White House now "HOSTILE" to Iraq report; Bush insists on "victory"

[Bluebear]

WASHINGTON - Administration officials say their preliminary review of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group's recommendations has concluded that many of its key proposals are impractical or unrealistic, and a small group inside the National Security Council is now racing to come up with alternatives to the panel's ideas.

In interviews over the last two days with officials from the White House, the State Department, the Pentagon and foreign diplomats, Bush and his top aides were described as deeply reluctant to follow the core strategy advocated by the study group: to pressure Prime Minister Nouri Kamal al-Maliki to rein in sectarian violence faced with reduced U.S. military and economic support...

And they took issue with the decision by former Secretary of State James A. Baker III and the nine other members of the commission to make no mention of promoting democracy as an American goal in the Middle East, and to drop any suggestion that "victory" was still possible in Iraq when they presented their findings to Bush and to the public on Wednesday.

"You saw that the president used the word victory' again the next day," said one of Bush's aides. "Believe me, that was no accident."

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1210iraqbush1210.html

[lapfog_1]

1. Well, at least we won't have the muddling middle to deal with.

The fuzzy thinking "bi-partisan" solutions that satisfy no one and have zero chance of success.

The war is going to be shorter now. That's the good news. The bad news is that thousands more American soldiers have to die for this asshole and his maniacal war.

[Kellyiswise]

103. Will this revolution be televised?

[bahrbearian]

146. No it will not be Televised ,but it can be viewed on the Internets,.

[maggiegault]

122. Like this brave young man.

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Staff Sgt. Kristofer R. Ciraso, 26, of Bangor, Maine, died of injuries suffered when an improvised explosive device detonated near his military vehicle in Baghdad, Iraq, on Dec. 7. Ciraso was assigned to the 1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment, 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 1st Cavalry Division, Fort Hood, Texas.

He was a member of my brother's platoon.

[bahrbearian]

147. May he rest in Peace,, So Sad.

[niceypoo]

137. It's all about George doncha know?

Bush is under the fantasy, drilled into him I'm sure by those around him, that history will vindicate him. So what if a million more die before its all over, its all about George.

[leveymg]

2. They're going to have to remove Dubya.

He's resisting adult supervision.

[donheld]

11. What's scary is this madman has nukes at his finger-tips

That should make the entire world quake with worry.

[Lord Balto]

81. Then again

There is really only ONE explanation that fits this situation. George W Bush is in the employ of the Saudi Arabian royal family and his (their) ultimate goal is the total destruction of the military machine of the United States of America. We have been sold out by a puppet of the international oil cartel who cares not one whit about you or I or the United States of America. The Vandals are at the gates of Rome and our only hope lies in the chicken-livered Congress of the United States. God help us.

[Laurab]

88. Let's hope the new Congress isn't "chicken-livered"

I get the feeling things will be changing come January - I sure hope so.

Welcome to DU!

[donheld]

119. Welcome to DU Lord Balto

:hi:

[Octafish]

124. More and more of the the officer corps can't stand him.

They won't let just any old nutjob use the nookyooler arsenal.

PS: A hearty welcome to DU, Lord Balto.

[EnviroBat]

167. 100% Right On...

I've been saying the same thing since this whole disaster began. Welcome to DU!

[Cooley Hurd]

18. Memo to GWB: Do NOT accept ANY invitations to Dallas from GHWB...

...and, if you do, keep the top up.:evilgrin:

[Lord Balto]

120. Virus Oyster

I am aware of the theories that put GHWB in Dallas on November 22, 1963, in the employ of the CIA. However, I can't conceive of even such a suckass as him helping to kill his own idiot son. The problem with all these happy little scenarios is that they put Dr. Death in the White House, or at least in the basement of the White House, where he can plot his little evil plots free of even the tepid oversight of GWB.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[struggle4progress]

84. Amendment XXV won't help us with this crew: it would put Cheney in charge.

Amendment XXV - Presidential Disability and Succession. Ratified 2/10/1967 ...

1. In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.

2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.

3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

Thereafter, when the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that no inability exists, he shall resume the powers and duties of his office unless the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive department or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit within four days to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office. Thereupon Congress shall decide the issue, assembling within forty eight hours for that purpose if not in session. If the Congress, within twenty one days after receipt of the latter written declaration, or, if Congress is not in session, within twenty one days after Congress is required to assemble, determines by two thirds vote of both Houses that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall continue to discharge the same as Acting President; otherwise, the President shall resume the powers and duties of his office.

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

[PegDAC]

126. Can't there be a twofer?

Both of them at once?

[diane in sf]

162. A Twofer or maybe a Three or Fourfer

Cheney is just as impeachable as Bush, Condi collaborated in lying us to war and certainly there must be more in this administration just as rotten.

[sallyseven]

115. When is someone going to pull the plug?

He should not be allowed to continue. How many more have to die for his mistake? I cannot believe that he is going to be making the decisions about this conflict. Congress should turn off the money right away.

[PADemD]

142. That is the only alternative to impeaching Bush and Cheney becoming President.

[Trajan]

3. 'Alternatives' ....

WAR ! ... WAR ! ... WAR ! ... WAR ! ... WAR ! ... WAR ! ... WAR ! ...

End of brainstorming session ....

[Erika]

4. W will need to be impeached

We don't need more of our troops dying.

