USA Today LTTE: "Brokeback Mountain success likely to FIZZLE!"

[Bluebear]

The recent cover story " 'Brokeback' rides into the mainstream" begs the question: Who's defining "mainstream" (Life, Dec. 14)?

Sure, the movie about homosexual cowboys goes over well in a city such as San Francisco, one of the cities where the film is playing, but San Francisco shouldn't be considered mainstream by American cultural standards.

Most moviegoers do not want to see two cowboys kissing — or having sex with each other.

With the majority of Americans claiming to be heterosexual, I think the film no doubt will fizzle out in other cities across the country. John Wayne will never be replaced by two gay lovers in this country.

John Athon
Overland Park, Kan.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-12-26-letters-other_x.htm
===

I don't know whether to :rofl: or :eyes:.

[jonnyblitz]

1. only gay people go to see movies with gay characters.

didn't you know this? :crazy:

[Bluebear]

4. And only if they live in San Francisco

which obviously has no mainstream citizenry and therefore isn't really American. Or something like that.

[REP]

5. He's Forgetting About Evil KC MO

KC MO has the #2 largest GLBT population outside SF. Obviously, Midwestern KC is not mainstream and not American!

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

18. KCMO has more GLBT than NYC?

I find that hard to believe. In point of fact, I sort of find it hard to believe there are more in SF than NYC.

[REP]

20. Yup.

KC is a lot like SF, but with shitty weather (and a rational street system). NYC is third.

[Touchdown]

50. I used to live in KCMO. That's not true.

If you have proof, I would like to see it. I have heard KC has the highest GLBT population in the center farm belt of the country, but it's also the biggest city in the center farm belt of the country. Who would compete with it? Wichita, Des Moines, Lincoln?

Denver has 3 times the GLBT pop that KCMO had. 70-120 thousand in attendance at the gay pride event here, compared to the MAYBE 1000 I saw in KC when I lived there...including the Phelps Clan.

[proud2BlibKansan]

160. There are a LOT of gay people here in KC

But I don't know about it being the largest community outside SF.

[tenshi816]

36. Not according to

http://www.urban.org/publications/900695.html.

Here's the nationwide breakdown:

States with the most same-sex couple households:

1. California
2. New York
3. Texas
4. Florida
5. Illinois
6. Pennsylvania
7. Georgia
8. Ohio
9. Massachusetts
10. New Jersey

Highest concentrations of same-sex couple households...

by state:

1. Vermont
2. California
3. Washington
4. Massachusetts
5. Oregon
6. New Mexico
7. Nevada
8. New York
9. Maine
10. Arizona

by large metro area:

1. San Francisco, CA
2. Oakland, CA
3. Seattle-Bellevue-Everett, WA
4. Fort Lauderdale, FL
5. Austin-San Marcos, TX
6. New York, NY
7. Los Angeles-Long Beach, CA
8. Albuquerque, NM
9. Atlanta, GA
10. Jersey City, NJ

by city/town:

1. Provincetown, MA
2. Guerneville, CA
3. Wilton Manors, FL
4. West Hollywood, CA
5. Palm Springs, CA
6. Miami Shores, FL
7. Decatur, GA
8. Key West, FL
9. Northampton, MA
10. North Druid Hills, GA

[NuttyFluffers]

73. nyah nyah, where i live is the "queerest of the queer" (sing to Garbage)

mirror, mirror, on the wall, *we* are the most fabulous ones of all. :P
play around in 'the city,' then hop across the bridge and tunnel, and play around in 'the town'!
off to do the happy dance... with rhythmic gymnastics ribbon and glitter!
:party:

[proud2BlibKansan]

162. Well maybe gay people don't live together here in KC

Did you think of that?

[mtnester]

72. Har har, the theaters here are PACKED to see this movie.

People who do not live in reality normally are killed by the pack in order to save the gene pool.

:sarcasm:

[northzax]

2. amazing how scary these gays are, ain't it?

now I don't really want to see this movie, I'll catch it on DVD, but I'm certainly not going to write a letter to the editor about why I'm not going to see it, or claim it's for some political reason, I just don't think it's worth my 10 bucks.

