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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:05 PM
Original message
So...How did this happen?
How is it this hick was able to ruin our country, human rights, reproductive rights and our future? We are smarter than this. But yet we can't seem to beat any of *'s efforts. WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG??!!!?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, we've sorta... lost a lot of elections...
A lot.
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1620rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. We did not lose. They were stolen! n/t
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Not_So_Right_Wing Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly!
How can we compete when the elections are not fair...?
Tons of headlines about some political mischief involved our party slashing tires, but barely a peep about the obvious stealing of the election in Ohio!
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. And with that kind of thinking...
...why even bother running? Why are you even on this site? Why even post on issues other than election "reform?" You can yell "stolen!" all day. It doesn't make it true, and it doesn't change the fact that we lost. I tire of baseless nonsense.
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. A bunch of things - this is the culmination
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 12:10 PM by debbierlus
1. Laziness

2. Apathy

3. Ignorance

4. Our opponents lies, cheat, steal - they use EVERY dirty trick in the book. Democrats by nature do not work this way. It is akin to being a fight where one person has switchblade in each hand, brass knuckles, and steel toed boots and the other is naked with their hands behind their back.
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I would say that of your list
ignorance is the worst of the lot. I was talking to a man yesterday, good strong Democrat who had no idea what I was talking about when I mentioned election/voter fraud. Never heard of Diebold and this person is pretty active. He thought I was nuts.

Ignorance of the way things are done because they don't really teach these things in school anymore. My youngest took government off of a CD, that was his class. NO discussion.

ACK, it is so infuriating I just can't stand it. Nobody has any clue what is going on. The RWingers are reacting often to the "liberal" media that you and I know are not liberal at all. If they can't tolerate the views of CNN then we are sunk. IGNORANCE, often willfull. I am just sick about this.
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Who was surprised while asleep and...
who doesn't believe in violence, even in self-defense. Who is also suffering from confusion because honesty and non-violence are key elements of the belief structure our steel toe booted opponent's lay claim to. Surely this can't be happening? We've never even locked our doors before--while we didn't always agree with our steel toe booted neighbors, they've never resorted to this. Even if they had, our other neighbor was a reporter for the local TV/Newspaper, and anybody who kicked the crap out of a sleeping neighbor would have been front page news... Yes, we are aware that the local TV/Newsaper have recently been bought up by a "Major Corporation" (also known for making steel toed boots), but we never thought it would come to this--they just turn a blind eye to such goings on. So, our surprise is wearing thin--it seems kind of obvious now... at first the TV/News stopped covering alot of things, and "those" types of neighbors had begun tossing eggs on "our" cars... but we wrote it off to some sort of personal circumstances we weren't privy to--maybe they'd just had a bad day and were letting off some steam at our expense. Still we never thought they'd come into our homes and kick the crap out of us. Never dreamed they'd take over the City and County (and State and Federal) governments... and start passing laws that infringe on our rights... we tolerated it... we tried to negotiate--and they played along... We thought it was kind of strange that they insisted on upgrading the paper ballot system to a computerized one--one made by one of their uncle's Mega Corporation (also known for their fine quality Brass Knuckles)... but hey, we thought that was progress. We were dumfounded though... when suddenly we lost the Mayor's office and the heads of all the major departments across the board? We just figured everybody in town had just decided they wanted a change--so they voted most of us out. It really was kind of unlikely that we lost some of those races, though... I mean the polls leading up to the election said we were winning by 15 points! That's alot... we thought. Then too, the "exit polls" said we were winning all day election day! Up until late that evening--everyone believed we had won soundly! But suddenly, apparently all those steel toed people are 'night people' because they appeared to vote very late indeed. Still, they did "beat us"... almost exactly the reverse of the early evening exit polls... What could have happened? Maybe we hadn't gotten enough of our friends registered to vote--yeah, many of them didn't really get registered--there was some sort of flub up at the Registrar's Office--but then again, the new commissioner of elections (who wears high-heeled steel toed boots) is rather new on the job--having been elected by a surprise landslide a couple of years ago, so perhaps they'd just made a mistake (thousands of them, but you gotta give 'em a break). So, they "must" have beaten us "fair and square"; after all, electoral "fraud" is virtually unheard of in this country--it couldn't happen here--not here...