[calimary]

43. Bingo! As he remains stubborn, and Iraq only grows worse and more

Americans finally come to their senses about it (AND, more importantly - more GOPers like Senator Gordon Smith, R-OR, come to their senses), it will become a more realistic option. IMPEACHMENT will start gathering momentum. If that's the only way to turn things around on Iraq, and everybody but this small group in the White House (junior and pals) wants it, perhaps the only move that remains viable and available to the rest of us is to remove that small group.

We may actually come to that, guys. Watching Senator Smith Friday evening on "Countdown" was riveting. That was a cataclysmic moment. Perhaps the moment the worm finally turned.

Keep visualizing...

Visualize IMPEACHMENT!!!
And then go DO something about it.

[stevedeshazer]

74. Take it from me, Gordon Smith has only 'come to his senses' as far as 2008

I tried here to explain why Smith is not credible.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2885402

[calimary]

97. Yeah, I noticed that, too, when Keith, or somebody on there made note

that he has two years to go on his term. Well, why WOULDN'T any really shrewd person capable of reading the handwriting on the wall and counting poll numbers realize that it's time to change priorities and loyalties a little? Hey, I don't really care why they're softening up. All I care is that they do. Strictly numerically, we NEED a LOT of them on his side of the aisle if we're EVER going to really and truly "slam-dunk" this one. If he's moved over to The Light on this one, perhaps his stirring speech (and it WAS rather stirring) might be the straw that will break other republi-CONS' backs, and turn them back into Republicans for once in their lives. Long enough, at least, for the rest of us to gain the undefiable and unturnable majorities we need to get rid of bush, end the war, and lock in a Democratic majority for years to come.

If it becomes unpopular or even unstylish to support the war anymore, I'll take it. If Paris Hilton climbs on the bandwagon, I'll welcome her. Hell, if K-Fed does, same thing. I don't care at this point. I'm only interested in the numbers. HOW MANY of these can we bring into the fold? HOW MANY? We need a LOT. Looks like one-by-one they're starting to come aboard. As long as they get onboard, I don't care what motivated them.

[exlrrp]

169. Great post, Steve

As a fellow webfoot, I applaud and second your outstanding post you referenced.
took the words right out of my mouth, er, keyboard.
I'll be working with you for Smith's demise in '08

[stubtoe]

80. Hope you're right, Calimary

Time to start sending those cards and letters to congress.

[Homer Wells]

127. I am concerned that, if Impeachment becomes inevitable,

the the little fellow in the big chair will arrange for another 9/11 or worse incident to happen, at which point he will declare martial law, and put the big kibosh on any chance of successfully getting him or any of his cronies out of office.

Perhaps I am in the market for a tin foil hat, but I don't put it out of the realm of possibility

:tinfoilhat: :scared:

[sweetheart]

5. send that motherfucker commander to the front

Let him put his own life on the line for his bullshit.

What a cheap coward?

[sakabatou]

6. I want to see him on the front lines too

[Mythsaje]

7. They've gone rogue!

This is SO not going to end well.

[Marr]

75. Yep- sounds like the GW Bush team has made the mistake of

thinking they're really in charge. They're going to be removed from office if they don't get in line.

[calimary]

99. Good! Good! Good!

At this point, whatever gets rid of them works for me. WHATEVER does it. Even more beautiful if they'll have done it to themselves. Their hubris and close-mindedness and stubbornness will be their undoing, I hope.

And the more intractable they become, the better. Because it'll piss off more people and push them away - and into OUR waiting arms. And soon we'll have numbers behind us SO large that they're unavoidable, unignorable, and completely veto-proof.

[Yukari Yakumo]

8. Should we be surprised? {nt}

:sarcasm:

[calimary]

104. Welcome to DU!

:D

[Selatius]

9. Bush just killed several thousand more soldiers and hundreds thousands more Iraqis.

The man will drag the US into the fires of hell before he finds victory.

[Tansy_Gold]

29. And the victory he finds in hell will likely not be his own.

There's something to be said, I suppose, for a "victory" that's defined by other terms than vanquishing the foe. There are moral victories and personal victories. But I don't think booosh thinks <?> in terms like that.

The only thing he sees, the only thing he's capable of imagining in that warped, diseased brain of his, is a military victory of the type the U.S. and its allies achieved -- and celebrated -- in World War II. After crushing the foe, we went into the defeated nations and rebuilt them on our own model.

This seems to be additional evidence that junior has major, major problems in his relationship with his father. His father's generation achieved that victory, but then junior's generation got stuck with Vietnam. Poppy then failed to complete the defeat of Saddem in 1992, and 9/11 gave junior the opportunity not only to avenge his own personal Vietnam "defeat" but go one-up on the old man: make a big victory in Iraq just like WW2, and make it bigger than Poppy's in 1991.

Because there are so many hangers-on who are getting filthy rich off the continued slaughter, they don't care -- they just fucking don't care -- about either the nation per se or the people, and if you ask me whether I mean the nation or the people of the U.S. or of Iraq, my response would be, "Does it matter?"

One of the reasons economic globalization has been so embraced by these people is that they no longer have to be confined to one geographic "nation" to enjoy the fruits of their greed. Why else would the uber-patriotic boooosh clan even consider a retreat in Paraguay? Unlike vampires, they don't need their native soil to flourish.

