link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/red/view/

We also need to remember when the US confronts China, Wallmart is tells the US to leave China alone, we love them!
link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

I am putting some facts together for a latter post, be back!

on edit: Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke, wtf is he doing there! Bernanke represents the Federal Reserve which is a private bank, not the US Government. Numb Nuts * Jr. probably sent him there to tell the Chinese how to run their economy in conjunction with the US economy for the betterment of both BS.

[angry_chuck]

88. betterment of both...?

both sets of richies in each country because he could care less about our economy. it is just a tool to fill his coffer.

[Warpy]

10. What US goods?

I know, that was facetious. The problem they're going to face is the one we're facing now: an overvalued currency is going to make offshore manufacturing look attractively cheap.

[kineneb]

98. not so facetious

we have few export products- I think the major items are food and weaponry. The US does not manufacture clothing, metal goods, and hardly any kind of consumer goods anymore; check the labels in stores. Everything is made in China, India or southeast Asia.

[1932]

11. In American Theocracy, Kevin Phillips points out that the US$'s drop

in 2003-04 (before the 05-06 rebound), American exports didn't increase. In fact, they decreased. The US just doesn't produce that much anymore. He writes about how Germany, Switzerland and Japan, which have much higher export surpluses per capita than the US, manage to do achieve those surpluses -- they make good products, they support their manufacturing sector, and they support labor. The US is so far from doing these things that it's going to take much much more than a cheap dollar to fix these problems.

[alfredo]

12. Weapons. That's what they want the Euros to buy. They don't

give a shit about selling cars, dildos, or Levi's. They want the Euros and others to buy our guns, bombs, and aircraft.

[ama]

23. levi jeans

Are no longer made anywhere in USA

[alfredo]

30. We are doomed

[Virginia Dare]

69. Yes, those were outsourced to India several years back...

but they were quite generous to their former workers from what I understand, much more so than a lot of other companies. Doesn't make it right, though.

[Kolesar]

21. I would think high-value-added products would have increased exports (from the US)

...while commodity-consumer products continue to be outsourced to the cheapest labor markets like China and India.

[1932]

27. We don't make much of ANYTHING these days.

[A HERETIC I AM]

112. We don't make much of anything? Hm. Let me introduce the Thomas Register.

http://www.thomasnet.com/index.html

Yup...America is a manufacturing wasteland.......that must include the 3500 companies (at LEAST) listed in the "Machinery, Tools & Supplies" section ALONE.

http://www.thomasnet.com/browse/machinery-tools-supplies-1.html

Lets just see how many are into...oh...i don't know......glue.

http://www.thomasnet.com/browse/adhesives-sealants/adhesives-1.html

WOW!!! OVER 4000!!!

Golly...the steel industry is just a ghost anymore, isnt it?

http://www.thomasnet.com/browse/metals-metal-products/steel-1.html Except of course for the 463 companies listed that make steel beams.

Yup. We don't make shit any more.


Serious case of chicken little syndrom going on in this thread.

[1932]

128. Sorry for the use of hyperbole. However, the fact is that the US dollar

dropped in value in '03 and '04 and exports dropped too.

I respect Kevin Phillips and most everything he's written has been proven pretty accurate as time has paseed.

He said that the reason the dollar dropped and the trade deficit widened is because the US manufacturing base is shrinking. (What does the register say about that?)

Switzerland, Japan and Germany have large per capita trade surpluses and have the highest per capita exports -- significantly higher than the US's.

What's the difference between the US and those countries? Those countries are committed to making quality products at home and treating their workers well in the process.

[Alcibiades]

50. All it means

Is that it's cheaper for Europeans to travel to the US to buy Chinese-made goods than it is for them to buy the same goods exported directly from China to Europe. As far as high-value-added products went in the US-Europe relationship, I had thought that we sent them stuff like minerals and grain and they sent us Champagne and BMW's. Maybe their consumption of Napa wines will go up a little, but I don't think many of them will be buying Lincoln Navigators anytime soon.

[sweetheart]

14. That's one spin on it

It means more expensive european goods on a worldwide stage, because not only is the dollar
dropping, but the euro is appreciating, and as much as the US might flatter its ego to presume
europe makes currency calls based on competetive trade. The appreciating euro, attracts investment
and makes european trade more expensive worldwide, far beyond a relative issue with 1 nation.

[kath]

44. what US goods? seems like not much is manufactured here any more,

unless you count flipping burgers as a "manufacturing" job like the Bushies do.

[Stockholm]

58. Import is not a problem it means cheaper goods from the US

the problem is export, where EU firms exporting to the US previously benefited from a high valued dollar vs. Euro it means that the exporting industry will be squeezed and that´s where many countries make their money, at the same time it means more expensive goods for the US consumer.

Unless you have your currency pegged to the dollar of course, like China...

[ClintonTyree]

63. What cheaper U.S. goods?

Our country doesn't produce anything anymore. We're a service oriented economy. What could we possibly produce that Europeans want to buy? :shrug: War is our biggest export and I don't think the Europeans want to buy much of that.

[fudge stripe cookays]

64. What goods?

The only things we still export are entertainment and war. That's why we're so incredibly fucked this time.