[FreedomAngel82]

8. Oh yeah

They're so scary they make me wanna go out and just be gay. :sarcasm: Ugh. Give me a break. These people are so pathetic and it gets on my nerves so bad. Oh and an old movie but a goodie that you all might like is one I saw on the Sundance Channel called "Making Love." It's about a guy who is a doctor who is married and he just finds out he's gay and has an affair with another guy and he tries to figure out who he is. I won't spoil the rest of it for you. :) I enjoyed the movie because it shows you another side of the story of someone who is gay who figures it out and they've been straight for so long and what they go through and all members involved. Try to find it if you can.

[northzax]

16. I confess, I don't like movies with interpersonal stories

I'm not cultured like that, I guess. I like movies where stuff blows up. I don't go to the theater to be depressed by a story (and I've read the novella BBM is based on, so it's not the subject matter that's the problem here) I go to theaters to see stuff I can't watch at home on my smaller TV. I like loud, highly entertaining movies that help me forget about the crap going on in the outside world anything else I can watch on my TV, on DVD, without spending 10 bucks on the ticket, and ten more on popcorn and soda. I just don't enjoy them enough to spend the money, you know?

maybe it's because I'm feeling poor since I just dropped a grand on a ticket to London for my sister's civil union ceremony next month. what kind of world do we live in that I need a fucking passport to go see my sister get married to the person she's been in love with for a decade? For that, I forgive Tony Blair's sins.

a comparison: her fiancee, a British citizen, applied for a green card in 1996. Her application was approved, and her card will be issued in december of 2008. 12 fucking years for a guaranteed application (her brother is a natural born US citizen, so she's one of the immigrants the wingnuts are bitching about, in more ways than one) my sister, a US citizen, applies for a visa to move to the UK and do the civil union thing on December 1, when the law went into effect. She had her visa, in her passport, 6 days later. and it was over a weekend.

4380 days (estimated) versus 6 days. sometimes I despair for this country.

thanks for the suggestion on the movie, I'll see if netflix has it.

[madeline_con]

22. "I like movies where stuff blows up"

Have you seen "Syriana"?

[northzax]

26. not yet, but I plan to

haven't gotten around to it yet.

[Mutley]

38. I saw it yesterday.

Excellent. But two people walked out in the middle of it. :shrug:

[madeline_con]

43. My brother and I went together while he was here for X-mas.

We got all nostalgic for the good old days. Our parents worked in Saudi Arabia, so we'd both spent lots of time there. Hearing the Arabic, and just seeing the M.E. was way cool.

Geez, was the Kinfg of the "fictitious Middle Eastern country" a dead ringer for Faisal bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud or what?!

The story was also thouroughly enjoyable.

[Mutley]

70. My Dad said the same thing.

;)

[NuttyFluffers]

74. ooh, i'm not the only one!

yup, nostalgia came back en force. it also reminded me how so much was communicated with silence back there, particularly in elite circles, especially hearing some of the adults talk. kinda makes me miss it. an everyday life in america is quite noisy in comparison. i'm curious how many viewers got confused watching it. a very different style of conversation than they're used to, i think.

[walldude]

49. I'm like you.. give me action/adventure/sci-fi any day

I saw Brokeback, I was a projectionist at the Denver Film Festival and saw the premier. Ang Lee was there. I found the movie long, slow and depressing, there were things to like about it however. The performances were incredible, the cinematography was beautiful, and the direction and editing were up to Ang Lee's usual standards, but man, the world is depressing enough without me being depressed over a movie. We were all on an intercom system at the festival, and the woman who was in charge was crying so bad at the end of the movie she couldn't call people's cue's anymore. Effective film, just not my style.

[Susang]

159. This may help you understand

Catharsis is a form of emotional cleansing first defined by the Greek philosopher Aristotle. It originally referred to the sensation that would ideally overcome an audience upon finishing a tragedy. The fact that there existed those who could suffer a worse fate than them was to them a relief, and at the end of the play, they felt ekstasis (literally, astonishment), from which the modern word ecstasy is derived. While seemingly related to schadenfreude, it is not, however, in the sense that the audience is not intentionally led to feel happy in light of others' misfortunes; in an invariant sense, their spirits are refreshed through having greater appreciation for life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharsis

This is why so many of us enjoy this style of film. Even though it may not seem like it to you, there is an emotional payout, for me, usually quite a big one. I'm guessing the sobbing woman who was crying so hard she couldn't call her cues would concur.

[FreedomAngel82]

132. Sorry for all the troubles

:( :hug: It's a good romantice movie that ends with a happy ending just to let you know it's not totally depressing. It's a good love story that gets you into that side of "the story."

