Habitat for Humanity - good or bad?

[QuestionAll...]

a post here on DU casts some doubt on the credibility/honesty... etc. of H4H.
Note there are no links/sources to support these accusations in the OP.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2884433

I apologize if this sounds 'hateful', but I don't like to stand by and watch something like this.
For anyone agreeing or disagreeing with that personal opinion (without any supportive information), please provide some backup with links and sources to lend some actual formativeness to this topic.

[Armstead]

1. Good

It's not the only answer to the problems opf affordale housing and homelessness, but it's one approach that does good.

[Dorian Gray]

60. I agree...

Good. It's a great organization that does wonderful things for many people. It can not help everyone, and it is unfair to punish or criticize the good the organization does because of an impossibility.

[xxqqqzme]

2. a house was just finished here

in Huntington Beach, all work donated by women. I have donated to H4H for many years.

[madrchsod]

3. some cast doubt? i`d say so.

but that`s their opinion. oh well,i pay no attention to those who think everything that is positive has something inherently wrong with it.

[Spazito]

4. Good! Not perfect but very good...

No organization can be all to everyone and Habitat for Humanity is no exception. I believe, overall, it achieves it's purpose.

[goddess40]

67. I'd agree with you - not so good here- I'd give them a C-

It's run here by a group of Conservatives who cringe that Jimmy Carter is involved at all. Someone close to me used to belong to the group but left after they started to let the new homeowners slide on their payment plan.
I wasn't too happy when they took two lots and put up four houses - with the approval of the city council. But the idea is supposed to be integrating families not setting up new low income neighborhoods.
Their home designs leave something to be desired as well - this is the midwest home of tornado's and winter. So slab homes and one car garages don't quite cut it, and from what I understand they had to fight to get any garage at all.
That said, I'm sure other areas do a much better job then is being done here - it all depends on who's running the local program.

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Good. Those on the other post need to be aware that there are 92 local

Habitat for Humanity affliates across the country. Each operates independently. Here the houses are not built with inferior products, cannot be resold within a certain number of years, and there is a massive waiting list for homes.

" Your local affiliate can give you information on the availability, size, costs and sweat-equity requirements for Habitat houses in your area, as well as information on the application process."

http://www.habitat.org/how/factsheet.aspx

[mondo joe]

6. Habitat is great.

It's not the solution to every problem, but it's not intended to be.

[WI_DEM]

7. Good! and I have friends who have worked on their projects

and it seems like a very good initiative.

[JacksonWest]

8. I don't think the post cast doubt on the organization.

It seemed to be a post that called attention to the fact that there is no group giving free housing to the homeless. Habitat helps low income folks who wouldn't otherwise be able to afford a home.

I think it was silly to disparage an organization(rather indirectly) for not supporting your cause when they support another, noble undertaking.

[whyzayker]

10. My retired parents are working for HFH

Even got a few pictures of them with the Carters. They were down in the Gulf last winter trying to rebuild an area my Dad described as looking like an atom bomb went off. He couldn't believe the stories he heard from locals describing the lack of help from the Feds.

[lumberjack_jeff]

9. Good.

It gives the recipients the self-esteem of helping build their own home, it gets the recipients into homeownership and it gives the volunteers a venue to help that they are thirsty for.

In my area, the challenge is finding property to build on, not volunteers.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

11. Silly questions - good or bad?

Please provide links and sources.

[MadHound]

12. I think that Habitat does great things

Sure, some folks want to cast aspertions because Habitat fails to address all of the housing needs of all the poor. But quite frankly, even as big as they are, they can't be all things for everybody when it comes to housing:shrug: For the goals that it sets out however, I think that Habitat is a wonderful group.

[uppityperson]

13. Good.

They help people into affordable housing that otherwise would not be able to be there. That is what they do and they do a good job at it.

[DiverDave]

14. GOOD!

a friend, a single mom, has a house thanks to them...changed her life, and her kid's lives too.

[Nutmegger]

15. GOOD! GOOD! AND GOOD!

I use to do volunteer work for them way back when. An excellent organization that brought a lot of help to many people.

[Sapphire Blue]

16. Too bad some of that 'humanity' being defended doesn't extend to a homeless DUer.

Funny how some posts in that thread twisted others' words into something that wasn't being said... for what? Why were others' words twisted? What was the motivation?

Think about this when you see the next story of a homeless person attacked on the streets... about how some right here treated a homeless person who came here looking for a little understanding & compassion.

Just some goddamn compassion & understanding.