I'm expecting it to become like Germany after WWI. $100 for a loaf of bread anyone?

[Quantess]

127. The only things we still export are entertainment and war.

Sad but true.

[Nederland]

104. Wrong. It's about currency holdings

European governments and corporations own a significant amount of US denominated assets: actual currency, bonds, contracts denominated in dollars, US stocks, etc. When the dollar falls in value, the value of those assets depreciates as well.

[Eurobabe]

105. Yep, right now I am LOVIN that 30% discount! WOOHOO!!

CHARGE IT!!

[no_hypocrisy]

4. Where's the panic? n/t

[Quantess]

17. There's panic at the individual level.

The media is placating this big story.

In other news today......

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. film at 11

you are right, this is not making the news, even though it should lead it

[Quantess]

19. Maybe because it's a slow and steady decline.

News seems to thrive on anything sudden & spectacular.

[Raksha]

124. I just hope it doesn't BECOME "sudden and spectacular,"

but I'm afraid it will. If a big crash hits like in 1929 it will get the media's attention, all right, but it will be too late to do us ordinary folks any good. We'll just have to live through it somehow...or not.

[CK_John]

5. Money at the national and global scale is just a concept. Only

a big game of monopoly where the players agree to play by the rules until the concept changes. Then the biggest or the smartest kid writes a new set of rules and the game goes on.

[NV1962]

6. On second thought: this REALLY should have gone into the "editorials" forum!

Still, K&R

[nashville_brook]

8. dollar in FREE FALL -- why isn't Bernanke freaking out?

more from the article...

Experts have been predicting for some time that the dollar would eventually go into a nosedive, and now that time seems to have come. The US currency has lost five percent of its value against the euro since late October, and 13 percent since the beginning of the year. The euro is currently fluctuating around a value of $1.33, which is only 3 cents away from its all-time high in 2004. And yet Trichet's counterpart Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the US Federal Reserve, has done nothing but look on as the dollar plunges.

A sea change appears to be taking place on the international financial markets. For years, global capital flowed in only one direction, with $2 billion going into the United States every day. Investors viewed the world's largest economy not only as a bastion of stability, but also as a place that promised the best deals, the most lucrative returns and the highest growth rates.

The Americans, for their part, welcomed foreign investment. For them, it was almost a tradition to save very little and spend more than they earned -- essentially achieving affluence on credit. Foreigners financed the Americans' almost obsessive consumer spending, which spurred worldwide economic growth for years.

[moondust]

24. Delete.

[Quantess]

13. Recommended. This affects every American where it counts.

In the wallet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Folks this could trigger way too many things

including war, civil wars and other beauties

Strap in, the ride has just begun

[cascadiance]

16. The problem we have is our low interest rates aren't giving the dollar a good return!

... on investment to those who've put their money in dollars. They can get more money by investing in other currencies given our low interest rates.

The problem is that we rely on our low interest rates to keep our housing market from collapsing. If they go up too much, then our housing market goes flat, and with it all of consumer demand that is SO dependent now on housing appreciation (NOT our salaries going up) to fuel consumption in our marketplace. If we'd raise people's salaries relative to those at the top, we might make up for that and not have the housing market kill our economy as much, but the way we are headed, if the interest rates go to high to stimulate more investment in the dollar, our economy will flatline then. And unfortunately, this president and his crowd doesn't want to see our salaries rise up much above other economic indicators in society now, which is what will doom us soon if we don't correct it. This is all because of this BS trickle down economic theory that just is a plain lie that we've lived with for so long and has built us into this position of vulnerability. Everyone "wants to be a millionaire" and therefore wants to keep the rules to allow good things for millionaires even though 99.9999999% of them will never see much more than what they have now.

[rman]

25. "USD isn't as important as it used to be" - for the rest of the world

No cause for alarm -outside the US-

[BR_Parkway]

26. Can someone explain to me what happens if the $$ collapses?

The import/export stuff makes perfect sense, but I'm trying to understand what happens inside the US. If we can't get imports, don't we have to re-establish our manufacturing base? Wouldn't that put an end to outsourcing? I know that there would be negatives, but the first thoughts that popped into my head were positives.

[MadHound]

28. Across the board hyperinflation, holders calling in our national debt.

Oil and other foreign energy prices go up, foreign investments(which are quite substantial) in American companies will flee back overseas. About the only benefit will be that our exports are going to become increasingly competitive in foreign markets, but given how little thos exports are, it won't do us much good.

[AngryAmish]

79. Our national debt cannot be "called in"

Our debt is held as t-bills - bonds issued by the US gov't. They are payable over time. There is no provision to accelerate payment. Folks give the gov't $$$ (say 1000 dollars). US gov't gives periodic interest payments (pre-agreed to at the time the T-bill is purchased) then when the bond matures the principle is given back to the bondholder. If we do not have the money we can always print more dollars. They can't demand payment in gold or tickle me elmos or anything else. Just dollars. So people holding the US securities are not hoping or trying to injure the US economically.

Why any foreign gov't (read China) that has many US assets would want inflation is baffling. If the dollar inflates they gave us money and we are repaying them with deflated dollars -- by any standard a good deal for the US.

[Yavin4]

120. Dog and Cats Living Together

A little Ghostbusters humor there for you.

[1932]

29. See post 11. Dollar drooped a lot in '03-'04, and US exports declined

and the trade gap increased because the US doesn't make much of anything anymore.

Furthermore, a lot of companies in the US which make money off trademarks and patents have the revenue from those IP rights realized in tax havens and don't bring it back to the US.

Money is not coming back to the US.

This set of circumstances precipitated the decline of just about every one-time major economic empire in the history of the world, including Holland, England and Spain.

What it means is that resources and investments flow to some other country which choses to compete and innovate, leaving the former empire in the dust (and also leaving it with a set of political and economic problems that are very hard to solve.

[Jokinomx]

34. The company that I work for buys all its lumber from Canada...

I mentioned to the owner about the falling American dollar and he stated that it is having an immediate effect on the companies buying power. He stated they have to exchange about a million dollars a month to canadian dollars.... each month it takes more american dollars to buy the same amount of lumber. This is having a direct impact on the profitability of our company.

Our money is becoming worth less and less each passing month. It is only a matter of time before this causes a rise in inflation.

Higher costs have to be passed on to our customers.... and this is just the beginning....

:freak:

[angry_chuck]

90. that is inflation

when more dollars are required to buy the same amount of lumber it is a result of inflation. the fed prints up more dollars, there is still the same amount of lumber. ergo, the lumber costs more. It is taxation without representation. Worse it is facilitated by our representatives. so who do they rep then?

[roamer65]

39. Germany, 1923

That would be the closest analogy. I remember reading about a lady who could not afford wood for her cooking stove, so she burned bundles of 100 million mark notes instead. They were cheaper.

[Target_For_Exterm]

41. Whoa... That's wild.

I'd hate to think that the dollar would get so devalued that I'd be burning bundles of dollars rather than firewood. If that happens, we're toast.

[roamer65]

42. I remember the mini-series Amerika on ABC in the 80's...

They were burning old US currency bundles in the heating stove to keep warm. It was a rather shocking idea to comprehend, but now I can see it happening.

[IDemo]

31. Anyone here with some insight on gold buying?

The "gold bugs" apparently feel the only way to go is physical possession, with coins and/or ingots. A few issues with this are: 1) the cost of transporting or shipping, 2) securing your treasure under the bed or buried in the backyard, and 3) the potential that if a hard crash occurs the government will re-enact a ban on personal gold ownership and confiscate your investment.

What I am more interested in is either gold ETF's (Exchange Traded Funds) or Perth Certificates. With either of these, you are essentially paying someone else to store your gold. Two ETF's (there may be more) are iShares Comex Gold Trust IAU on the American Stock Exchange, and StreetTracks Gold Shares GLD on NYSE.

With Perth Mint Certificates, your gold is held at the Perth Mint in Western Australia, and insured by Lloyd's of London.

[MadHound]

32. If the shit hits the fan, that paper saying you have gold is going to be worth just that

Paper.

If you want to own gold, buy it, pocess it, hold it in your hand. Having a piece of paper saying that you own gold is a sucker's game in my opinion. If you want to play paper games with gold, I would advise you to invest in a mutual fund comprised of gold dealers, who with continue to make money whether or not the market is going up or down. Either way, the dealers make their fees.

But if you want to own gold, do so in real terms, not just on paper. Otherwise you will get burned if the shit hits the fan and you need it.

[IDemo]

33. How does one make a safe gold transaction after TSHTF?

Aren't you openly advertising yourself as a gold owner to your neighbors and the Feds?

[Jokinomx]

35. I mentioned this to my Brother....

and he stated in the U.S. you can't actually buy gold or at least actually possess it. You may hold a piece of paper saying you own it......I don't know if this is correct or not... since I am not an investor... I barely make ends meet from week to week.

I have started a food storage though.... I think as we start having shortages canned goods will be worth more than gold... whattya think?

Good Luck... in your neck of the woods...

:toast:

[EstimatedProphet]

43. Not true

You can buy gold bullion. I'm wishing I still had some.

[notadmblnd]

72. I think so too. Salt sugar coffee.. these could become currencies

to some extent I think. I think bartering will become more popular too.

[sendero]

38. Let me..

... second that emotion.

If you want some gold (and I'd get some silver too, if it were me), get some gold. Not mining stocks, not depository receipts, not anything other than the metal itself.

[fudge stripe cookays]

65. Didn't FDR confiscate the gold during the Depression?

If they do that, you're just as fucked.

[angry_chuck]

92. all central bank backed govs do

we used to have receipt money, dollar is gold receipt.
then fractional money, dollar is fraction of gold receipt.
now fiat money, gold is in the vault of a private company and the gov forces us to accept as legal tender their worthless paper.

the fed loans dollars they make from thin air to the gov and gets interest then loans those liabilities out to people for more interest.

they should use the proper terminology.

the cartel prints dollars, the cartel hoards real wealth, the cartel forces everyone to use worthless fiat money, the cartel precipitates the decline of our society and nation.

[roamer65]

119. Not necessarily on FDR.

A lot of people back then didn't realize you could keep the gold coins if you wanted. All you had to do was claim you were a "collector" keeping them for "numismatic purposes" and you were automatically exempt. That's why so many of the gold coins have survived until today.

