Isn't every single American entitled to some form of health insurance?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

There! I said it! I used the word entitled. Are we not ENTITLED to health insurance if our country can afford it? I did NOT say "CARE", I said "Insurance". I also did not imply that it would be at the sole expense of the government (taxpayers).

I am simply saying that the Leader of The Free World ought to be able to provide some sort of safety/net guarantee to its citizens in the realm of health care (like all the OTHER leading nations of the world). Why are we so SECOND RATE in this area? Why are we close to being THIRD WORLD in this area?

[Monkeyman]

1. Dam right

[Union Thug]

2. Yes. Health care should be a right. n/t

[Democrats_win]

3. Problem: there are thousands of businesses that thrive off of our not having it.

How many businesses make their money from people who can't pay their bills? They've been thriving for six years. Who do you think votes for the Bushes?

It's wrong, but there are so many businesses that make their money off of other people's misery. People who've bought in to the lies of market economics despise safety nets. They just can't see past their own profits to the misery that they create and must maintain in order for their business to survive.

It's time for businesses and the government to work for Americans--if even just a little bit. Now, businesses don't even pretend to care about Americans or America. As long as this situation exists, America stagnates.

[ThomCat]

11. Very true. Businesses thrive on our difficulty

and they have a lot of wealth and power to throw around in Washington to make sure our difficulties don't go away.

I'm a consultant, and I compare this to some of the unethical consultants I see who have no incentive to truly solve a problem because they want to guarantee more work for themselves.

[sweetheart]

4. Its a human right.

I don't agree with you because of the nationalism. I think that a noble nation,
a new america, might see it as a human right for all the world to have modern medical care cradle to grave.
The noble grandeur of 1948 is completely lost on the degenerate smallness of today, but we must reach out
to become greater than little americans little british, for an altogether different kingdom.. empire if you will,
of enlightenment on earth. There is a human right to be enlightened, why don't people use it and become
enlightened? There is a human right to justice, why is there such injustice? The rules are just painted
on the wall, and nobody can read. Its not animal farm, its petri dish, bubble bubble. .. /end of rambling

Healthcare is a human right:

Article 25.

(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.

(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

Article 26.

(1) Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.


http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[LiberalArkie]

5. We should not be stressing the ENTITLEMENT, but, instead

What should be stressed is how our employers can not compete against foreign companies that do not have to provide the health insurance because their national governments provide it.

More and more employers are saying that is the problem of this decade. I think if stressed properly then even the conservatives could support it. This is the only industrialized country that does not provide it and forces the employers to provide health insurance. No wonder we can not compete..

[ThomCat]

12. I think we need to hit both arguments at once.

No one argument will convince everyone, but multiple arguments, aimed at different target audiences will get more support.

[MercutioATC]

15. I think we ned to stress the financial neccesity of universal health insurance.

People without health insurance cost us BILLIONS of dollars a year for three basic reasons:

1) They don't have access to preventative care, so their medical issues tend to be more advanced (and costly) to treat.

2) Their only guaranteed point of access to medical care is an Emergency Department which, by law, cannot turn them away. ED care is some of the most expensive care.

3) Because their medical conditions are not treated early, there is a higher loss of productivity among those without health insurance.


Basic universal access to health care makes financial sense.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

6. Back in the days when I was studying German, I read a magazine article

about a new type of surgery and what to expect when one went into the hospital to have it. The article urged people not to hesitate to ask for certain services if they needed them, because it was their "Bürgerrecht," their "right as a citizen."

What a concept.

[Warpy]

7. We're not even second rate

I've been telling people for nearly 20 years that I enjoy the same health care system they have in Botswana, only Botswana has a better public health system now than the US does.

Quite simply, this country does not care about its people.

They give us lip service every couple of years when corporate puppets need to go through the formality of an election, but that is where it starts and stops.

Eventually it will be brought home to even the selfish upper middle class--the worst--just why the population of this country needs to be kept healthy. By then it will be too late, and they'll be watching their heirs die off from the next preventable pandemic that nobody cared to prevent.

This country has gotten worse than much of the third world because this very rich country simply does not care about anything but wealth and the people who possess it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

9. That's right!

I used to advise students who wanted to go teach English in Asia after graduation, and so I read job ads from over there quite a bit. It was striking that the salaries in Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan included compulsory deductions for national health insurance. I'm sure it would have come as no shock to the recruits from Canada or the UK, but my US students were stunned.

[HockeyMom]

8. Daughter has to work for a YEAR to get health insurance

with her new job. That's a very long time. She is diagnosed BiPolar and needs to see her doctor and take her meds every day for the rest of her life. Now that she doesn't have insurance, she cannot afford the doctor visits and to pay full price for her meds. She only has about one weeks' supply of pills left. This is a very, very bad situation.

