In the eyes of evangelicals, we're still worse.

[Jed Dilligan]

Before we get all excited about the latest outed-gay scandal, we should remind ourselves how the "other side" thinks about this issue.

When one of their own "slips up" like Haggard or Foley has, they are quick to point out that "everyone's a sinner" and "Jesus forgives if we repent." Their hypocrisy actually SAVES them in the eyes of their base: they sinned, yes, but at least they knew it was sin. Their view of homosexuality is that it is a difficult disease, like alcoholism, but one that can ultimately be "cured" if the person is willing to accept Jesus and fight the "sickness."

It is far, far worse in their eyes for a straight person to support gay rights. To them, it's like a well person saying that people with cancer should just be allowed to die. Openly gay people are probably somewhere in between on their scale of evilness. The only way to turn them against the hypocrites is by making them appear to be conspirators of some kind--but their public weepiness will be all that is needed to quell such doubts.

This is an unutterably sick mentality in my opinion, but because of it I doubt these outing scandals are doing as much harm to the GOP as some might hope.

I sincerely hope that we win by riding a wave of public opinion against Bush policies--not by suppressing the evangelical vote.

[BattyDem]

1. In other words ...

they have one set of rules for themselves and one set of rules for everyone else. Jesus would be so proud. :eyes:

[Jed Dilligan]

3. Well, that may be oversimplifying somewhat.

They have this complex theology whereby hypocrisy is a step between sin and not sinning. I'm sure Jesus of Nazareth would be amused, or ashamed, if he were alive to witness it.

It is repugnant, but we shouldn't oversimplify the way they think.

Not understanding makes us miss opportunities, as well. One Bible-thumping forgiveness of Clinton by Gore (vis a vis the BJ) and we could have unleashed Clinton on the campaign trail.

[neuvocat]

12. Well here's the thing...

the Bible has many references that are considered a way to cross-check one another so that the context isn't misconstrued (two great examples are here and http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1829560">here). As far as hypocrisy goes, there is a very clear line established in the bible against it (though it also says that by nature everyone does and must be forgiven by fellow churchgoers). It also takes a hard line against the kind of lying committed by the republicans as of late and that is a sin that is equally punishable as all others.

[BattyDem]

13. Their theology may be complex and they can rationalize their behavior any way they want ..

but to me, it still comes down to one simple truth:

They have one set of rules for themselves and one set of rules for everyone else, LOL. :D

You're right ... it's always wise to develop an understanding about why a group of people holds a particular point of view. But most of them have such an overly simplistic view of the world - good/evil, black/white, right/wrong - and as a result, there's no way to get through to them because there's no middle ground.

I honestly don't believe the die-hard Fundies would have forgiven Clinton or any Democrat because they look at the party itself as pro-choice, gay-friendly, anti-family and perhaps even anti-Christian. It's not possible to invoke reason or achieve a mutual understanding when you're dealing with a group of people who, without exception, believe their way is right and every other way is wrong. :-(


edited: typo :blush:

[Anakin Skywalker]

2. The Moderates and Non-Evangelicals Should See the Hypocrisy.

[Jed Dilligan]

4. I suppose that's true

And I'm not 100% or even 50% against outing--if for no other reason than that the thought of these double lives is sickening.

But the glee at what evangelicals supposedly will or won't do about it seems misguided IMO.

[seabeyond]

5. an holier than thou employee told me today, done with party...

gonna look at individual from now on. done with republicans. voting for bell for gov in tx. i said the kerry thing pisses me off, repugs just flat out lying. i hate lying. she agreed and said it all was stupid and so many more important things. get the troops out of iraq

a year ago she was talking about only watching fox and kerry evil and having to wear armor of god amongst all us evil liberals.

[Jed Dilligan]

6. That's encouraging

But anecdotal--she sounds like more of a thinking person than the average fundie.

[seabeyond]

15. she is. we talk the issues allover the place and politics the zombie

eyes. i would always be surprised how we agreed on so much all over the place, yet a wall with parties, bushco. a year ago she said she and her family prayer every night for bush. i asked if she did for clinton too, she turned blue. her sonwas caught in bathroom ripping out pages in a magazine. being 12 i assumed porno,.... was harry potter, and he was tearing up because harry potter is evil

otherwise, she is way open

[JuniperLea]

7. I think the main thing they are forgetting is...

'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.' Matthew 25:40

"Judge not, lest you be judged yourself. And the measure that you use shall also be put to you." Matthew 7:1-2

[asjr]

8. Well, screw them!

[Jed Dilligan]

9. Secretly

they would probably like that!

:evilgrin:

[BattyDem]

14. ROFL!

:rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Yeah, it's okay for the Vatican to protect Pedophiles, but women who take the pill

are "murderers" who should receive the death penalty.

[Jed Dilligan]

11. Very much so...

Which just proves that we will never win by convincing these people of ANYTHING. They are too twisted in their thinking.

[Odin2005]

16. Ugh, Evangelical does not equal Fundimentalist

There are plently of Evangelicals who are Dems (like my Grandmother, a life-long New Deal Dem).

[Jed Dilligan]

18. What are her views on gay rights?

[Homer Wells]

17. FLASH!!!!!

Haggard to enter Rehab for alcohol and methamphetamine abuse!

(Thats the headline I expect to see by Saturday)