[EnviroBat]

70. All I can tell ya...

Is I looked into it, and there's just no way around it, it's a rich mans game. The initial investment, (or the ticket price of admission) was so high, I didn't have the capital to make it worth-wile at the time. Good luck to you in your endeavours...

[nam78_two]

36. K&R.nt

[Pierre.Suave]

45. this is such a good time to...

Move to Germany.

[IDemo]

46. New Zealand or Australia, so I can be close to my gold... n/t

[Pierre.Suave]

47. HA

I want to be close to the Nurburgring.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring

[Hulk]

48. Decline of the empire....

Better get used to it. From a global perspective, the days of the "glorious green back" are over and will continue to drop. I don't like it any more than you do, but we aren't quite the top dogs we have grown up thinking we were. China is the next super economic power, like it or not, and if you check the junk under the Christmas tree you'll see most of it is made there....and we are buying it up right and left.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

49. But the dollar is RISING against the yen

:wtf:

[Hippo_Tron]

60. Means the yen is falling faster

[Yukari Yakumo]

100. Because Japan is currently in a RECESSION that been going on for 16 years. {nt}

uguu

[Jcrowley]

82. Update

Dollar Falls on Concern About Widening U.S. Current-Account Gap

By Agnes Lovasz and Stanley White

Dec. 18 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar fell against the yen on speculation a report today will show the U.S. current-account deficit widened to a record on a flood of imports from China.

The U.S. currency slid on concern the deficit means the country is increasing dollar sales to pay for imports and needs to lure more inflows from abroad to fund the gap. Former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan on Dec. 11 said the U.S. currency may keep falling until the deficit shrinks. The dollar had its biggest drop in a week versus the euro after his remarks.

``One of the factors weakening the dollar is the current account deficit report today, as we see a resumption of the widening,'' said Monica Fan, head of foreign exchange strategy in London at RBC Capital Markets.

The dollar dropped to 117.85 yen at 7:19 a.m. in New York, from 118.17 in New York late Dec. 15. It also traded at $1.3095 against the euro from $1.3080.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aoiTx4zeQfMg&refer=japan

[HappyWeasel]

51. So the picture looks like this-

Our obsolete industries are being liquidated or sent to developing nations. Our purchasing power is collapsing. In whole, we are going broke as America is being cased in. The question then becomes what can we do about it? I say we have to cut spending in all sectors, undo all the tax cuts and start focuses on building NEW industries. I think we should forget about corprate welfare and subsidies and start planning for the future or else we will become isolated.

[NEOBuckeye]

54. Great ideas!

But you have to oust Bush and disband the Greedy Oil People first.

[EnviroBat]

71. Exactly!

Then we can create new industry in the form of alternative/renewable fuel sources. That may once again make us an economic leader. We just need to get rid of these traitors in the Whitehouse first.

[Hippo_Tron]

62. I agree with you

What we are facing is that ultimately we won't be able to afford to import at the pace we are. We'll go back to being isolated and have to produce our own goods and not only that we're going to have to produce for China because they own so much of our money. That's not going to be very good for our standard of living.

I'm all for globalization but many of its proponents don't seem to be concerned about the US staying competative. It's all about how much money they can make today. It's the same people who try to make up science that global warming doesn't exist because they can save a quick buck today and just don't care about what happens in the future.

[chervilant]

102. Globalization

Globalization is a natural progression of our "free market" economy. Corporate megalomaniacs don't see national borders, they see profit optimization strategies euphemistically called outsourcing. I wonder how many of these megalomaniacs believe, as does my sister, that Bush HAS been appointed by God to lead this nation into Armageddon and the Rapture. If they believe this is the inevitable start of the 21st century, there is no 'future' as we know it.

[Hippo_Tron]

111. If they do believe such things...

Then it scares me quite a bit. I was always under the impression that the CEO wing of the Republican party was just greedy, not insane. Perhaps they are both.

[HappyWeasel]

130. **gulp**

Luckily, if the current trends continue there will be a future....but our hold on the situation is tenous and the could-be destroyers of the world could roar back by 2008. If we can keep them from gaining anymore power by 2012, I think we have put a major wrench in their plans. But, if they are back in power by next year, our civilization may not see 2020.

[fudge stripe cookays]

66. The new pending governor of Mass.

is right there on the ball with what I've been thinking. We need to start investing in alternative fuel. Research, development, education programs, etc. We could kill two birds with one stone.

Bring back our industry AND our dwindling employment sector.

[HappyWeasel]

131. This is exactly what we need!

[angry_chuck]

93. great ideas

now tell the multinationals you want to take their home base and all the money and protection it brings to them.

the USA is to Wal-Mart what the Swiss Banks used to be to privacy, a requisite.

I wish the Swiss Banks had crushed Wal-Mart, but alas...

[HappyWeasel]

132. Well...if thats what it takes to get the nation's blood to flow freely again...

[Singular73]

53. You people are on crack

We have a 4-7% unemployment rate, depending on how you work the numbers.

This country, unlike Europe, will bleed its poor to get the economy back into shape, ala Reagan.

Never bet against America when it comes to the economy. You will always lose.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Like 1929

how about 1830

Perhaps 1790 is more to your liking?

