Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Full F**king circle: Jon Chait suggests reinstalling Saddam!

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:20 AM
Original message
Full F**king circle: Jon Chait suggests reinstalling Saddam!
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 10:20 AM by n2doc
It was only a matter of time until the "brilliant" minds of the Neocons came up with this one. I mean, the Toon artists have been drawing about it for only, say, the past couple of years or so...

Jonathan Chait: Bring back Saddam Hussein
Restoring the dictator to power may give Iraqis the jolt of authority they need. Have a better solution?
November 26, 2006

THE DEBATE about Iraq has moved past the question of whether it was a mistake (everybody knows it was) to the more depressing question of whether it is possible to avert total disaster. Every self-respecting foreign policy analyst has his own plan for Iraq. The trouble is that these tracts are inevitably unconvincing, except when they argue why all the other plans would fail. It's all terribly grim.

So allow me to propose the unthinkable: Maybe, just maybe, our best option is to restore Saddam Hussein to power.


Yes, I know. Hussein is a psychotic mass murderer. Under his rule, Iraqis were shot, tortured and lived in constant fear. Bringing the dictator back would sound cruel if it weren't for the fact that all those things are also happening now, probably on a wider scale.At the outset of the war, I had no high hopes for Iraqi democracy, but I paid no attention to the possibility that the Iraqis would end up with a worse government than the one they had. It turns out, however, that there is something more awful than totalitarianism, and that is endless chaos and civil war. Nobody seems to foresee the possibility of restoring order to Iraq. Here is the basic dilemma: The government is run by Shiites, and the security agencies have been overrun by militias and death squads. The government is strong enough to terrorize the Sunnis into rebellion but not strong enough to crush this rebellion.

Meanwhile, we have admirably directed our efforts into training a professional and nonsectarian Iraqi police force and encouraging reconciliation between Sunnis and Shiites. But we haven't succeeded. We may be strong enough to stop large-scale warfare or genocide, but we're not strong enough to stop pervasive chaos.Hussein, however, has a proven record in that department. It may well be possible to reconstitute the Iraqi army and state bureaucracy we disbanded, and if so, that may be the only force capable of imposing order in Iraq.Chaos and order each have a powerful self-sustaining logic. When people perceive a lack of order, they act in ways that further the disorder. If a Sunni believes that he is in danger of being killed by Shiites, he will throw his support to Sunni insurgents who he sees as the only force that can protect him. The Sunni insurgents, in turn, will scare Shiites into supporting their own anti-Sunni militias.

And it's not just Iraqis who act this way. You could find a smaller-scale version of this dynamic in an urban riot here in the United States. But when there's an expectation of social order, people will act in a civilized fashion. Restoring the expectation of order in Iraq will take some kind of large-scale psychological shock. The Iraqi elections were expected to offer that shock, but they didn't. The return of Saddam Hussein — a man every Iraqi knows, and whom many of them fear — would do the trick. The disadvantages of reinstalling Hussein are obvious, but consider some of the upside. He would not allow the country to be dominated by Iran, which is the United States' major regional enemy, a sponsor of terrorism and an instigator of warfare between Lebanon and Israel. Hussein was extremely difficult to deal with before the war, in large part because he apparently believed that he could defeat any U.S. invasion if it came to that. Now he knows he can't. And he'd probably be amenable because his alternative is death by hanging.

I know why restoring a brutal tyrant to power is a bad idea. Somebody explain to me why it's worse than all the others.


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-chait26nov26,0,991459.column?coll=la-home-commentary
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. But this would be nothing new
They have a history of supporting dictators and murderers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. The concept is so "Alice in Wonderland", it might work.
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 10:25 AM by no_hypocrisy
Imagine the surrealism of the US military taking out Saddam Hussein, imprisoning him, managing a kangaroo court wherein he is found guilty of international crimes, passing sentence, . . . and before he can be hung, he is reinstalled by the same establishment that took him out in the first place, and will back up his dictatorship with US military support. It's so crazy, it's gotta work.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I believe Hegel once called this sort of thing the dialectic...
:rofl:

"Hegel said that all great world historical events and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second as farce." - Karl Marx, The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Perfect Description! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Plus he's not carrying any of that nasty luggage..
Usay and Qusay
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. Does this mean the White House doesn't have a plan?
Of course they don't.

I wonder what the reaction of the American people would be to this one?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The plan was to rape the country in perpetuity thru a puppet gov.
That seems to be going awry.

