I have been surfing the channels for Cindy this morning and have not

[stop the bleeding]

seen her. Any luck for you all??

[jbnow]

1. Same here

Haven't even heard anyone say she was coming up.

That's a shame, I'd like America to hear her speak about it.

[EFerrari]

2. I think some people got calls about this from the Weasel's office.

It would be surprising if they gave her air time.

[mikelewis]

3. You probably won't either....

It's best to sweep that shame under the rug.

[Jeanette in FL]

4. MSM must have gotten their orders from WH

to down play the story. This has backfired on the WH, now that the story has been shown that she was arrested for wearing a t-shirt and not unfurling a banner.

[KharmaTrain]

5. Good...Time To Move On

Sorry, I used to think the world of Cindy, but not when she hands the wingnuts more junk to lie and distort and use her as the focus rather than the war. When Cindy was a grieving mother...something we could all understand...and she had a simple question "why"...one we could all relate to. I had hoped that she would be the catalyst to get many people/groups together and other Cindys would be stepping forward...just like the mothers who stepped up during Vietnam.

I didn't bother to watch the SOTU (plenty of recap out here...and there wasn't anything said that was worth listening to...I've heard enough lies) or the RNC spinmasters that dominated corporate media following...thus I only read about Cindy on here and haven't seen/heard of anything anywhere else.

The problem is confusing symbolism with causes. Cindy was a symbol...her cause were young people dying in Iraq. Unfortunatly now Cindy feels she's a cause...be it opining on topics outside of her own experiences or being used to promote someone elses cause/agenda. It's a shame, since I want to support the cause...and sent over $500 to Crawford House last summer to show my support. However, now there needs to be more than Cindy.

I was hoping by now I'd be reading, hearing, seeing large protest marches...thousands taking to the streets or plans for a big rally in Washington...real activism...taking our numbers to the streets where the corporate media and this regime can't hide us or dismiss us. I was hoping to see people coming together at this time instead of finding more faults within the Democratic party than anything the Repugnicans do. Instead of fighting causes, it's all symbols and window dressing. The corporate media will jump all over this about the image, not the substance and the message Cindy originally asked gets further lost in personality and ego.

Peace...

[EFerrari]

7. That's what they said about MLK when he began opposing

the Viet Nam aggression in public.

I have seen no evidence that Cindy Sheehan is being manipulated by anyone. I do see the collision course between a political party and the antiwar movement. That's what is really going on here and it's too bad but I suppose that's reality.

Cindy is still asking the same inconvenient question and I hope she continues to be an inconvenient woman, a thorn in the side of both BushCo and their collaborators.

[GemMom]

14. Cindy? Manipulation?

How are Cindy's travels all over the world and this country being funded? She's not doing this without being funded by someone else, and that comes off, in some respects, as Cindy being seen as a puppet of others with much bigger purse strings. A manipulation, of sorts, if you will.

[EFerrari]

18. Do you know how they are being funded or are you

simply spreading a rumor" :)

[Bridget Burke]

19. Spreading the rumor in two threads, so far.

Cut & paste, in fact.

[KharmaTrain]

17. Apples And Oranges, Pat

MLK rose to prominance before Vietnam and really spoke out very little about that war. His cause, and the one he stayed true to was civil rights. I don't recall him ever being part of an anti-war protest...in fact he was very careful on how he dealt with the issue since Johnson was working with him on the Civil Rights Act and other legislation and pissing off LBJ would have hurt his other causes.

Now, I saw Cindy as a Rosa Parks...the first person who refused to go to the back of the bus. However Rosa was just a start...we never knew her opinions about Vietnam or any other topic as others stepped forward, not only to support her, but to advance the cause further. From Rosa came King and then Thurgood Marshall and an organized movement that made a difference. I don't see the same things happening now.

As a parent of an 18-year-old son...and one who missed the Vietnam draft by one year, I don't need to be sold either on the horror of war or the illegality of this one. I've been as disappointed as anyone about how inept the Democrats have been in standing up to the onslaught of our liberties. However, right now we're in a pickle and there are few ways out...few bullets to fire and few allies to count on. I don't see how Cindy's advanced the anti-war cause over the last year and by speaking on issues other than the war or trying to gain publicity (and yes, this was gaining publicity...Cindy wanted to be noticed/tossed out) it focuses attention on her, not the cause.