And those are the truly scary ones

Then there is 1970s

Yep you made allusions to it, all of the 1980s

And as to the unemployment numbers, they are a bunch of crock, given the number of people NOT counted

[chervilant]

57. hmmmm...

I suspect you've heard the homily "never say never," Singular73. In fact, 'always' is another absolute that may come back around and bite you in the butt.

I'm concerned about your focus on the alleged unemployment rate as a measure of our nation's economic health. Have you considered how many non-working Americans are not counted among these 'unemployed'? Have you considered the numerous hard-working Americans whose salaries have been scaled back, whose pay raises have been diminished or eliminated, whose career goals have been scotched by the downsizing and outsourcing gleefully practiced by the Corporate Megalomaniacs who predominate in today's economy? Have you considered burgeoning health care costs? Have you looked at the current level of credit card indebtedness? Have you noticed how very little people are able to save in today's economy? Gosh, I could come up with a gazillion more questions for you! It's just not as simple as your post seems to suggest.

[petgoat]

89. Never bet against America?

Take a look at this chart of the S&P v. the I-Shares for Japan and Germany
over the last five years.

S&P up 25%
Japan up 82%
Germany up 87%


http://tinyurl.com/ycz7hd

[angry_chuck]

94. american business is not america

make the distinction. corporatism is selling out america not americans.

[chervilant]

55. The Almighty Dollar

Ponder this:

1) Each and every "US" debt discussed in this thread belongs to each and every one of us. For an incredibly long time now, we've trusted our politicians to spend our tax dollars wisely. With much obfuscation, these politicians and their Court Jesters (aka, the Economists) have convinced us that INCREASING debt is an important wealth-building tool for our nation. This is and always has been a lie. Some debt--debt that's reversible within a short period of time and covered by our GDP or natural resources or both--can be a wealth-building tool for our nation. However, we passed the point of no return some time ago. Even Volker (remember him: Chair of the Fed before Greenspan?) has predicted that the US has a 75% likelihood of experiencing a serious economic crisis within the next five years (personally, I think it will happen within the next 18 months). The debt we carry--WE,THE PEOPLE--is a crushing one, and I think we've all known that this level of debt is wrong for quite some time. Ergo, we're about to pay the piper, folks.

2) Gold is a shiny, pretty bauble, but it's inedible. Someone posted above about bartering with canned goods. Well, canned goods are bulky, and difficult to store. However, if things get as bad as is likely, canned goods, bulk grains and legumes, coffee and tea may keep you past the initial crisis. On the other hand, a stockpile could make you vulnerable to attack by those not savvy enough to have done the same. Furthermore, if the transportation infrastructure grinds to a halt, urban areas have only enough food and water to last about six months--which means massive riots are sure to happen. Thus, if we see an economic crisis on the scale that is being predicted, cities could be extremely dangerous. Let's just say, the coming economic crisis will not be dull.

3) We are a global economy now. Consequently, other nations have had a vested interest in helping sustain our debt and our dollar (think on a macro level about how the Iraq war is in part about maintaining the primacy of our currency...). However, other nations only have so many band-aids available to stanch the hemorrhage of our failing economy. Some of these nations are starting to grumble--in part the reason why Bernanke, et. al were in China (and, isn't it rich how the MSM hasn't said boo about this?). Think of the global economy as an elaborate domino maze: once the first stone falls, each follows in quick succession. I fully expect other nations to "pull their stones" precipitously when the crisis begins. The ripples of our economic crisis will have an impact worldwide. Again, it will not be dull.

4) Each time you've heard government officials grouse about our nation's growing credit card debt, consider the hypocrisy inherent in their warnings. Consider that banks have made credit cards readily available, they have encouraged credit card usage, and they've established protocols for enhancing their own profitability even as consumers have amassed credit card debt on a completely unprecedented scale (Suze, you're a sweet lady, but you're like the little Dutch Boy watching a deluge of water rushing OVER the dike). The vast majority of us carry credit card debt blithely and without regard for the long term consequences of such expensive indebtedness, following right in the footsteps of our glorious leaders. This should come as no surprise to anyone. Our imminent economic crisis may motivate banks to freeze assets and revoke credit cards. What would this do to your solvency? What if your 401K simply ceased to exist as it did for so many at Enron? Bear in mind that in the event of bank/S&L failures neither the FDIC nor the FSLIC have sufficient resources to insure deposits (each has less than 10% of the total M1 fund). Bear in mind too that a great many of us are just one paycheck away from a personal financial crisis. Hmmm... what to do, what to do...

I am not a gloom and doom kinda gal, fellow DUers. I'm a fix-it kinda gal. Is an extreme economic crisis inevitable? What do you think? I think it is. And, I think that ALL of us must work together to recover our nation from what's been happening, especially during Bushco's tenure. We can no longer deny that all of us share responsibility for where we are as a nation. Is this the wake-up call our nation needs? I strongly encourage each of you to consider ways we can start our recovery now. Please, before it's too late.

[markam]

73. urban areas have only enough food and water to last about six months

Try about 3 days on the food thing. If food and fuel stop going into urban areas, there would be widespread looting and fighting within 3-4 days. After 6 months, at least 75% of the population would be dead.