So junior rants about victory, and he may indeed drag the country of which he is nominally president through the fires of hell, but the victory he achieves will never be the one he envisions -- or indeed, the one we think he envisions. And it will never be enough to satisfy his lust to measure up to his father. Nothing will.

Do we indeed have a madman in control? Yes, but the madman isn't GWB. He's just the perfect front man. He couldn't be more perfect if he tried.


Tansy Gold

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. CBS Sunday Morning is doing a segment right now that is echoing your post/

[annabanana]

58. Well said, Tansy.

You've characterized it perfectly.

[Lord Balto]

85. A Bit Complex

Nah. You're over analyzing the situation. Bush is working for the Saudis and this entire scenario--WTC, Afghanistan, Iraq--was hatched by the current sheikh-in-charge in Riyahd. I will resist the temptation to quote William Burroughs. Let's just say you're getting double zero in a floor-by-floor game of world domination.

[calimary]

105. Welcome to DU!

bush and family have ALWAYS been working for the Saudis.

[xxqqqzme]

136. chucklenuts may be kissing saudi ass

but he isn't working FOR them. He is incapable of working for anything or body other than himself. I don't even think he is working for 'the family' any more. He is obsessed w/ eclipsing his father, and is, typically fucking up everything he touches. This blind obsession guarantees he will never achieve his goal.

I have often lamented to friends that it is unfortunate we have no cultural tradition of 'storming the bastille'. We have all been raised/indoctrinated on the 'good guys' prevailing in the end. The 'white hat' rides in @ the end and saves the wrongly accused from swinging. We need to realize WE are the good guys - we are the only ones who can get rid of the bully terrorizing the town. No body is coming to save us - it is up to us.

[Az]

10. Well I guess now we know Bush is a true believer

This report was an opportunity for them to back down. That they are sticking to their guns means they are completely off their nut and out of the loop of reality.

[EVDebs]

50. Plans for bases, seizure of oil made since '73 with Nixon

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2646397&mesg_id=2646804

The permanent bases fuel the insurgency yet since Nixon's days (read Cheney/Rummy and the Vulcans) you have this nuttiness
in a document leaked by the Brits on New Years two yrs ago

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=file/c/a/2004/01/02MNG8G427D61.DTL

Document reveals Nixon plan to seize Arab oil fields
'70s embargo sparked 'last resort' measure, says British memo

Lizette Alvarez, New York Times

Friday, January 2, 2004

The Saudis just forced a change to Iraq to suit themselves.

[krispos42]

92. This is why we need more aircraft carriers

and Marines battalions aboard ships. The ships stay out of sight, out of mind, until it's time to kick some ass someplace. Then it's cruise missiles, guided bombs, and anti-tank missiles until helicopters full of gun-toting leathernecks backed by gunships swarm over the target. Then, just as quickly, they vanish back to the ships cruising in international waters. And if they are pursued, they are facing fighters and air-defense cruisers bristling with missiles.

It is more than enough force for a quick, powerful strike, and not enough for an occupation. Works for me. If you need to occupy something, get a declaration of war and mass the army.

[EVDebs]

132. War Powers Resolution of '73 requires 'clear' 'circumstances', 'situations'

If you review the AUMF's (authorizations for use of miltary force) that allowed the actions on the GWOT (global war on terror--I prefer just TWAT, the war against terror) and in Iraq

( please read my archived post at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2382761 )


you find that clarity is required. When Sen Warner mentioned a revisitation to the Iraq AUMF by Congress the media and congress have since dropped the ball.

[PassingFair]

60. Unless they are just playing their old game of appearing to compromise:

They have to start from their far right.



The "study report" basically calls for them to
do what it takes to keep control of the oil until
the 08 elections, doesn't it?

[w13rd0]

12. That madman...

...has Weapons of Mass Destruction. We can not permit the most dangerous and unstable men in the world to possess the worlds most dangerous and deadly weapons. Bush BELIEVES history will vindicate his actions, in the face of all oppositon. I'm sure other men throughout history have believed likewise. Hitler, Idi Amin, the Khamer Rouge, Pontius Pilate, Judas Iscariot. Bush has surely secured his place in the history books, but his belief in historical "vindication" is demonstrating the same blind adherence to a distored reality that got him to launch a war based on what he KNEW were lies and deceptions.

[mwb970]

93. You are right.

We can not permit the most dangerous and unstable men in the world to possess the worlds most dangerous and deadly weapons.

This is why Bush and Cheney must be investigated, impeached, and convicted, and soon. I really don't care what happens to them after that. Although I have a few ideas, some of them involving aggressive interrogation methods.

[krispos42]

95. Ah, so they can order the Gitmo Sampler Platter?

:rofl:

We can always use a big deli slicer. Put it on ⅛" and have them.

Let's see. There's eight slices to an inch, the average man is about 68 inches tall, so that's 544 cuts. Well, I guess 543, cuz it's actually 544 slices, so you need to make 543 cuts.

Then we can preserve them between plates of glass and hang them in Leavenworth, like that sliced-up cadaver in the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry.

[NMMNG]

13. Stubborn little b*stard, isn't he?

No matter how many people he has to kill and how many recommendations he has to defy, he'll have his little war until the end of his pResidency.

[smirkymonkey]

51. He's delusional is what he is.

He is now on a par with Kim Jong Il, but dumber and possibly more dangerous.