I wish Cindy was still asking that question she did when she first camped out in Crawford last June. It was being very effective when the manchild hid inside and couldn't answer the "why". I haven't heard her or anyone else ask that question since. Instead we're now being spun that not only is sending our kids to die in a war for profit all well and good, but we should be grateful this regime is spying on us to "keep us safe". As usual, when there's a chance to put this regime on the spot, they find a way to slink away...and use distractions like Cindy's to further distort the issue.

I don't want one Cindy, I want 1,000 Cindys...a million thorns in the sides of this regime and keeping the pressure on this regime to answer the simple questions they refuse to...to be accountable. Kabuki theater is what they have perfected, the only advantage that has is a quick "feel good" but it doesn't advance the cause...it doesn't bring the end of this war one day closer...and, Pat, that's my primary focus...and at least I won't rest until that happens.

Peace...

[Cults4Bush]

21. So go be a Cindy! That is exactly what she has been asking for.

You need to go and do more, give up everything to end this war like she has. She would love that and so would you. She is still asking the question, she has rallied support all over Europe and South America.

Are you sure you dont have soem sour grapes because she criticizes Dems? I've noticed a few other posters who are yellow dog blind faithing Dems say a some negative things since last night and their posts came off quite the same as yours.

The point is however that if you dont like Cindy or the way she is doing something, go out and do it better.. complain all you want but at least back it up with the actions to make it happen.

[KharmaTrain]

30. No Sour Grapes Here...Just Oberservations

First, I feel sending lots of money to various Progressive groups and causes that pay their bills, keep the websites going and showing a tangible support for their activities. And if I knew there was a massive demonstration taking place in Washington this Spring (as I was hoping there would be) I would be there. I was advocating such a thing two years ago on here...or probably longer. I was all set to hop a plane to Crawford and had reservations all set in Washington but ran into a lot of petty squabbling that turned me and a lot of other people off on participating (Code Pink) in further demonstrations. I wanted to march against the war...not 15 other causes.

I consider myself very Independent...I have no national candidate or group I affiliate with or support. All my work is local and individual...making a difference one person at a time. The sour grapes I have is the frustration of seeing the many great causes Democrats and Progressives stand for get muddled in petty squabbles within the party and the overall assault on our values by a Repugnican/corporate media machine that picks on our squabbles and magnifies them.

Sorry, at 50, my Don Quixote days are past. I learned and succeded in my life and business by heeding the advice of knowing when to fight and how to fight smart. To take the time to study the adversary more than they study you and be prepared for any and all situations...never to put blinders on. Foremost is to be critical of myself as much, if not more, than others to ensure that what I believe is right and the moves I make are effective. I'm just using that same standard here.

I've been more than ready to join in a popular mass demonstration...to continue to help finance and work with people who have the energy and resources to make differences. Maybe your message should be directed at others here who are ready to form third parties or jump off bridges or eat Joe Liebermann. ROFl...

Peace...

[iamthebandfanman]

33. well

i think some of us are just getting anxious about regaining power around here
and i think thats rightfully so
its been along time

i think people are afraid to upset to many people outa fear of democrats not getting elected. now that may or may not be true and you could argue that frankly u dont want a 'republican-lite' ...which is also a very valid thing... but... on the same hand...
if its sticking to hardcore fundamental beliefs and always remaining a minority with absolutely NO say in anything that ever happens or getting a 'republican-lite' into office...i hafta pick the latter... and ill tell u why...

because frankly people from our party will listen to us if they are in power.
i mean, face it folks, anything has got to be better than what is going on in this country right now.
i dont care if somebodys name is pubey the whacky republican as long as they are a democrat and actually listen to my ideas and run with them.
the way things are now, you cant even get ur idea out there without being put down and shoved to the side.

we HAVE to take power back THEN we can be more picky.
thats just my personal opinion on it, and i wish i didnt think it was so..god knows id love to see the country make a hard LEFT. lol.

if anything
i say we(democrats) just get leftys and progressive to pretend to b centrist until they get into office.
i mean hell, shrub claimed he was a conservative and we all know thats not REALLY true. I mean his pysical reponsibility is non-exsistant. he lied to get into office, and it worked. apparently americans like to live in a pretend world, so maybe we should give them a lil of it too.

i hate to sound like im compromising beliefs for power, but perhaps sometimes you have to. maybe thats just the cruel reality of politics. I dunno.
please dont scream or bash me for saying what i say
just constructive critism is needed ;)

i definitely wanna hear opinions, just please dont attack me!
im small and defenseless!

