Let's drop the "what do we do about Iraq?" hand-wringing

[MindPilot]

This idea that the quagmire in Iraq is some great challenge that we've been handed is really getting on my last good nerve. It is not the fault of the United States, it is not the fault of America or Britain. As Democrats and liberals we should take exactly zero responsibility for Iraq, we don't "own" the problem. In fact we have less than zero responsibility because millions of us told them not to go there.

The responsibility for Iraq lies in one place and one place only, and that is the White House.

The Democrats are just the people who clean up the crime scene; no involvement in the crime, just mopping up the aftermath. In this case mopping up means getting the contractors and military out. Done. End of story. If the Iraqis have any problem with that they can take it up with the * administration and Halliburton.

Beyond getting our troops home, Iraq ain't our problem.

[kentuck]

1. Now it's the Democrats "problem"...

Even though it was the decision of George W Bush to lie to the American people and to invade that country. He broke it - he owns it. Our only responsibility is to try and repair it. It is not the fault of the Democrats if our plan fails. We have no responsibility to put forth any plan at all. We could simply withdraw and say it was a disastrous decision by the Republican President, George W Bush.

[MindPilot]

2. I agree totally. Our only goal is preventing any more American casualties.

We do that by getting our people out NOW.

[shadowknows69]

4. The problem is

there will still be hundreds before anything is really done.

[kentuck]

5. Exactly! Declare victory and get the hell out...

We overthrew their dictator. We helped them set up a governing body. We helped them establish a security force. There's nothing else we can do, except to protect those now in power. That is not our job. It is now up to the Iraqi people to decide what kind of government they want. We have done our job. We have overstayed our visit.

[SoCalDem]

25. Exactamundo.. Someone in congress just needs to stand up and start saying it

a la :

"Look, we had (and still have for a few years) an INEPT bunch of thugs who decided, on bogus, cherry-picked "intel", to invade Iraq, overthrow Hussein. Whatever their goal was in the beginning, it's shifted many times, and the end result for every incarnation has been the same.. more dead people.

We're not going to continue a failed operation.

The Iraqi people are now free of their dictator, they have the freedom to do whatever they want to do.

We're sorry it did not turn out as we all wished it had, but it;s time for us to go.

Once a stable government emerges, and the killing stops, we'll be glad to help out, IF they ask us."

[shadowknows69]

3. I'm sure blackwater mercs would be happy to stay

and protect the oil barons. it should never have been the US army's job.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Um...dead wrong

Posing the thing as some "problem" is a craven avoidance of reality. It isn't a "problem." It's a goddam bloodbath that has killed almost 3,000 American soldiers, wounded almost 45,000 others, killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, maimed God only knows how many more, shattered our nation's budget, annihilated our reputation, and made the whole wide world a hell of a lot more dangerous.

You want to leave it to Bush and crew to fix it? Why? So they can look bad doing it. Awesome! Only a few hundred (or thousand, or ten thousand) more people will die while we wait for Bush to look bad.

I believe the Democrats are a party of better ideas across the board. I believe, now that we are in power, that it is our absolute and solemn responsibility to do "hand-wringing" until our knuckles fall off...and until we find a way to deal with the situation.

Damn.

[JuniperLea]

8. No shit

Who knows what that way will be. I think we've been lied to so much that we really need to get a lot more information before those details can be fully worked out. But it IS our responsibility. Ignoring problems has never, ever made them go away. I don't know about you, but I've had a problem with ignoring problems since I was a kid. Just can't do it.

[kentuck]

10. It's also about accepting responsibility...

Iraqis have to accept responsibility for their government at some time. It is not up to us. How many more lives are we supposed to sacrifice, not knowing if it will be even worse after the sacrifice?

[JuniperLea]

11. That is true, but we are responsible for the chaos

And we don't know the truth about any of it, not for certain. Who knows what deals BushCo have going on with the mock government of Iraq? We can't just leave without a plan. We just don't have enough credible information. That is where the focus should be, IMHO. Without real intelligence, we are acting on speculation at best.

[kentuck]

17. What do you mean "we" , white man?

George W Bush is responsible for lying us into the war and unilaterally invading. So how long are we suppose dto stay? Will 58,000 deaths be long enough?

[JuniperLea]

32. who you calling "white man"?

I'm neither.


You don't get it... so you insult. Brilliant.