[REP]

3. He's Proabably From Merriam, KS

A pretty run-down, low-class suburb that wishes it were Overland Park (which isn't all that great, either).

[Scout1071]

83. I live in Merriam and I take offense to your characterization.

Just sayin'.

[proud2BlibKansan]

164. Hey Scout, PM next time anyone tries to bash our turf

I am here for ya, Girl!

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

163. Hey Merriam ain't all that bad

and OP is wonderful.

What you talkin bout, dissin my home turf?

[kevinbgoode]

6. They really are overly concerned about a movie

which has gay characters meeting success. Strangely, they don't seem to remember the Robin Williams remake of La Cage Aux Folles, which garnered a huge audience.

Me thinks the wingnuts are scared that this movie comes to close to their own private little closet of secrets.

[FreedomAngel82]

10. Yep

There's this Japanese animation film that I really like and my brother does too called "Sailor Moon." There are two characters in the cartoon who are lesbian lovers and fight with Sailor Moon and her group and in the American version they change it to them being "close cousin's" and cut out scenes of where it looks like they're having a romantic moment. :eyes: Oh brother. There are so many Americans who need to just get over it. Gay people have been around for centuries and aren't going anywhere. And even in the Bible in Genesis in the beginning how else do you think they populated? Incest. Is that any better? (And no this isn't anti-Christian bashing since I am a Christian, just pointing out this fact)

[yorkiemommie1]

85. birdcage?

BRAVO channel plays it a lot, just yesterday again. I love the swipes it takes at religious rw'ers! and that last line in the movie cracks me up every time!

[SillyGoose]

7. Oh, bullshit. They knocked 'Syriana', too.

They will knock any movie that has a liberal bent.

Screw them...I hope Brokeback gets an Oscar just to piss them off.

[FreedomAngel82]

133. Don't you know

that hollywood is sending out the liberal message? :sarcasm:

[Hello_Kitty]

9. Okay John

What was the point of your LTTE, anyway? To prove that you're not...you know...GAY, or anything. Not that there's anything wrong with that! :rofl:

[Bluebear]

11. He's remembering John Wayne fondly, isn't he?

The letter would continue: "So tall. So rugged. Such a man's man. Those sinewy muscles bulging under his . . . but never mind all that, this movie will FIZZLE I say!"

[lakemonster11]

24. It makes me think about the movie The Birdcage.

When Robin Williams' character is trying to teach Nathan Lane's character to be "more manly," he tells him to walk like John Wayne.

After a few tries, they realize that John Wayne's walk is really gay!

[FreedomAngel82]

12. People who talk about it way too much

makes you wonder eh? Oy. I wonder if it'd be different if it was lesbians? Heh heh.

[Mutley]

39. Think of the movie "Bound".

I know several people who loved that movie, but who are pissed about Brokeback Mountian. Hypocrites the lot of them.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

82. Bound was an excellent movie

On several levels.

Fine Drama, complex characters and some very nice eye candy.

[northzax]

21. hey, just because me and the boys go camping and fishing

all the time, don't mean it's on the down low, ok? sure, sometimes we go for a dip in the old swimming hole when there ain't no women around, and sure, I prefer the company of men to my wife, that don't mean nothin...

you hear me? nothin.

[Hobarticus]

13. Hey, jayhawker, it's not intended to be a western per se...

I'm gonna have to vote for laughing my ass off on this one. What a dolt.

[EC]

14. Stupid, stupid homopobic people

This movie has more to do with love than sex.


I just saw a good one today, it's older, I haven't seen it before because I don't care much for Russell Crowe, but watched it today and it was beautiful, "The Sum of Us"

[FreedomAngel82]

134. All they care about is sex

Whether with gay people or abortion. It's all pathetic. It is about love. Sex is just an action of love. Why don't they care about something else for once? All they vote on is dealing with sex whether gay marriage or abortion. I guess not having a job to take care of your family doesn't mean anything anymore.

[beltanefauve]

15. But what about

Spongebob, Tinky-Winky, Yogi and Boo Boo, Elmo Fudd, Yosemite Sam, Donald Duck....

[FreedomAngel82]

135. Now you can add Barbie

She's bisexual now don't you know?

[rooboy]

17. If it was kd Lang and Anne Heche the ratings would be through the roof.

It's not about homosexuality, it's about voyeurism.

[Harrumph]

19. And John Wayne's real name is?

Marion Morrison. Sounds so butch doesn't it?