Well, after thinking it over--and having seen thousands of cases of highly suspicious electoral events... and having repeatedly lost races we should have won, and having experienced this for six or eight years... and seeing it get worse as more and more steel toed boot electronic voting systems installed... maybe... just maybe... they cheated?

We've been kicked and beaten with clubs, we've had our votes stolen or lost, we've seen our government do things we would never have imagined... and more. Much more.

Therefore... we think we should maybe organize or something. If only one of would step up and "lead" us. We're getting scared and starting to realize that the other side has declared "Total War"--and did so many years ago... It's a bit late, we've lost almost everything. Still, we feel like surely we can reason with the other side--convince them of the error of their ways...
They've all but excluded us from participating in governing--ooops, they've actually already excluded us from that too. Well, we'll show them! If we WISH HARD ENOUGH, somehow we'll get better results next election! Surely.

That's the ticket! Everybody! Listen Up! We've GOT TO ORGANIZE so that WE ALL WISH FOR THE SAME THING! That will solve our problems!
:sarcasm:

Okay, Okay, it's not that bad. Close perhaps, but not. Still, I don't see the kind of activity that we already need to have in place--our most critical election is something like 9 months away (and getting closer every day, apparently).

The reality is: we have a President who was not elected by the people--a kind of Coup d'état. It's almost unimaginable, but it certainly seems all but certain. What are we going to do about it? Are we going to let this false government stand--especially as the role we are allowed is little more than for appearances... We "look" like a Democracy--but are we? If they don't oppress us to the degree Mussolini or Hitler did, are we going to just go along with it--not make waves? The alternative could really be scary! Can we "handle the truth"?

If we don't demand real reform in our voting systems--massive reform--we are tacitly agreeing to abide by this new authoritarian government... Somehow we really must find a way to act--even without the benefit of mass communications (another area from which we have been excluded). Such communications are invaluable for organizing, motivating and educating large numbers of people; it's a handicap--but one we must overcome.

I write this... I read similar exclamations... but what purpose does it serve? What good is it? Nothing comes of it. We really do need leaders to lead us. Where are our leaders? Or is it that there really is nothing we can do? We have to just wait and hope we can decrease the majority we face in Congress? It appears we aren't even going to try in states/races where we have no "real" chance (but if we don't try now, things won't ever change--the future will come and next time around we won't stand a chance again--and some of the people who vote the way they vote do so out of ignorance--they don't even understand why they vote the way they do or the harm caused by it--we have to fix this--and do so without TV--an impossible chore). Oh well... I'll just sit here and WISH REAL HARD that some more effective activity becomes apparent.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. The table was set when GOPcronies bought control of broadcast media in 80s
and 90s.

This has been a well-planned move by the fascists who first took over the Republican party and then the country.
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Not_So_Right_Wing Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. We need to push to have the fairness doctrine back...
this kept the right wing at bay for many years...but without it they are able to do whatever it is they want. They keep offering an "alternative" and our message gets drowned out. We need to push the FCC to re-establish the fairness doctrine.
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cybildisobedience Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Broken record alert!
Media
electronic voting machines

End of story.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
10. Because...
...America is a religious, largely conservative country - even most Democrats would not identify with the majority opinion on DU. Americans are inclined to vote for the eye-for-an-eye tough guy over the brainy intellectual.

The idea that Americans are getting more conservative is bunk. It is true Americans have been voting increasingly for the conservative party - but that is only because all the conservative southern democrats who made up a huge chunk of our party moved to the Republican side.

Do you really think most Americans would identify with DU? Really? There is a lot of great commentary and ideas here, lots of motivated, smart, dynamic people who could do wonderful things for this country. But we have too many special interests groups to placate, too many on our side that celebrate the likes of Castro and Chavez - enemies, whether we like it or not, of the US. Americans are never going to really endorse a party that is perceived as being soft on these types of people. The gun control lobby did great damage to the Democratic Party - Americans are by and large not for gun control and probably never will be. The constant support of murderers like Mumia and this goon who was just executed in California hurts the Democratic Party - Americans are never going to really endorse a party that seems to represent so many outspoken supporters of convicted murderers. The list just goes on and on....

Ya, at this point we can win some elections, but nationally and in a majority of states, only when the other side screws up really badly. It won't mean the American people are endorsing us - which is what we really need to make real change happen.