He needs to be locked up. Immediately.

[wake.up.america]

54. Bush is not thinking in a what most people would consider a rational manner.

Either he is insane in the sense he believes Iraq poises a threat to America, or he trying to vindicate himself by winning a war everyone else says is not winnable. He has painted himself into a corner.

His object now is to try to convince everyone his cause is noble.

Look for a national and international whirl wind tour in an attempt to convince America and the world of the necessity of "winning in Iraq.

[DaveT]

100. There is a third possibility.

He could be satisified with the ongoing stalemate in Iraq -- with our troops in their bases and the Iraqis killing each other like mad. Huge profits go to the support companies so long as the madness continues.

Both "victory" and "defeat -- ie withdrawal" end the gravy train. Staying the course keeps it running.

[krispos42]

121. Could be disturbingly true

He's making a running sore that will affect and weaken the region longer and longer every month it goes unresolved. And for every American that dies, 200 Iraqis die and 400 are displaced. Neighboring countries are trying to absorb the people fleeing Iraq, which occupies their police, military, and financial resources.

What he's not doing is reducing the social, political, religious, or economic causes that breed terrorists, and isn't making foreign governments happy about helping fight the global war on terror. Both of which are far more important than simply dead Iraqis.

[NMMNG]

152. I wouldn't be surprised

Much like in 1984, there are those who see never ending war as a huge money making machine. :scared:

[ClintonTyree]

165. And then he drops the entire mess into the lap.....

of a new President in 2009 and walks away from the Mess'o'potamia he created, packs the family up and moves to his hill-top fortress in Paraguay. Let some other sucker worry about cleaning up his mess, he's done it his entire life. Meanwhile, the Bush coffers have grown to overflowing and he can live out the rest of his life clearing brush in his new adopted country of Paraguay. It's every demented faux-Texas cowboy's dream.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

108. Look for a national and international whirl wind tour

I can see the T-shirts now.






The George W. Bush

World Wide Global Tour

2006-07

When the tour comes to your country
agree or die.

[tritsofme]

14. At least Nixon made "peace with honor" his mantra

when he realized there was nothing further he could do.

Bush just pisses blindly into the wind.

[Disturbed]

15. The Dems have a way to end the US Occupation.

They won't end it because they want to win the Pres. seat in '08.

[barbtries]

46. which is exactly why they

better end it.

[Warren Stupidity]

72. Nixon expanded the damn war

across the region and was personally responsible for the deaths of at least 1,000,000 more people while he mouthed peace with honor and attempted to claim victory through airpower. The war did not end until Congress cut funding.

[roamer65]

149. Never fear, Iran and Saudi Arabia will get sucked into this yet.

[LynnTheDem]

16. And 2 of 3 Americans support the ISG report. Yet again, bush is out of touch.

In a new NEWSWEEK poll, Americans say they back the Baker-Hamilton report and want President Bush to alter his course in Iraq.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16122983/site/newsweek

[PassingFair]

63. Article fails to mention how many Americans actually READ it.

Seems like none.

Funny poll.

[katsy]

154. You could probably hand people a comic book...

and they'd take that over bush war policies any day.

The monkey has lost all credibility. The people are saying anything is better than the path bush is forcing this country to take.

[The Wizard]

134. Bush is out of touch?

He's batshit crazy. Some where there's a straight jacket and some powerful medication waiting for him. Does The Hague have trials for the criminally insane?

[Selatius]

17. Some good can come from bad: If you own defense stocks, this means you make more money.

You'd be "making cake" while the rest of the economy is hemorrhaging jobs and money and soldiers are hemorrhaging blood.

War...it's good for your portfolio.

[cassiepriam]

19. The intervention didn't work, The US is the dysfunctional family from hell.

[opihimoimoi]

20. So Bush Slaps Baker/Hamiltion and the ISG Findings...what a Dufus...Victory in his ASS

[bigtree]

21. What Bush really wants from the ISG and Americans,

is another chance to pretend he's working toward some sort of "victory" in Iraq, and to recast himself as a commander in a "long war" against 'terrorists' everywhere instead of accepting the apt label of a disgraced loser who manufactured a diversion from the hunt in Afghanistan for the original suspects in the 9-11 attacks.

my take:
Bush Still Looking For A 'Way Forward' In The Face Of His Iraq Failure
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2888108

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[WiseButAngrySara]

22. Of course DimWit's use of the word 'victory' was no accident,

as it is clearly anything BUT! And people are waking up to the fact that it never will be a 'victory' unless we "cut and run" like cowards! :sarcasm:

[Roland99]

23. What a rebel that Lil' Bush is. A big "fuck you, Poppy" from the Frat-Boy pResident.

:eyes:

[deminks]

24. Yet, he won't define 'victory'. "And, it's one, two, three...

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam;
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on generals, let's move fast;
Your big chance has come at last.
Gotta go out and get those reds —
The only good commie is the one who's dead
And you know that peace can only be won
When we've blown 'em all to kingdom come.

Well, come on Wall Street, don't move slow,
Why man, this is war au-go-go.
There's plenty good money to be made
By supplying the Army with the tools of the trade,
Just hope and pray that if they drop the bomb,
They drop it on the Viet Cong.

And it's one, two, three,
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

Well, come on mothers throughout the land,
Pack your boys off to Vietnam.
Come on fathers, don't hesitate,
Send 'em off before it's too late.
Be the first one on your block
To have your boy come home in a box.