[angry_chuck]

96. i know

get the f8ck out, find where bush put all our gold, take it (leave him there with no gold in paraguay) and his weapons, return to America with the gold and have a new constitutional convention where we all sing kumbaya while we roast marshmallows over burning piles of IRS publications, joyously celebrating the new utopian america our founding fathers envisioned. yeah. take 'em down

[comtec]

59. Doom and gloom movies of the 80's and now for something completely different.

Bear with me this does have a relevant point.

As I recall ALL the dark future movies were dreamed up and produced under... hmm who was president.. oh yeah.. Reagan. Reaganomics. People understood way back then that this was a disaster that would destroy our country if allowed to happen. You might notice in the golden 90's, the movies were not about our economy collapsing, being invade by Russians, being blown to bit by our allies, but fantasy.

If you look at movies in the last few years, you see the same kind of thing as in the 80's. Less pronounced because the MSM industry is owned by friends of * and pappy, as opposed to being more independent.

* once joked that he has been good for the book industry. As much as the Reich hates(ed) Clinton, they never published a quarter of the books against him, that has been published about * and his disaster of a plan for the US. The town crier has lost his/her voice from screaming. But in the silence, people are finally noticing something is wrong. That silence is the ever increasing lack of work.

I live in The Netherlands with my wife. Long story short I left because I'm in IT, and there was no work for me in Silicon valley, and she has a very stable business. After nearly 3 years, I'm done with the citizen indoctrination process, and looking for work. There is more work for me here than there was in California. Granted it'll be 3 years in April, and the market has come back somewhat, but OMFG the cost of living now!

When I left gas was $1.35, you could buy a week's worth of food for one person for under $10 dollars - that's decent meals not PBnJ - and I could afford Jack in the Box or Wendy's once in a while.

I visited my old home in October. I am mortified at the change. Prices are through the roof, imho, relatively speaking. Putting the price of fuel for a moment, the 3 years I have gone have seen crazy inflation. Things cost more than 3 years should have raised them. The quality of things is also down, at least the affordable items.

When I go back to work I will be earning Euros. The tax rate here is completely insane. Totally off the rocker. BUT... life is still manageable. The reason being most of what I buy at the store is made HERE, IN HOLLAND! Things that aren't are generally made elsewhere IN THE EU!

When I buy something, even tech stuff, I can be fairly confident it was made, grown, designed, etc, here in Europe. That money is going back into the system. It's not leaving the economy. We have a store here which is selling Chinese Garlic. I refuse to buy it. I want Garlic grown IN the EU. I believe in supporting OUR economy.

The states desperately needs to reclaim it's industrial past. We need to stop buying, and start making and selling. We always forget, that the US can cut off the rest of the world (figuratively) and run just fine thank you. There is literally no resource that we need, that we do not have access to. Oil in Alaska (don't get me started on that) and Texas, and other places. We have all the steel we'll ever need. We have aluminum, Uranium, etc. EVERYTHING is withing OUR borders, and we should be keeping it, and using it to make our own goods!

Well I see I have run on far too long a post, So I will stop now. Point being They were right in Hollywood, if we don't stop these mad men, our country is truly and well FUCKED!

[Hippo_Tron]

61. A falling dollar isn't always a bad thing, it depends on how much

Politicians of both parties like to claim that a strong US dollar is a good thing because claiming that we want a weak dollar doesn't sound good. In fact it sounds downright un-American.

But a cheaper dollar will help balance out the trade deficit which means that China and other countries won't be holding as much of our debt in the future. The flip side is that we simply won't be able to buy as many imports and probably less of US made goods considering that they will be in higher demand overseas and thus their prices will go up.

Considering our trade deficit, a dollar that's falling a bit certainly will certainly benfit us in the future. On the other hand, it will cost us in the short run and thus it's probably good for it not to fall too much.

[Javaman]

74. We import 65% of our oil. over 50% of our trade deficit is due to

oil imports. We could seriously fix our trade deficit if we reduced the amount of oil we get from over seas. Having china revalue it's yen or whatever else will only be a temporary solution. Until our need for oil is dealt with, we will always run a huge trade deficit. No way around it.

[ama]

75. prices

will the price of oil rise as America imports it?

[Hippo_Tron]

110. Yes

Since our currency is worth less we will need more of it to buy imported oil.

[Donkeykick]

78. Don't Worry.

Our good buddy Dubya is on this like a flea on a dog that has been cleaned and sprayed. :sarcasm: :eyes:

Just give the rich more tax cuts, so that they can sprreeead the money out and stimmmmulate the economy. (yet even more) :sarcasm: :eyes:

[On the Road]

80. "Precipitous Decline" is a Bit of an Exaggeration

A euro worth $1.33 is not that far out of trend and is completely justified.

What is frightening is the prospect of a run on the US dollar similar to what happenned in the 90s with South Korea, Indonesia, and Argentina currencies. The dollar may be too big a currency to get wiped out like those did, but it will be painful for a lot of people and could easily trigger a recession.

I do feel much better with Paulsen in charge than with John Snow (who just joined the board of my employer -- ugh).

[Jcrowley]

81. One thing

to keep it mind is how The Fed has been pumping record amounts of M-3 into the money supply to artificially prop up the house of cards.