Humanity, indeed.

(Edited to change "To ridicule a homeless person?" to "Why were others' words twisted? What was the motivation?")

[QuestionAll...]

17. sorry, but I saw No Ridicule for a Homeless Person in that thread...

please provide a link to a particular post that you consider so, as I can't find any.

yes, there are challenges on the OPs understanding of what H4H does and does not do - that is Not Ridicule of the Homeless by any stretch of the imagination.

[Sapphire Blue]

42. You saw what you wanted to see & posted this thread further distorting bobbolink's words.

Pat yourself on the back: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2884433&mesg_id=2897236


"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

- Matthew 25:44-45

[uppityperson]

18. I didn't see posts ridiculing homeless person, just defending H4H

Compassion was expressed to homeless person for their homelessness. What H4H does is good. They do not do everything, are not the end all and be all for homeless, but are good for what they do. More is needed otherwise for homeless people of course. Much more. This is what I read and what I believe.

[Sapphire Blue]

39. You "didn't see... " That reminds me of...

"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

- Matthew 25:44-45

[sniffa]

41. i see them up on their cross just fine

but quit bogarting the crucifix.

[uppityperson]

44. knock it off. I understand that she is having a really hard time.

Don't think cutting down H4H was the way to express that. I am sorry for so many having difficult times and hope they can find help. Meanwhile, save your bibilical quotes for someone who they will impress.

[Sapphire Blue]

47. You twisted her words to further bash her. You should "knock it off."

The biblical quotes were very fitting.

[uppityperson]

48. Expressing compassion and questioning someone's incorrect facts is "bashing"

you have a different idea of what bashing is than I do. bye.

[Sapphire Blue]

50. If I ever need compassion, I know where *not* to look. btw, have you read posts 22 & 25?

[uppityperson]

71. Post #65 is my reply back.

Yes, and I am very sorry that the poster is going through such a hard time and hope can find help.

[uppityperson]

75. As QA put it so well, I will copy and repeat. (Thanks QA#56)

And Saph, you can accuse me (and others) of heartlessness, of being plain old mean and grinch-like and throw out bible quotes at me to make me feel like I will burn in hell because 'I don't care for the homeless' - but you don't know me and who I give to and what my life is about and I have no desire to explain or justify myself to you or anyone - so thump those accusations up your bible because I am not buying that guilt trip you are selling.

[Lurking Dem]

54. Hey, I was accused of wanting to see dead

homeless people in the streets! That is, apparently, not bashing but simply pointing out what a vile person I am for supporting Habitat and feeding homeless people.

[mondo joe]

62. Nothing like being told I want homeless people dead to get a

conversation going.

[Lurking Dem]

72. I had to bite my tongue

to keep my truly morbid and sarcastic sense of humor in check.

[Dorian Gray]

65. Instead of quoting scripture

can you please show us the words that were so hateful and hurtful and full of ridicule for a fellow DUer? I also didn't see it, and I think accusations without proof or follow through are totally unfair.

[uppityperson]

70. exactly, thank you

[Giant Robot]

37. Because we are not jumping up and down in outrage

at Habitat not helping her out does not mean that we do not care or that we are ridiculing her. I believe what the other posters and I were trying to say was that she was trying to compare apples and guacamole. Habitat was not the enemy for her to be raging against if she was looking for answers and help. If she wants to rage against the system, HUD, or an agency that was supposed to meet her need and failed, I am sure we would be the first to have her back on this. But this is just like spitting in the wind to rage against an agency that is not set up to help you to begin with when they deny you for any services.

And to answer the OP's question, I think Habitat is more good than anything. They are an agency of human beings like any other place, and will have some shady characters and make mistakes, but overall the provide many people with housing that would not normally be able to get it.

[Sapphire Blue]

52. Please read posts 22 & 25.

[Giant Robot]

55. Wow here's something amazing

I already read them before I replied. There is no need to put up the argument that I don't get it, or what not, or I haven't been there. Let's just skip that one as well. I have been working very hard in both threads to say that we care about her, but think the argument she picked is the wrong one. Bobolink and her argument are two separate things, and we are looking at the argument here, not her. She is much more than just a collection of words strung together. There were better ways she could have expressed her hurt, her anger, her frustration. And that is very important in the world, to be able to communicate those things effectively, and may help alleviate some suffering that we as humans experience if we can just do that much.

[lumberjack_jeff]

49. If the poster had criticized NAACP for not helping her...

... the argument would be equally as valid.

