Aussie cleric likens unveiled women to "uncovered meat."

[pnwmom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=412697&in_page_id=1770

A Muslim cleric's claim that women who do not wear the veil are like 'uncovered meat' who attract sexual predators sparked outrage around Australia yesterday.

SNIP

In a Ramadam sermon in a Sydney mosque, Sheik al-Hilali suggested that a group of Muslim men recently jailed for many years for gang rapes were not entirely to blame.

There were women, he said, who 'sway suggestively' and wore make-up and immodest dress "and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65 years. But the problem, but the problem all began with who?" he said, referring to the women victims.

Addressing 500 worshippers on the topic of adultery, Sheik al-Hilali added: "If you take out uncovered meat and place it outside on the street, or in the garden or in the park, or in the backyard without a cover, and the cats come and eat it..whose fault is it - the cats or the uncovered meat?

"The uncovered meat is the problem." He went on: "If she was in her room, in her home, in her hijab (veil), no problem would have occurred."

Women, he said, were 'weapons' used by Satan to control men."

SNIP

[MuseRider]

1. Well now

isn't that special? Makes the perfect end to my day. Meat huh? The responsible party is the victim. What a guy.:banghead:

[K8-EEE]

2. Really crappy religion....

No religions are that attractive to me but this one seriously sucks.

[originalpckelly]

54. This kind of crap is in the bible, and fundamentalist jews/christians...

act(ed) the same way too. (Think Warren Jeffs type people and the Haredi sects in Israel.) But then came the reformation and the age of reason, and that killed a lot of this bullshit.

What I wouldn't give for a women's lib movement in the Muslim world.

We also need a non-violent Gandhi/Dr. King kind of person too, to stop all this violence in the name of religion.

Of course the saddest part is that Muslim WOMEN also believe in this, some of them actually want to wear fucking burqas because they feel they are going to suffer the wrath of you know who if they don't.

[pnwmom]

58. That's the core of the problem.

Fundamentalists, especially those on the extreme end, want to turn back the clock to before the age of reason.

[WildEyedLiberal]

3. Okay - where are all the cultural relativists now?

Anyone want to argue that this is not sexist bullshit?

Fuck any "religion" that says women are "meat" and "weapons" designed by "Satan" to "tempt men." We don't give fundie Christianity a pass for its disgusting sexism - why should fundie Islam get a pass either?

[Ravenseye]

8. He says it, not the religion

Islam doesn't say that women are meat or any of the other BS he spouts. He's a sexist racist asshole, and he's an extremist. He doesn't represent Australian muslims, just his own pitiful little mosque and PR agent.

I know many Australian muslims, from doctors to businessmen to a member of the Australian SAS, and this guy doesn't speak for them or represent them.

Fundie Islam shouldn't get a pass at all, as long as you recognize that this guy is as extreme as the Dobsons or worse in this country.

[MuseRider]

12. Exactly.

I have some experience, not a lot, but some with friends. I have been to the Mosque as a guest and as a woman I felt comfortable and never saw any overt sexism. This is most likely not typical, just from the extreme fundamentalists just like in any other religion.

[Ravenseye]

14. Definately not typical

sadly though too common these days. Oppressed people, or people who think they are oppressed, tend to flock to extremists. THey also get the most press. You don't hear about the tens of thousands of progressive and moderate muslims for the 500 or so extremists that attend his Mosque.

Extremist religion, of any stripe, is dangerous to our planet, but it's important not to equate one lunatic's words with an entire body of people.

[pnwmom]

17. He's not atypical for Egypt, is he?

Women are routinely the ones punished for rape in fundamentalist Muslim countries. The reason he appears atypical is because he's in Australia.

[Ravenseye]

24. He'd be more typical there

I think he'd still be considered somewhat radical there as well. Saudi Arabia and most of the Arabian Penninsula he'd feel right at home in though. It's cultural more's given weight by religion. I know and am related to many muslims (all over the world) of all stripes from full veils to barely veiled, to no veils, and only the small group of relatives that the rest of my family referes to as Cuckoo's would be in line with this guy.