I suppose she can apply for Medicare with her disability but with all the bureaucratic red tape, how long will that take? I know how much COBRA costs from when my husband lost his job, and my daughter certainly cannot afford that on her salary.

Yes, everyone is this country should have medical insurance. If we can spend billions a day on a unnecessary war, we can afford health insurance for ALL our citizens.

[LynzM]

13. Tell your daughter to call the company that makes the med

Sometimes, they will have programs through which you can get the drug for free. Might be quicker than going through the red tape.

I'm so, so sorry you guys are going through this. That sucks. :hug:

[Benhurst]

10. Absolutely not!

How can we remain The World's Only Superpower if we divert needed funds from the military/industrial complex to the people?

Bombs away!

[puebloknot]

14. In a word...or two...

Hell, yes.

A friend from Israel woke me up to this fact when we were both working together as health insurance agents years ago:

"It is absurd that a country as wealthy as this one cannot organize itself to take care of the needs of its citizens."

Prior to that, I had not had it in my consciousness that health care is a *right*!

We get too soon old and too late smart! :)

[KAZ]

16. Same answer as the "other poll" . Absolutely, 100% n/t

n/t.

[OregonBlue]

17. As a couple we pay $550 a month for a $2,500 deductible per person.

I recently got pneumonia and had to go to a walk-in clinic while visiting L.A.. A shot of antibiotic (Levaquin) cost $120. The oral medication cost $87 for 7 pills. We get our healthcare in Thailand where it costs us about 10% of what it is here. We never go to the doctor in the U.S. It really is disgusting. We own a small mom and pop business. Our rate has gone from $300 to $550 a month in 3 years and we have NEVER made a claim. It is criminal!!!

[DocSavage]

18. So, in other words

you are tired of paying for your own health care and you want someone else to do it for you. How about changing plans. Go to a 10K deductible, use your insurance for catastrophic conditions. Use it like your car insurance. You pay for your maintenance yearly without using your insurance.

I sound harsh, but I get tired of people saying that health care is a right. OK, if it is, what guarantees it. Who pays for it? It is real easy to create a thread and say heath care is a right, and easy to kick it and recommend it, but what is the plan. How much health care is the individuals responsibility and how much is a "right"?

Comparing halt care in Thailand to here is apples and oranges. What is the yearly pay for a RN in Thailand? How about a MD? Does the hospital have to pay thousands of dollars a year to be JACHO certified? How about the cost of non-paying patients, where does that money come from? If universal care is adopted, what is an office visit worth? How about an appendectomy, by-pass? Do cardiologist and neuro surgeons make too much money now? going to cut that income?

Flame suite on

[Vinca]

23. FYI - states differ and so do their insurance rules and regs.

In my state you cannot buy a policy with a $10,000 deductible. I tried. IMHO, you need to go back to school for a little compassion training. Most people are willing to pay for their health care, but when stratospheric costs blow past their available income, they can't. I was arguing with a Republican the other day about universal health care and he made a good point about why costs are so high. He said insurance companies make deals with hospitals and physicians about what percentage they will pay per procedure. The health care provider will then continue to up the ante in order to make more money off the percentage agreed upon. So maybe the problem is greed on the part of the insurance companies, the hospitals and the doctors, leaving the patient up that same, old creek without a paddle. Unless and until there is government intervention to stop the hamsters on the wheel, we'll continue to have embarrassing infant mortality rates and lowered life expectancy.

[DocSavage]

27. You nailed it with the insurance companies

Next time you are at your doctor, offer to pay cash, ask for the expected as the basis of your payment. I bet you will be very suprised. We bill, post expected, and often have to write off the remainder. Part of the problem is that people use insurance for minor ailments. If health insurance was used like you use car insurance, health care costs would be less. I do not think it is greed as much as having to process millions of claims for routine stuff that if there was a high deductable you would pay cash for or just buy OTC meds for.

Part of the problem with good insurance is that heath care is available and paid for, for routine non emergent visits. Somthing else that is going to have to be addressed is the tort system. As long as a provider has to pay 10K or more a year for mal-practice rates will be higher, more tests will be ordered, more referrels to specialists. A lot of todays healthcare dollar is spent on defensive medicine. That is a real waste.