[txindy]

59. Lol!! You beat me to it!

Good ol' Marion. :rofl:

[Robeson]

23. I haven't seen it, but has John ever considered that....

......it may be a good movie, with a good script/story, direction, and cinematography, and there's a possibility that people appreciate those qualities in a movie?...

[autorank]

25. This is a great thread....meaingless yet fun.

Old John needs to take a trip to the Anvil, if it's still around on the West Side of NYC. He'd meet some special cowboys who wouldn't take kindly to those words. Show him a thing or too!

Great story. Original aggressive progressive Cong. Bela Abzug was campaigning in her district which included this bar. She wanted to go in on Saturday night. A bouncer, trying to keep her our said, "Lady you need some serious leather to get in here." Without missing a beat, Abzug hiked up her dress, pointed to her leather boots and said, "This will do, now get out of my way." She was admitted and went around asking for votes. She was a saint. She won the election. This story was all over NYC for years in the 70's. Great stuff.

[lakemonster11]

27. I want to see two cowboys kissing.

But then I've already seen the movie.

[sandnsea]

28. Uhm, John, you're writing an LTTE about it

I kind of think that means the movie's hit the mainstream. Dumbass.

[Organic Panic]

29. IT'S IN EVERY NEWSPAPER

The amount of free publicity and coverage this movie has gotten is why many don't care to watch it. When anyone reads GAY-COWBOY, that INSTANTLY turns away any guy from going to the movie. Come on, be honest, 'GAY COWBOY MOVIE' is not a topic many people are interested in. And to those of you who say it's homophobia keeping people away you are wrong. You'll have to apply that logic to people who don't watch Sleepless in Seattle, does that mean they are heterophobic? NO! It just means they aren't interested in that movie. By that logic, people who don't want to watch KING-KONG, hate gorillas, people who didn't go see Titanic hate boats, and those who skipped 'Shindler's List' well...you get my point.

[girl gone mad]

30. You might want to ask your girlfriend about it.

I think you may be surprised.

[BR_Parkway]

31. They're not cowboys, they're shepherds - just like Jesus. Boy would that

cause some major fundie head exploding if the MSM was actually calling them what they are instead of cowboys.

[Hobarticus]

34. Oh, SNAP! That's almost below the belt!!!

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

46. "it's homophobia keeping people away"

Thanks for stopping in. Incidentally, the movie is doing extremely well.

[FreedomAngel82]

137. I can't wait till it's on HBO

I'm not a theatre person and hopefully this will come on HBO.

[Touchdown]

52. Yes, you are right. People want to see movies about Cannibals instead.

...as in the successful Silence of the Lambs, which spawned 2 sequels to it. Quite a commentary on the sanity of the American people, isn't it?

[hiaasenrocks]

53. Well said.

I don't have any interest in this movie for several reasons. The gay aspect of it is just one. I have no interest in anything Western or cowboy or anything of the sort. And the actors aren't interesting to me. Not even close to making my list of actors I like to see perform.

I do find it humorous that some people say, "It's not a 'gay' movie - it's a movie about a relationship!" And when people like us say we don't want to see it some of those same people say we're "homophobic."

Make up your minds. :)

[Bluebear]

56. So the gay aspect bothers you....

Interesting, really it is, for most gays don't eschew mainstream heterosexual movies because of the "straight" aspect". It's not like this is an XXX rated movie.

[hiaasenrocks]

57. Bothers me?

No, I didn't say that. I said I have no interest in watching anything about it. Pretty much the same lack of interest I would have in watching a movie about 18th century China. And, hey, even if it did bother someone that would be okay, too. We all have our right to like and dislike what we choose.

That it's not "XXX rated" is irrelevant to me.

[Bluebear]

58. Well OK, but you said "well said" to the following comment

'When anyone reads GAY-COWBOY, that INSTANTLY turns away any guy from going to the movie.'

so I kind of assumed too much I guess?

[hiaasenrocks]

60. You are free to assume that.

As I've said twice now, I have no interest in seeing the movie for the reasons stated in my post and in the post with which I agreed. Having no interest in the gay lifestyle or anything related to it, such a movie would instantly turn me away.

Again, like the example of a movie about 18th century China. Or a movie about aliens coming to Earth and taking over. Not interested. Instantly.

Taste in movies (like anything else we consume) is about preference and choice, you know?