[MindPilot]

12. I don't think I'm the one avoiding reality and Bush already looks bad.

There is nothing we can do except get the hell out of there. This is the "you touch it you own it" theory; if the Democrats do anything, it will become our problem--or more accurately as you pointed out, a "bloodbath"--and the Bush Administration will be able to wash the blood from their hands.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. There is only one solution.

Retreat.

Ugly, messy, disastrous.

The job of congress is to control the purse. Inept as he is, it is the job of the commander-in-chief to develop tactics and strategery.

We'll leave, more soldiers will die, more treasure will be lost and the middle east will fall even further into destabilized chaos. Not because Democrats didn't sieze the controls of the already-flaming Hindenburg, but because it's inevitable.

The pottery barn rules are still in force, and no amount of hovering over the wreckage will mitigate the fact that it's already broken. All that we can do is absorb partial blame.

In the interest of preventing the next disastrous clusterfuck, I hope we don't. Kucinich is right, cut off funding.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. I think there may be some misinterpretation involved.

I think the OP's saying we should pull out immediately and whatever happens then is Bush's fault/responsibility.

Do you disagree?

[bling bling]

28. I should have just read your post before I responded.

And said "ditto."

Good post.

[JuniperLea]

7. We are morally responsible

The leaders of our country caused Iraq to be FUBAR. We can never fix it completely; it's been broken for far too long, probably since it ceased to be known as part of Mesopotamia. We need to at least give them some tools to try and fix themselves. I think all things Halliburton, et al, should foot the bill.

Collectively, "WE" did this to them. "WE" need to do something. To shirk that responsibility is pretty childish.

If you want to get ticky-tacky, and it appears you do... then "WE" didn't do enough to stop the criminals who were personally responsible and were therefore fully able to commit these atrocities before our very eyes and apparently with our blessings.

[MindPilot]

20. WE as in liberals, democrats, greens, whatever did everything we could

to stop the invasion before it started. Millions of us all over the world. I marched, called, wrote, marched, called, and wrote some more. In short we did everything we could within law to stop this from happening. But nobody listened. Short of taking over the White house and physically restraining the president from giving the order, what more could we realistically have done?

Let me be very clear: This is a REPUBLICAN quagmire; keep that front and center. We liberals have a long history of being good little lackeys and dutifully cleaning up republican shit. It's time for them to grow up, take care of their own messes and quit trying to lay the blame on others.

[JuniperLea]

33. If the job didn't get done, then none of us did enough

To turn a back and say it's not our problem is beyond childish.

[Jim Warren]

9. Lives in the balance

Throughout all the talk and political wrangling over the issue there can often be the sad omission of the innocent lives that will either be lost or possibly saved stemming from the future course this takes. Of course we're concerned for further involvement and possible loss of American troops,
but it's just crass to think about forgetting the 600K+ Iraqis already killed........ or adding to that.

[AZBlue]

13. This may be the most unbelievable post on DU I've ever seen.

"we have less than zero responsibility"
We have 100% responsibility.

"we don't 'own' the problem"
Yes, we do.

"Beyond getting our troops home, Iraq ain't our problem."
If I responded here with what's really going through my mind right now, I'm sure I'd be kicked off DU for excessive use of profanity. So I'll just say why don't you tell that to the tens of thousands of families in Iraq who have lost relatives?

Your crass indifference to the death, destruction and violence that we, yes we, have created is mind-boggling.

[MindPilot]

19. Excuse me, you got a mouse in your pocket?

I was one of millions who did everything I could within the law to stop the invasion before it happened. We are no more responsible for this than you would be if someone stole your car and used it in a bank robbery. If you want to assume the responsibility for something done by a president who wasn't even legitimately elected, then be my guest, but leave me out of it.

Yeah we gotta fix it but there is no way I'm buying into the idea that we own it. Iraq is a REPUBLICAN quagmire; don't let it become the Democrat's burden.

[AZBlue]

21. Just because you don't like a situation doesn't mean you can just run from it.

You're a US citizen? The US invaded Iraq and created this mess. Period.

You don't like that, change your citizenship. Otherwise, accept your responsibilities. This is one you actually won't be able to run from.

[MindPilot]

23. "This is one you actually won't be able to run from."

What are you insinuating? Just come right out and say it.

My alert button finger is gettin' itchy.

[newsdude]

15. Abdicating our responsibilities

is not an option
Perhaps you forgot that the Democrats, for the most part, gave the president the okay for war.