[Vinca]

28. Actually, I can't afford insurance so I'm at the mercy of what a doctor

or hospital will charge me. Thankfully, I live in an area of exceptionally socially responsible people. Doctors routinely cut the bill in half and I pay at the time of service. The hospital is very accommodating in structuring payment plans - if necessary - and I've never found anything on a bill that I felt was out of line. I know other places and people are far different. We're in agreement when it comes to defensive medicine. I know malpractice insurance is outrageous, however there has to be recourse if Dr. Strabismus lops off the wrong breast. Maybe there should be an option for doctors to be private practitioners, government-subsidized practioners or a blend of both. The carrot being the tax payers foot the bill for all or part of the malpractice insurance in exchange for services provided under a government insurance program. There has to be a solution everyone can live with that will make health care available to everyone.

[DocSavage]

40. It is the "what everyone can live with"

that tends to be the killer with fixing the system. The conservatives abhorrer the idea of socialized medicine or the Govt controlling it more than today. The Liberals feel that it is the govts job to provide health care to everyone. It seems that compromise is not in eithers vocabulary.

And that of course means that the status quo stays. Sen Clinton learned 10 years ago about this, I do not think she will do it again.

Have you tried Medicaid?

[Vinca]

41. I'm in the never never land of being too well off for Medicaid,

too poor to afford insurance. I'm also self-employed, have a family member with a chronic condition and nearing 58. Insurance companies don't want us and quote their fees accordingly. I know someone who had worked all his life and was set for a comfortable retirement when cancer hit. He retired early and had a good chunk of his esophagus removed. If you're a doctor, you can appreciate how pleasant life was after that. His employer's insurance lasted through the first year. The second year it was bumped up to $12,000 for minimal coverage and a high deductible. By the third year - and it was amazing the guy was still alive - he and his wife decided to sell the home they'd lived in all their married lives and move to Florida. They didn't want to go and leave their friends and family, but Florida has bankruptcy laws which would allow them to keep a roof over their heads when all the money was gone. As far as I know, they're still plugging along. The self-employed are particularly screwed. I went to an auction preview one day and took an informal poll of all the other dealers there that day. Not a one could afford insurance. (Of course, that might mean we're just crazy to continue doing what we enjoy when we should be parked behind a desk entering widget counts into a database so we can have minimal health insurance.) In any case, we can't give up the quest for a compromise. Hillary's debacle had more to do with a Republican vendetta against anything Clinton than anything else. (It was, as you recall, the era of a thousand subpoenas over a Christmas card list.) At this point, the people have spoken. The majority are in favor of universal health care. If Republicans continue to obstruct what the people want, the people will speak louder next time. (I'm now getting down off my soap box to check the Canadian MLS site again.)

[OregonBlue]

25. Are you seriously defending a health care system where an

injection of an antibiotic (any antibiotic) costs $120 and 7 pills cost $87? Someone is making a killing off of this so called "health-care" system. It's welfare for rich corporations. If you really want to talk about it, I was a health-care administrator of a large HMO for many years. The waste and abuse built into the system is overwhelming.

A classic example is:

My husband had cyst on his heal. We went to a hospital in Bangkok. We were sent immediately to see a foot specialist. He looked at it and told us it was a cyst. We thought he'd take an xray, schedule an appointment, etc. Instead the doctor had him climb on a table. He deadened his foot, aspirated the cyst, wrapped it, gave him an antibiotic and told him to keep it dry. If it was not better within a week come back. Total bill was $87 including medicine, bandages, etc.

Under our system, he would have gone to the family doctor who would have referred him to foot specialist, who would have sent him to the lab for xrays and a sample of the fluid. When they discovered after all of their tests, that it was a cyst, they would have had him come back to aspirate the cyst. They would have then paid a nurse to come in and wrap the foot and sent him to a pharmacist for exorbitantly priced medication. They would have scheduled a return visit to make sure it was healing.

It is a racket and anyone who doesn't see it doesn't want to or has a financial interest in the status quo.

[we can do it]

33. Yeah - So Much Better That We Are Spending A Billion A Week On War

What the f^&%k were we thinking.

[PA Democrat]

42. Sorry, but people should not go without health care

so that the insurance industry and for profit hospitals can make obscene profits. The cost of health care should not be jacked up by more than 20% to cover fancy marketing ads.

It is obscene.

[gollygee]

43. Thailand? How about comparing it to Canada or Australia

talk about comparing apples to oranges.

[Yavin4]

44. Simple. Extend Medicare To Everyone

They already take a tax deduction from everyone's check for Medicare. Now, they will take a little more, and I'd bet that the overall deductions would still be less than the private insurance deduction.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. yes we are, there is no excuse for a rich country letting its citizens suffer needlessly.

[shadowknows69]

20. Would be nice

because we don't I probably won't make it to 40. Cheery thought huh?

[Beelzebud]

21. We should be, but I guess some of us are just sub-human, not worthy of health care.

Myself included. I'm in debt because I had to have surgery that I couldn't afford.