What you see isn't always what you get.

[On the Road]

83. What Would Worry Me More

is if the Fed were not doing something like this. Previous crashes and recession were lengthened and sometimes caused by the insufficient money. A more accommodating monetary policy was a long-standing progressive issue, and was argued for in William Greider's history of the Fed "Secrets of the Temple."

It doesn't fix the underlying cause of financial irresponsibility, but the Feb Chairman can't legislate.

[Jcrowley]

85. We'll see how it goes

On November 10th, 2005, shortly after appointing Bernanke to replace Greenbackspan, the Fed mysteriously announced with little comment and no palatable justification that they will hide M-3 effective March 2006. M-3 has been the main staple of money supply measurement and transparent disclosure since the Fed was founded back in 1913. It is the key monetary aggregate that includes Fed Repo transactions, that mechanism whereby the Fed increases reserves. The date when M-3 will start being hidden also happens to be the exact month that Iran will declare economic war against the U.S. Dollar by trading its oil in Petro-Euros on its new bourse. But there is more. The Federal Reserve currently has three vacancies within the 19 top Regional Bank and Board of Governor spots. Why? Part of ongoing wholesale resignations.

<snip>

So what about M-3 the past week? The latest figures show that on a seasonally adjusted basis, M-3 rose 27.3 billion last week, a 14.0 percent annualized clip, and is up $76 billion over the past month, a 9.8 percent growth rate. But those are the massaged numbers. For the raw figures, fasten your seat belt. Are you ready? M-3 was increased $58.7 billion last week (that does not include the huge Repo infusions noted above), a 30.0 percent annualized rate of growth. For the past two week, the Fed added $93.5 billion to the money supply, a 24.0 percent annual clip. Over the past 6 weeks it is up $192.9 billion, a 16.7 percent Banana Republic hyperinflationary pace. This is nuts, folks - unless there is an incredible risk out there we are not being told about. That is a lot of money for the Plunge Protection Team's arsenal to buy markets - stocks, bonds, currencies, whatever. This level of irresponsible money supply growth makes shorting markets hazardous, yet at the same time says markets are at huge risk of declining. Maybe M-3 growth doesn't stop the decline this time. Should be a fascinating storm in 2006.

http://www.safehaven.com/article-4331.htm

[On the Road]

91. That is a Huge Increase

and probably too much for the long term.

I had always heard M2 as the bellweather monetary statistic. Checking on Wikipedia, the only items included in M3 are CDs over $100,000, deposits of eurodollars and repurchase agreements. AFAIK, the numbers normally mirror each other pretty closely.

[Jcrowley]

99. Get a load of this

THE UNITED STATES IS INSOLVENT
by Dr. Chris Martenson
The End of Money
December 17, 2006


Prepare to be shocked.

The US is insolvent. There is simply no way for our national bills to be paid under current levels of taxation and promised benefits. Our federal deficits alone now total more than 400% of GDP.

That is the conclusion of a recent Treasury/OMB report entitled Financial Report of the United States Government that was quietly slipped out on a Friday (12/15/06), deep in the holiday season, with little fanfare. Sometimes I wonder why the Treasury Department doesn’t just pay somebody to come in at 4:30 am Christmas morning to release the report. Additionally, I’ve yet to read a single account of this report in any of the major news media outlets but that is another matter.

But, hey, I understand. A report is this bad requires all the muffling it can get.

In his accompanying statement to the report, David Walker, Comptroller of the US, warmed up his audience by stating that the GAO had found so many significant material deficiencies in the government’s accounting systems that the GAO was “unable to express an opinion” on the financial statements. Ha ha! He really knows how to play an audience!

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/martenson/2006/1217.html

In the report on pdf file which I do not know how to send a link you'll find more. You can obtain it through the above story.

Despite improvement in both the fiscal year 2006 reported net operating cost and the cash-based budget deficit, the U.S. government’s total reported liabilities, net social insurance commitments, and other fiscal exposures continue to grow and now total approximately $50 trillion, representing approximately four times the Nation’s total output (GDP) in fiscal year 2006, up from about $20 trillion, or two times GDP in fiscal year 2000.

Here's a link to study:
http://www.fms.treas.gov/fr/

And this:

Report: Federal deficit would be higher
MARTIN CRUTSINGER
Associated Press

WASHINGTON - The federal deficit for 2006 would have been 81 percent higher than the $247.7 billion that was reported two months ago if the government had to use the same accounting methods as private companies.

That was the finding Friday when the administration released a 166-page "Financial Report of the United States Government" for the 2006 budget year that ended on Sept. 30.

The report, released by the Treasury Department and the president's Office of Management and Budget, found that under the accrual method of accounting, the deficit for 2006 would have totaled $449.5 billion, not the widely reported $247.7 billion incurred under the cash system of accounting.

Under the accrual method, expenses are recorded when they are incurred rather than when they are paid. That tends to raise costs for liabilities such as pensions and health insurance.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/financial_markets/16250846.htm

[redqueen]

109. How can so many ignore these things?

*shakes head sadly*

[hfojvt]

101. 16.7% is hardly hyper-inflation

we had comparable inflation rates in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. Per year not per month

16.7% per month ain't fun,trust me on that one.