[KharmaTrain]

36. No Attack...I Appreciate Dialogue

Here's the Catch 22...we're both frustrated as events are occuring that we have little to no say nor representation about. There's an entrenched, corrupt kleptocracy that has shut us out of the process and that has manifested in deeper and deeper anger as more and more doors have been shut.

Also, undo pressure/expectations are placed on people to act or think in a specific way without looking at the realities of their situation. Yes, sometimes its political, other times its pragmatic. If I'm a Senator from a state where a majority supports confirming Alito, I can't dismiss those voices to satisfy the howls of those who live safely inside blue districts that can be a lot more discriminating and idelogical. Fortunately I sense Dr. Dean understands this and is attempting to look at the party as a 50 state operation, not a Washington based home office. This is long overdue party building. I was very critical of Terry McAuliffe cause I saw how much he neglected the local level and how this was a major factor in losing elections that meant losing power which meant losing any say or influence on events. It's forced Democrats who would be easily "whipped" into line if there was a Democratic majority to play both sides of the fence, pander and become a "DINO". It's something I don't think many think about here and should take into consideration before they attack other Democrats or are quick to judge a vote or action. I only wish life were so simple that mountains could be moved so easily and quickly. Reality is we are in a very deep hole and there's no one leading the way out.

The way I see it is crawl, walk, run, fly. You can't expect to have your voice heard or your principals respected without some form of power. Human nature will play a part in that where peoples views and needs in respect to that power will dictate how they act and react in tight situations. We're seeing that now with the weaker members of the party...but to isolate them and attempt to "rebuild a party" at this stage just opens the door to electing more Repugnicans and emboldening them even further. It's the sad reality and the sooner people take blinders off and stop holding pity parties, then maybe changes will happen.

I remain cautiously hopefull, but eternally cynical.

Cheers and thanks for participating!

[iamthebandfanman]

37. thank you

thank you for being civil towards me.

i think people dont understand exactly whats going on...this isnt so much a republican versus democrat thing n my eyes...
to me its more a democrats against a small group of fanatical people who will do whatever they want to better themselves and their bests friends.
i mean honestly , the only reason they cater to their base so much is to stay in power so they can do whatever they want.

i mean it even sounds crazy in my head to hear myself think about sacrificing some beliefs to win, but something has to be done.
i cant take this anymore.
we get absolutely NO say in ANYTHING and im tired of it.
i guess some people mite see me as being pessimistic, but i think im just being real about this issue, as are you.
sometimes sacrifices hafta be made for the greater good, and i dont think we should forget that.
im not saying abandon your beliefs, rather, hold some of them back until you can actually envoke that change.
we are demanding alot and have no power. we are setting ourselves up for a let down it seems.

i just want to see moral boosted and get these lying dirty bastards out of office.
i dont care who replaces them at this point, so long as it isnt anyone that has anything to do with the current people who are there.

i mean honestly... Worst President Ever doesnt even BEGIN to describe this administration. Something has to be done, and it has to be done swiftly.

I feel very good about the upcoming elections.
I just found out our retired rep is coming out of retirement to run again. even tho hes kinda conservative , ive already heard him say things like 'absolute power corrupts absolutely' so he shows that he knows whats going on, and thats what matters to me.

lets take the houses back guys and have a field day.
im ready to celebrate for once!

thanks again

[EFerrari]

38. That's what I meant by a collision between a political party

and the antiwar movement. :)

[madokie]

10. I see it as when Cindy does something it gives a chance for

the sheeple to see bushco* for what they are. By smearing Cindy we get exposure.

[KharmaTrain]

12. The Wrong Type

Millions will turn on O'Reilly or Tweety and not have the background on Cindy you or I do. All they've seen are the hit and run pieces that have been done on her. All they've heard are her statements that are pulled out of context and twisted.

People DO see this regime for what they are. Some are very content with things being the way they are and others don't give a damn as long as they can sit on the couch, turn on the football game and knock down a six pack. All their view of the world are the snippets that they see or hear on hate radio or from the office dittohead.