[Bluebear]

61. Maybe you wouldn't use phrases like "the gay lifestyle"...

if you broadened your horizons a bit. ;) Peace.

[hiaasenrocks]

63. I've heard that phrase used by gays before.

But that's neither here nor there.

Anyway, when one person in a discussion tells the other they need to "broaden their horizons" that's a pretty good sign that the discussion is over. After all, that's a comment that could be thrown either way in a disagreement over taste/preference/enjoyment.

Happy New Year! :)

[Bluebear]

64. Okie dokie.

Be that as it may, I wouldn't go so far as to write a LTTE about a movie about 18th century China or something by Carl Hiassen to be doomed to "fizzle" because it's not mainstream enough. The original writer has deep issues.

[hiaasenrocks]

112. I wouldn't either.

Write a LTTE about a movie or a novel, that is.

Whether the writer of that LTTE has issues, I have no idea. I wasn't responding to the LTTE.

[Puglover]

75. I dunno...I think Malvina Reynolds sums it up pretty well....

1. Little boxes on the hillside,
Little boxes made of ticky-tacky,
Little boxes, little boxes,
Little boxes, all the same.
There's a green one and a pink one
And a blue one and a yellow one
And they're all made out of ticky-tacky
And they all look just the same.


etc etc.

[proud2BlibKansan]

167. I love that show!!

When does the next season start?

[LostinVA]

93. I actually think you probably haven't

Unless it was used ironically, or by someone struggling with accepting themselves. I'm 41, gay, and have never heard that phrase used by ANY self-accepting gay man or woman.

[hiaasenrocks]

110. LOL.

Well, I have heard it used by gay men. I'll speak for what I've heard, and you can speak for what you've heard. Deal?

As for whether the people using that phrase were "self-accepting," well, who's to say?

[Bluebear]

111. Just for reference sake

From the GLAAD media guide

OFFENSIVE: "gay lifestyle" or "homosexual lifestyle"
PREFERRED: "lesbian" or "gay"
There is no single lesbian or gay lifestyle. Lesbians and gay men are diverse in the ways they lead their lives. The phrase "gay lifestyle" is used to denigrate lesbians and gay men, suggesting that their sexual orientation is a choice and therefore "curable."

http://www.glaad.org/media/guide/offensive.php

[hiaasenrocks]

113. The GLAAD media guide isn't

going to dictate how I speak or write, just as I wouldn't take instructions from any other group, regardless of their politics.

If others want to reference the GLAAD guide for speech codes, that's their choice.

EDIT: And by the way, when I used that phrase it wasn't meant to be derogatory. I am absolutely 100% indifferent on this issue. I don't vote for or against anyone based on their stance on gay issues (can I say that?). It is absolutely irrelevant to me.

[Bluebear]

115. "It is absolutely irrelevant to me."

Clearly.

[hiaasenrocks]

116. The issue is, yes. I stand by that.

[Bluebear]

117. It's a shame you aren't more progressive in your voting. nt

[hiaasenrocks]

119. Why would this issue trump my voting

record on things like voting for candidates who are: pro-environment, pro- national health care, anti-Iraq war, for repealing the Bush tax cuts for the rich and reorganizing the cut to lower and middle-class workers, for public education and against school vouchers, for science over religious doctrine, against NSA spying on citizens and for impeaching Bush on that issue.... shall I go on?

I have absolutely no worries about my voting record, thanks. :)

Question: do you consider yourself open-minded?

[Bluebear]

120. Answer: What concerns my brothers and sisters concerns me.

I have absolutely no "interest" in abortion, but am pro-life. Because.

[hiaasenrocks]

121. Do you call yourself "open-minded"? n/t

[ruggerson]

122. In your litany of things that you care about

Do you have a problem with government discriminating against certain groups of people for things like race, gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation?

Do you think it's ok for blacks to be treated differently than whites or gays to be treated differently (under the law) than straights?

In other words, how developed is your sense of justice and liberty?

[hiaasenrocks]

127. I don't equate race or gender with sexual orientation.

Actually, I think it's kind of ridiculous.

Of course, I would never attempt to silence that opinion, but I don't buy into it.

[ruggerson]

130. well you're not really answering my question

and I don't want to put words in your mouth. So, fill me in. You oppose government discriminating against people because of race or gender, but it's fine for government to discriminate in cases of sexual orientation? Is that your stance pretty much? Elucidate.