And it's one, two, three
What are we fighting for ?
Don't ask me, I don't give a damn,
Next stop is Vietnam.
And it's five, six, seven,
Open up the pearly gates,
Well there ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! we're all gonna die.

The military should be saying, been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

[JCMach1]

25. Dems may have to de-authorize funding if this occurs

IF he follows such an insane idea...

[TroglodyteScholar]

27. They won't do it...

...they believe (perhaps correctly?) that defunding the war would be viewed by the public as direct action against the troops. Dems may want the war to wind down, but they won't go so far as to sacrifice their tenuous grasp on the legislature or their chances at the office of the executive in '08.

[B Calm]

26. He knows this war is lost. He's setting the dems up to make them

look as they are the ones who is responsible for losing the war.

[kentuck]

28. Bingo..

He will accomplish that by making it a "bi-partisan" responsibility.

[Sparkly]

30. Yup.

And remember, it was the Peaceniks who are responsible for losing Vietnam. :sarcasm:

They're spinning it the same way, I agree.

[alarimer]

31. The definition of insanity

Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

This moron needs to be impeached. He is too incompetent to tie his own shoelaces.

[Giant Robot]

33. So I find this confusing

I mean with so many of Bush 41's cronies on this commission, it would make sense that the White House would have gotten advance word of what was going to go down, and been able to be better prepared for it. This just seems like a big scramble to me. And also with so many of the senior Bush's cronies there, it would also stand to reason that the White House would have been more influential shall we say in the crafting of it. Curiouser and curiouser.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. "Insisting" on "victory" is like insisting the sun rise in the west.

It brings visions of King Canute attempts to reverse the tides. Or Caligula flinging rocks into the English Channel from Gaul to show he had "conquered" Britain.

[screembloodymurder]

35. IMPEACH THE S.O.B. !

Then convict his ass.

[Mojambo]

55. Digging in on Iraq is what is going to lead to impeachment.

Republicans will turn on him big time now.

[calimary]

101. Yep. Gordon Smith's only the first one.

Slouching toward their "Goldwater Moment."

[whistle]

36. Cripes, Dubya and the entire Bush clan are total disfunctional misfits

....see how Maureen Dowd sized up the situation earlier this week:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3010141

[ananda]

47. The question is..

.. WHY are the Bushes our LEADERS????

I think it says more about our country and its people than it does about the Bushes.
They are obviously sociopathic greedmongers who care nothing about ordinary
people. Their hearts are truly shut down.

But we the people are allowing this, and it began with Reagan. It's as though we
can get mesmerized by a certain kind of leadership aura instead of seeing and
discerning the substance behind it. It's that substance that matters, and in the case
of both the Bushes and the country, it spells money and corporate hegemony over
many many people.

Sue

[whistle]

66. I suppose, although it is possible to cheat and win also....

....and as the saying goes, "You can not cheat an honest man, and those who have been cheated are almost always reluctant to admit their foolhardiness."

[creeksneakers2]

107. I agree

I think the turning point was when Reagan asked, "Are YOU better off than you were four years ago?" Suddenly individuals were more important than the group. Feeling powerful was more important than being virtuous. Intellectual slovenliness replaced thoughtful discourse, and the guy who could mesmerize with an entertaining personality was preferred over the guy who told the truth. We are as the corporations want us, divided and gluttonous.

Elections now are contests for who can come up with the easiest sounding solutions to the problems the last guy left behind.

[pdxmom]

37. This is extremely scary and telling to me:

"...small group inside the National Security Council is now racing to come up with alternatives to the panel's ideas."

They're racing to come up with alternatives???? They don't already have alternatives? Someone in the media needs to parse this. It's absolute proof that there is no plan other than the "stay the course" failed policy that's been in place from the beginning.

This administration is stuck in Plan A, with no Plan B, much less a C, D, or E. No contingencies. No understanding or planning. I didn't think things could be worse, but it looks like it's going to be.

[livingonearth]

61. I thought the same thing

This is proof there has been no plan, other than Bush and his gang being worshiped as liberators of Iraq.

[calimary]

109. Hey! Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[emanymton]

39. Pa_lease Define VICTORY. What Does Win Mean?! What

does it look like when someone says 'We Won?'

I mean:

USA went to Iraq to stop Hussein from getting WMD - done.

USA went to Iraq to have regime change - done

USA went to Iraq to capture Hussein - done

USA went to Iraq to give people democracy - done

USA went to Iraq to change Middle East - done.


So with all this done, why is USA in Iraq? _For_ whom is USA fighting?


Bush Lied. People Died. Media Cheered.

[tavalon]

40. Is it impeachment time yet? n/t

[Clarkie1]

41. Congress should endorse this report now!

If not now, then when we have the power in January to pass a resolution endorsing it!

It's our strongest political tool to use against the administration!

[Warren Stupidity]

73. No they should not. It is a plan for more war. nt.

[Beetwasher]

42. Sooprise Sooprise

n/t

[HughMoran]

44. Didn't take them long to dig in and explain away this report

This is not surprising knowing Bush's inability to accept failure.

[w4rma]

45. The war's funding will have to be cut, or else this guy will have to be impeached. (nt)

[jmowreader]

83. That's an either-or proposition?

Both need to happen.