Come to think of it, that was their plan for the United States, too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
4. Too late. He's old. We killed his kids.
While his sons couldn't have held the country together once he died, he can't rule now without their murderous, vicious help.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. I don't know
with all the Iraqis have been through, they just might be willing to get behind a strong leader who will restore law and order.

Half of being a leader is attitude and Saddam's got attitude out the ying-yang.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. No Real Second Acts In The Dictator Biz...
Sure didn't work out for Napoleon when he returned from exile, and Saddam's no Napoleon.

The country is too fractured for him to be effective...there are too many very armed and embolden forces within the country that will sort out years, decades, centuries of frustrations on one another...and one major cause, other than the U.S., is Saddam. For many Iraqis, Saddam represents failed wars and severe repression. He's going to be executed shortly, anyway...and there's no denying he murdered his own people and was the agressor in two very brutal and destructive wars...among many other things.

The booosh regime blew a golden opportunity to make a positive difference when they put Bremer in charge and looked the other way as the civil and social orders broke down in that country in the wake of the invasion. This dirty and very ugly moment in our own history will have to be examined...and in an international tribunal. Here's hoping that civil case in Germany is the first step in holding other murderes accountable.

There's no one person or group who can hold this mess together and I suspect we'll see an Iraq that resembles Somalia...a non-state state...where all power will be held in the various enclaves and the country will segregate along sectarian lines...if they haven't done so already.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. The only golden opportunity was to avoid war at the start
Everything after that has been in large part inevitable.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. We'll never get to hang Bremer. Or Bush.
So I just keep the comfy picture in my mind.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #16
21. Napoleon was loved by the French people
So loved, in fact, that when King Louis XVIII heard that Napoleon, after escaping from Elbe, had amassed a huge following and was headed for Paris, he voluntarily abdicated, rather than risk trying to hold on to power. It was foreign armies that put an end to Napoleon's resurgence.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. He's fit, rested, and ready to offer his leadership
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 10:56 AM by kenny blankenship
But seriously, it's completely ridiculous to propose installing a Sunni dictator now. The Shia have endured centuries of underdog status/brutal repression at the hands of Ottoman Turks, Brit installed Hashemite kings, and last but not least the Ba'ath Party--all of these manifestations of Sunni power over the local Shia majority. Yet the spiritual heartland of Shia Islam is there in Iraq. Having come so close to wielding power again in the land of their religion's martyrs' shrines, the Shia can hardly be expected to turn away from their victory now at the last moment and allow another Sunni to reign over them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
n2doc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yep, plus they are well armed now
Saddam couldn't put down the insurgency if he had his whole Army back.

We know where this is going. Eventually a Shia leader will emerge and will become the next dictator over Iraq. The only question is if the Kurdish north will be left alone and if so where the boundaries will be made. But eventually Iraq will look like nearly all of the other states in the region, Authoritarian leadership with heavy repression of the minority groups.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Chomp Donating Member (602 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
12. You could read this piece as quite brilliant satire.....n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Except for one minor point
Chait isn't that s-m-r-t.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
13. Can we bring back his dead sons too? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
14. not to mention that Saddam's was the last "legal" government of Iraq
what an utter clusterfuck.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Betty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
19. And so we went into Iraq for what reason, then?????
After all the death and destruction and billions of dollars wasted...let's just put him back where he was???? this reminds me of the old Emily Litella skits that always ended with "never mind".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. with all due respect,
who cares. Let's just get out. The lies have all been exposed, so whatever they tried to cram down our throats as the reason has blown up in their faces, and whatever the real reason is (oil), it's not worth the American and Iraqi lives lost.
Support the troops - bring them home.
Peace.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
20. Called it!
Edited on Mon Nov-27-06 12:50 AM by ContraBass Black
Two years ago.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryOldDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
23. That is perhaps one of the cruelest ironies ever.
Would Iraq be better with or without Saddam? Would the U.S. be better with or without him? The answer is becoming all too clear.

Once again, THANKS GEORGE!!!

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
24. Good grief -
my husband and I jokingly suggested the same thing during a recent conversation. We figured that trying to run Iraq would be a fate worse than death for Saddam. Little did I know we were on the cutting edge of political philosophy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
25. It won't be a surprise to me if somehow someway Saddam ...
escapes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
26. If it would stop killing for the most part I would be all for it.
after all saddam didn't do anything to me personally.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 06:53 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC