SC's Election Commission must think we're really stupid.

[Rex_Goodheart]

Here's a card I received yesterday concerning South Carolina's new iVotronic voting machines, made mandatory at all precincts by state law:



Over on the left there it says:

Accurate

- The electronic touch voting system prevents you from voting for more candidates for a single office than is allowed.
- The touch screen system allows you to review your ballot and make changes.

Secure

- This touch screen voting system is not connected to a computer network or the Internet, preventing any hacking or manipulation of your votes.
- In the unlikely case of a recount, the entire election process can be replicated, including the production of all ballots for re-verification.
- Three independent memory locations ensure that no votes will be lost or altered.

The deficiencies and outright falsehoods on this flyer are readily apparent to anybody with a token amount of sense. I have to laugh to keep from crying.

[China_cat]

1. That, along with the 'my vote counts'

commercials, has me sitting here screaming bullshit at the tv.

[Hugin]

2. "In the unlikely case of a recount"

LOL!

Pure bald faced propaganda!

LOL!

At the same time... :scared:

[we can do it]

3. Take a Picture of Your Ballot After You Vote, Anyway- In Case of Failure...

of their new secure system.

[TheMadMonk]

6. Don't take that photograph unless it demonstrates a real anomally.

my reasoning here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x455345#455369

[jokerman93]

4. That font

This is hardly relevant but, is it just me, or is that white title font on the red background a lot like the monopoly board game logo? Monopoly, huh? The device design itself and this card have "Made by Matel" stamped all over them. The corporate elite and media don't make a secret of the fact they see the voting public as children. Cynical as I am, I have to wonder if this is just unimaginative design or an intentional inside joke.

Sorry, intentional or not, I have to laugh. In these last six years, American politics has exceeded Theater of the Absurd and charged far out into Circus Grotesque territory. The only bright spot is, when taken as just a spectacle, it can be entertaining at times.

J

[TheMadMonk]

8. Well, they're certainly brazen enough to do it if the thot had ocured.

nt

[blm]

5. Ask to see the test studies that PROVE their claim.

.

[rucky]

7. you don't need a network connection to hack a vote

much of the funny business in the past has been with switching out cards, and releasing corrupt code.

[sandnsea]

9. Where at?

If you've got proof of that, that would be a HUGE step forward in proving election fraud.

[rucky]

10. Going off the Princeton study.

http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/ts-paper.pdf

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14825465/

[sandnsea]

11. Article doesn't say where it happened

You said the 'funny business' happened with switched cards, I was wondering where that happened exactly.

[rucky]

12. If it happened, it was the perfect crime.

the virus covers its own tracks. all we can do is know it's been possible and suspect, and pray for more whistleblowers.

[sandnsea]

14. Oh

Well the way you said it, made it sound like you knew it had happened somewhere.

[BeFree]

13. The recent Princetown Study

Seems a couple of computer students at Princetown U. grabbed a diebold computer and set about examining said machine. Google will find you a few links on their report, others here may soon provide. Glad to see you taking a real interest in this issue, sandnsea, you are tenacious, and I am rest assured you will get to the bottom of this matter, ASAP.

[sandnsea]

15. Like I said

The poster made it sound like it was established that these tactics had definitely been used in a specific election. Apparently there's still no proof any votes on any machine have been intentionally altered.

[BeFree]

17. Ya got me there

While no court of law has entertained the notion of stolen votes by programming issues, there is a great body of evidence that votes have been altered. Intentional or not, the fact stands.

So then, an educated person who has studied the issue, can't help but come to the conclusion that given the history, the players involved, and given the outcomes where the machines are used, the machines have stolen votes.

I can see where someone like you who has not really pondered the whole situation would need an actual court case to help make up their minds. The idea that America has been stolen via the machines is such a large mountain to climb that the task is routinely discounted beforehand.

That's ok, there are enough folks who now comprehend the crisis that your understanding is not a factor. We will overcome.

[sandnsea]

19. Oh right

Haven't pondered the situation. My ass. I've torn apart every precinct in Ohio, many in Florida. Looked at others in Texas and Georgia and New Mexico, etc. etc. It's different machines, different companies, the vote switching goes both ways. The miscounts happen randomly, in small local elections as well as national. There's just NO evidence of any across the board voting machine conspiracy. The machines are horrible and need to be fixed - they probably would be if we'd focused on the endless glitches instead of intentional fraud. But hey, you keep screaming stolen election with no evidence and we'll keep getting nothing done.

BTW, the elections are being stolen through voter suppression, just like they've always done.

[BeFree]

20. You have?

.. It's different machines, different companies, the vote switching goes both ways. The miscounts happen randomly, in small local elections as well as national. There's just NO evidence of any across the board voting machine conspiracy. The machines are horrible and need to be fixed - they probably would be if we'd focused on the endless glitches instead of intentional fraud.


Ok, show me your evidence that the "vote switching goes both ways".

Show me the evidence you have that "miscounts happen randomly".

I have read hundreds of articles and have never seen your "evidence."

No evidence of "conspiracy"? What about the Tom Delay, Bob Ney - HAVA? You saying those crooks did not conspire to steal votes? C'mon. Your credibility just hit a new low.

In closing I'd just like to say that it appears to me that you think that Democrats are losers. That the American people actually wanted, and voted for the Publicans over our Democratic Party members.

See, I think Democrats won. I think John Kerry won. Do you think John Kerry won, or do you think Kerry lost?

[sandnsea]

21. Cherry-picking is always dangerous

Just goes to show.

You don't know votes were switched to Bush? Mark Crispin Miller himself says votes were switched to Bush. They weren't keeping a record of every voting mishap, so obviously they aren't going to have the record to fall back on. Doesn't change the fact that it happened.
http://www.sarasotadems.org/news.html

You're not aware machine miscounts happened randomly all over the country - not related to the Presidential election at all? Holy crikey - there were hoards of them.
http://www.votetrustusa.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1472&Itemid=26

And *I* don't have credibility?? That's a laugh. We don't talk about New Hampshire - why???

I don't know who won the 2004 election. I know they suppress the vote. I know they had a massive 'values voters' campaign in the churches that I didn't even know was going on, although a DUer warned about it. I know how easy it is for DUers to be duped - some people still think there were inspectors in Iraq in Oct 2002. I live in the west, I don't know what kind of information gets through in places like Ohio and Florida. Macacaboy is beating a Reagan Republican Veteran in Virginia - explain that shit. I don't know what the hell is going on with the voters in this country.

I do know it doesn't do a spit of good to rant about stolen elections if you've got no evidence. We'd have been leaps and bounds ahead to focus on the unexplained glitches in order to just get the damn machines fixed - which you should know I've advocated since Nov 3.

[BeFree]

22. Fair enough

But it seemed to me you were saying that the miscounts, vote changes, et al, were level, or equally affecting both parties. Anyone who has seriously studied those alterations knows that the tilt to bushco was far out of balance. Especialy MCM, and I am amazed that you would refer to him in your stance!

And there you go with that "no evidence" canard, again. Sheesh.

Then you have the exit polls. Remember when, years ago, before computers, etc. the news would accurately call elections as early as 5pm? Well, they did just that in 2004, but lo and behold, they changed after midnight.

Too bad you can't decide that the election was stolen. It must be hell to live with the feeling of indecision.

Kerry won.

[sandnsea]

23. The goal is clean elections

Pointing to elections with Republican screw-ups makes more people aware of the problems. Vote changing aside - I don't even know the party affiliation of every single candidate that had the various miscounting problems. I don't care. There's no excuse for any of it. Most people would agree if it had ever been presented in that manner - it wasn't.

And there you go with the exit polls again - what do you think I meant about New Hampshire?

You have evidence about particular machines that were hacked and how and by who? You're saying this happened all over the country - yet can't bring evidence on how it was done with one specific machine or by who.

What's really too bad is that so many have gone off on wild goose chases on these machines. With nothing but conjecture and intuition, people are as convinced of hidden codes and conspiratorial programs as the Bushies were convinced of WMD. And just like the Bushies, anybody who disagrees is branded a traitor. Adherance to rigid ideologies is always dangerous and the left is really just as bad as the right. I'd much much rather be undecided than be an accomplice in the left's version of the terrorist withhunt.

[Justice Is Comin]

24. The duck is waddling and quacking.

You have the Princeton study which proved that it took only ten seconds to open the machine with a key that can be bought at Home Depot or common to mini bars in hotels.

Then it took approximately sixty seconds to introduce their vote flipping virus and self destruct.

Then you have Clint Curtis in Florida, who was asked to deliberately design voting software that would have no other intention than to flip votes for one of the current most powerful House republicans, and he passed a lie detector test given by an FBI expert to prove he was telling the truth.

Then you assimilate them all together with what happened as outlined by the RF Kennedy story in Rolling Stone and you see the duck also has web feet.

That's close enough to a duck for me.

[sandnsea]

25. That's how we ended up in Iraq n/t

[wildbilln864]

16. Upstate of SC here and...

I think many here may well be stupid. I tried to post about these damned machines on my local message board here and the only response was from someone who declared that these machines were
perfectly safe and suggesting that they could be hacked or altered was just a crazy tin foil notion. I hate these machines and am so frustrated!
Where's the common sense?





BTW, GO INDIANS! #1

[BeFree]

18. Go here

The link below is to DU's own Election Reform Forum, probably the best place on the web covering this issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=203