[hiaasenrocks]

136. That's pretty accurate.

Race and gender are benign chromosomal characteristics that carry no behavioral characteristics. I do not believe in discriminating based upon those things. We, as a society, do have the right to restrict or deny certain privileges and rights based upon other determinants that are behavior-related. Some of these examples would include age restrictions on various things, including marriage; physical ability as related to operating a vehicle on public roads, and others. I realize people won't agree on where to draw the line, but wherever that line is drawn it is, by definition, arbitrary and based upon one's moral code, whether that code is derived from religion or simply personal morals based on reason.

Again, as I stated earlier, I am truly not for or against any of the various "gay issues." It's just simply not a factor in my political stance.

[ruggerson]

142. Ok, but there is a lot of evidence to

point to sexuality as being a genetic occurrence as well. So, I'm not clear why you include gender, but do not include sexuality.

And sexuality is not, btw, behaviour related. I can be a gay man and utterly celibate. Whether I have sex or not has no bearing on my innate inborn hardwired orientation.

And how does one's sexuality have anything to do with personal morals? Especially those "based on reason?" Sexuality is a biological occurrence, what does that have to with morality?

[hiaasenrocks]

144. I don't think that's been determined beyond doubt yet.

Even if it's proven to be genetic/biologically driven, I doubt that will have much effect on the marriage laws, for instance. But, as I said, it doesn't matter to me.

As for sexuality being determined by morality, I guess everyone has their own boundaries.

[ruggerson]

154. But, if you care about justice in terms of

how people are treated by the government - if you oppose discrimination - then you DO care.
I'm not referring to what you think of homosexuality, I could care less about that, but what are your thoughts about what the GOVERNMENT thinks about homosexuality. Or race. Or gender. Believing in justice and equality for all citizens are basic tenets of a free society. You've stated you care about the working man and the middle class. Why reserve only to them the liberties that our country promises?

And again, morality has NOTHING to do with sexuality. Zero. Zilch. Nada. That's not an opinion, that's reality. Morality has something to do with what one DOES with one's sexuality (one's behaviour), but it does not have any bearing on the underlying fixed sexual and affectional orientation of human beings.

[hiaasenrocks]

156. I do care about the working man and the middle class.

And gays are very much a part of that. I have never stated that I'm in favor of denying jobs or equal pay to gays. In fact, as the boss of a gay employee (referenced in an earlier post in this thread) I can tell you that I have given him two hefty raises because of his outstanding work product. Is there evidence that gays make less than straights, as women make less than men for the same job?

Again, I am undecided on whether homosexuality is a choice or determined by biology because science is undecided. And even when we get that answer, if we ever do, that's not to say that some make a choice and others don't. Who really knows?

[ruggerson]

161. Ok, now we're getting somewhere

Your initial post said you "have no interest in the gay lifestyle or anything related to it"

Now, at least, you're stating that you are in favor of job equality and equal pay for gays and lesbians. So maybe your initial wording which touched off all this discussion was a little broad brushed and did not accurately reflect your POLITICAL sensibilities on this issue but just your personal ones.

You sound like an intelligent guy, and your personal view on other people's sexuality doesn't really interest me. But as an intelligent person, your POLITICAL views as to whether gays and lesbians should be protected from discrimination do interest me, as your other professed political positions would not square rationally with a stance against equal treatment of gay people.

[hiaasenrocks]

165. Well, that's pretty close.

Gays and lesbians do not suffer the same "equal pay for equal work" problem that women do. So it's not really something to be for or against, as it isn't a problem.

Other issues, however, just don't interest me. Like the marriage one. I couldn't care less either way. That's why I said such issues are never a part of determining who I'll be voting for.

In the last five minutes, I went to Google and found this: Gays have an average annual household income of $55,430, versus a general population income of $32,144. Mean income of disadvantaged African-American households is only $12,166 (Statistical Abstract of the United States, 1990).
Factoring in comparative household sizes, gays average annual individual income is reported as $36,800, compared with $12,287 for average Americans and a mere $3,041 for disadvantaged African Americans. This means gay individual income is more than 300% greater than average Americans' -- and an enormous 1,200% greater than disadvantaged African Americans' (The Marketer, op. cit.).
More than three times as many gays as average Americans are college graduates (59.6% vs. 18.0%; gays average 15.7 years' education vs. 12.7 for average Americans) -- dwarfing achievements of truly disadvantaged African-Americans and Hispanics. More than three times as many gays as average Americans hold professional or managerial positions (49.0% vs. 15.9%)
65.8% of gays are overseas travelers -- more than four times the percentage (14.0%) of average Americans -- and more than 13 times as many gays as average Americans (26.5% vs. 1.9%) are frequent flyers.

"According to Overlooked Opinions more than half of the gay men's households surveyed had income of $50,000 or more, and nearly 30 percent of the lesbian households were in the same income group" (BAR).
"The national average income of lesbian households is $45,927" (RMN).
"Companies across the country are beginning to woo the gay market in an attempt to cash in on a relatively untapped section of society that has more disposable income, has an average household income of $55,000 (which is $23,000 more than the national average) and who live on the edge of society and therefore more inclined to try new products" (Quest, gay tabloid).
"Together, gay men and lesbians earn over $514 billion annually" (Overlooked Opinions survey, op. cit.).
"Jeffrey Vitale, the president of Overlooked Opinions, described the lesbian/gay market segment as having `tremendous buying power and lots of discretionary income'... One of the firm's findings: nearly 40 percent of the lesbians and gays surveyed had traveled overseas during the past year" (BAR, emphasis added).
A cruise line executive, specializing in a boom market in all-gay luxury cruise vacations said, "Fifty-two percent of the passengers sign up for a cruise in the next year while on the cruise" (TW, emphasis added).
7% of gays live in households with annual income of over $100,000 (Overlooked Opinions survey, op. cit.).
Gays households are four times as likely as average Americans to be earning in excess of $100,000 annually (SFC).
"54.1% of gay male households have annual incomes over $50,000" (RMN).
" pointed out that 2% of the lesbians on his panel make more than $200,000 annually, which is a higher percentage than gay males surveyed" (MN).
"More than 90 percent of gay men and 82 percent of lesbians report that they read magazines as a hobby or special interest" (Overlooked Opinions survey, op. cit.).
"And a reader's poll conducted for the Advocate, a national gay magazine, last year showed that its readers (98% of whom are men) have average household incomes of $62,100" (WST).
47.7% of gay males and 43.1% of lesbians own their own homes. 31.7% of gays and 33.1% of lesbians reside in suburban areas (Overlooked Opinions survey, op. cit.).
"56.2% of cohabiting lesbian/gay couples' household incomes top $50,000 a year" (Overlooked Opinions survey, op. cit.).
"...Almost 30% of lesbian households earn over $50,000 annually" (MTW).
62% of gay males are college graduates (vs. 24% of all U.S. men). 59% of lesbians are college graduates, compared with 17% of all U.S. women. "30.1% of gays and lesbians have advanced degree(s)" (RMN).
"America's gay and lesbian community is emerging as one of the nation's most educated and affluent, and Madison Avenue is beginning to explore the potential for a market that may be worth hundreds of billions of dollars... `It's a market that screams opportunity,' said Eric Miller, editor of Research Alert, a consumer research newsletter based in New York" (SFC).
While 32.8% of African Americans live below the poverty line ($8,343 for 2-person households under age 65 ), 62% of gay households earn more than the average American household, and more than 95% of gay households live above the poverty line (Overlooked Opinions survey, op. cit.).
Only 19% of gay households earn less than $20,000 annually (Overlooked Opinions survey, op. cit.).
"`Gay greenbacks are very powerful and the gay and lesbian community is a virtual motherlode of untapped sales,' said Robert Bray, spokesman for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in Washington" (RMN).

[ruggerson]

168. I wouldn't be surprised if those statistics were pretty accurate

after all, many gay couples are two income professionals without kids to raise, so they have more disposable income.

But, none of those links addresses the discrimination issue. There is a federal statute which prohibits job discrimination based on religion, race, ethnicity, gender.... but it does not yet include sexual orientation. There are also fifty individual state laws prohibiting employment discrimination, only 14 of them (could be slightly higher now) include sexual orientation. That means in roughly TWO THIRDS of the nation, a gay person can be fired simply for being a homosexual. It's legal. You can't get fired for being a man, a woman, a Christian, a Buddhist, black, asian, latino, Wiccan.... but you CAN get fired for being gay. I'm assuming you think, as the Democratic party officially does in its platform, that that is ridiculous.

[hiaasenrocks]

171. Again, this goes back to the issue of

choice versus biology. I believe in a company's right to hire and fire people based on their behavior, because that reflects on the business's image. I would extend that belief to include all kinds of behaviors that the employer deems detrimental to the company, whether at work or not.

