So, they hack the election. Then, WHAT????

[debbierlus]

They are going to do it. The Bush administration stands to be impeached and put up on criminal trial, if Congress shifts. They have the means. They have the will. And, we all know they have NO ethics or scruples.

So, what do we do when they do it?

I am NOT advocating not voting. I think we should make it as hard for them to cheat as possible, and the larger the turn-out, the better for us. But, I think the most likely scenario is this (and I WANT very much to be wrong and completely made fun of as of Wednesday, NOTHING could make me happier then being wrong on this):

All of the close races go to the Republicans via vote flipping and vote suppression.

Forget the Senate - (we would win it, if it was an honest election, I have no doubt, but this is too easy. Very close races in Southern States. The fix is already in.)

The House will be more difficult, but not impossible. They will fix the closest races. Then, they will explain it as this:

Although national polls and attitude favored the dems, the election was decided by only a handful of races in closely divided races. The Republicans keep control. (Rove basically has already said this - & that HE has THE math of this race. I bet he does.)

So, what do we do? The hacked voting machines can't be used for proof because they tainted virus deletes itself at the end of the election cycle.

There are no paper trails on a significant portion of these machines.

What do we do?

I don't think this election will be the one where we take back the House or Senate. But, I do think this is the election that people may wake up fully to the fact that our elections are a SCAM. So,

VIDEO THE VOTE (videothevote.org)

Monitor your district

Keep a record of any & all exit polls lest they be changed to fit the outcome

We need to document the hell out of this oncoming train wreck.

[cali]

1. Shove it.

I'm tired of being polite to you doom and gloom conspiracy types. You could have written a perfectly OK post about video the vote without the bullshit predictions of doom for the dems.

I'm tired of pronouncement like the one you made about how we'd win the Senate if it weren't rigged. And you know this how? Oh that's right, you don't have a fucking bit of evidence; just conjecture stated as fact.

A few short months ago, we weren't expected to do nearly as well either in the Senate or House as we're doing today.

Why your sort can't exercise a wee bit of restraint, and wait until AFTER the election to moan and groan, is beyond me. This kind of negativsm sucks.

[acmejack]

2. Has anyone ever told you that you are a Class A

ASSHOLE? Now they have

edit don't respond if you don't like it, no one appointed YOU ruler of the board despite what you think!

[cali]

7. My, my

aren't you articulate. I have every right to express what I think, just as you do- and have. I have no idea if you're an asshole or not. You're not one of those people that even register with me. Probably because you've never written anything remotely memorable.

[acmejack]

11. You consider "Shove it" Articulate & Memorable?

Cali, you can do better than that... :rofl: (I hope)

I'm devastated you don't like me, I'll lose sleep. If I lost sleep over assholes...

[cali]

15. No.

shove it was neither articulate, nor memorable. I'm sorry I turned that particular phrase. My temper flared. Too many of these doom and gloom posts are fraying at my nerves. Not to mention that it is possible we could lose seats legitimately, particularly in the Senate. Does the OP actually think it's not possible for Webb or Ford to lose?

Anyhoo, I shouldn't have said shove it. It's a particularly rude thing to say. But, the post itself, was a substantive one. So, you're right I can do better. The only question left is: Can you?

[cali]

34. What? No response to my post responding to this post?

I would have been quite interested to see a response.

[Zensea]

8. No one appointed you ruler of the board either

did they?

[acmejack]

12. I merely support First amandment rights, fool

[Zensea]

16. Fool?

Just exactly where do you get that from? Go look in the mirror.
You don't know me, you don't know my opinion one way or the other on the subject of election fraud and yet you are ready to immediately call me a fool.
For all you know I agree with the original poster, wouldn't that make you feel foolish if I did?
If you want to talk about other levels of foolishness, there is no first amendment on a private discussion board, the first amendment regards public discourse, the press and the government.
Even if it did apply to private discussion boards I don't see anyone trying to take away someone's right to speak anywhere in this thread.

By the way, what is this First amandment you speak of?