So many just refuse to accept that the majority of Americans are fairly relgious and convservative minded in nature. The majority of Americans are not rightwing wackos to be sure, they do support government assistance to the needy, they do support reasonable environmental protections, workers rights, etc - but Democrats simply get killed on all of the major social issues. Even on abortion, while most Americans are pro-choice - they are not enthusiastic about abortion and would not object to restrictions such as parental notification and banning late term abortions. The Democratic Party has been trapped in the unenviable position of appearing to be pro-abortion fanatics who almost seem to applaud the practice - that is not a position that resonates with middle America (or much of any part of America for that matter).

Worse, what should the American public be thinking the party stands for - other than the stereotypes they already have about modern Democrats. What exactly is our message? Where does the Democratic Party stand on the major issues of the day? The Democratic Party seems to have no ability to put forward a cohesive message - probably because we have too many special interests to mollify.

We need to stand for things. Calling Bush the devil and blaming every ill in the modern world on him is not going to win elections - and it isn't even believable. Bush is a bad President, but our party can't just stand for pointing out the obvious. We need a platform Americans can understand and relate with, we need to be optimistic when talking about all the great things America is now and will be going forward, we need to stop ceding patriotism to the right, etc, etc, etc, etc...

Imajika
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eggman67 Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Imajika
I wish I could Rec this post. You hit the nail right on the head.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Thanks...
...unfortunantly, this opinion is overwhelmingly unpopular here. Were gonna be spinning our wheels for years if people don't begin to understand some basic truths about where the American public basically stand on defending the nation, punishing crime, etc, etc.

Imajika
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
11. Because too many "Dems" on the Hill act like Repukes
That's the short answer. We can't be unified until we ditch the dead weight.

Baccus, OUT. Dorgan, OUT. Lieberman, OUT.
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Here is a list to help you make a decision
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 03:50 PM by Zodiak Ironfist
Notice that the habits of soooo many senators are to vote with BushCo MOST of the time?

DEMOCRATIC SENATOR LIBERAL INDEX
-------------------------------------------
Harkin (Iowa) 89.2
Boxer (California) 85.7
Lautenberg (New Jersey) 85.7
Akaka (Hawaii) 78.6
Durbin (Illinois) 78.6
Kennedy (Massacheusetts) 78.6
Kerry (Massacheusetts) - DLC 78.6
Corzine (New Jersey) 71.4
Dayton (Minnesota) 71.4
Feingold (Wisconsin) 71.4
Levin (Michigan) 71.4
Mikulski (Maryland) 71.4
Reed (Rhode Island) 71.4
Sarbanes (Maryland) 71.4
Obama (Illinois) 67.9
Dodd (Connecticut) - DLC 64.3
Leahy (Vermont) 64.3
Shumer (New York) 64.3
Wyden (Oregon) 64.3
Bayh (Indiana) - DLC 64.3
Biden (Deleware) 64.3
Clinton (New York) - DLC 60.7
Dorgan (North Dakota) - DLC 57.1
Stabenow (Michigan) - DLC 57.1
Inouye (Hawaii) 57.1
Reid (Nevada) 57.1
Byrd (West Virginia) 50
Murray (Washington) 50
Rockefeller (West Virgnia) 50
Bingaman (New Mexico) 42.9
Cantwell (Washington) - DLC 42.9
Johnson (South Dakota) - DLC 42.9
Kohl (Wisconsin) - DLC 42.9
Baucus (Montana) - DLC 39.3
Conrad (North Dakota) - DLC 39.3

Feinstein (California) 39.3
Leiberman (Connecticut) - DLC 35.7
Carper (Deleware) - DLC 28.6
Lincoln (Arkansas) - DLC 21.4
Nelson (Florida) - DLC 21.4
Salazar (Colorado) - DLC 21.4
Pryor (Arkansas) - DLC 17.9
Landrieu (Louisianna) - DLC 14.3
Nelson (Nebraska) - DLC 0.0


PS...yes, I know I post this a lot, but I am trying to get the message out. Never listen to someone who says that the likes of Ben Nelson votes with Dems most of the time. He doesn't, nor do about 15 other Senators who brazenly brandish a D.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
13. Mercains voted for war president. People gave Bush benefit of doubt.
Both those things are over.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
16. They want it more
And they'll do anything to get it.
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Individualist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-31-06 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Media control
Edited on Tue Jan-31-06 04:14 PM by notsodumbhillbilly
Those who control the media control the nation. The neocons control the media, and Muricans (ignorant, apathetic Americans) believe everything their teevee tells them.
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