"It was all oral except one time and we did use a condom,"

[kentuck]

http://www.coloradoconfidential.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=928

<snip>
The accused failed the polygraph test.

Or, rather, as the polygrapher in charge so delicately put it live on the Peter Boyles talk radio show this morning, the lie detector test he administered to Mike Jones showed "deception."

And now Boyles, along with Jones, and undoubtedly the phalanx of scorps, want to give Pastor Ted Haggard a polygraph test as well - to see who's really lying.

Specifically the polygrapher reported that Jones failed on the two questions: Did he lie when asked about his sex relationship with Ted Haggard, or did he lie when asked about his drug relationship with Ted Haggard?

....more

[Catherine Vincent]

1. All the juicy details?

:popcorn:

[kentuck]

3. Juicier...

Jones wore the condom. Peter Boyles asked him on his radio program this morning.

[Blackhatjack]

2. Too Late, Pastor Ted Already Admitted to "Some Not All" Allegations...

... you do not need a polygraph exam when the accused freely admits to an allegation.

THe next ethical question to examine will be what the Church's position will be regarding Pastor Ted if the accuser fails to pass another polygraph exam, but they know what Pastor Ted admitted to. Do they allow him to resume his leadership role? Do they keep what they know confidential? If they do not take action to prevent him from resuming his position, then are they not condoning his conduct and covering up a crime?

This could be a difficult situation for everyone concerned.

[NOLADEM]

4. Polygraphs don't work....They are a con, a scam.... A Ouija board is the same thing

In many states, polygraphs cannot be admitted. Why? Because they don't work. They are easy to decieve, and they give false positives a lot, and there are ranges of reactions a polygrapher has to interpret.

Basically, you are better off guessing.

There is an accusation.
The man resigns and acts guilty as shit.
He gives a pathetic interview.
He resigns.
The hypocrite admitted the contact to church elders.
There are recordings of him soliciting sex and drugs from the accuser.

Folks, we don't need a polygraph. This guy is toast.

Find the next one. Don't even acknowledge this polygraph shit. It leaves the impression his guilt is debatable. It is not.

[warrens]

13. All states, I believe

They have no legal standing. A sociopath can pass them easily, someone who is nervous or upset about something may be truthful and flunk. All they measure is anxiety.

I don't really care, anyway. A hatemonger has has his life fucked up, and that's fine with me. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[kestrel91316]

15. Nice summary. Thank you.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. The American Psychological Association on polygraphs:

http://www.psychologymatters.org/polygraphs.html

Most psychologists and other scientists agree that there is little basis for the validity of polygraph tests. Courts, including the United States Supreme Court (cf. U.S. v. Scheffer, 1998 in which Dr.'s Saxe's research on polygraph fallibility was cited), have repeatedly rejected the use of polygraph evidence because of its inherent unreliability. Nevertheless, polygraph testing continues to be used in non-judicial settings, often to screen personnel, but sometimes to try to assess the veracity of suspects and witnesses, and to monitor criminal offenders on probation. Polygraph tests are also sometimes used by individuals seeking to convince others of their innocence and, in a narrow range of circumstances, by private agencies and corporations.

The development of currently used "lie detection" technologies has been based on ideas about physiological functioning but has, for the most part, been independent of systematic psychological research. Early theorists believed that deception required effort and, thus, could be assessed by monitoring physiological changes. But such propositions have not been proven and basic research remains limited on the nature of deceptiveness. Efforts to develop actual tests have always outpaced theory-based basic research. Without a better theoretical understanding of the mechanisms by which deception functions, however, development of a lie detection technology seems highly problematic.

For now, although the idea of a lie detector may be comforting, the most practical advice is to remain skeptical about any conclusion wrung from a polygraph.

[buddysmellgood]

5. Did Haggard have phone sex with Bush during weekly conference calls?

[file83]

12. Something was going on. Yikes.

[rocktivity]

6. Those are improper questions

...Jones failed on the two questions: Did he lie when asked about his sex relationship with Ted Haggard, or did he lie when asked about his drug relationship with Ted Haggard?

Jones failed those questions because they aren't specific ENOUGH--when Jones was asked WHAT? By WHOM? About WHAT aspect of the sex/drug relationship? They should have been more along the lines of "Did you TELL THE TRUTH when you were asked were asked (by a particular person) that you had sex/took illegal drugs with Ted Haggard?"

:headbang:
rocknation

[MADem]

7. If he resigned, why is there a "panel" deciding his fate?

It seems someone twisted his arm and MADE him resign. And why won't they say WHICH claims he admits to? I think it's funny that they're trying to parse between drugs and sex! Like delaying the announcement is gonna help, somehow!!

See here: http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/4557411.html

sudden about-face in the scandal facing New Life Church's pastor.

After Pastor Ted Haggard went public Wednesday night denying allegations of a homosexual affair, senior church officials told KKTV 11News Thursday evening, Pastor Ted Haggard has admitted to some of the claims made by a former male escort. The church's Acting Senior Pastor, Ross Parsley, tells KKTV 11 News that Pastor Haggard has admitted to some of the indiscretions claimed by Mike Jones, but not all of them.

Thursday morning, Jones went on a Denver radio talk show and said Pastor Haggard paid him for sex over the past 3 years. Jones also claims Haggard used drugs with him.

Right now, the situation is under investigation by an independent panel of leaders from four outside churches. The leaders are from Colorado Springs, Larkspur, Westminster and Louisiana. The panel's role is to decide if Haggard will be exonerated, released from his duties or restored to his pastorship.

[Perky]

8. He resigned as prez of NAE... stepped aside as Pastor for the investigation

The panel is assessing his fitness to continue to pastor. If any of this is true he will resign the pastorate as well.

[Rosemary2205]

9. Many ministers work for the denomination not the church.

Haggard's church is in a conference. (a group of many individual churches) Those conference leaders can decide if a minister should loose his license to be a minister in their conference in addition to not working for that particular church. Another choice would be suspending him (giving him a sabbatical) for a period of time and monitoring whether or not he gets his life together - then decide whether to keep him as a conference minister and perhaps allow him to be an associate pastor at another church in the conference....etc.

[sui generis]

10. heh. OKAY so when I said I enjoyed it I was like, totally lying.

I faked all of the orgasms except one, and I used a recording for that one.

[Ian David]

11. Mike Jones is admitting to committing felonies.

First of all, polygraphs don't detect "lies." They detect physiological manifestations of stress. Most people feel more stress when they lie... hence the misnomer "lie detector."

They're not the most reliable machines in the world to begin with.

But it's very possible that his stress comes not from being deceptive, but from the knowledge that he's confessing to prostitution and drug dealing.

[kentuck]

16. Good points..

Possibly going to jail could make one a lttle nervous...

[Bandit]

14. All oral...Now we are going to hear how Clinton made that acceptable

It is all Clinton's fault don't you know. Republican hypocrites are NEVER at fault for anything...

[mhatrw]

17. He is a small time meth addict going up against a powerful leader.

Of course he failed the polygraph.

[SoCalDem]

18. Well that really depend on how you determine "when"

and lie to whom? police? NAE board members? the polygrapher?

Druggies LIE..they just do..

and the word "deception" is at issue too. perhaps this guy was trying to blackmail Haggard ,so of course he was deceiving someone..all the time.

[TahitiNut]

20. O what will they tell the children??

:eyes: