Why Not Universal Health Care Coverage?

[MoseyWalker]

Why not? In the "richest" country in the world, why shouldn't those with health needs be taken care of without having to worry about losing everything they spent their lives building?

I want to hear reasons why this does not exist.

Thanks

[JeffR]

1. I just wanna know how YOU are doing?

How've you been?

As to universal health care, every civilized western nation has it. The USA doesn't. Res ipse loquitur.

[Change has come]

46. Me too.

How have you been? I was just wondering earlier tonight.

[pooja]

2. Because insurance industry and healthcare industry are big

contributors to buying off politicians. This is the only reason.

[Nikia]

31. Definitely

I think that the events of recent years (rising health insurance premiums, limited treatment options/services provided by HMOs) have proven to most Americans this need. I think that most business's who subsidize employees insurance policies feel this way too.
It is the insurance companies.

[JeffR]

3. BTW, K & R

[MoseyWalker]

5. thanks friend

I'm asking this because I'm tired, and have been dealing with a family members serious, terminal illness for the past few weeks, and am pissed. I'm seriously pissed at what I have had to do, and what he has to do to try and keep the vultures away from his lifetime savings because of an ILLNESS.

[JeffR]

14. Check. It's the great unanswered question of American politics

and a national disgrace.

How's your health?

[Demobrat]

4. Follow the money

right into the coffers of the insurance companies. Health care, like everything else in this great land of ours, is about profits, not people.

[SmokingJacket]

6. Because Americans don't want THEIR money going for OTHER

PEOPLE'S health care.

That's all -- that's the whole damn reason.

(I'd pay half my income to be assured that *every* person had a roof over their head, three decent meals, and all the health care they needed. That's the kind of country I want us to be.)

[MoseyWalker]

8. You got it, I think

I would do the same.

It seems people in this country work all their lives to accumulate a small amount of financial safety, and it's then taken away from them in one fell swoop because they are sick.

because they are sick and can no longer contribute to the capitalist ethos.

Nothing new, but it's enough to piss a person off. What are people thinking? Where are the priorities that should be discussed prior to an important election?

[JeffR]

15. I've seen polls indicating most Americans support it

Sorry I don't have a link handy, and I have no idea how accurate the polls are about this. But there's certainly way more support for this than is reflected by the (non)action of elected members of both parties, I believe.

[Warren Stupidity]

17. Here you go:

In an extensive ABCNEWS/Washington Post poll, Americans by a 2-1 margin, 62-32 percent, prefer a universal health insurance program over the current employer-based system. That support, however, is conditional: It falls to fewer than four in 10 if it means a limited choice of doctors, or waiting lists for non-emergency treatments.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/US/healthcare031020_poll.html

Those results have been replicated in other major polls over and over and over again.

As a follow up question, why do neither of the major political parties support a program that the american public supports by a 62-32 percent margin?

And os to the poster you responded to: stop buying the bullshit, you are being lied to.

[JeffR]

24. Thanks, WS

:toast:

[Vidar]

44. Thanks for the information.

[SmokingJacket]

35. Well, certainly, you could be right.

I guess I was talking about the anti-faction -- which exists, and I'd be happy if they were a minority.

[hedgehog]

19. Obviously you've never heard about what a terrible country

Sweden is because millionaires pay such a hefty tax there! I think it was Ingmar Bergman who had to leave because of all the taxes he paid. So sad!

[wysi]

7. We were close in 1993

... but then we had the bullshit scare campaign and the "revolution" the next year. Now I fear that it will never happen.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. Not really.

The Clinton plan was a piece of corrupt bullshit that deserved to die. The major goal appeared to be to keep Big Pharma and Healthco satisfied, not to provide a quality reasonable and efficient universal service. Here is my plan: 1) extend medicare to everyone; 2) scrap that hideous plan D monster for a decent plan that reduces costs and does no subsidize HealthCo; 3) extend medicaid elder care, in home and institutional, to everyone without income qualification. My plan could be implemented within 30 days using the existing medicare and medicaid infrastructure. It would be funded through the FICA payroll tax.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

34. I agree about the Clinton plan

It was all about enrolling people in private HMOs and keeping costs down through "managed care." That was the first time I ever heard that word, which rightfully strikes terror into the hearts of patients and doctors alike. It means that medically untrained clerks using a pre-printed chart make decisions about whether your care is covered.

