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TIME MAGAZINE: Can This Machine be Trusted - 1 hour ago!!! (They lied too;)

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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:16 AM
Original message
TIME MAGAZINE: Can This Machine be Trusted - 1 hour ago!!! (They lied too;)
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 06:38 AM by autorank
They sort of get it but then they blow it. An outline of problems with voting machines in the opening section is followed by an acceptance of the 'glitches' in the system being tolerated until perfected. Oh and there's the whining corporate media calling Democrats complainers for speaking up about getting screwed (see bold para below). Oddly enough the line by elections officials about Democrats complaining MUST BE A LIE. Name one major Democrat who has challenged an election in the last three cycles? They probably made up the quote.


TIME Magazine 10.29.06
Can This Machine Be Trusted?





woman walked into a polling place in Peoria, Ill., last week and proceeded to use one of the new electronic voting machines set up for early voting. She logged on, went through each contest and seemed to be making her choices. After reviewing each race, the machine checked to see if she was satisfied with her selections and wanted to move on. Each time, she pressed yes, and the machine progressed to the next race. When she was done, a waving American flag appeared on the screen, indicating that her votes had been cast and recorded. But there was a problem. The woman had not made any choices at all. She had only browsed. Now when she told the election judges she was ready to do it again—but this time actually vote—they told her it was too late. Pressing the last button, they said, is like dropping your ballot in an old-fashioned ballot box. There's no getting it back.

So what?

So this: In one week, more than 80 million Americans will go to the polls, and a record number of them—90%—will either cast their vote on a computer or have it tabulated that way. When that many people collide with that many high-tech devices, there are going to be problems. Some will be machine malfunctions. Some could come from sabotage by poll workers or voters themselves. But in a venture this large, trouble is most likely to come from just plain human error, a fact often overlooked in an environment as charged and conspiratorial as America is in today. Four years after Congress passed a law requiring every state to vote by a method more reliable than the punch-card system that paralyzed Florida and the nation in 2000, the 2006 election is shaping up into a contest not just between Democrats and Republicans but also between people who believe in technology and those who fear machines cannot be trusted to count votes in a closely divided democracy. Perhaps the biggest fallacy in this debate is the notion that elections were perfect before Congress decided to hold them on computers. They weren't.

Snip

Concerns about fraud are heightened by the fact that with some electronic voting machines, there is no such thing as a real recount. When asked again for the tally, the computer could spit back the same response as the first time. For that reason, at least 27 states have built in a backup that requires electronic voting machines to provide an attached voter-verified paper trail—a running ticker that allows voters to see on paper that their votes are recorded as cast. That way, if there's a question about the electronic tally, the paper records can be counted by hand.

Snip


County election officials who spoke to TIME reported that most of the fears they field about the new machines come from Democrats, who have not won a national election in three cycles. It may be that a solid Democratic win in 2006 will allay some of their worries. It follows, of course, that if the Republicans lose, they will take up the charge. In fact, that's already happening in some places this year. My comment: "most of the fears...come from Democrats" Well, that wouldn't be the Democratic Party, which has taken a very low key approach to this issue. And it COULD NOT come from Democratic candidates. Which major or minor Democratic candidate has filed an election challenge? I bet they just pulled this out of their ears and made it up. Could be wrong but, even if quoted accurately, the quotation is so off base, its uncritical journalism to include such a stupid statement.


In a country of 300 million, it is far preferable for partisans, poll workers, defensive voting-machine manufacturers and voters to adjust to the new technologies, eliminate their weak spots and work to keep human errors to a minimum. In that way, voting by machine may someday be no more mysterious than making a visit to the ATM. My comment: Note their acceptance of electronic voting that they've described as inadequate. The prime value here is to demystify voting macines...NOT TO PROTECT THE RIGHT TO VOTE AND SEE THAT VOTE COUNTED, which 92% of Americans want. It's like we're living in 1984 with the Newsspeak magazines and newspapers writing only to condition us to accept their means of manipulation and control, in this case flawed voting machines which actually divert us from the larger issue in elections - the systematic disenfranchisement of poor and minority voters for decades - all without a computer involved.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yesterday on CNN
there was a segment on issues involving the potential abuses with computerized voting. Both people agreed that there simply has to be a paper trail, or the system is stripped of its integrity. I do not think there is a single good case to be made for not having the paper trail.

As always, thank you for providing great information on this issue.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Especially when the system is devised by a company who works for banks!
Banks demand paper trails longer than the economy size roll of 3-ply toilet paper.

Why note for votes, who cares who the person votes for?

Otherwise it adds a legitimate reasonable doubt - from EITHER party's point of view.


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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's a bipartisan issue and one of common sense.
You make the point very clearly.
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stellanoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. The aspect of this situation that is especially exasperating
is that as long as the Repugs are winning there is not a problem from their perspective and legislation that would insure reform languishes in committee and never makes it to the floor.

That coupled with the fact that every day, here and elsewhere I see and hear people singing the praises of optical scanners simply because they generate paper when their tabulators are totally hackable and if the margin of victory is rigged beyond 3-5% the paper is never scrutinized.

I've typed that paragraph so many times that I can do it with my consciousness "altogether elsewhere." Yikes

arghhhhhhhhhhh.

k & r'd
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Good morning & thank you. The best paper trail is the paper ballot;)
And that's the Gods honest truth. Having dispensed that (I'm only allowed to speak ex cathedra once a day), I have a question.

