Do y'all remember when Jimmy Carter told us to turn our thermostats

[tavalon]

down and wear sweaters during the energy crisis in the seventies? He was soundly derided but here I am, sitting in my wool sweater with the thermostat set a good five degrees below what I'd like it at and I'm grateful I can even do that, with the skyrocketing energy prices. But you don't see the shrub sitting around with his wool sweater on, do you?

Just an idle thought as I watch the temperature drop into the single digits, breaking all records around here.

[Tanuki]

1. Yes, and didn't he put solar panels on the White House

which Reagan took down? And in light of subsequent events, the Arab oil embargo, which led to gasoline shortages and long lines at the gas stations, and which caused widespread popular discontent with Carter's presidency and led to the installation of the Reagan/Bush Sr. regime, seems pretty "convenient", dontcha think? I don't think people at the time realized the extent the Bushes were willing to use their oil interests to manipulate and screw the American people for their own gain.

I'm going to turn down my thermostat and put on a sweater today out of respect and admiration for Jimmy, and as my small part to avert global warming.

[sabbat hunter]

8. the arab oil embargo

happened in 1973. before carter took office.

oil prices went up late in Carter's presidency due to the regime change in Iran, the hostage crisis.

[Tanuki]

13. I was thinking of the 1979 oil crisis

You are correct, embargo was not the right term, but there were long gas lines in 1979, and probable manipulation by oil companies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis

[sabbat hunter]

29. since i was alive and remember those lines

the long lines were less due to manipulation and more because of fear. when the shah was overthrown, Iran, who had previously sold us a lot of oil annually, stopped suddenly. It took a while to get other OPEC and Non-OPEC sources of imported oil. People were afraid there would be no oil so everyone ran out to fill up their cars. I even remember the odd even rationing that took place for a while.

some of the price hikes of course was due to oil companies taking advantage of this fear, but for a time there was actually shortages without manipulation.

[FogerRox]

46. I aint buying what U R sellin, there..... no sir-ree

"the long lines were less due to manipulation and more because of fear."

[hfojvt]

50. Why not? The same thing happened after 911.

That afternoon hundreds of people ran out to top off their tanks before gas jumped $2 a gallon. United we stood - in line to get the last of the cheap gas.

[tavalon]

62. I didn't go to get gas that day

I went to give blood and had to wait a couple of hours because there were hundreds of other people (at just that small blood bank) with the same idea. There was a lot of bad that eventually came out of that day but I'll never forget that my fellow Americans immediately thought of going to help their bethren.

[rman]

30. And US domestic oil production reaching maximum capacity at the time

and declining ever since (as predicted decades earlier), has nothing to do with it.
OPEC's role in that crisis was opportunistic; they would not have had that opportunity if there had been no production peak of US domestic oil.

[mykpart]

66. I go back further than that.

I remember when everyone ridiculed Lyndon Johnson for walking thru the White House turning out lights when no one was in the room. Too bad people thought conservation of energy was so silly back then. I suppose that's where Cheney got his attitudes about it.

[BOSSHOG]

2. Its a good idea year round

We dress warmly in the house in the winter, although our in South Mississippi doesn't amount to much. And our electric bill reflects it. Same in the summer. We keep the thermostat no lower then 80 during the day, turn it down a little at night, keep the curtains closed and get a nice electric bill year round. President Carter was a statesman, a gentleman and a human being. bush couldn't carry his sweater or his jock strap.

[sendero]

3. He was right then..

... he is righter now, and he'll be way more right in the future.

Americans are going to have to learn to live using less energy.

[Cha]

64. Carter was way ahead

of his time.

[Debau2005]

4. My new townhouse has a programmable thermostat

I love it, and recommend them. I set it once and never have to touch it. I like it colder at night, and a little warmer to wake up. It does it for me. I have noticed a huge difference in both my gas and electric bills.

[Pawel K]

40. And if your house doesn't have one they are easy to install and fairly cheap

I got mine when I moved into my apartment for $20 a lowes, it took 15 minutes to install.

I recommend this to everyone.

[itsmesgd]

5. Carter in 2008

Not Jimmy, but his son Jack Jr.
If we trumped * 41 with chimpy 43 does that mean that Jack Carter could do better than Jimmy? If not, I think that it's worth a shot. We couldn't do much worse. If we can get the White House for 8 years just think of all the bastards that will either die or be too old to run and talk anymore.