Even those of us who were opposed to the war from the start have some responsibility.
We couldn't convince the rest of the nation that pre-emptive war was the wrong thing to do.

[MindPilot]

"We couldn't convince the rest of the nation that pre-emptive war was the wrong thing to do"

Blame for that lies squarely with the media.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. Fully agree

Bush sent troops to Iraq over our objections and by lying to us. He beat us to the ground with jingoism and false patriotism, then stepped over us to get what he wanted.

Now that we've picked ourselves up, Republicans want us to share the blame for the catastrofuck they've created. Count me out.

His job is tactics. Ours is financing. Bring congress a plan that they'll pay for - it's his job.

[MindPilot]

22. Thank you!

You pretty much coalesced what I'm saying rhetorically into an (I hate it when I use office-speak) action item.

Pitch it, George. And if you could have that ready to go by the end of January. That'd be greaaaat.

[coalition_unwilling]

24. You have obviously forgotten Richard Gebhardt's Rose Garden

condordate with BFEE right before the 2002 elections. A lot of Dems bear a lot of complicity imho.

[fishnfla]

26. Personally, I hope the Dems bring us all ponies, soda pop and doughnuts

I'm sure there are bigger problems than Iraq. Lets just ignore it and it'll go away

[bling bling]

27. That's an attitude I don't share.

I care what we do in Iraq because I care about our country's future. It's a terrorist-recruiting bonanza over there. I don't want this to be a war that has our children's children feeling the rammifications/implications.

I care about what we do because I care about the innocent Iraqi's who's lives have been put on hold if not already shattered. What we do affects them too, it doesn't just affect our soldiers.

I care about what we do because I want it to be the best option out of all the options, whatever that may be. And the Republicans have proven that they're too grandiose and not realistic enough to do anything right over there. These are criminals, really. Who's best interest is it in to continue letting a bunch of crooks take charge of such a mess? I'd like the Dem's to talk to the people on the ground in Iraq and come up with a list of plans that make sense.

Anybody can point the finger and absolve themselves from responsibility. Anybody can do that. Good leaders wouldn't even think of doing that. That's why great leaders are the ones who go down in the history books. That's why great leaders aren't a dime a dozen. The Dem's need to be great leaders for our country right now. We need some people in our government to look up to for a change.

[kentuck]

29. The assumption is that our presence there will make things better...

That somehow we can lessen the violence and make it a better place for the Iraqi people? I don't know if that is necessarily true.

[bling bling]

31. No, not necessarily.

I don't know what the solution is. I just want all the options put on the table. I want the rational, intelligent *adults* in our government to put their heads together with the Generals and leaders on the ground in Iraq and come up with what they feel is the best option, whatever that may be. There are a lot of factors that need to be considered and weighted.

Bringing the troops home right now may very well be the thing to do. I just want to make sure that this decision is made for the right reasons -- because it's the best option out of all the options. And I won't feel comfortable about that unless the Democrats are involved too.

Look at the mess the Republicans have gotten us into. The Democrats need to step up at this critical time in our country's history and take a leading role in fixing the mes because it's in the best interest of the country.

These are United States Senators and United States Congress people. That's what comes first. Party affiliation should come after that. A lot of the the messes this country is in now is because the Republicans, drunk with power, forgot that over the past 6 years.

[roamer65]

30. We'll see how much we care...

...when Ghawar, Saudi Arabia's largest oilfield is in flames. This thing is gonna spread. Col. David Hackworth was right when he said we will "rue the day" we started this &^$% war.

[loyalsister]

34. To what standard do we hold Republicans?

There are some Republicans who might thinkthat since they and all of their friends have jobs and buy their own health care, they should be able to opt out of paying any tax dollars toward Medicaid.
They are not responsible they should not have to be a part of it.

Or is that not how it works? We take on our policies here, because we live under a system of representative government. This is not just Bushes war. Our Senators and Representatives legitimized this war in the minds of the general public with the IWR.
Anyone who doesn't believe that those were the immediate and lasting effects of that legislation needs to poll DUers on whether it bothers them that some Democrats voted for it.
Members of Congress didn't get the message, voted based on politics, were tricked, etc......
They are\were our elected officials. Majorities in our states and districts elected them.
Whoever is there now was elected to cleanup the mess that is left.
We owe the Iraqis our very best effort after what we have done, though.
Before we got there, they at least had stability.
We should feel some sense of empathy.