Even in the middle east (outside of a few of the most extreme countries) though the media always gravitates to the guy saying the most crazy things. The moderate cleric's preaching tolerance who don't have PR agents rarely get the front page news.

[woo me with science]

20. Yeah, I'm sure the REAL purpose of the veils

is to avoid melanoma. :puke:

[Ravenseye]

25. Did I say that?

The purpose of the veil is the same purpose as a bikini top. Culturally influenced modesty in women.

If a woman were to walk down the street of New York topless she'd get some cat calls and harrasment, probably even be arrested. It's the same concept. Culturally, and yes Religiously, induced modesty and shame of our bodies, particularly women's bodies, as a form of sexualization, belittlement, and oppression.

[Matariki]

35. yeah, but the less women wear, the more men get OVER it

used to be in THIS culture that seeing a woman's knee drove men to distration. men. *sigh*

[pnwmom]

49. Knees? It was ANKLES in my grandmother's day!

Yes, we have made progress. No thanks to fundies anywhere.

[pnwmom]

19. There are countries filled with men no more conservative than he.

It is only when a cleric like this speaks out in a non Muslim country that he would get a lot of attention.

[kestrel91316]

22. My question is: if he wants to live in the 7th century, why on earth

does he live in Australia???

He sounds like he would be more at home in some Afghan backwater.

[pnwmom]

26. Like other religions, they believe in evangelizing.

There are Muslims all over the world now, though the religion started in the Middle East.

[MuseRider]

23. That is true.

I think I was trying to make the point that it is the men not the religion. I usually stay out of these threads so I may not have all the facts but that is what I seem to recall. As angry as I get about the treatment of women here I am enraged when I see and hear this.

[pnwmom]

28. Right. It is the men. They use the religion to control women.

But nothing in the Koran, as I understand it, requires anything like a burqu or niqab.

[pnwmom]

16. He's obviously an extremist, but tell me, what is the

"mainstream view" on burqas or niqabs?

Post #4 has a quote from National Geographic that says:

"Most accept the veil for privacy and protection from male harassment, not as a symbol of oppression. . . "

If the veil is worn as protection from male harrassment, that sounds like oppression to me.

[PsychoDad]

63. The "Mainstream view"...

Depends on which country you are in.

Niqab is mostly Saudi Arabia and nearby countrys, Berkah is Afghanistan. African Muslim women often wear ornate turban like headcovers.

Look at women in Indonesia, the largest Muslim country, to see what they wear. (And you may conclude that the majority of Muslim women dress that way as the majority of Muslim women may be found there, not the middle east.)









And m,any wear no head covering at all.

Peace.

[pnwmom]

67. I realize that many Muslim women wear only hair coverings, or no

veils at all.

But I wanted to know what the "mainstream view" was that justified burqas or niqabs. Neither is required by the Koran. I've never seen an argument for full veiling other than it protects a woman from harrassment, or that it protects men from temptation. Either argument advocates the oppression of women.

[PsychoDad]

74. Clothing contains visual clues.

We dress differently when we have a board meeting, going to church or when we go clubbing. Is our choice of clothing due to oppression, or culture. Are the two intertwined?

Why does a business woman dress more like a man when she is in the board room? Particularly if she holds a management position in a large corporation. Is it due to male oppression? How about how she dresses when she goes clubbing, or to the beach? Is it totally her decision, or is it influenced by a culture where sex roles have been defined by centuries of male domination?

And continue to be through advertising and peer pressure.

Anyway, what the niquab states clothing wise in the Middle East is "Men- Leave me alone", "I am not looking for a partner", etc. When a Muslim woman chooses to wear niqab it is because she expects respect from it.

Just as a western woman might expect respect when she wears a business suit.

And I do agree, the Quran does not require either niqab or berka. They are purely cultural.
As for the "Mainstream" view, I think they would say,"It's the way we always dressed". It's traditional and cultural.