[tavalon]

7. Honestly, I don't know much about Jack

but if we go with the theory that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, that might just be a real good idea!

[itsmesgd]

10. from what I know he's very similar to his dad

He lives in Nevada, he's alo like his dad a farmer and scientist. He's religious-but not a fundie. He is avidly pro-environment (he has this idea that we need clean air and water). He ran for senate this past election, but was narrowly defeated. He is getting his feet wet in the political arena. I just hope that he does not turn away from the pres by the negativity.

[catmandu57]

35. I've got nothing against Jack

but, I'm bloody sick of political dynasties. I could go the rest of my life without them.

[Dick Diver]

38. Not to be picky, but

Carter lost by 14 points in NV.

[valerief]

20. Very clever. And he may even be evangelical like his dad. That's

normally not a good thing, especially from what we've experienced from our evangelical lovin' Congress and WH, but Carter was and is a NORMAL person, despite being evangelical. He never took his religion to unconstitutional lengths.

[havocmom]

22. Carter split with the old church when it went so negative

His book Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis is worth a read.

edited for clarity

[DemonFighterLives]

6. Jimmy was so far ahead of his time

Live in peace, what a concept. Save energy, what another concept. I know something was up with OPEC and the oil crunch and also have to wonder how the interest rate just happened to go to 18-20%. This all was not the cause of the president, but dark forces that later October Surprised him right out of office.
Imagine a presidential hopeful going through the bsck channels to undercut a sitting president. See Poppy and his buddy William Casey.

I'm warming up just getting riled here! :mad: :argh:

[sabbat hunter]

9. interest rates

interest rates skyrocketed because we had very high inflation and the federal reserve lead by Paul Volker and was appointed by carter because of his tough views on battling inflation. inflation and interest rates actually peaked under reagan in 81, before finally coming down.

stagflation started under nixon and ford.

not everything is a conspiracy ;)

[DemonFighterLives]

14. You seem well versed in that stuff

I'm not actually calling it a conspiracy, but Carter being a smart man has this as one of his worst legacies. I propose that the OPEC alliance which caused oil prices to rise also spurred on the inflation.
The actual rates make no sense compared to when dubby was in office, interest rates couldn't get any lower.
Explain to me please the reasons that inflation took off like that?

Of course compared to today the chimp stood idly by while gas prices have doubled under his lame watch.
Thanks in advance!

[sabbat hunter]

27. inflation rates

the rate of inflation was already fairly high under ford (thus his W.I.N. or Whip Inflation Now campaign). nixon imposed wage and price controls. part of the reason for these high inflation rates was from the 1973 arab oil embargo as a result of the yom Kippur war. Part was from us trying to have guns and butter during the Viet Nam war. There usually is no single reason inflation goes up but a combination of reasons.

interest rates didnt really plummet until after 9/11 when the fed tried to spur the economy. prior to that the rates were low, but not historically low.

also remember despite the current inflation rates they are still far lower than the double digit rates we saw in the 70's thru the early 80's.

[Greyhound]

54. The cabal has merely replaced inflation with devaluation, which is really

the same thing. Changing the calculations and removing the baseline makes it look like there is little inflation, and that is enough to put the sheeple back to sleep. We still have to go through the same transformation in our culture that was needed then, it will just be worse now.

They have devalued the dollar by about 40% since they began squatting in the White House, which translates to roughly 8% inflation, add this to the real inflation rate (old base line and calc) of about 8% - 9%, and there really isn't that much difference, except in the public's perception and the media blackout. And we still haven't addressed the root cause, our dependence on oil, at all, in fact it is much worse now than it was then.

[DemonFighterLives]

58. I didn't read your post before I replied

That is what I thought- calculated differently and the chairman of the Fed. just kept cutting interest rates over and over again which didn't help the savings account.

[DemonFighterLives]

57. Thanks

Now hasn't there been some changes in the way inflation is calculated?
Everything I know of has gone up while wages have remained the same or shrunk compared to buying power.
I forgot about the wage and price controls of Nixon. Basically it is unfair to dump the inflation problem on Jimmy's feet.