That makes me sub-human. Not worthy of good medical care.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. It isn't a matter of entitlement, it's a matter of pragmatism.

The government is us. It makes sense in a self-interested way to set up a system in which we all get medical care in the most efficient way possible.

The most efficient possible way is single payer insurance.

And we're not "close" to third-world, we are third world. People in Cuba live longer.

The leader of the free world doesn't owe us anything - except to do our bidding. He's our servant.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

24. I agree with your every statement.

Although when I said "leader of the Free World" I wasn't thinking of the President or any person, I was thinking of us collectively as a nation. Being the Leader of the Free World is one of those positions that a thinking person might decline. It seems that we are allowed to shoulder all the burdens and expenses of being the world's policeman while we ignore the health and well being of our own citizens.

[sandyd921]

26. The problem is that

elites like Bill Frist and his family and other health insurance and for-profit health care CEOs and top executives are making huge profits on the backs of people who are ill. Dynamite for-profit health insurance and health care corporations and put everyone under Medicare and we'll save billions on costs and be able to make good on that entitlement and provide high quality care to all. As a side benefit it will make our enterprises much more competitive and encourage many new start-up enterprises.

[rug]

29. No access to health care is a real threat. Terror is not.

It is a right.

[Jcrowley]

30. Yes

K&R

Just cut the military budget a wee bit and give the cash to life instead of death.

Mass movement needed.

[we can do it]

31. Damn Right -

Time to stop the profiteering in our health-care system. Its about time people are put before profits.

[Greyhound]

32. We have become second rate in every respect save military might.

In many areas, such as education and health care, I think second rate is stretching it. BTW, why do you think we need to keep the insurance industry in charge of our system, or did I misunderstand you?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

34. A little misunderstanding

I personally believe very strongly in single payer universal health, but I know some do not agree with me. I think if we can just first acknowledge and agree with my opening statement that yes! we are all entitled to health insurance, then we can argue the means of delivery.

I do NOT think healthcare should be run by the insurance companies or Big Pharma. Single payer is the most efficient, in my eyes. But, if someone comes up with another construct that makes sense, I am willing to listen.

[upi402]

35. yes. wonder why Rangel doesn't want to go near it right now???

Saw him on CSPAN saying that to the Reuters reporter.
Aside from the low hanging fruit of negotiating with big pharma, that is.

[Cleita]

36. Too bad you used the word insurance because it's at the bottom

of our health care crisis. Insurance by it's very nature tries to reduce it's risk. So insurers will cherrypick the young and healthy to lower their risks. So as you can see they are denying health care to the people who need it, the sick and elderly.

This is where universal single payer health care is the best way to go. It pools the money available for health care, so that those who need it get it and none are turned away. It lowers administrative costs to between 2% and 3% unlike the insurers whose administrative costs run between 8% and 15%. It does not provide health care but it negotiates prices of drugs and medical services with the various private health care givers and pharmaceuticals. The patient can still select their own doctors and care.

It's time to make the insurers go back to doing what they do best, which is insuring for possible disasters, not determining who can and cannot get needed health care when the time comes.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

37. I agree with you. The use of "insurance" is my poor attempt to frame the discussion

Most Americans seem willing to discuss the issues of health insurance but use the words "Universal Health Care" or "Single Payer" and some seem to think that immediately thereafter we will be wearing potato sacks and working on the commune.

A lot of people who know what side their bread is buttered on have worked long and hard to foster this image.

[StrongbadTehAwesome]

38. YES.

My uncle died in March at the age of 45 because he had been without health insurance (and thus had only the most minimal healthcare) for at least a decade, working waitstaff and retail clerk jobs. He let a cold turn into double pneumonia before he finally went to the doc, then refused to be admitted though the doctor insisted. The doctor reluctantly gave him a cocktail of meds and sent him home to cough it out on his own. He didn't make it. He was too proud to ask any of us for help; we live on the other side of the state and had no clue until it was already too late.

I was, and still am, beyond furious. Forty-five is the average life expectancy in SOMALIA. We can and should do better for our working poor.




Edited to add further explanation.

[LWolf]

39. Every single human is entitled to comprehensive health care. n/t

[Toots]

45. No... we are entitled to National Health Care

Funded completely by tax payers and benefitting every single American. It is a sad day when the richest nation in the world will not take care of it's citizens. The entire purpose of the government is to maintain the "health and welfare" of the nation. If one citizen is left behind then we all are left behind..We are the only westernized nation that fails to provide for the health of it's citizens...Yet the rich keep getting richer and richer while the rest survive...somehow...

[Coexist]

46. absolutely.

entitled to health care.

[madokie]

47. Damn straight they are

and not have to fight in an unnecessary war to get it like I did either.