I read about Fitzgerald tearing Elizabeth Loftus to shreds on the stand (Loftus, Phd, memory "expert" and expert witness for many accused of sexual assault against children).
Can you tell me where can I get a copy of that court proceeding. I knew about her sometime ago and always found her to be just awful. I think it's called shadenfreud or something when you want to
watch someone you don't like knocked out for the count. I'm ready:evilgrin:
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I had read
that here on DU. I haven't seen much on it elsewhere. I was a little surprised that Judge Walton would have had this in an open hearing; however, it should then be part of the public record, and perhaps one of our favorite researchers will be able to add the transcript to the growing collection that has been put together.

"Professional witnesses" have always struck me as cheesy.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. especially 'Professional Witnesses' that do nothing else
for a living.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. I checked the research forum
Public Court Filings from Valerie Plame CIA Leak Scandal

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=358&topic_id=3589


The court proceeding is not yet added, but hopefully we can find it added soon.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. and open source code
there is absolutely no reason for the code to be secret. NONE!
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. ===============>LINK TO ARTICLE
http://tinyurl.com/yleo9r

Sorry I left this out.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. This isn't a surprise ,is that the surprise ? Mass Apathy ? Nope Kkkarl .*.
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 06:26 AM by orpupilofnature57
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'd settle for this issue to be addressed in the second 100 hours...
...otherwise you can hear a pin drop over the objections to the present crop of electronic voting machines from Democratic leaders.

Democrats winning in 2006 will NOT mean these systems are secure!

I do NOT want to go through a generation of the current winning party telling the current losing party to 'get over it' while nothing gets done. This is not just a federal issue, but individual states will not have resources to handle this.

AS THEY SHOULD - the federal gov't regulate banks, automobile safety, etc., etc. They can regulate voter machine security.

Is the problem that there's no political contribution money in getting better voting machines?
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:43 AM
Response to Original message
8. The lone "expert" on a CNN program yesterdaysaid it's the old poll workers'
fault if things go wrong Nov. 7.

One of the presstitutes opened what seemed would be a hard-hitting segment on e-voting but her only interviewee was a member of the self policing e-voting industry. While he talked about feeble old poll workers unable to run the equipment, they showed video of all over 70 year old pollworkers looking tired and confused. It was pathetic.

So just know that if there are mass "glitches," it's the old adle-brained American pollworkers' fault. Not Deibold, not ES&S, not the corrupt government, just those old farts. Blame the seniors. :grr: Fuck CNN.
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. The "few bad apples" again? Must be the ones from Abu Grahib then...
Them apples sure travel a lot....:shrug:
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Good morning Katina. There will be a surprise Part II post tonigh..
on "Protecting the Democratic Vote."

Well, all I can say is CNN is owned by Time. They're deathly afraid someone will come on any show they do in electron fraud and say, "Hey you guys must smoke a lot of crack to have missed the stolen electing of 2004, the 2002 mess in George, Hackett's elect io, the Ohio Special measures. Must
really be strong stuff huh?"
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Strong as the smell of money
One bright spot on the pathetic attempt to blame the seniors -- they pissed off a whole bunch of dedicated folks who have known about the potential for stolen elections for decades. Why else do they keep going back? I bet 90% of them are Democrats or independents.


Look forward to part 2.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. Well duh...
did they expect Republicans to complain?
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Yeah, why complain
So, it is "mainly democrats" that are complaining? Seems they dropped a word or two there... the sentence should have read "It has been mainly partriotic American citizens, nearly all of whom are members of the Democratic Party, raising this issue."
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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
17. It is OUR Country
They are OUR Elections

They need To Be OUR Machines!!!

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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. It is outrageous that they disregard citizens' distrust of the machines.
It is a basic truth that we are entitled to have transparency and confidence in our election process.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
18. Please provide a link
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Link
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks.
When I checked my e-mail my sister had sent the link to me.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 10:05 AM
Response to Original message
19. I think they meant Democratic voters in their counties. n/t
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. You're too kind.
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 06:55 PM by autorank
This just doesn't ring true. The protests have not been from those who you would identify as "Democrats," which clearly indicates that they represent the party in some form. When they talk about us, we're referred to as "conspiracy theorists," "nuts," or "activists." I've seen this elsewhere - supposed sources who deliver something that makes no sense when compared to reality but serves a particular purpose.

This article poses election fraud based on voting machines as a 'neutral' phenomena in theory instead of describing it in experiential terms - a phenomena which favors Republicans again and again. And that fits into a larger pattern of Republican generated voter suppression techniques (registration barriers, clearing registration lists indiscriminately or with the intent of excluding minority voters, "stacked" voter ID requirements, and the all time favorite, "spoiled ballots" which occur in minority areas at the highest frequency).

And of course, the article, like many others, ignores the CORE ISSUE CONCERNING ELECTION FRAUD - IT IS A RACE AND CLASS CRIME PERPETRATED AGAINST MINORITIES AND THE POOR. The hardly ever cover that despite the fact that for decades spoiled ballots have accounted for 1-2% of lost presidential votes -- impacting Democrats in te vast majority every time.

It's a rigged game supported by paid shills utilizing either ignorance or deliberate deception to keep our eyes off the true events, like a magician creates a diversion to perform his trick.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. A link would be great
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. My appologies. Link below
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. IMHO, this is going to be the year that Conservative Democrats win...
That will:

1.) "Vindicate" the voting machines.

2.) Help unite the country in preparation for an attack on Iran.

While

3.) Insuring that the gains made by the Unitary Executive are not reversed.

Lets see if I'm right...

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