[sinkingfeeling]

18. There's also a tie-in to paying for the VietNam war in that economic picture.

" Consequently, growing deficits and cuts to politically vulnerable parts of the federal budget marked attempts by Johnson and Nixon to pay for the war in Vietnam. Among the cuts were those to scientific and technical research that could have had long-term benefits; cutting such funding meant slower long-term growth. The deficits also helped spark an inflationary spiral that persisted through the 1970s. This inflation reduced the value of the dollar, a less direct but longer-lasting cost of the Vietnam war."


http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111606L.shtml

Edited to add quote.

[madinmaryland]

11. Uhh, "Conservation is a virtue, not a policy." (R.Cheney, 2001)

:grr:

[tavalon]

63. Ya know

most of the time, I worry about what Cheney is doing behind closed doors but then I speaks up and I just want him to STFU.

[blm]

12. GOP and some media mocked him mercilessly as if he was delusional -

now the GOP controls much more media and the mocking of truthtellers has been intensified. I think the constancy of the attacks on Carter was a the early blueprint for what the GOP does today to those who get in their way.

[Hekate]

65. The Carters were laughed out of DC in one term; it infuriated me

There are still conservatives like my elderly uncle who practically spit at Jimmy Carter's name -- though we honor Pres. Carter here at DU, not everyone remembers him like that, and I can't figure out why.

Yes, he was mocked and derided -- but he was right.

Hekate

[LWolf]

15. It's 8 degrees outside.

This old "manufactured" home is under-insulated.

I haven't even lit the pilot light on the heater; it is so inefficient that you have to bake one half of the house to get heat to the other end, and it costs big $$$$ to keep the place livable.

I have a wood stove keeping the other end of the house reasonably comfortable. I have a small electric heater at my end of the house to keep it comfortable, as long as I dress warmly. The heater adds about $15 a month to the electric bill. If the power goes out, I'll sleep in the room with the wood stove.

[MuseRider]

16. My husband and I were talking about that

just last night. It made so much sense, turn off the lights in buildings etc. Think how much better we would all be if that had continued and fostered a conservation attitude in this country. So freaking sad how many warnings we have had, how much we have been encouraged in deed and thought and how little we paid attention as a country. We should have rejected the change brought about by Reagan, it is hard to believe we just let it all go.

We are too having the big drop here. Record setting 73 yesterday, ice storm coming today. Temp now 30 and dropping. I am going to go settle out on the farm and dig in for the next 24 hours. Break out the long johns for a while and keep that thermostat down. Good for you.

[Felinity]

17. K&R for old times sake

Remember when the President wasn't an incompetent, sociopathic, sadistic, and impotent leader?

Carter got such a bum deal, and in retrospect, part of the forces denying him a second term were probably from the oil industry. They were never friends to conservation; tight oil supplies lead to higher revenues AND higher margins.

[valerief]

19. I do the same damn thing as you now. And, yes, I remember. nt

[The2ndWheel]

21. Right idea, wrong culture

On a mass level, we won't do that unless we have to.

[gollygee]

23. Yeah and I remember stickers that went on lightswitches

reminding us to turn lights out when they weren't being used.

[Ilsa]

24. Yeah, I bet the Residence is kept at 80 so the Twins can go naked.

Just kidding.

But I bet there isn't much sacrifice in keeping the Chimperor comfortable.

I'm getting ready to bring out the heavy duty stuff here, too, and I'm in south Texas. I'll probably have to turn on the heater when the temp outside finally drops below 35 (and inside it drops below 65).

[ItNerd4life]

41. Lol. Thanks for almost making me spit out my lunch,

You caught me by surprise with that one.

[tnlefty]

25. Yep, and the first house that we built had solar panels because of the

tax incentives he enacted to make them more affordable. Then Reagan came along and took those credits away and I've often wondered how much better off we'd be as a nation now if Carter's policies had remained. I think we'd be much further along in the development of alternative energy sources, but that's just my opinion.

The thermostat is on 69 degrees and I just noticed that there isn't a light on in the house. This is easier to do in the south I'm sure.

Stay warm!

[Gregorian]

26. That was Nixon.

Carter was lightyears ahead. I'm not knocking your comment on Carter. But Nixon preceded him in this comment of thermostats.