Clinton didn't have the political courage to institute and propose TRUE national health care (despite the fact that Harris Wofford won a Senate seat by promising to work for national health care) or the politlcal smarts to promote it to the public as Reagan promoted his bogus tax cuts. He was also afraid to buck the corporate interests, and they smelled blood.

[flaminbats]

37. Pete Stark introduced a version of Clinton's plan that did that..

basically it created a Medicare part C, for all those not currently covered by Medicare. Stark's plan required an employer mandate like Clinton's did, but it used Medicare instead of HMOs and PPO's to provide that coverage.

[SoCalDem]

9. Because the ruling elite sees money spent on stuff like that as WASTED

I mean..everyone's gonna die anyway, aren't they?

They consider it wasteful to spend all that glorious money on a bunch of poor people who won't vote for them anyway..and that money is much better spent on favors to other rich folks, so they can all set up their family dynasties well into the future..

It's the same reason that "poor folks" legislation always goes NOWHERE..

Poor folks are always seen as liabilities..not assets./

they always NEED stuff

they need health care
they need jobs
they need housing
they need food
they need ..they need..they need

Rich greedy folks don't get rich by giving stuff away

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. The Oligarchy.

Who else? :shrug:

[OzarkDem]

11. Needs to be done, absolutely

Funny thing is, most voters are in favor of it, but the elected officials are still shy.

[jeffgad]

12. Easy. Because it's Socialism, and that's the same as Communism, and

better dead than Red. It'll change when enough of those big, dumb morans that watch Fox lose their homes as a result of getting sick.

[A Simple Game]

13. Nobody can get rich from universal health care. n/t

[SharonAnn]

38. Bingo! That's the real reason. It's about getting rich, not healthcare.

[razors edge]

16. I read somewhere,

that we pay more in taxes to cover all public servants, and indigent care than most Countries pay per-capita for universal coverage. Then we pay for insurance and copay/max out on top of that.

[porphyrian]

18. It might help someone we don't like.

So, by punishing everyone, we hurt them.

Did I get it right?

[Demeter]

21. Because It Would Be Cheap, Effective, and Nobody Would Get Rich

And as stated above, illness is a punishment for sinning, and sinners don't deserve health care, so there!

[Mr_Spock]

22. I think it should and I think the Dems would bring it home for us

...given an opportunity.

I hope we can get back to doing good again. Republicans are all about taking away from people they "determine" are undeserving - usually the poor and indigent :(

[Donald Ian Rankin]

23. It's like gay marriage, and to a lesser extent gun control and the abolition of the death penalty.

It would be a very good thing indeed, it's absolutely obvious that it would be a very good thing indeed, and virtually no-one on DU would disagree that it would be a very good thing indeed, but achieving it would need votes that the Democrats don't have, and advocating it would cost a lot of votes.

Still, if I were ever declared dictator of America it would be pretty much at the top of my list, and it's probably *the* number one reason I'm glad I'm English.

[Warren Stupidity]

25. There is no evidence that UHC is unpopular.

That is a myth. The polling data in fact shows just the opposite.

[hunter]

26. Because we only pretend to be a civilized nation.

Underneath the fancy suit there are Lords and there are serfs. Most of us are serfs, and what the serfs want really doesn't matter.

It's no coincidence that the people of France, who are always quick to organize and strike, have one of the better health care systems in the world.

In the United States health care is mediocre and incredibly expensive, mediocre even for people who have "good" health plans.

[LWolf]

27. Because

the voters that put the corporatists in office are mollified by the spouting of grand rhetoric about "working to provide" (we'll talk about it all the time and stall for years until everyone gives up) "insurance" for all, instead of putting the people who actually want to enact universal, single-payer not-for-profit health care in office.

[StellaBlue]

28. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$GREED$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[JeffR]

33. Stella, I wish I'd seen this post before you edited it

Just to see what you changed!?!

[StellaBlue]

39. haha

I didn't space it. It was like four miles long, off the screen, scroll-action.

:rofl:

[JeffR]

40. OK, that clears that mystery up

:spray:

[davekriss]

43. No, stellablue, you don't quite have that right

It's better said thus:

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$GREED$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$>>>>>>>>>>>>> from the labor of the many, into the hands of the few!

[Jcrowley]

29. Polls show

again and again that Americans are for this. I guarantee that this single issue is high on the list of every American's list of priorities and it shows quite precisley who Congress serves. Capital.

K&R

[flaminbats]

30. real Republicans simply don't care..

and Republicans who do support healthcare reform are just in the wrong party!

