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We need to stamp down hard on this "War of Liberation" nonsense immediately.

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WritersBlock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:33 AM
Original message
We need to stamp down hard on this "War of Liberation" nonsense immediately.
The Iraq invasion was *NEVER* about liberation, and I'm getting sick of revisionist history that spews the B*sh party line to try to make it go down in history as such.

Even Michael Moore is calling it a war of liberation in his latest letter, for Gawd's sake. And the BBC's doing the same thing.

Now, I know I'm getting old and my memory's not what it used to be, but I distinctly remember Bush, Cheney, Blair, et al, hard-selling the invasion by telling Congress, Parliament, and the American & British people that Saddam Hussein possessed weapons of mass destruction, posed an immediate threat to us, and had ties to al-Qaeda.

Those were lies.

The Iraq war was based on lies, and it had absolutely fuck-all to do with "liberating" the Iraqi people.

We must never, EVER forget this, and we must stop allowing anyone to spin it in any other way.
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canetoad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Funny how history is being re-written
practically on the spot.

I would say the words 'liability' and 'dollar' are figuring highly in current media spiels about the genesis of this war. It's going to cost you a lot to put this fucking mess right, and the US will be paying for generations to come. As they should be.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. "We invaded Iraq so we could partition it," Bush Speech 10/5/2007 n/t
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. on the other hand
Ever since the invasion, we have experienced exactly ZERO "Smoking Guns in the form of mushroom clouds"

So at least we can be thankful for that!

-85% Jimmy
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
4. Countries don't have ideals or friends. Just interests. And for the most
Edited on Sun Nov-26-06 10:04 AM by KCabotDullesMarxIII
corrupt and deluded countries, such as the UK and US, the most narrow, shallow and short-term interests at that.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. They kept changing their reasons as the days led up to the
invasion. They started with the WMD story, then as no WMD's were being found, they tried to link him with terrorists and 911. Then they said it was to establish democracy in the ME. I think they kept trying out new scenarios until they found the one that played best with their base so liberating the Iraqi people from an evil dictator was pretty effective. It reminded them of Christians going on the crusades to "save the heathens" and made them feel all righteous about it.

What it all boiled down to was that Bush thought Saddam was a bad man who had tried to kill his daddy. This war had more to do with GWB's ego and his wish to show Poppy he could succeed at doing something. And, of course, we can't forget about the oil.
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Post 9-11
The day of 9-11 Rummy and Wolfie were trying to connect the attack to Iraq.

Wolfowitz was stupid enough to state publicly they chose WMD's "as the only thing they could all agree on."

Step One - start a War
Step Two - figure out the reason why you're starting a war
Step Three - Get out there and go sell the War

They did a damn good job exploiting the fears from 9-11 into getting a War going mutually exclusive to the 9-11 tragedy.

Talk about fucking cynical!

And all these bastards walk free, with good appointed positions and positions of decision making in our government STILL. After creating such a stupid wasteful counter productive criminally insane CLLUSTERFUCK that is Iraq!

Nice work if you can get it. Main thing to put on your resume to get these jobs is the quote; "Yeah, sure I'm more evil than that lightweight Hitler."

-85% Jimmy
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WritersBlock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Yep... exactly my point... changing scenarios.
At the end of the day, the Iraq invasion was a neocon plan that had absolutely *nothing* to do with freedom, democracy, or the liberation of the Iraqi people.

We mustn't forget that, regardless of the spin that's being shaped around its justification.







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exlrrp Donating Member (598 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. " The Melody Changes But The Song Remains The Same.."
One of the most effective of Bush spin control techniques is to throw out a whole buch of crap and then focus on the crap that sticks. Theyve done this contiinuosly and it dovetails with their other tactic of never proving anything, just muddying the waters. Bush hires the best liars in the world but they can no longer spin his way out of this disaster.
You could say this is "taking the shotgun approach" to international diplomacy.
the war didn't change, just the meme.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. It is a war of liberation, just not as they present it.
It has liberated the natural resources, specifically oil, of Iraq into Halliburton's control. It has liberated the factionalized people of Iraq (who haven't yet been liberated of their lives) to slaughter each other in a civil war Saddam has prevented them from fighting. It has liberated terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq, which they couldn't do before bush's invasion. The entire region has been liberated from stability and peace.

Of course, there always is the likelihood that bush has absolutely no fucking idea what "liberty" means in the first place and he was just reading his notes/teleprompter/voice from his earpiece when he said it, but why split hairs?
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90-percent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Biggest source of Ameri-pride for me
Biggest source of Ameri-pride for me is the estimated 600,000 LIVES we liberated from Mr. and Mrs. average Iraqi citizen.