H4H is not all things to all people, any more than NAACP is. They have an honorable mission and they do it well.

Defending H4H from false and misleading claims is not the same as ridiculing homeless people.

Perhaps an organization like "rebuilding together" might be able to help.

[Sapphire Blue]

51. Please read posts 22 & 25.

[Dorian Gray]

63. Can you link to a post where anybody ridiculed a fellow DUer?

Seriously, I read that other topic, and I saw people perhaps a little angry about the aspersions cast upon H4H that were unfair and untrue. Nothing at all condemned or ridiculed someone who was homeless, however.

It truly is unfair to relate false information about a charity that does good work for many. My heart goes out to those who suffer in this country, including our fellow DUers who have fallen on difficult times. The only responses to that post were those defending H4H and saying that the accusations were unfair, which I 100% agree with. Other than that, my heart and my prayers are with those suffering through these bad times, and I think it would be a good response to link to a national database of organizations that might help. Guidestar.org is a good place to start the research.

[Midlodemocrat]

69. Her OP had nothing to do with seeking compassion.

It was bashing an organization that does phenomenally good works because the OP couldn't be a recipient.

That thread was full of lies about HfH. I know. They're a client of mine and have been for a long time.

[Nicole]

19. Good

They are good at what they do. They can't do everything, no organziation can.

[Xithras]

20. I've volunteered with H4H for years.

I've helped build five homes now. Extremely GOOD organization.

What many people missed in the other thread, especially those bashing H4H, is that they don't actually give homes away to anybody. If they did, they'd help far fewer people. While much of the material and land is donated to H4H homes, there ARE still some rather high costs involved in building the houses and H4H neighborhoods. H4H cannot afford to eat these costs, and passes them on to the homeowner in the form of a mortgage. Donations do help offset some of the costs and keep the payments lower, but the majority of the cost of the homes are still borne by the those who end up in the houses. If H4H tried to absorb those costs and give the houses away for free, they'd be closing their doors in only a few months.

This is why H4H isn't in the business of giving houses away to the unemployed homeless. H4H only has two solid prequalifications for getting into their homes. First, you have to prove that you actually need it. Second, you have to prove that you can pay the debt and taxes that come along with the house. Posters like the OP in the other thread, while genuinely in need, cannot pass the second qualification. What good would it do H4H to give them homes, if they just ended up foreclosed on a few months later because the residents couldn't afford the mortgage?

As I understand it, the last H4H home I worked on ended up with a $375 a month mortgage, an amount generally affordable to the working poor. THOSE are the people that Habitat works to help. The huge underclass in our country that DOES work and have income, but that doesn't make enough money to actually get ahead and make it. In my area, average rents are about $1100 a month for a house, and even a cheap 1 bedroom apartment will set you back $750 or so. The home went to a wonderful young mother with two children who, despite working two full time fast food jobs to feed her kids, still found the time to come down and help us a few hours each day on the house. She was working as hard as she could to provide for herself and her kids, and just needed a hand to get out of her county-provided motel room and into an actual home. H2H, and every volunteer who helped work on that home, did their best to give her that hand.

I don't understand how anyone could object to that.

[WiseButAngrySara]

21. Tres GOOD. ....n/t

[Wiley50]

22. You Folks make me think of what Warpy posted last night

on the "The Rich are not Like Us" thread

"They can be very generous to anyone who is inside the wall, but don't DARE ask any of them for a single thing. It just isn't DONE and you'll be shown the door as quickly as possible. I saw that happen to other folks more than once."

I'm afraid some of you may have shown someone the door

I just came from reading through Bobbolink's Habitat For humanity thread and
I have to say I saw a lot of misunderstanding there. She got flamed pretty bad.
So bad, that she said she wasn't going to be posting anymore. I don't know if she
meant in that thread or on DU at all. I haven't seen any other recent posts since
then, so I don't know.

After I read through it, I went back and read her OP again. I think she may have chosen
an unfortunate subject line, but she said that she didn't have much time to compose the post
(I guess she was at the library or something). She wasn't trashing HFH, as many posts very
defensive of HFH seemed to be responses to. She was simply pointing out that HFH got the lion's
share of attn as far as "housing" organizations go, which is true, they have high profile
people like Jimmy Carter speaking for them and a lot of mainstream churches behind them ( I
don't know if an open avowed atheist has ever received a Habitat home, but I'd be kinda surprised)
They are a good organization in the niche of people they help. When I was still able-bodied and
still installing carpet and sheet vinyl, I donated my labor to them more than once.

