'08 poll: including new entrant Kucinich

[WI_DEM]

[jsamuel]

1. are there a bunch of Bayh staffers surfing right now or something?

[WI_DEM]

2. That or else people who don't like these polls are deliberately

skewing it. Whatever.

[Renew Deal]

4. I've never seen him get more than 2 votes here

:shrug:

[LSK]

3. Evan "I voted for the Bankruptcy Bill" Bayh has 8 votes?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00044

:wtf:

[flobee1]

5. I'm torn between Obama and Dennis

Both have great Ideas and get their point across

could make for some exciting debates!

[LSK]

7. I hope Gore runs

Hes my 1st choice.

I've seen Obama speak in person twice and I think he should be a VP 1st.

Gore/Obama would rule.

[Renew Deal]

12. I think Obama makes Kucinich obsolete

Obama is Kucinich with a better message and the ability to win.

[tritsofme]

13. Kucinich makes Kucinich obsolete.

Obama stands by himself and by his own merits.

[mike_c]

17. I'll stick with the original DK, thank you....

When only the real thing will do....

[goodhue]

23. If only

If only Obama supported single-payer health, WTO withdrawal, and immediately halting war appropriations. I like Obama a lot, but his message is not the same as Dennis.

[moi]

36. I know congressman Kucinich, and Obama is no Kucinich ;)

honestly, now.... check Obama's voting record, and his stance on Iraq. Obama voted *for* the Patriot Act, for the 600 miles fence between the US and Mexico, and there were no incremental money for the war in Iraq that he did not like :(

Up to November, when Obama was appearing a lot in Iowa I thought it was a good choice for the progressives... but his constant platitudes, his way of speaking in general terms started to bother me... Was then that I decided to check the voting record, and, honestly, I rather an honest hawk like Edwards that a "blah" like Obama :(

Peace
moi

[bobbolink]

41. Hi moi! Welcome to DU!

:toast:

I'm with you... I can't understand thinking that Obama and Kucinich are similar...:shrug:

Ohhh, I get it... they look like brothers... :hi:

[rebel with a cause]

48. Unless you are talking about a later vote

I don't think Obama was in the Senate for the original Patriot Act vote.

[Morgaine]

45. Dennis is clearly the better of the two.

I know Obama is a rock star, and I like him, but he's no Dennis. He doesn't stand up to the establishment the way Dennis does. I want a candidate with a firm commitment to getting our troops home.

Now if you want to talk Kucinch/Obama, then we're talking.

[CrazyForKucinich]

6. Yes. My vote just gave Kucinich the lead. Mwahahaha

14-13

[Renew Deal]

8. Where's Vilsack and Biden?

I thought they actually announced.

[Bluebear]

9. Biden's in the GOP poll, down the hall.

;)

[CrazyForKucinich]

10. Haha.

Good one.

[Renew Deal]

11. Not nice

:spank: :D

[LSK]

14. he also voted for the Bankruptcy bill n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. Getting their hair "done".

[davidwparker]

15. all of my answers will be Gore until there is no chance that he'll run.

Until then, I keep the porch light on for Gore. Actually, Gore/Clark 2008.

[slackmaster]

16. Not a big fan of Dennis, but glad to see such a vibrant field developing

Having lots of choices is good.

[mdmc]

18. kUCINICH!

gORE

[wildbilln864]

19. Gore/Kucinich!?

Kicinich/Gore? I like Dennis alot! :)

[mdmc]

20. Love Kucinich

I voted for Nader in 96 and 2000. I would lock step support Gore now. Bush beat the liberalism out of me.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DesertRat]

22. My first choice is Gore

I'm hoping he decides to run. :patriot:

[NotGivingUp]

24. kucinich by far! so glad he's running!

[Moloch]

25. You forgot Vilsack....

and has Clark confirmed he's running? If so, he's got my vote.

[antiimperialist]

26. Kucinich is the best candidate

I know he will probably struggle to get 5% in each state, but he's our favorite and the best of all.