Like bras and bikinis :)

Peace.

[pnwmom]

77. Why should you have to cover yourself from head to toe

to signal to a man "leave me alone"? Do men have to cover themselves from head to toe so that they can be left alone?

The imam in the article, who attracts 10,000 followers to his weekly sermons, said if women wore veils and stayed home they wouldn't be attacked. That city had had a series of gang rapes involving Muslim men (citizenship not stated in article) raping Australian-born women.

With religious leaders like that, no wonder many women feel that they must wear a full covering in order to be "left alone."

[Clark2008]

68. Then so is a bra...

Just saying..

[pnwmom]

72. And if any other fundie excuses rape on the basis

that the woman didn't wear a bra, I'll be the first to speak out, believe me.

[pnwmom]

32. What does the article mean when it says the guy

is the nation's "most senior cleric"?

Does that just mean he's the oldest? Been around the longest? Or is there some heirarchy?

[PsychoDad]

64. No heirarchy in Sunni Islam.

And no "Clerics".

Perhaps he is Shia?

Peace.

[pnwmom]

69. He's from Egypt. Does that tell you anything?

[PsychoDad]

83. Probably Sunni....

Maybe they call him a "Senior" Imam or Cleric because he has been in the country the longest, or he is the senior Imam at that Masjid.

I don't know.

Imam is simply the title of whoever leads the prayers although in many western mosques the kutbah, or friday sermon is given by the same person.

Heck, I could probably call myself Grand Mufti of the Unided States :P

In any case it doesn't make what he said any more respectable or right.

Nor would I wish to pray behind him, knowing his view of Women and Muslim men. Both of which he insulted.

Peace.

[pnwmom]

87. Peace to you, PsychoDad.

[pnwmom]

65. It's not a "pitiful little mosque." He speaks weekly to 10,000

followers, according to this article.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/27/wmeat27.xml

Thanks to his position at Lakemba, where his sermons attract 10,000 worshippers every week, he is often seen as the spiritual leader of Australia's 300,000-strong Muslim community. In fact, his tenure is far from secure. Many moderate Muslims regard him as a liability — and have been quick to join non-Muslims in condemning his most recent outburst.

[Ravenseye]

91. I've seen different numbers

Closer to 500 regular worshipers.

[Clark2008]

66. Thank you.

That's not the religion - that's some scared little wimpy man saying that crap.

They cover in deference to Allah - has nothing to do with little, scared wimpy men.

[pnwmom]

The Koran doesn't require a full veil. Burqas and niqabs

are a way for men to control women.

[pnwmom]

9. I have noticed a tendency on the part of some DU'ers

to make excuses for the excesses of fundie Muslims that they would NEVER make for fundie Christians.

Almost makes me want to be an atheist. Things would be so much simpler.

[woo me with science]

30. Yes, I wonder if they will defend the Baptists, too:

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/aremen.htm

[pnwmom]

31. Sick, sick, sick!

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[tenshi816]

98. Heh. Reading that article, I got a mental picture

of the author drooling into his keyboard as he typed this paragraph:

"What is modest clothing? To answer this, simply consider what is attractive to a man. The woman's figure, for one thing. If she wears clothing that sharply accentuates her figure, she is causing men's attention to be drawn to that part of her, and I contend that she is causing men to lust. This would include tight pants, bathing suits, tight shorts, tight tops and sweaters, and tight or clinging dresses. A modest dress is one that is long enough to cover the thigh (Isaiah 47:2) and that is not tight and clinging and that is not revealing."

I met some like that in rural Georgia when I was growing up (in fact, after I was already grown).

[Ms. Clio]

108. but the people who go out of their way to demonize Muslims never post things like THAT

oddly enough.

[smirkymonkey]

44. You notice that too, huh?

The hypocrisy here can be astounding at times.

Fundie Christian = Bad
Fundie Muslim = Good

[readmoreoften]

61. extremist religion is cultural poision.