[acmejack]

27. Perhaps you should avoid jumping into heated discussions

that don't involve you? And spouting banalities, that would undoubtedly spare you such outrages. The OP asks a legitimate question, IMO. Just because we don't want to think of the possibility renders it no less of a possibility. Are we going to sit by while the republiclowns conduct another Brooks Brothers riot & usurp democracy again? Or are we to have some idea of what we might want to do?

I suggest we have a plan for the latter course and let them know we will not stand for it again.

I apologize for all intemperate remarks in this thread.

[Zensea]

33. You suggest I silence myself?

Now you want to take away My freedom of speech by suggesting I avoid jumping into discussions that don't involve me?
How does it not involve me?
I'm on this board too.
I just checked your profile and if it is correct, I've been on this board longer than you.
I may not have as many posts but I got here first and this board is my place also.
I'm involved with the stuff that is written here just as much as anyone else reading it.

Your post here is no less banal (so lacking in originality as to be obvious and boring) than mine and you are doing more "spouting" than I am in my opinion.

Back to my original point in my original post. I "jumped" in, as it were, because it looked to me like you were setting yourself up as some arbiter of what was acceptable or not acceptable at the same time as you were giving someone trouble for doing the same thing. So I called you on it. I fully expected the type of response I got and the response continues to be in the field of what I expected. Noone likes to be called on their contradictions.

[acmejack]

37. I apologized to you but if you wish to pursue it further we can.

I am content to let it drop, your call. I don't need to spend the rest of my Sunday morning playing childish games, you have been here longer-good for you, what does that mean? How could my profile be incorrect? That was a curious remark I just have to know about that.

Face it, I am simply a banal, unoriginal clod, OK? Totally predicable. Put me on ignore.

[Zensea]

38. I never put anyone on ignore, it's not my style

What I meant about correct was maybe you had changed your user name at some point and have actually been here longer than it indicates.
No offense intended although I can see how it could have been read that way.

Being here longer is also not intended to provide evidence of my superior cred, but just my equal cred.

No further comments really necessary on my part either, I'm not really into playing games either, and it hasn't been my intent to do so.

[screembloodymurder]

13. Eat **it, Cali.

I'm tired of your confrontational responses to good posts. You suck.

[cali]

17. Yes, I'm sometimes

confrontational regarding posts I think are lousy. At least I refrain from telling people to eat shit. Or don't you think that counts as "confrontational"?

[screembloodymurder]

25. "Shove it" any better.

Yes it was meant to be confrontational.

[cali]

30. Look, I'm not going to debate the finer

points of whether shove it is worse than eat shit. I've expressed my regret for using that phrase (post 15). What you do is your business. What you say is your business. Me? I'm genuinely sorry I lost my temper, used a rude phrase to start a post, and set off this whole stupid chain of nastiness. I still disagree strongly with the "It's all so hopeless" stuff in the OP, but I take responsibility for touching off a particularly nasty thread.

[RestoreGore]

18. Oh, stuff it

REALITY is not doom and gloom. It was a legitmate question, especially considering that after supposedly THREE consecutive elections stolen in various states, people have questions as they should. What the hell would we do if the elections give Democrats just enough to not bring them what they need, but enough to make it look legitimate? Or even vice versa? If Democrats win in a landslide, you think that makes it look legit? Would you accept Democrats winning if they steal it? Hacking Democracy, the documentary on HBO already showed that this can happen to candidates on BOTH sides and showed what the memory cards are capable of. Why would the machines have that capability unless it was utilized? Perhaps you should then write to HBO and tell them not to carry this documentary because it is negative shit... rolling my eyes... And I thought this was America where we could "moan and groan" anytime we damn well chose to. That's why we never stood up as a people and did our duty in 2000 to keep these lying murderers from hijacking our govt... because of people like you.

[cali]

23. Ah yes, people like me

are solely to blame for 2000. Sure, that's why I went to DC to march. That's why I researched BBV. Of course, your logic is unassailable. Liberal activists like me are to blame.

My turn to roll MY eyes.

[EFerrari]

22. Because the day after the election is too late to address

election theft, to try to address the rational part of your post.

I agree we should be focused on GOTV. But are we so limited that we can't also use just one pulsing glia to make a contingency plan when the problems arise? To monitor the likely places for cheating?