We need to reduce our troop strength to about 10,000 soldiers. Right now. All engineers--combat engineers, bridge crewmen, carpenters, plumbers and electricians.

Leave them there to fix what Bush broke, and get everyone else home.

Then impeach Shrub and all his minions. Make Jimmy Carter president. Just get Bush OUT of there.

[w4rma]

87. To deal with the Iraq War it is an either-or proposition. Not for the long term honor and stability

of our own nation, however.

[jmowreader]

90. No, it's an AND proposition

Funding for the war must be cut off so that the Pentagon will start getting the troops out of there.

AND Bushco must be impeached for lying America into it.

[IWantAChange]

48. GWB's sacrifice of our troops for his 'place' in History is criminal.

Dubyha's ego driven reluctance to accept anything short of the NEVER DEFINED 'victory' in Iraq is costing the lives and limbs of our young men and women in uniform - have you no shame Sir - have you no shame? I think the country is as divided as it has ever been and that is not a good thing at this point in time - unfortunately GWB may give America no choice other than impeachment as a means to stop this insanity.

[Dudley_DUright]

49. So much for the "Intervention", so let's try another "I" word...

...Impeachment.

[stevietheman]

52. I submit that we're a couple steps closer to a military coup, and if not that,

the GOP will be destroyed as a party.

National convulsions are a sad thing to watch, but nevertheless, I'm popping my popcorn right now.

[Porcupine]

156. If I were * I would stay far away from armed veterans

of the Iraq war. Particularly those with comrades still on station in Iraq. I can see a few guys taking out Bush for the benefit of their buddies in the field.

A defeated army is a far more terrible thing than a victorious one. Ask the Germans or the Japanese. Hell ask the Iraqi's.

[Straight Shooter]

53. As always, hostile to the truth, and the troops be damned.

bush is clinically pathological.

[leftofthedial]

56. it is impossible for junior to follow the ISG

to have his "presidency" forever labeled as a failure that poppy had to come fix and what's worse to grin and bear a public butt-swatting from uncle Jimmy . . . unthinkable.

no way. not THIS king. THIS king will go down trying to put Humpty together again.

[Not Sure]

57. Jesus H Christ

Can I get a coup for this dickhead, please? And just before that happens, somebody take Cheney hunting in the "Enter the Dragon" hall of mirrors.

[calimary]

110. Welcome to DU!

:thumbsup:

[mdmc]

59. Father knows best. Poppy curb your chimp!

:kick:

[amandabeech]

62. I think that what the Saudis said to the summoned Cheney

has something to do with this.

My guess is that the bottom line of Cheney's audience with the King was protect the Sunni Arabs or we'll cut off your oil and pay others to protect them.

The ISG plan is not a Sunni Arab protection plan.

[livingonearth]

64. Is this not exactly the kind of thing impeachment is for?

[tridim]

76. Of course not silly

It's for smearing good Presidents who are capable of having consensual sex.

The way I see it, if Bush isn't impeached for these obviously impeachable offenses, we might as well just strip it from the constitution and replace it with a citizen driven "recall" process.

[calimary]

102. It's what IMPEACHMENT is SUPPOSED to be for.

Punishing and potentially removing a president for criminal acts. It was cheapened and trashed during the Clinton years by a partisan vendetta of prissy holier-than-thou sore losermen. They've left the very concept of IMPEACHMENT so damaged that it, too, needs to be rehabilitated - by being invoked for a truly logical and reasonable implementation. Not some pissant smackdown because you couldn't get anything else on the guy except that he couldn't keep his zipper closed. Rehabilitating IMPEACHMENT itself is a worthy reason, all by itself, for setting it in motion here. THESE truly are high crimes and misdemeanors that beg for the ultimate punishment to a president. This is no pissant kangaroo court going after him for reasons that are, at best, pathetically cockamamie. This is real. And deadly serious.

I don't think IMPEACHMENT is AN answer. I think it's THE ONLY answer. Especially if everybody else (or at least a VAST, VAST majority) demands an end to the war, and he's the ONLY thing standing in the way.

[Martin Eden]

65. "The president by definition knows more than any of those people who are serving on these panels."

"The president's obligations sometimes require him to be very lonely"

Geez, it must be VERY lonely for someone with such superior knowledge.

I needed a good laugh this morning.

Thanks:D

[Sugar Smack]

67. "Victory"? Why do I just want to throw up?

:grr: :nuke:

[B Calm]

71. Impeachment is the only answer. Sacrificing our troops just to blame the dems

for losing his war is treason!

[peekaloo]

68. America held hostile.

a Bu$hism from Christmas past that is all too true.

[Warren Stupidity]

69. Hmmm... the game gets interesting.

So the ISG publishes its plans to stay the course for at least two more years, allowing the Bush administration to defer the official defeat until after 1-20-09, and the Cabal claims to be opposed to exactly what the Cabal is trying to do. I call bullshit.

Does the Democratic congress now get suckered into demanding that the Dumbass regime implement this idiocy?

[PittPoliSci]

70. they just don't get it do they?

[Botany]

77. So they are going to write their own report now?

Gee, I wonder how that is going to turn out?

:sarcasm:

White House Iraqi Report:

All problems in Iraq are because of Bill Clinton, Iran, al Qaeda,
and Syria. The bush plan of "Freedom & Democracy" is doing
great and victory is real close.