Just don't forget: We need to support ANY candidate that comes out as winner in the primaries.

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. Dennis has the record and the substance

Peace Majority (composite of a variety of organizations working to reduce military spending and who favor diplomacy over military intervention – see list of sponsoring organizations of Peace Majority) link:

http://www.peacemajority.org//index.html

To see a breakdown of how this score is tabulated:

Link: http://www.peacemajority.org/scorecard/scorecard.jsp?person_legislator_ID=241

_______________________________

Representative Dennis Kucinich:

Final Score: 151.0/152.0 votes=99%
__________________________________

Senator Hillary Clinton:

Final Score: 75.0/133.0 votes=56%
_________________________________

Senator Barack Obama:

Final Score: 38.0/68.0 votes=56%
________________________________

Senator Evan Bayh:

Final Score: 46.0/133.0 votes=35%
_________________________________

Senator Joseph Biden:

Final Score: 70.0/133.0 votes=53%
_________________________________

Senator John Kerry

Final Score: 61.0/104.0 votes=59%
_________________________________

[zulchzulu]

28. Hate to say it, but Kucinich is not "presidential"

Hey, I like him...met him...seen him speak on several occasions... like his policies....but...and you can flame me (I don't care), he ain't "presidential" on a national scale.

Now if we were in Czechoslovakia or Switzerland...

Run Dennis run! I'm jus' sayin'.

[wildbilln864]

32. what's your definition of....

presidential?

He's the best man for the job IMHO!

[Morgaine]

43. According to whom?

I think Dennis Kucinich is very presidential. He's passionate about Peace, he has the courage to stand up to the Administration and the elephants in donkey's clothing that permeate his own party.

If it's about his looks, or his height, then that's the kind of shallow thinking that brought us George W. I think we know how that turned out.

Kucinich is my first choice, hands down.

[wisteria]

29. Senator Kerry is the one.

I actually had an opportunity to meet and listen to the Senator and he is just the most genuine,determined,compassionate, intelligent person I had the pleasure to meet in a political speaking. No one else measures up IMO. The others may offer something, but Kerry offers everything.

[karynnj]

31. As one of the other people just back from Boston,

I agree he is all of that and so is Teresa. They are both incredible.

But beyond personalities, watch the 4 Faneuil Hall speechs (on Dissent, Real security, healthcare and the environment/energy) and read the details of Kerry/Feingold (or listen to any of last weeks interviews on Iraq.) No one else running has competence over this large array of issues. These speeches are based on the depth of the commitment that he had on these issues over a lifetime.

Then consider the supposed negatives. The media wants to declare him inarticulate. But, I challange anyone to cite a sentence, phrase, paragraph or entire speech by any of the likely candidates that more succinctly, eloquently captures the the true heart of what policy should be on war than Kerry's 1971 comment that I have heard DAILY since the ISG report came out. Tell me anything said by Clinton or Edwards that will be remembered 30 years from now. The Dissent speech is if anything better.

Then think of the strength of character and morality that has enabled Kerry to stand alone or with few allies to fight things that are wrong. Consider in 2004, that his numbers shot up when the public was allowed to see him without MSM talking heads getting in the way.

[Paxdora]

33. Kerry is a loser...

and a friggin' corporatist shill...

[cali]

34. LOL!

The poll results are too funny. They certainly demonstrate neatly that DUers are not representative of dems in general.

[TacticalPeek]

35. Kick

:kick:

[hayu_lol]

37. This is absolutely hilarious...thanks for this skewed poll...

Dennis campaigned hard for the entire primary year. His scores were tolerable in about 4 states. He campaigned hard here in Oregon and managed, after 6 weeks of campaigning, to get 17%--mostly Green votes.

For all the other states, he seldom got above 1-3% of the votes. Nationally, he was under 10%.

This is a non-viable candidate.