That's one thing America is still good at. Genocide, with fries.

-85% Jimmy
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. ...and a jumbo diet soda.
Yeah, many people have a hard time imagining what that means, which is, I suppose, why people remain apathetic about the war. That's the same number as the entire population of the Omaha, Nebraska metro area. Or the city of La Plata in Argentina. Or Dormund in Germany. Or Tula in Russia. Or the Italian province of Modena. Or Panama City, Panama. Or Astana, the capital of Kazakhstan. Killed in a war they didn't ask for simply because they lived there. Well, at least we're taking most of the wealth away from the survivors, right?
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
12. Interesting how a party that so loathes liberals
is using 'liberation' to prop up their failed invasion.

Operation
Iraqi
Liberation
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baby_mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
13. THANK YOU

The Right has been slowly hypnotising the left into idiocy without even TRYING.
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Founders Know Best Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-26-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Was Michael Moore Kidding?
It makes about as much sense as "They hate us for our freedoms"
They hate us because we are free? That is the most ridiculous absurdity they have ever expected us to believe.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Why to we give a rip about Michael Moore? Since when is he the voive of the poeple?
He's a documentary filmmaker. That is all.

I don't get this big obsession on DU with Moore. He speaks for himself. No one else.
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dollydew Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
16. Just a Note
I went to Moore's website and read what he wrote. Twice. He didn't say he thought it was a war of liberation. He said that's what the government is calling it. He also said you can't "liberate" people at the point of a gun. No where in his letter did he endorse or condone so-called "liberation" of the Iraqi people.
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WritersBlock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-27-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Maybe we didn't read the same thing.
Although he reverts to nomal in the second part of the letter, he refers several times in the first half to liberation, why it's not working, and why we need to get out of Iraq.

I agree wholeheartedly that we need to get out of Iraq, but this reads as if he's saying we need to do so because the Iraqi people aren't doing enough to free themselves:




<snip>

There are many ways to liberate a country. Usually the residents of that country rise up and liberate themselves. That's how we did it. You can also do it through nonviolent, mass civil disobedience. That's how India did it. You can get the world to boycott a regime until they are so ostracized they capitulate. That's how South Africa did it. Or you can just wait them out and, sooner or later, the king's legions simply leave (sometimes just because they're too cold). That's how Canada did it.

The one way that DOESN'T work is to invade a country and tell the people, "We are here to liberate you!" -- when they have done NOTHING to liberate themselves. Where were all the suicide bombers when Saddam was oppressing them? Where were the insurgents planting bombs along the roadside as the evildoer Saddam's convoy passed them by? I guess ol' Saddam was a cruel despot -- but not cruel enough for thousands to risk their necks. "Oh no, Mike, they couldn't do that! Saddam would have had them killed!" Really? You don't think King George had any of the colonial insurgents killed? You don't think Patrick Henry or Tom Paine were afraid? That didn't stop them. When tens of thousands aren't willing to shed their own blood to remove a dictator, that should be the first clue that they aren't going to be willing participants when you decide you're going to do the liberating for them.

A country can HELP another people overthrow a tyrant (that's what the French did for us in our revolution), but after you help them, you leave. Immediately. The French didn't stay and tell us how to set up our government. They didn't say, "we're not leaving because we want your natural resources." They left us to our own devices and it took us six years before we had an election. And then we had a bloody civil war. That's what happens, and history is full of these examples. The French didn't say, "Oh, we better stay in America, otherwise they're going to kill each other over that slavery issue!"

The only way a war of liberation has a chance of succeeding is if the oppressed people being liberated have their own citizens behind them -- and a group of Washingtons, Jeffersons, Franklins, Ghandis and Mandellas leading them. Where are these beacons of liberty in Iraq? This is a joke and it's been a joke since the beginning. Yes, the joke's been on us, but with 655,000 Iraqis now dead as a result of our invasion (source: Johns Hopkins University), I guess the cruel joke is on them. At least they've been liberated, permanently."

<snip>





Now, I have great respect for Michael Moore. Maybe he thought this was the only way to get the pseudo-patriots to support exiting Iraq, and it could be argued that anything that gets our troops home is worth it.

However, legitimization of this illegal war, in any way whatsoever, making it appear as if it's a great, noble effort on our part that's going unappreciated by those for whom we're doing such a favor, only gives a pass to the Bush regime for all history.

And I will not do that.









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