It was 1973. Just before Christmas. He called for people to turn their thermostats down to 68 degrees. I remember calling them "Nixon degrees". And laughing, because I'd actually have to turn my thermostat up 8 degrees. And thinking, my god people have their houses at 68?!

I'm an energy conscious geek, and always have been.

[QMPMom]

33. I remember once, when Nixon was in office, there was a tour of the

White House given by one of the Nixon Daughters. She said: "We often turn up the air conditioning in summer so we can have fires in the fireplaces."

How energy wasting was that?? Wouldn't put it past * to do the same thing.

[Gregorian]

37. I believe it.

It's the typical American mentality. And I mean American. No other place on earth, except maybe Monaco, do people take being so energy rich for granted.

I feel like the Lone Ranger. Especially now that I moved to this stinking little logging town in Oregon. Oh my god! You wouldn't believe it. It's all monster trucks. And even the little ones have their four cylinder engines pulled, and V8's put in. All without mufflers. And even the tires make more noise than a locomotive. At 3am. It's noxious. They all run around in camo, with binoculars around their necks, and guns in the rear windows. Oh, and they all sound like Bush. I literally mean all of them. I've had my property for sale since being here four months. It's a U-turn back to where I came from. Excuse me. What were we talking about? :)

/extreme frustration blog.

[AbbyR]

28. I can't even turn my heat on

I'm using space heaters for the rooms we're in, but there is no way I can handle a hugh electric bill. My husband died in August and I'm working on getting a higher-paying job, but this winter, I will just have to be very, very chilly.

[rman]

31. Bush has geo-thermal at his 'ranch'

CNN
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/04/12/press.column/index.html
...
And we're not the only ones to learn how to save money by building an energy-efficient home. So did George and Laura Bush, much more recently. Their new ranch home in Crawford, Texas, is heated and cooled by geothermal heat pumps, totally independent of the electricity grid.
...

[Lisa]

59. meanwhile, not a word from him about helping other Americans buy ...

... heat pumps like his, which would save them a lot of money and give a boost to the technology sector. I think he saves something like 75% off his heating/cooling costs. But he wants the rest of us to be gouged by his corporate cronies. Hypocrite!

[radfringe]

32. you mean like this?

[IDemo]

34. Why is it that we feel the need to 'defeat' nature

by keeping the house toasty warm in the winter, and meat locker cold in July? Wouldn't doing exactly the opposite actually make more sense?

[Horse with no Name]

36. I would be VERY interested to know

what the electric bills in the White House were during Carter's Presidency and Bush's reign (adjusted for inflation).
It would most likely be an eye-opener.

[NMDemDist2]

39. these are the coolest things and VERY efficent esp. in smallish rooms

http://www.econo-heat.com/topten.html

edit to add, we are heating our 1300sf mobile home (with it's horribly drafty windows and all) with overnight lows in the 30's with 4 of these (6 if we heat the guest room and den)

if the low is 30 outside, the house stays around 70

we're gonna get slammed with the bad cold front tonight and tomorrow's high is only gonna climb to 36 so we'll see how they do with that

[IDemo]

43. Not my experience at all with Econo-heat, unfortunately

Here is my Epinions review -> http://www.epinions.com/content_234200141444

[NMDemDist2]

44. interesting, but not my experience at all. I had one broken in shipping

and the CS was great, they shipped the replacement the same day and as far as heating goes, we do have ceiling fans that i'm sure help but we've had wonderful luck with them so far

i'm thinking your experience was the exception (or a while ago)

here's DUers talking about them in the Frugal Group

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=353&topic_id=279&mesg_id=279

[IDemo]

56. I'm glad you had better luck than I did

The customer service experience I had would have almost made a good Seinfeld episode (with me barely containing a Kramer-like outburst near the end).

We have found that the commonly available oil filled radiators, at ~$50, offer much better heating quality. Most come with a 600/900/1500 watt capability, and the thermostat is built in. We generally keep it at just 600W, and the 11x12 bedroom remains toasty warm (it was 13 degrees out this morning here).

[Lars39]

45. I've been waiting to see how well they were working for you,AZDem.

Have you had your first electric bill since you've been running them? :hi:

[NMDemDist2]

47. yes and it's about the same but a LOT cheaper then running the

Gas furnace and it's fan I'm sure

tonight will be the true test it's supposed to snow and get down in the teens tonight

here's a pic of the one in the master bath and it works really well :bounce:

[Lars39]

51. I like how they can be painted to match the walls.

We were thinking about putting a few in our basement to start us off.
I hope they work really well for you tonight! :brr:
Thanks for the feedback! :hi:

[NMDemDist2]

53. yeah, geez, I might actually have to finally break out the sweat pant

and heavy socks LOL

in your basement these things should work awesome especially if you have the height to add a ceiling fan

[Lars39]

68. How'd they do with last night's cold weather?

My husband's 6'7"...we can't do a ceiling fan down there. :D

[NMDemDist2]

69. the rule of thumb i'm finding is 40-45 degree difference

it was 18 degrees this morning when I got up before sunrise, the house was 64

it's now 31 degrees outside the house has climbed to 68 and still climbing

so we made it through the coldest nights fine and we've decided to add one more to the great room. the great room is 17x30 and we only have two heaters installed. one more should do the trick i think as they are only rated for 100sf each

i just checked the temp in the back bedroom and it's a balmy 72 in there even with the door left open to help keep the hall and bath warmer

so I'm pleased. it will help a bunch when I get some decent window coverings on these ghastly inefficient windows too

[Greyskye]

48. I've installed 2 of these...

...in my house.

One in a bathroom that was an add-on - they neglected to run the ducts to the new room. I got the small model for this room, along with a programmable timer. If I had it to do over again, I would have bought the large one for this, even though it's a small room. The problem is that I had to mount it to what is basically an outside wall, which econoheat does not recommend.

I got the large unit as a supplemental heat source for the living room, which is a moderate size but has a vaulted sky-light. I also have a timer on this one.

I've found that if I set up the timers to come on a couple hours before I expect people to be in the rooms, it really does make a big difference. The main heater doesn't come on as often, or even at all if I get a fire in the wood stove going. These units (especially if you have ceiling fans that have a 'winter' position) really do provide an economical heating solution if you are able to mount them in appropriate areas - especially if you are able to utilize timers.

The cat gives them 2 paws up as well. She loves sleeping in front of them almost as much as she does a real fire.

[NMDemDist2]

49. exactly. we turn them on when we go to bed or 9PM (whichever comes

first LOL) and when we get up at 5:30 AM the house is still 70+ degrees

I close the door of the bathroom when I shower and between the e-heat and the steam it's cozy as can be in there when I get out of the shower even before the sun comes up (which is always the coldest part of the day) and our bathroom is 17x9

[RubyDuby in GA]

42. I was too young to know then

but the sweater he used when making that plea is on display at The Carter Center. Just toured there again this past September. It's a wonderful library for a wonderful man. www.cartercenter.org They do such wonderful work and they take donations....hint hint

[Greyhound]

52. JC committed the unforgivable sin of telling the plain, un-spun truth

to the amerikan sheeple and he was severely punished for it. This mistake is unlikely to ever be repeated by a politician again. He knew that we would have to make changes in our culture, society, and lifestyle in the new world, and tried to make those changes when they were relatively painless. Now we've put it off for 25 years and it will be much more painful now, but no less inevitable.

So for all you raygun "Democrats" and lurking freepers, your children thank you for making their lives so much harder, so that you could have your last hurrah.:grr:

[chaska]

55. I've stayed true to JimmyC. Lifelong envirovationist here.

[Lisa]

60. going after a man for wearing a sweater and carrying his own luggage

I think that was the first indication I had, that there were some very nasty people out there who were shameless about character assassination. The huge sums thrown away on the Whitewater investigations, and the ugly "Swift-boating", were the logical progression from that.

Carter made some sensible suggestions which saved people money -- not "do as I say, not as I do" platitudes, because he followed them himself, mindful that American taxpayers were footing his heating bill. The GOP goes on so much about "wasteful government spending" that you'd think they would be pleased -- but no! Meanwhile they gush about how "folksy" and "practical" their guy is.

[knitter4democracy]

61. Warm sweaters for everyone!!

I'm working up sweaters and socks and hats for my family, getting warm sheets for all the beds and plenty of blankets, and busy following the kids around to turn off the lights. The thermostat will be lower this winter.

Shawls are good, too. ;)

[sam sarrha]

67. and we turned them down and put on a sweater..!!