Islamic Theocratic Culture, relative to a secular culture is morally inferior, in my opinion. In relation to Christian Theocratic Culture, it's six or one-half dozen as far as I'm concerned.

[Dorian Gray]

104. The Koran doesn't state that.

One Imam stated that. Different people have different interpretations. I detest what he said, but you can't attribute it to all of Islam.

[whistle]

4. Put away your Playboy pin-ups folks

http://www.ece2.engr.ucf.edu/~kba/world.html

[pnwmom]

13. Some of the pictures are beautiful, some sickening.

Designer veils! Yves Saint Laurent, no less. Who would have thunk it.

"Most accept the veil for privacy and protection from male harassment, not as a symbol of oppression."

In my opinion, if a woman has to wear a veil for protection from male harrassment, then she is OPPRESSED.

[woo me with science]

38. Lovely pictures, but they left one out.

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/002439.html

June 29, 2006
Iran: Islamic Justice - Woman Adulterer To be Stoned To Death, Murderers Get Jail




btw, I share pnwmom's amazement that the women wear the veils as "protection from male harassment, not as a symbol of oppression."

That's quite a distinction, there. :sarcasm:

[pnwmom]

48. One of the worst pictures I had ever seen. What a horror.

Thanks for posting it, though. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

[Matariki]

50. wow - look at those guys

you have to be a really evil heartless fucker to do that to another human being. darth cheney would be right at home with these guys. but it's a .cultural issue. and it's wrong to have an opinion on it :sarcasm:

[WildEyedLiberal]

53. Sorry - FUCK any culture that condones that.

What a horrifying picture. I have ZERO "respect" or "tolerance" for that kind of EVIL.

[Clark2008]

70. Not that it's a great practice, but Muslim men are also stoned

to death for adultery.

It's an equal-opportunity barbaric culture in that regard.

[pnwmom]

75. But women are stoned to death for RAPE.

Where's the equal opportunity there?

[Ravenseye]

5. He's a kook

They refer to him as a Senior Imam or Grand Mufti of Australia. Both BS titles. No such thing in Islam. Each mosque is independent. Each imam is independent. There is no authority. This is just an asshole who manipulated the Australian immigration laws in order to stay there in the first place.

The media loves to cover the crazy people, and this guy loves to be covered. Match made in heaven.

[Irreverend IX]

46. It seems to me there is some power structure...

In Iraq, you have Al Sadr and Sistani and their underlings. And I'm sure most sects, from the Wahabbis to the Ismailis, have groups of people who set the tone for the belief system, maybe not de jure but de facto. (And the Ismailis in particular have Aga Khan.) But I doubt this guy is anything like that. Sounds like an attention whore who lucked into his 15 minutes.

[pnwmom]

52. No, he's more than that. He's the most senior cleric in the

country, according to the article in the OP. And in another article, I read that he preached this sermon to 500 followers on Ramadan. Four women had each been gang-raped by men in his congregation, and he was complaining about their sentences and blaming the women for not staying covered up and indoors.

What made you think he was an "attention whore"? His daughter has been complaining that he's getting this attention, saying that he's just a "sick man" who was preaching to other old men about how they should take care of their daughters.

[Irreverend IX]

80. Reporters can be depressingly credulous sometimes.

Look up the recent Washington CeaseFire story in the Gungeon for a good example. And 500 followers--that's small potatoes compared to some of the US megachurches.

[pnwmom]

82. He actually speaks to 10,000 followers weekly.

The 500 was how many attended that particular sermon. And there are tapes of his sermons, so it's not a matter of a reporter's credulity.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/10/27/wmeat27.xml

"Thanks to his position at Lakemba, where his sermons attract 10,000 worshippers every week, he is often seen as the spiritual leader of Australia's 300,000-strong Muslim community. In fact, his tenure is far from secure. Many moderate Muslims regard him as a liability — and have been quick to join non-Muslims in condemning his most recent outburst."