[krispos42]

96. Probably. Of course, it means another 18 months of work

So we should have a workable plan in place by, um, election day 2008, by which both the ISG and the fictional White House report will be overtaken by events, like an Iranian invasion of Iraq.

[thereismore]

78. I think this means there is a real danger of a military coup in the U.S.

The realists in the Pentagon now know he is mad, and might try to end it.

[krispos42]

98. That is very scary. What do we do if that happens?

This kind of thinking makes my stomach crawl. It's blatantly unconstitutional, or is it? Do we protest against the coup? Do we take up arms? What if the military fractures, with some siding with Bush and some with the coup leader? Will this be the start of another civil war?

Guess I'd better start stockpiling Spam and toilet paper.

[roamer65]

129. As long as the interim president isn't hard right wing...

...and there is an absolute guarantee of 2008 elections. But I doubt it will happen, we're stuck with Raisinbrain for 2 more years. Imagine being stuck with Hoover from 1929-1933.:puke:

[neebob]

79. Wait a minute ...

pressure al-Maliki to rein in the violence. That's the strategy?! Do they miss Saddam or what? And yet, somehow, the more he's seen as a U.S. puppet, that's a bad thing.

I was hoping for something more along the lines of, "Bye-bye, we're leaving," that included troops and contractors. What I expected was a con job that sort of sounded like that.

Never mind El Chimpo's reaction; none of these people give a flying fuck if everyone knows they're lying.

[struggle4progress]

82. More delusions and hallucinations from our psychotic Decider

[pdxmom]

86. Bush's continued insistence that "he's the decider" and "he's the

commander-in-chief" tells me all I need to know. No matter what anyone suggests, like an obstinate child, he's going to do the opposite. Based on several things I've read, whomever talks to Bush last in private, be it Cheney or Rice, that is the way he goes. He doesn't know how to define victory, it's just a really cool word to him.

We cannot survive another 2 years of this mentality. Not just our troops in Iraq, but domestically as well. Right now, he's on the ropes and forced to focus on Iraq, but give it a month or so, and he's going to do something dire on the domestic front. I think it will have to do with more curtailment of our freedoms, such as censorship of the Internet.

Congress can try the bipartisanship path, but they better keep sharp eyes out for that hand Bushco have in the cookie jar.

[mnhtnbb]

89. Time for Nancy Pelosi to tell Bush Congress wants to see his plan/timetable for getting out of Iraq

OR impeachment is back on the table.

[Eugene]

91. Reuters: Bush urged to implement Iraq report ideas (or lose consensus)

Bush urged to implement Iraq report ideas
10 Dec 2006 18:34:00 GMT
Source: Reuters

By Mohammed Abbas

MANAMA, Dec 10 (Reuters) - U.S. President George W. Bush should implement
recommendations by the bipartisan Iraq Study Group soon, or face losing any
consensus it has generated, delegates to a security forum in Bahrain said
on Sunday.

The report gave Bush a platform to work with Democrats to launch a change
in tactics for dealing with the worsening chaos in Iraq, but that time would
be limited before 2008 presidential polls and the return of partisan squabbles,
they said.

"Contrary to some assumptions that we have a year or more for holding this
process ... my own assessment is we have 4-5 months," former U.S. Secretary
of Defense William Cohen said.

-snip-

"The report ... extends the life of a lame duck president at least until the
summer of 2007. That buys time for serious policy to be formulated for course
correction," said Patrick Cronin of the International Institute for Strategic
Studies (IISS).

-snip-

Full article: http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L10590103.htm

[man4allcats]

94. Can we impeach now? n/t

[Pyrzqxgl]

118. We hear that word IMPEACH. What about RECALL

Wouldn't hundreds of thousands of official signatures calling for Bush's removal from office stir up something?

[man4allcats]

133. It might, but I think it makes more sense to

add one's name to a petition that's already circulating and thereby support that initiative. Impeachment exists as a remedy to deal with just such marauders as Bush and Cheney. They both need to go, and the sooner the better.

[demo_not_full]

106. He isn't THAT dumb you know ...

It looks like Bush is being one-track minded on his quest for "victory" but this is unlike any other war president who had to stand "dependent" or else get a bullet in his back. He's not gonna "appear" to give up for our sake until the really bad traitors that hide in the shadows get threatened by the people's actions. Many great men have said that even Congress will never do what the people will. That's what it'll take to get these people out. Impeachment of at least 3.

[calimary]

112. Welcome to DU!

Glad you're here!

[librechik]

111. a president born to be Baseball Commissioner

good lord. what a moron.

[Imagevision]

113. It really seems that Bush is testing Pelosi and the new house & senate powers...!

which is the smart thing to do, how else would junior know how far to push...??

[Tiggeroshii]

114. Something tells me we'll be seeing a lot of flip flopping for the next couple years...

way to finish the term

[Yukari Yakumo]

145. No, we won't

We all know how Dumdum stands. When he's made up his (puny little) mind, he will never change it... no matter how wrong his ideas are clearly proven.

The only way he'll be stopped is if he is forced from office.

[blogslut]

116. Dear "W" sycophants, enablers and National Security Council...

Cut him loose. Your boy is dead weight. If you don't do it now, you'll go down with him. Take three steps back and tell the world, "Bush stands alone". Save yourselves.

