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Is the Free Market dead? And have Conservatives killed it?

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ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 01:40 PM
Original message
Is the Free Market dead? And have Conservatives killed it?
"If Iran takes over Iraq and then fosters a revolution inside Saudi Arabia ... and gets control of all the oil and says we're not selling to the USA, we are going to level that country, because you ... need gasoline to live."
- Bill O'Reilly
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2875537

Those aren't Free Market values. If Iran has the oil, then Iran has the oil, and if they say no to you, that's just the Free Market, remember RW'ers? They have the law of supply and demand at their side. I guess the Free Market isn't so cool when you don't have all the power anymore, right?

And how about No Bid Contracts and letting Corporations write the bills, do these violate the principles of the Free Market too?

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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. O'Liely is insane
and this quotation is another example of his insanity.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Socialism for oil-based businesses.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. That which has never lived can not ever be killed!
<snip>
The Myth of Free-Trade Britain
by John V.C. Nye*

"Free trade should mean just that: free trade, with all goods admitted without duties, quotas, or restrictions. That was not British policy. They removed most tariffs but mostly on items in which they had a comparative advantage."

March 3, 2003

In the two and a half centuries since Adam Smith first articulated the basic case for free trade, no event has been more significant than the British conversion to open markets in the nineteenth century. In the fable that is now conventional wisdom, nineteenth century Britain turned its back on protection and chose to open its markets to the world. A reform-minded British leadership, preaching the new gospel of free trade pushed their European confreres to open up their own markets, eventually ushering in an age of expansive commerce the likes of which the world had never seen—a precursor of late twentieth century globalization that was in many ways more open than anything before or since.

As the story is usually told, British free trade came in the 1840s after a bitter political struggle to repeal the Corn Laws—a name given to a series of agricultural tariffs and quotas designed to keep farm prices high. This was quickly followed by rapid and dramatic reductions in duties on hundreds of imports. By the 1850s, all but a handful of commodities were admitted to Britain free of all duties. Sounds good, until you look closely at what products remained subject to high duties: those handful of items were the most contentious and some of the most highly taxed items that historically had been at the core of the mercantile debate in British history. In previous centuries they formed a large and significant fraction of British trade. <snip>

Indeed, it was not British unilateral tariff reduction that moved the world to freer trade. Despite the belief that is still common today that British exhortation opened the doors to European free trade in the late 19th century, it was the 1860 Treaty of Commerce, promoted by the Napoleon III and concluded between Britain and France, that really ushered in the age of nineteenth century "globalization". British demands for unilateral tariff reduction usually fell on deaf ears.

Doctrinaire free traders and economic theorists opposed the use of commercial treaties since they felt that unilateral reductions were the most efficient policies for all countries. While correct in the abstract, such claims did little to overcome political resistance to trade liberalization in most countries. On the other hand, unwillingness on the part of the British to lower wine tariffs killed early trade negotiations with both France and Spain. When the British finally decided to moderate their wine tariffs, Britain and France successfully concluded a treaty in 1860 which dramatically changed the landscape of European commerce. Politicians throughout Europe—who had till then resisted all pressure to liberalize trade—suddenly became fearful of being left out of a trade pact that united the two great European powers. The result was that the other major European powers quickly signed bilateral treaties with Britain and France as well. <MORE>

http://www.econlib.org/library/Columns/y2003/Nyefreetrade.html


<other links>
http://www.thecornerhouse.org.uk/item.shtml?x=51960

http://www.christian-aid.org.uk/news/media/pressrel/040923p.htm

http://www.irregulartimes.com/freemarketsystem.html
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Exactly.
There has never been a completely free market, and there never will.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Exploitation and slavery are generally the result of "free market"
...policies followed by some form of long term imperialistic conquests and the boot of tyranny on the workers in the enslaved colonies. This is exactly what the neo-cons envision as their PNAC was to come under full implementation. These people are not defeated, they are only pulling back into the shadows waiting for yet another chance to jump and realize their nightmare of dominance under some new concept of "free market" horse shit. What about the concept of mutual gain and assistance?
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. There's no such thing as the Free Market
It's a pipedream, at least until human beings grow up and learn how to treat each other fairly. What they call the "free market" now more closely resembles a slave market, run largely by US-backed global corporations in their own interests.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
6. Yes, O'lielly is truly insane
and doesn't know what he's talking about. For one thing, Saudi Arabia would never follow an Iranian revolution. They are as different as night and day. Iran, as we know, is Shiite and Saudi Arabia is wahhabist Sunni. You can't have an Islamic Revolution in what is already the most strict religious country in the Middle East, or even the world. Moreover, Mecca is in Saudi Arabia; all the Sunni countries would fight to the death, man, woman, and child, before letting a Shiite government take over.

O'Lielly is nuts.
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PVnRT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-07-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Pretty much, people like O'Reilly are imperialists
A true free marketeer would argue that our interference in other countries (save for cases of actual national self-defense) by the government interferes with the global free market.
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