[Irreverend IX]

84. "In fact, his tenure is far from secure."

Well, there you go. Robertson, Falwell, Dobson etc. could be seen by some as the "spiritual leaders" of US Christians, in the sense that they speak with the loudest voices among Christians, but in truth they're nothing so lofty.

[pnwmom]

88. They ARE spiritual leaders here, and they influence millions of people

and I CAN'T STAND THEM EITHER.

[pnwmom]

55. He's a kook giving his Ramadan sermon to 500 followers.

In a larger congregation that includes a group of men who gang-raped four women.

Great.

I wouldn't be making excuses if this was a Christian fundie making the same sermon.

[Shakespeare]

6. But, hey! Let's have another chorus of "we have to respect their culture."

:banghead:

Somebody'll chime in to defend this. They always do.

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. "But it's their religion!"

Yeah, and some religions mandate an automatic death penalty for homosexuals.

Some religions mandate female genital mutilation.

Sorry, I WILL NOT respect ANY "religion" or "culture" that promotes the degradation of women or homosexuals or ANY human being. That goes for any subsect of Christianity, Islam, and whatever the hell else.

[smirkymonkey]

43. I have no way of proving it, but I strongly suspect that those crying

out for "cultural respect" secretly approve of their misogyny. Do they ever use that excuse when injustices are being committed against men throughout the world? No. Just like the Christian fundy "pro-lifers" who claim that they want to "save the children" when we all know their real goal is to punish women for being sexual.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more I believe that religion is nothing more than a big patriarchal racket with the sole purpose of oppressing the female half of the population.

[pnwmom]

57. Certainly many religions seem to have been designed

with that purpose in mind.

[Quantess]

81. No, I don't HAVE TO respect their culture.

You can't make me respect subhuman behavior.

[porphyrian]

7. Cats cause adultery? What the fuck is he smoking? - n/t

[Rex]

10. Trying to justify rape, sounds like the Old Boys Club.

But, yer honor she was asking for it! Just look at how she dresses! I guess the truth here is that women are not safe from predatory men, no matter what they wear. And the idea that their actual flesh is offensive, yet erotic. Might as well go back to living in caves. Just, how crazy must someone be to try and justify rape? Ape-shit crazy IMO.

[woo me with science]

15. Yup, shoulda been in that veil.

That wonderful veil that was so fiercely defended here by supposed "progressives" a few days ago. Yeah, let's celebrate that cultural diversity in all of our elementary schools!

[rpannier]

18. The most interesting spin

was when his friend said the loonie cleric was referring to adultery.
I'm curious as to how this quote by the cleric has anything to do with adultery
"...and then you get a judge without mercy and gives you 65 years."
The only people sentenced to 65 years for sex related crimes were some Muslim men who were involved in gang-rapes.

[pnwmom]

21. I noticed that, too, rpannier.

Didn't make any sense to me.

[Thickasabrick]

27. Giving this guy the attention he is getting is as bad as giving

Falwell and Phelps air time. Why do people give a shit what these freaks say?

[pnwmom]

29. Because he's inciting to rape. Because he influences his

followers. That's why the Aussies are upset. He's telling the men and women in his congregation that it is women's fault when they are raped. That's disgusting.

And I think it's relevant here because his attitude, though extreme, underlies why women do wear the full veil or burqa. It isn't required by the Koran. They are trying to stay safe from attacks by men.

Women in the U.S. shouldn't ever have to live that way.

[Thickasabrick]

33. Again, he's a nut. Falwell was inciting an assassination of a

foreign leader. They are equally as bad. If people would quit listening to them or giving them attention - they would fade into the obscurity they belong in.

[pnwmom]

34. According to the article, the "nut" is

the most senior Muslim cleric in Australia. His followers do pay attention to him, and some of them were found guilty of rape. Now he's complaining about their prison sentences, and blaming Australian women for not being veiled.

I can't stand Falwell. But the one insane fundie doesn't excuse the other.