Republicans opposed Medicare and Social Security until it passed, now they only claim they'll save it! Republicans claim that universal healthcare will result only in rationing and more bureaucracy, but they'll say they've always supported it after it passes.

I'll never forget the game they played when Clinton introduced his plan. First they claimed they support equal access to insurance and fair rates regardless of pre-existing conditions. They couldn't back Clinton's healthcare plan because of the terrible "employer mandate." It wasn't long before Republicans began attacking more conservative plans introduced by Democrats like Jim Cooper and Republicans like John Chaffee as "Clintonlight".

Clinton proposed to require employers to pay 80% of the workers premiums, and workers would pay what was left. A cigarette tax was proposed to help small businesses and workers to pay those premiums. The heart of the Clinton plan was a standard benefit package that insurance companies must not provide anything less than. But Republicans claimed that was the maximum benefits insurance companies would "be allowed to provide the workers."

Clinton was unwilling at first to abandon the employer mandate, but Mitchell proposed a plan that basically ditched the employer mandate...but it required insurance companies to provide a minimum benefits package to all workers at the same premium regardless of a pre-existing condition. But Republicans refused to even work with Mitchell, instead Richard Shelby and Phil Gramm filibustered the possibility compromise to death!

I'll never forget watching Phil Gramm proudly announcing his opposition to allowing those with healthcare problems to buy private health insurance. I felt certain that would kill the Republicans in 1994, I didn't believe they could win control of Congress for only being obstructionists! Neocons labeled Clinton's DLC-style plan as being "socialized medicine". Then they labeled even more conservative plans, embraced by Democrats like Sam Nunn and Republicans like Bill Cohen, as more unsupportable clones of Hillary's plan. :crazy:

Neocons are the lords of inconsistency, every time Democrats offered a compromise, Republicans like Dole and Newt would only respond by taking an even more radical position!

[philly_bob]

32. Here's a "reason": only free-market competition will lower healthcare costs

That's what the free-market worshippers in the government and the right-wing think tanks believe.

The more CEO's cashing fat-cat paychecks, the lower your health-care bill.

The more levels of bureaucracy, the lower your health-care bill.

Don't agree? Commie!

[niallmac]

36. CONTROL!!

If the thought of leaving my suck ass corporation to find a new job
crosses your mind well go ahead asshole.
YOU won't have any health insurance.
YOU can be responsible for the illness and injury that may fall upon the heads of your loved ones.
Go ahead and leave Mr. Individual.
No?
Good.
Now get back to your god damned cubicle and STFU!

[The Anti-Neo Con]

41. Universal healthcare would also help small business.

Like you were saying, I know two people who wanted to leave corporate America and start businesses of their own, but they had pre-existing heath problems and could not go uninsured. They also couldn't afford private health insurance because companies charge outrageous premiums if you have ANY type of pre-existing health problem. With universal govt. funded healthcare in place, that would also take the burden off small-business owners (who often can't afford providing health care plans) of providing health care.

[upi402]

42. I got to add that as a plank on our platform

and take it to the county convention. All I did was pipe up while the Democratic precinct meeting was talking about it, and so it goes!
But I was for Brown, not Clinton too. So I learned a bit about shenanigans, intra party.

[Vidar]

45. Because Government by the rich, for the rich and of the rich

flourishes in both parties.

[Hippo_Tron]

47. IMO, universal coverage isn't perfect but it's probably a good idea

The fact is that the richest country in the world can afford healthcae for all of its people. The problem is that people who can afford healthcare don't like rationing at all. Sure, stories of waiting lists are highly exaggerated by opponents of universal healthcare but the fact is that many people (mostly the ones who can afford it) have qualms about waiting in line at all.

Also, while I don't like the idea of huge insurance company profits, I do think that paying doctors 6 figure salaries is a good idea and the United States is really the only place that happens. The process of becoming a doctor sucks and there has to be something to attract the most talented people into the field. That said, we also need to increase salaries for nurses.

The United States is certainly in a healthcare crisis and something needs to be done and I think that something along the lines of single payer or universal coverage is probably a good idea with some differences from other systems.

It would certainly help if the richest country in the world wouldn't spend all of its money blowing up other countries.

[Warren Stupidity]

48. The rich can always pay for special care.

There is rationing in any system. The rationing we perform here in this country with our system is based on the balance sheet of HealthCo. The rationing performed in countries with UHC is based on utilitarian rationalism.