[Jose Diablo]

117. This is Rove

He will be the next to be shown the door, and junior won't be saying a GD thing about it either.

[xxqqqzme]

138. poppy fired his fat ass

before - I suppose he can do it again.

[DarkTirade]

123. The white house has taken the report hostile?

[PegDAC]

125. Their collective mind

is made up. Don't go confusing them with facts.
:sarcasm: :eyes:

[williesgirl]

128. That's it - cut funding now and let's see him wage war without it.

[roamer65]

130. It's really sad to see all of this, but Americans did let this...

chimpanzee back into the WH, election fraud or not in 2004. Let the country have 2 more years of him to "think on it".

[roamer65]

141. Imagine what the 2008 Rethug convention will be like...

if this chimp stays in office. It will bw worse than the 1968 Democratic one in Chicago.:evilgrin:

Hell, I may even go.

[wake.up.america]

143. I have such thoughts as well. This would have not happened had the US not...

allowed Bush to be "re-elected".

But on the other hand, neither Iraq nor America deserve such a fate.

Hopefully, America has learned a very painful lesson.

[graywarrior]

131. We are now all the characters in Animal Farm.

[DallasNE]

135. You Can Smear Lipstick On This Pig

All you want but you can't smear it on thick enough to hide the fact that the Bush administration policy on Iraq remains stubbornly stay the course.

Not only that, but the President and Prime Minister in Iraq are also firmly in stay the course mode.

The only way to get the policy changed is to get new people making that policy, both in America and Iraq.

[Presidentcokedupfratboy]

139. Bush is the winner of ....

The Worst President Ever Trophy....

in fact he is reitring it. How could anyone else be as bad at "presidentin' " as the Clueless one?

[Redstone]

140. "Victory," as like fucking specifically how? I've not heard a definition yet.

Redstone3

[ChaoticSilly]

144. Temper tantrum

Sounds like Junior is having a temper tantrum & needs a time out. Just so happens we have a perfect place in The Hague where he can sit quietly and think about his behavior.

[tlsmith1963]

148. He Has to Go

If anything proves that he has to go, GWB's refusal to go along with the ISG proves it. He is not a king. He is supposed to answer to the American people. I guess he doesn't even care about the opinions of people in his own party now. Impeach the bastard, *now*! :mad:

[Canuckistanian]

150. My first thought is - where's Cheney on this?

Does Darth Crashcart share this opinion? And if not, then the little Emperor is off his nut.

Think about it. This is the perfect time for Cheney to declare Shrub unfit for duty and invoke the 25th Amendment.

:scared:

[lonestarnot]

151. The only way we are going to end this shit is impeach this fucker.

The investigating better conclude tomorrow!

[roamer65]

153. Damn str8!

[savemefromdumbya]

155. wtf!

[illinoisprogressive]

157. I use to see Impeachment as Improbable

but, now it's a must. There is no way this world can handle two more years of this jack a-- lalaland ideas and living in a fantasy world while the earth burns.
he is not only incomptent and callous he is dangerous.
The democratic congress muct impeach Jr. for the sake of the whole world. now!

[The_Casual_Observer]

158. He will come around. This is just face saving.

The writing is on the wall.

[B Calm]

166. Face saving = Placing blame for losing his war on democratic party

[Counciltucky]

159. "Impractical or unrealistic"

Sort of like going into Iraq in the first place...

Well it's astoundingly clear that Bush & Co. aren't going to change their modus operandi anytime soon, even despite a new Congress coming.

Sounds like he needs another wake-up call once the new Congress is sworn in.

[Savageson]

160. News Flash

Sorry to stick a pin in it but the troops wont be coming home any time soon.The truth is that any government we set up in Iraq will be useful to us only so long as we are there to keep it under close supervision. The instant we leave, any government we leave behind will divide up among the various factions and join in a general bloodletting. With the sole exception of the Kurds, each faction has foreign sponsors and those sponsors are our enemies. When the killing finally stops, Iraq, or at least large parts of what used to be Iraq, will be securely under the influence of one or more of our enemies and the effort to win our Arab and Persian War will be crippled.

[Bluebear]

163. Welcome to DU savageson. nt

[Bridget Burke]

168. "effort to win our Arab and Persian War"....

Which war is that?

Since you're such a big strong guy, when are you enlisting?

[Savageson]

161. More bad news

We are stuck in Iraq and we have to face that fact before we can have any hope of improving the situation there. Increasing our focus on training Iraqis and decreasing our focus on combat operations would be moving in exactly the wrong direction.

[nolabels]

164. Victory = intransigent

On a more intense or maybe just more obvious level the mental health clinics are chocked full of people who think like this. The only difference is their 'needing to work things out' doesn't endanger millions of other lives.

[in_cog_ni_to]

170. I hope Baker's satisfied with himself. HE is responsible for installing that psycho

and now we are the ones who get to suffer the results of his fucked up intervention in Florida's 2000 election. See what happenes when you lie, cheat, and steal? It comes back to bite you in the ass every time. KARMA. Too bad the entire WORLD has to suffer through Baker's MAJOR fuck up.

[Jose Diablo]

171. This crazy muther has the football and the nuke codes

that greaseball Scalia should be drawn and quartered for not reclusing himself when Baker came a knocking.

[classysassy]

172. Victory vs Impeachment

We the people want impeachment.