Clark in '08

[skipos]

38. DUers are definitely not mainstream Democrats

He leads the polls here, but Kucinich did worse than Sharpton in 2004. Personally, I don't think that he really wants to be President.

[Dolphyn]

39. In 2004, Kucinich did better than you think ... in 2008, he will do MUCH better

hayu_lol wrote: "For all the other states, he seldom got above 1-3% of the votes."

That is incorrect. He exceeded 3% in 24 states by my count, plus DC and Samoa. source

Hawaii (caucus) 31%
Alaska (caucus) 27%
Minnesota (caucus) 17%
American Samoa (caucus) 17%
Oregon (primary) 17%
Maine (caucus) 16%
Colorado (caucus) 13%
North Carolina (caucus) 12%
Montana (primary) 11%
Kansas (caucus) 10%
Ohio (primary) 9%
District of Columbia (primary) 8%
Washington (caucus) 8%
Nevada (caucus) 7%
Utah (primary) 7%
New Mexico (caucus) 6%
Idaho (caucus) 6%
Wyoming (caucus) 6%
California (primary) 5%
New York (primary) 5%
Arkansas (primary) 5%
Massachusetts (primary) 4%
Vermont (primary) 4%
Pennsylvania (primary) 4%
Alabama (primary) 4%
New Jersey (primary) 4%

Dennis Kucinich is a viable candidate for 2008, because the tide of public opinion has turned toward what Kucinich has been saying all along. A new CNN poll shows that 54% want to exit Iraq immediately or within a year. source

[bobthedrummer]

40. Kick

[hayu_lol]

42. LOL! In Iowa, Kucinich got about 1%...in NH, about 1.5%...and by that time...

the media verdict was in: Kerry.

This is a skewed poll, but thats ok. I realize that fringe people have to make hay while the sun shines. Kucinich appears to be a nice guy, hasn't accomplished much in his life but thats ok too.

But for President? Nah. Clark.

[Morgaine]

44. We know how well Iowa's choice worked out for us...

try these numbers:

KUCINICH:
Oregon 17%
Maine 25%
Colorado 30%
Alaska 50%
Hawaii 30%

Not too shabby in a field of 7 candidates. Imagine how well he might have done if he'd had fair media coverage!

[ISUGRADIA]

49. Kerry 48%, 252 electoral votes. closest reelection

for an incumbent since 1916. Kucinich would not have done nearly as well against Bush, sorry.

[moi]

47. in Iowa was about 5%

5% of delegates at precinct caucuses... but if the County did not report 15%, it was not counted; probably much higher if you count those precincts where Kucinich did not get 15% (and then those people went to another candidate.)

I do think that this time around there is a difference. Health care (and a general dissatisfaction with insurance companies) and the war in Iraq are in the mind of most voters.

In January Bush will announce some kind of increase on troop deployment in Iraq. He will ask the Congress for additional money, probably much more than the 160 billion he was saying he would ask only a month ago. By Spring we will know who voted for additional funding of the war and who did not. If by that time Kucinich is the only candidate opposing funding the war, I think that he will be able to get a strong support. Keep in mind that most people did not predict the "sweep" of the last election, much less that somebody like Loebsack could beat a "safe" seat like the one held by Leach on Iowa's Second Congressional District.

Check how AP covered Kucinich's announcement. This is the lead: "Democratic Rep. Dennis Kucinich launched his second bid for president on Tuesday, a long-shot candidacy fueled by his frustration with his party's effort to end the Iraq war." As the pressure from the base to bring the troops back *now* increases, the media will "rediscover" Kucinich, and IMHO it will start calling him the "wild card candidate."

Add to the mix that Kucinich (and his supporters), learned how the caucus works, and that right now nobody is competing with him for the liberal and progressive win of the Party. And he will not be under pressure to be "first" in Iowa as Dean was. Even 15% will be a victory for Kucinich that could change what happens in other States.

[graywarrior]

46. Kucinich is really the only logical solution.

Much as I love Gore, Dennis is the only rational candidate.