The exposure Democrats need right now is not one person wearing a T-Shirt but thousands of us hitting the streets, working on campaigns, developing strategies to win House seats and focusing on not only reining in the Repugnicans this fall, but in the process send a message within the Democratic party...through our numbers, work and effectiveness...that the Progressive/Liberal agenda has a big place at the table.

I want exposure about substance, not symbols...

Peace...

[madokie]

22. The one's tuning into o'liely aren't going to be reached anyway

you have to remember that the majority of the people alive today are of the Vietnam era or are their children.
What do you remember about 'tianaminan' square, most likely the student and the tank. Or of the fall of Russia, drunk ole Boris on the tank. Yes we need symbols.

me thinks.
spelling

[KharmaTrain]

24. That I Know All Too Well...

Tien Amien Square wasn't just one person standing up to a tank...it was millions in that square that forced the government to call in those tanks.

The Russian demonstration wasn't Boris doing a photo-op...it was in response to a foiled government coup and, again, millions were in the streets.

And look at the results of the above...mixed. China is more repressive today than it was then and 2 years after Yeltsin climbed on that tank he turned it around and blasted his own White House. Yes, images and symbols can be misleading.

As one from "that era"...I can see how mixed up people's history on that time is...including some who were alive at the time. There was symbolism, but there also was action. We wore POW/MIA bracelets and Peace symbols, but we also had a counter culture that was a conduit of information and unity that I see forming on the internet, but is still a long way from having the effectiveness some out here think it has.

I kinda view this country as stuck in 1966/67 right now. There's a strong anti-war undercurrent, but it's limited to the fringes of the cultural dynamic. I was hoping we wouldn't have to relive 1968 and the long pains that followed that year, but I suspect we've entered a time warp.

Peace...

[madokie]

26. The symbols of the two examples is what I see when I think

of these, and yes their were millions but the memory of these incidences is of the symbols. You need symbols as much as you need a cause.

[G_j]

15. in all respect

You had been hoping for stories of huge demonstrations, YET you stayed home as did I. There were however many smaller demos and rallies across the country, which were probably not reported on either.
But there is a tradition of symbolic actions and civil disobedience in America that has been the one avenue left open to committed activists when all else was ignored. Martin Luther King Jr., the Berrigan brothers, the nuns in Swords To Plowshares and so many others.
Their actions may have been a shout in the wilderness, but that is a whole lot more than silence. I find it sad that people begrudge those who step forward risking arrest and even bodily harm to at least try.

[KharmaTrain]

20. I Didn't Stay Home

I participated in several protests in the Chicago area and saw diminishing numbers in each "meet-up". I also am very involved in the local Democratic party in a predominately Repugnican suburban area where we've been changing things one door at a time, one phone call at a time almost non-stop since 2001. While there are more involved now than there were a couple years ago, I still see a lot of people sitting on their hands or willing to pick fights in our own tent rather than focus on the bigger issues and enemies. Dare I say there are people here who would attack a fellow Democrat before a Repugnican due to mis-directed anger and frustration...the Alito situation is a great case in point.

Civil Disobedience is a very powerful weapon when it's used by millions, not by a few. The anti-war movement during Vietnam didn't happen until being against the war became a "cool" thing...a cause that was not only one people could relate to and feel comfortable in supporting, but felt invited to particpate in. It transformed popular culture in the music we heard, the clothes we wore, the language we spoke. That's not going on today.

Yes, in all respect, this is a time to take a step back and see where things are. Last summer I was ready to cut short a trip to the West Coast and head to Crawford...and then made plans to go to Washington in August, but I won't go into what I encountered.

Hell, what do people care what I think...and that's fine. I enjoy this place for some give and take...to engage in discussion in a discussion board. Some here find that concept a little confusing at times.

Peace...

[madokie]

25. That is what this is all about, to share Idea's, pro and con

leaving the personalities out of it. Good old discussion. To make a well informed decision we have to see things from all sides. I remember when I was but a kid working on my Cushman Scooter with my dad sitting out with me discussing first one thing then the other, him just waiting for me to ask how or what, occassionally saying something like maybe if you look at it from this side maybe you'll see how to do it. There were a lot of lessions there beside's just mechanics.
Keep up the good work.