You say "if people would quit listening to them." We can't stop their followers from listening to them. But we should also make our own voices heard. Staying silent in the face of wrong is . . . wrong.

[Matariki]

Amen Sister

[Thickasabrick]

40. True - although 10 years ago reporters were not hanging on every

word that came out of these idiots mouths. Times have certainly changed.

[woo me with science]

42. and your point is? nt

[pnwmom]

45. This man, billed as the most senior cleric in the country,

spoke this sermon in front of 500 followers on Ramadan. He made references to 4 women who had each been gang-raped by a group of men in his congregation. Like it or not, that qualfies as news.

[Ravenseye]

92. No such thing as a senior cleric

You've mentioned it a few times because the article refered to him as a senior cleric. It's just ignorance on the part of that writer. There is no such hierarchy. He's completely independent and holds no position over any other imam in Austrailia or elswhere. The 10,000 figure of worshipers comes from their PR agent.

[pnwmom]

94. And how do you know he has a PR agent?

Surely not all Imams have them.

[Ravenseye]

95. It's been mentioned

Usually the PR guy comes afterwards to 'explain' what he really meant or to show how it was 'taken out of context'.

Most imams are like most priests and would laugh at the idea of having a PR agent, which just goes to show how absurd this guy is.

[pnwmom]

96. He looks absurd to us, but he's got a

number of followers who are listening to his rantings. Whether it's a thousand, or five thousand, or ten thousand -- doesn't that concern you?

[Ravenseye]

99. Sure it does

He concerns me alot, for a number of reasons. Any religious extremist scares me and concerns me, but guys like this take the cake.

I'm not condoning what he's saying or defending his right to say it, or claiming we need to respect his ideas. I'm not saying that we shouldn't be concerned with him.

I'm saying, in various ways through my posts, that this guy does not represent ALL Muslims, and not even all Australian muslims. Not even the majority. People in this thread and elsewhere read a guy like this and slam the entire religion, when it's akin to hearing someone like Dobson say his own crazy things, and he's got followers, or any of the other extremist religious nuts in this country, and use that to portray all Christians in a negative light.

[pnwmom]

100. I totally agree with you there. I know it is frustrating for me

when I find myself having to defend Christianity against people who equate it with the fundies. And I don't equate being Muslim with being fundamentalist, either.

That being said, I find myself being more and more opposed to fundamentalism in general. (Any religion) I think it's a very dangerous trend. And when I see a woman hooded and bagged up in a burqa (fortunately, not often), I have a visceral reaction. . . as if she was on a leash.

[woo me with science]

41. Thank you.

The hypocrisy on this issue is sickening.

[Zenlitened]

36. This whole "rationale" for the veil is insulting to women AND men alike.

Religion. What a trip. :crazy:

[Generic Other]

37. "...to control men..." The operative words

Castration might work. After all, it's just a piece of meat, right?

[StellaBlue]

39. Why don't these assholes tell the RAPISTS to stay in THEIR rooms?

Huh?

HUH???

:sound of crickets chirping:

Dickwad. I hope his turban ignites.

[Mr_Spock]

47. I heard the moron apologized for this a couple hours ago

...like an apology is going to cover his bigoted misogynist comment :(

[pnwmom]

60. Since they're seriously talking about deporting him,

he probably felt it was necessary.

[Quantess]

51. I hope Australia deports his ass. (no text)

[pnwmom]

62. If this was happening here, would DU'ers be opposing deporting him?

On the grounds of cultural relativity?

[Quantess]

71. Some DUers would.

But I dare say, a lot of us would be pushing to get his worthless can booted out of this continent! America has to have some standards.

Sorry, but I don't have to accept that kind of barbarism, just because it's someome's culture. Screw that!

[Ms. Clio]

109. yes, because it's not a deportable crime to be a religious nutcase

you want to deport all the Irish and Italian priests who hold equally obnoxious views?