But they don't, nor do very many orgs, fill the gap between temporary shelters and HFH houses, the gap
that she exists in. And that was all she was really saying. It's too bad some people didn't get that.
I hope she will still be around.

[G_Leo_Criley]

25. this is very sad ...

A DUer has reached out to others, trying to express her confusion and sense of hopelessness in her situation, even as she shows us her spirited nature.

She's homeless. She's trying to tell people that living in a shelter is unhealthy, she's looking for actual housing not shelter.

But habitat for humanity doesn't serve her needs, her population, and that's all that she was trying to say.

She's feeling sad and angry that she can't seem to get through to those trying to help her that a shelter isn't adequate. And now, she can't get through on DU.

I didn't realize that Bobbolink had posted anything about leaving. I hope that she'll come back.

You have to learn - Every time someone says something that's at all critical of something you admire, they aren't necessarily attacking it. Reasonable people have to start to realize this. There are shades of gray in all situations.

Bobbolink was using her criticisms to try to tell you what she needed.

glc

[Sapphire Blue]

28. ... and cruel. Just plain cruel. Thank you for speaking out!

:hug:

[Sapphire Blue]

30. !

[G_Leo_Criley]

32. !

!

[Sapphire Blue]

33. !!

[calimary]

35. Well put. Yes, H4H is great. But it doesn't help everyone who needs

help. And we have one of those among us. I hope bobbolink comes back, too, but don't know if she will. She was pretty discouraged - and confronting the predicament she's in every day, I can well understand.

[G_Leo_Criley]

36. !!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2884433&mesg_id=2897236

[Dorian Gray]

73. I understand that and my sympathies are with her for her plight.

It's terrible that anybody has to suffer through homelessness. What I think made me uncomfortable, however, was the post which seemed to condemn H4H for not being able to address her situation. The charity is no less worthy because it doesn't focus on her demographic. As a matter of fact, many more people would be in her situation without the aid of H4H.

I understand that may not have been her intent to malign H4H. Many people here, including myself, have worked for Habitat and have donated to Habitat. So, yeah, we may be a little more defensive of a charity/organization with which we identify with. But, my defense of Habitat in no way maligned Bobolink, and I didn't once see any accusations thrown at her about her condition or situation. I saw defense of Habitat, which is quite natural when people identify with such an organization, rather than condemnation of her. And I think it's sad that she would leave this site because of a disagreement about an organization.

I think her point regarding Habitat was wrong and there was quite a bit of misinformation about the charity in that whole thread. I also understand that it might anger her (whether it is rightfully or not, we can argue) that they don't address the needs of people in situations like hers. People were responding to that, and only that, in the other thread. Not one person condemned her for her horrible situation. My heart bleeds for her plight, and I hope that she can get back on her feet soon. And, once again, I think that it would be a fantastic opportunity for someone to come up with a general database that we could include on some pages here at DU for those DUers in need. Charities divided by state and/or by focus. It would be a wonderful tool for us to have.

[NMMNG]

76. Unfortunately,

bobbolink has lashed out more than once with the notion that "if you don't help me specifically you are undeserving of praise/deserving of wrath", which is not only wrong but hateful. You apparently weren't there when she denounced clergy for http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2692542#2697451">speaking up for gays because they weren't speaking up for her at the same time, then made the outrageous claim that no gay person has ever helped her in any way (apparently she knows the charitable giving records of every one of us somehow). Now she bashes H4H, a wonderful charity, because she's not eligible for their services. I suppose bobbolink would think Mother Theresa was dirt because MT never did anything specifically for her.

Lashing out at everyone is not the way to get people on her side. Screaming "you don't deserve anything because YOU don't do anything for ME" is not going to win any support or sympathy, nor any empathy.

And please don't tell me I know nothing of need and the search for services. I've experienced plenty of it myself, and I've worked in the human service field for nearly 20 years including several in a family shelter, 20 with adults with developmental disabilities and 5 with adults with mental illnesses.

[Sapphire Blue]

29. Thank you for speaking out!

:hug:

[Sapphire Blue]

31. !

[G_Leo_Criley]

34. !

!

[Vidar]

23. Good.

[zulchzulu]

24. Not good.....AMAZING!

I've done volunteer work with Habitat For Humanity and it's fantastic! Great people, great mission, great results. No, it's not "perfect"...

[kath]

26. Question about the religious aspect of HFH -

how easy is it to get them to build a house for you if you're non-Christian or non-religous??