[G_j]

29. sorry if I misread your post or

read something into it that wasn't there.
I thank you for your involvement. I have also been 'out there' protesting at various times but not last night.
I have been to DC to protest wars since Vietnam.
Protesting the first Gulf war was even more frustrating and frightening.
It was not a very popular movement and we were often physically threatened.

We differ on our view of Cindy's action, that is fine.
I also had the empty 'hope' that at lest one Democrat would offer some sort of notable protest in the hall.
On the same day that the SCOTUS was pushed to the right and women's and minority rights took a back seat to politics, I was happy to see ONE person in the hall registering protest, and that was quite civilized and mild, a simple shirt showing the number of American deaths in an illegal war.

thank you for your involvement in this 'struggle'.

and peace

[KharmaTrain]

32. Disagreements Are Good Things...They Make You Think

I'm not smart enough to know everything...and I'm far from being right when it comes to judging how many lies people will accept just to go-along, get-along. But I do feel I have a pretty good sense of what is politically right and wrong and feel as convinced in my beliefs today as I did 30 years ago. Now that might not be what other people believe and the interchange in those differences is what makes one smarter and wiser...or so I like to think.

The SOTU is a dog and pony show...a waste of time that should only provide us with ammunition against this regime. Just like how Joe Wilson found the lie in the 2003 speech, we should be focusing on the many whoppers that were let loose last night (Think Progress has a good collection of them) and not be focusing on Cindy Sheehan or how Democrats "laughed" at boooosh. Who cares...move on, there's a lot on the agenda and time to move along. The Repugnicans sure aren't gonna wait for us to catch up.

The most important protest we need is one at the ballot box in November. It's winning control of the House and starting to change the political dynamic first in Washington...then in time within the Democratic party.

Maybe I'm tired of symbols. They're fine in creating an esprit de corp here, but as it's shown little effectiveness in bringing this regime down a notch or two. I'd like to see all the energy here channeled into smarter purposes...and to look at and get involved in the "sausage" that is politics. It's not glorious, but it's so necessary.

Thank you for your involvement as well. Introspection makes one not only stronger, but more capable of persevering.

Cheers...

[G_j]

35. this conversation has prompted me to make an observation

on my own reaction to Cindy's protest and I think it may hold true for some others as well.
One of the reasons I really appreciate Cindy's action last night is that it gave me something to cheer amid all the disheartening hypocrisy and duplicity. Sometimes these things also serve to lift the spirits of the dispirited.

[H2O Man]

31. I think that you raise

some interesting and very valid points. Cindy has suffered a loss that puts her in a position that I respect, and I am not willing to find fault with things that she has done that I may not agree with. It's her choice. But I do think that she might need some people around her that can give her better advice on how to best bring her message home to the American public. It would be hard to say that her influence is the same today as it was in the summer months. Clearly, circumstances change, and so her approach has to change to master those circumstances. It would be unrealistic to think that an average mother -- and that was her greatest strength -- would be able to navigate the most effective path on her own. I think that those around her have missed the mark.

[medeak]

6. CNN giving lots of attention

reading her blog... good comments made.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. I've been watching the ABC morning show for an hour,

and not one fucking word. Lots of SOTU bullshit fawning, but not one word about Cindy.

[SSX]

9. supposed to be on ABCs GMA this am. n/t

[SSX]

11. oops. may be tomorrow. n/t

[dogday]

13. You really think that they want this made public?

The shirt was not all that political. If the president seeks wars with other countries, he must learn to take the death toll. He must be made to understand the price of bringing his so called democracy to other countries. If he can't face the death tolls, get out of the war....

[LizW]

16. I saw her on local news!

Amazing in this red state.

[mattclearing]

23. She's big local news in DC, and they mentioned it on the Today Show. nt

[H2O Man]

27. I've seen coverage

on both MSNBC and CNN. Both gave her fair coverage, much more so than I expected.

[stop the bleeding]

28. cool I must have missed it - had to leave for work at 7:40 am EST

I love how she unintentionally stole *'s thunder - very cool

[Spazito]

34. CNN had Jonathan Turley on talking about this

It was very good, the question of whether she broke any law or, indeed, even protocol was raised. It seems the dress code is written to address those from Congress who attend as opposed to everyone including those in the gallery.