[Marie26]

56. Barf. n/t

[youthere]

59. Hey Sheik al-Hilali, if I'm uncovered meat...

you can just EAT ME.

[BlooInBloo]

73. So? He's a cleric. Consider the source.

[Quantess]

76. ?What did you mean by that?

He's a fundie?

(I sort of wish the English language had the upside down punctuation at the beginning of sentences, that Spanish has. It's a good feature).

[BlooInBloo]

107. I think it's a semantically useless feature... tho it might be...

... aesthetically pleasing.

[pnwmom]

78. So? He's got 10,000 followers listening to his rantings

every week. I'm glad I'm not living in a city with a preacher like him.

[BlooInBloo]

85. It's true. Just for that reason I'd rather bitch about the 10,000...

... jackasses, than him. That's just me tho - there's the guy who tells you to act like a fucktard, and then there's your choice to do it. I'll blame the follower first, and only later get to the teller.

[pnwmom]

89. Certainly the rapists are most immediately

responsible for their behavior. I agree with you on that.

But I also think that the attitude that the Imam espouses -- that is tied with wearing a full veil -- is extremely oppressive to women.

[BlooInBloo]

106. The only harm in it is when 10,000 people go along with him...

... Thus my emphasis on the people.

It's just a difference of approach - we agree on what's good and bad here.

[seabeyond]

79. i would truly be pissed if i were a man being talked about that way

doesnt say a whole lot for men. really says nothing about the woman. but suggesting a man is so weak, helpless .... well, pretty bad.

[PsychoDad]

90. Perhaps it was simple projection on his part. (nt)

[pnwmom]

93. That sounds like a reasonable theory.

And he's probably not the only one.

[TankLV]

86. Well - "meat" would NOT have been the type of animal that would immediately

come to mind...

[tenshi816]

97. That's an insane analogy.

The bit about the cats and the uncovered meat, that is. To answer his question, it's still the fault of the cats if they eat the meat and it's still the fault of the men if they can't control their own urges, no matter what the provocation is.

I remember once, travelling through Kashmir in northern India, being told by a Muslim that women had to cover themselves completely because otherwise men couldn't control themselves and that if a man attacked a woman, it was her fault for tempting him.

I ain't buyin' it.

[pnwmom]

101. I don't either. It should be obvious to the imam

that almost all Australian men can and do keep their hands off the women they pass in the streets, no matter what the women are wearing. There is no reason all Muslim men can't do the same thing. Instead, some of them are being taught the opposite, by people like this imam. If the imam wants to blame someone for the youths who gang-raped the women, maybe he should be looking in the mirror.

[oblivious]

102. Hilaly apologises for offending women

Senior Muslim cleric Sheikh Taj el-Din Al Hilaly has apologised for any offence caused by a sermon in which he reportedly laid the blame for sexual assault on women who do not cover their bodies.

The Sydney cleric reportedly compared women to uncovered meat during a sermon last month.

There has been swift condemnation from politicians, including Prime Minister John Howard.

Sheikh Hilaly has issued a statement saying he was speaking about the causes that lead to fornication, and that he condemns rape.

He has unreservedly apologised to any woman offended by his comments, insisting he only intended to protect women's honour.

In his statement, Sheikh Hilaly says women in Australia have the freedom and right to dress as they choose.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200610/s1774508.htm

google:
http://news.google.com.hk/nwshp?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&q=Sheikh%20Hilaly%20

[Ms. Clio]

110. oh, that won't be good enough for some

lynch him, damn it!

[Dorian Gray]

103. Disgusting and vile....

that's what those statements are.

They are not only offensive to women, who are the "rotten meat!," but they are offensive to men, as well. Assuming that men are like beasts who can not control their urges. They must take what is in front of them without the ability for self-control. Insulting and horrible.

[Odin2005]

105. I will pummel any cultural relativist who defends this fucker

This asshole is spewing the same old "women are asking for it" BS. It's crap that sexist towards BOTH men and women (it assums that us men don't have any comtrol over our sexual urges).