And in some cases it reached 100+% per anum

[hfojvt]

113. the article says "annual rate"

"$93.5 billion to the money supply, a 24.0 percent annual clip. Over the past 6 weeks it is up $192.9 billion, a 16.7 percent Banana Republic hyperinflationary pace."

What reached 100+% per annum? The inflation rate? Or the rate of increase in the money supply?

[On the Road]

114. The Money Supply Grew 16.7%

That large an increase would seem to be unwarranted -- I have to think that the Fed is covering for the fiscal deficit. But I don't necessarily blame the Fed -- it might be necessary.

It might be more responsible for the Fed to simply increase the money supply by a small steady amount each year, like 3%. That's pure Milton Friedman monetarism -- I wouldn't have thought he had a lot of fans on DU.

[roamer65]

118. Yup, the Fed is massively debt monetizing right now.

They tried to kill off M3 money reporting to hide it, but several smart individuals know how to calculate M3 from existing data. Sounds like the debt monetiztion is being funneled thru Canada and the UK.

[On the Road]

122. So What Part of M3 is Being Concealed?

Probably not CDs over $100k. Is it the eurodollars? The repos? Those are the only other options to my knowledge. I've been a little skeptical over the claims that disconinuing M3 is being done to hide something, but it cetainly possible within limits.

[roamer65]

126. Eurodollar reporting has ceased completely...

from what I have read. Those who are recreating M3 now have to make approximations on Eurodollar holdings. Since Eurodollar reporting has stopped, the amount of T-bill purchases from Canada and UK have increased significantly. I suspect the Fed is using British and Canadian banks as the "conduit".

[Nederland]

123. M-3 isn't the number to look at

If it was, you'd see inflation numbers a lot higher than they are. The bottom line is this: if inflation rates continue to be where they are, the Fed is doing its job and increasing the monetary supply at a reasonable rate. If inflation starts to push into double digits THEN you can start talking about how the Fed is dumping too much money into the economy. Until then, it's pretty obvious that you are looking at the numbers in the wrong way.

[chervilant]

129. Well?

Then, what is the "right way" to look at the numbers? When does the "magic" of simply creating more paper money fail to cover the massive, crushing debts our nation has accrued?

I think that this house of cards we call the "global economy" exists almost solely on the good faith of the vast majority of its players. All it may take is one skeptic to pull a key card and the whole thing collapses. I think the skeptics are accruing, milling about, and seeking a way to exit the game with their "deck" intact. What say you?

[Nederland]

134. Exactly what I said

The correct way to look at the numbers is to look at the rate of inflation. If inflation stays low, you simply cannot say that the money supply is being expanded too fast.

[Jcrowley]

135. Inflation roars back with 2 percent wholesale price jump

Inflation roars back with 2 percent wholesale price jump
Dec 19 10:01 AM US/Eastern


US inflation made a surprise comeback in November with a surprising 2.0 percent rise in wholesale prices, the biggest monthly jump in 30 years, the government has reported.

The Labor Department's producer price index (PPI) was far ahead of Wall Street expectations of a 0.5 percent rise and showed strong increases in a wide range of goods.

The core index, which excludes volatile food and energy prices, was up 1.3 percent -- the largest increase in more than 25 years -- against expectations of a 0.2 percent rise.

The surprise jump in prices challenges expectations from economists and the Federal Reserve that inflation is under control.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/19/061219150056.i0vmpzp9.html

[nolabels]

136. What's that you say, 'not cookin the books that much anymore'

After all these years what could possibly bring people to a point of speaking truth. Just because a person works around things all day doesn't indicate one should acknowledge it.

Inflation has been raging for years through most economic sectors, it's just been hidden in a different nomenclature known as increased corporate profit.

[Jcrowley]

137. Million different ways to hide

the reality of the dysfunctional economy but you can't hide it from the people on the streets. Folks are hurting no matter what Wall Street says.

Inflation has been raging for years through most economic sectors, it's just been hidden in a different nomenclature known as increased corporate profit.

Yep.

[Nederland]

138. Read the whole thing

<snip>

"The November increases in producer prices should not be viewed with alarm, because of past monthly declines," said Peter Morici, economist at the University of Maryland.

"Over the last year, producer prices, including food and energy, have risen only 0.9 percent, and consumer price inflation is likely to moderate through the early months of 2007."

Because the PPI fell 1.6 percent in October, some said the latest report simply smoothes out the bumps.

<snip>

So you see, while the PPI rose 2.0 percent in November, that rise follows a 1.6 drop in October. Paints a rather different scene when you look a the whole picture, doesn't it?

[angry_chuck]

97. inflation station

what could be worse than 'working' with snow? his name is all over the dollars put into circulation the last few years, which is sadly a large number. It's almost like he wrote his name in your underwear. that bastard.

[On the Road]

115. As Far as Working with Snow,

his presence should be pretty much invisible outside of the organization announcement. He's not only many levels above me, but as an outside director probably just trucks in to HQ four times a year for board meetings.

The one positive thing about his being there is that the board's main function is to determine when the chief executive should leave. Snow does not seem to be the kind of person who has any trouble cutting people off at the knees.

[NotGivingUp]

107. tried to recommend...it was too late...and looks like too late for us, too.