And the "conspiracy" tag is so 2004. On my side I have Conyers, the GAO, Mark Crispin Miller, Robert Kennedy Jr, Avi Rubin, Steve Freeman, a host of distinguished progressives and increasing corporate media coverage. On your side, you have Faux News.

What are you doing to protect the election?

[BeFree]

29. This is what I am saying

Posters like cali think Al Gore and John Kerry are LOSERS. That the Dem party as a whole are LOSERS. That the American people really elected these Assholes to power.

You ask such a person for proof of their allegations and all they can say is that's how Diebold, et al counted the votes. That's all they got... bushco's word.

Meanwhile contrary evidence - not always proof, mind you - but real evidence is presented time and again. Evidence which can't help but lead an inquiring mind to conclude: something is terribly wrong.

Either one thinks Dems are losers and relegated to the dust-bin of history, or one thinks Dems are winners and the votes were not counted correctly.

Really, quite simple, don't you think?

[Mr_Spock]

32. Agreed

This doom and gloom crap is pointeless and can only serve to suppress votes.

This is just bad timing.

[mdmc]

3. beat

dont worry be happy

[blue sky at night]

4. and you know this how?

Perhaps it would be better to remain silent and appear ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. I too am sick of the gloom and doom...

[acmejack]

5. Another wit, or at least half of one.

[acmejack]

6. a good question.

I would like to know myself, but the starry eyed folks here have learned nothing from history and prefer to ignore the possibility of the worst. "We will not even entertain that notion"-said in the best Queen Victorian voice.

I don't know what we'll do & if I did, I wouldn't post it here...

[SaneInSC]

9. .

What you say is certainly plausible and I agree that whatever documentation people can gather should be kept. I don't see ANYTHING 'doom and gloom' about what you have said; indeed if things do occur as you suggest they might, then we will need to be prepared b4 the fact.

Its a fact that the voting systems are NOT secure from tampering. Its a fact that their are many, lets just call them 'unscrupulous people' at work here to ensure status quo (R) victories. I'm very hopeful that dems will take at least 1 body of congress.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Thats a saying. I didn't make it up. Seems wise. Facing reality..and learning and stuff.

[mmonk]

10. If that's the scenario, it's simple. We sue.

[onenote]

14. how are you supposed to keep a record of exit polls?

[debbierlus]

39. They post exit polls on news sites from local to national - these were change in 2004

So, the second you see an exit poll posted - save the data - and make sure you make a copy of it and don't just link the site because it may disappear...

Any and all information should be saved. Document, document, document.

And, video the vote. Write it down.

[EFerrari]

19. Have you volunteered for the Fraud Watch project yet?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2576577

We still need help there.

[H2O Man]

20. Curious thread.

The OP appears to reflect some of the nagging doubts that people have about the potential for election fraud. That is understandable, I suppose, considering what has gone on, especially from 2000 on.

We also read some quarreling that is more about personalities and people's tempers flaring over things that, were we not this close to the elections, would not be a blip on the screen. And here I thought it was just me that was feeling cranky, and who needed to watch his sharp tongue.

These are strange times. We are confronting a mentality that takes great joy in the prospect of hanging a human being.

[EFerrari]

24. LOL

:rofl:

[mmonk]

26. Amen brother. Love the picture.

It's really a hard time to keep one's head. Today, I go to a gathering to celebrate my and my mother-in-law's birthdays and some of the people are republicans (on my wife's side, none on mine). I dread it. Sad times.

[Zensea]

35. If This post (see link) is in response to threads like this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2580762

I'm on the same page with that.

As a side note, I wonder how many people know where that We're All Water photo is from and that it references a Lennon song.

[H2O Man]

36. The thread that

you provide the link to, is a result of having read this one.

[helderheid]

21. video the vote, get every movie and demonstration on how it can be hacked to

LOCAL election officials, never give up. And of course, vote - we need the exit polls to SCREAM fraud.

[screembloodymurder]

28. It's illegal to produce a paper trail in PA.

Imagine that.

[helderheid]

31. Actually, I think the lack of transparency is illegal, is it not?