[uppityperson]

27. it is not in their mandate, religion, as far as I have seen

[LostinVA]

40. That makes NO difference

[melm00se]

45. here is your answer

http://www.habitat.org/how/myths.aspx

Myth: You have to be Christian to become a Habitat homeowner.

Fact: Habitat for Humanity is a Christian organization. However, homeowners are chosen without regard to race, religion or ethnic group, in keeping with U.S. law and with Habitat's abiding belief that God's love extends to everyone. Habitat also welcomes volunteers from all faiths, or no faith, who actively embrace Habitat's goal of eliminating poverty housing from the world.

[LostinVA]

38. There is no question of the good they do -- they are a great organization

I've been involved with chapters in two different states and three different cities. They are credible, honest, and a great organization. Period.

[Catchawave]

46. They provide opportunities for the working poor

who may not otherwise afford home ownership, or in the case of Katrina, rebuilding. Nor are these homes just handed to them, they have to help with construction!

http://www.habitat.org/newsroom/2006archive/08_28_2006_Habitat_OHD_Update.aspx

[melm00se]

43. in the link in the top post

the poster is concerned about the family flipping the house.

On my last H4H build that question was asked and the answer was that the deed specifies a period of time during which, if the house is sold, it must be sold back to H4H, this prevents people with a mercenary bent from doing this.

this is a very simple thing for H4H to police as they are the 1st mortgage holder...

as to it being a "niche charity", H4H has built 50,000+ homes in the USA, that is a lot of houses and has helped 150,000+ people.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

53. just because something didnt benefit one person doesnt mean it doesnt benefit society

take GMHC (gay mens health crisis)...if you are a hetero woman with no gay children..no dealing with HIV + individuals...you could call it a useless organization (cos it doesnt benefit you)

however it does benefit other people

so in my opinion its a great organization

[QuestionAll...]

56. thanks all for your input and this to Saph...

As there were some accusatory and unfair criticisms (without any backup) of H4H in the other thread that led to some pretty bizarre reactions and replies as:
(admin fees are too high!
they use cheap materials for the houses!
oh, I didn't know that - I won't be donating to them again! )

That kind of baseless gossip rumour talk can do damage to a good organization and I did not want to see that.

And Saph, you can accuse me (and others) of heartlessness, of being plain old mean and grinch-like and throw out bible quotes at me to make me feel like I will burn in hell because 'I don't care for the homeless' - but you don't know me and who I give to and what my life is about and I have no desire to explain or justify myself to you or anyone - so thump those accusations up your bible because I am not buying that guilt trip you are selling.

[Giant Robot]

57. Ditto n/t

[Sapphire Blue]

61. Do you even get that your words have really hurt someone? Do you even care?

Since you said that "have no desire to explain or justify {your}self to {me} or anyone" , please don't think I'm expecting an answer. It's just something for you to contemplate.

[Giant Robot]

66. If she is fragile enough that disagreeing with her message

can "really hurt" her, then I will pray doubly for her. But, this is just a suggestion, maybe crafting a better message will avert this in the future, as she did say some disparaging and untrue things about an organization that does for the most part, a lot of good.

[Dorian Gray]

74. What words really hurt her?

I'd really like to see a disparaging word about Bobolink? Disagreement about the validity of Habitat for Humanity shouldn't hurt ANYBODY"s feelings. That's what I don't understand about this whole thing. Is it possible that Bobo worded her post badly, felt a lot of disagreement and was sensitive to that? That's what I'm seeing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. It is a great organization

Some people dislike it because it is not all things to all people.

[Kelly Rupert]

59. Good. Anyone who says otherwise is ridiculous. n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

64. Homeless people who are pro-draft should JOIN THE FUCKING ARMY.

:grr:

[TakesAVillage_People]

68. Hey everyone

I see a lot of non constructive time here.

For anyone who is serious about helping someone not as fortunate as you, stop blathering about it and just do it.

Albeit H&H, Comic Relief NO, Humane Society, GreenPeace etc... or the numerous individual who need assistance right here right now.

You care? then find the person, persons or organization who move you.

Then shutup and help.

Thank You

[JanMichael]

77. Not all Good nor all Bad. Personally I don't think site selection is so hot...

...nor do I think that the designs help much either.

However they mean well but that so called raod to hell was paved with what?

Anyway not all Habitats are the same anyway so my comments only apply to those two that I have experiance with.

Design: Generally Bad.

Site Selection (always being pressed to the outskirts of town): Bad.

Dedication to Housing: Good.