Just curious. What's an example of someone being fired for "being gay"? And I mean, something with the specifics of the case. The reason I am asking for specifics in a particular case is because, as a supervisor, I have had to deal with one instance in which someone was fired for specific violations of company policy and have threatened to sue because of their race. (Despite the fact that we have fired white people for the same reason, and about 40% of our employees are black and we don't fire them for "being black") So I'm a little leery of such claims. The vast majority have merit, but there are some that don't.

[hiaasenrocks]

172. Almost 1:15 and I have to get up early tomorrow.

I didn't realize the time. Thanks for the interesting discussion. Maybe we can pick it up again. See ya.

[ruggerson]

174. Ok

we'll pick it up later. Happy New year.

[wtmusic]

175. interesting discussion

hiaasenrocks, I wouldn't see Brokeback Mountain either.

I don't want to watch two men kiss. It's my hangup, I admit it. I don't have a homophobic bone in my body -- live and let live -- but it makes me uncomfortable.

On the other hand, I understand completely why some object to the "gay lifestyle" comment. No one is trying to tell you what to say, but it's a little analogous to saying "the way black people walk" or "the way Jews argue" or "the way (societal subgroup goes here) (behavior goes here). When I hear someone use that comment it sounds like either: 1) they lack familiarity with the subgroup 2) they're prone to making hasty generalizations--both of which are not particularly flattering.

My $.02.

[ruggerson]

173. Cracker Barrel restaurant chain is kind of a classic case

They wholesale fired gay employees, NOT for behaviour on the job, many of them were exemplary employees, but SOLELY because they were gay.


In 1991, in response to a customer complaint, Cracker Barrel fired several gay staffers. The Tennessee-based chain of 165 restaurants later stated that it wouldn't employ people "whose sexual preferences fail to demonstrate normal heterosexual values." (Hey, they don't call it Cracker Barrel for nothing.)



http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/1994/03/cracker.html


Ten years later, they finally had to reverse this policy:


Reversing more than a decade of opposition, Cracker Barrel's parent company bars sexual orientation discrimination in it Equal Employment Opportunity policy.

SocialFunds.com -- The infamous shareowner resolution calling on Cracker Barrel Old Country Stores' parent company CBRL Group (ticker: CBRL) to bar sexual orientation discrimination, first filed more than a decade ago, has finally achieved its objective. The resolution received 58 percent support from voting shareowners at CBRL Group's November 26 annual meeting, the highest shareowner vote ever on a social policy resolution. CBRL's board of directors voted immediately and unanimously to amend its Equal Employment Opportunity (EEO) policy to include protection against sexual orientation discrimination.



http://www.socialfunds.com/news/article.cgi/article988.html


Had there been anti discrimination laws in the states in which Cracker Barrel does business, those people would never been out of a job or would have had legal recourse if unjustly fired.

[orleans]

138. can i jump in here? why, just the other day i was talking to my

best friend, who happens to be gay, and he was telling me that him and his partner had their annual tree-trimming party because it was part of their "gay lifestyle."

no, wait. that's not right. come to think of it he didn't say "gay lifestyle." he said "family tradition."

maybe it was the ornament-making party a friend of his was having that was part of that "gay lifestyle".

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

(p.s. what the hell is that guy talking about anyway? who would talk to him about their "gay lifestyle"?)

[hiaasenrocks]

141. I'll tell you the most recent example.

A guy who works for me. He's twenty and sharp as can be when it comes to computers. Unfortunately, he likes to talk excessively about his partner, even going so far as to hint at his sexual encounters. I had to reprimand him, unofficially, and explain to him that we have a strict sexual harrassment policy at this company. We don't tolerate ANY sexual talk (straight, gay, male, female, doesn't matter) and I have had to be involved in more than on unpleasant situation over such issues. I told him that he was too valuable to lose and I gave him a warning, off the record (but should have been ON the record).

Anyway, when we had our discussion, he used that phrase twice, trying to explain to me that people should be more tolerant, etc. I explained to him that this was the first time our sexual harrassment policy was facing a gay employee, the other instances were straight, and that this has nothing to do with tolerance, etc.

So, yeah, that's the most recent time I heard it.

Other times, I've heard it on TV and radio, coming from alleged homosexuals. I say alleged because apparently, according to some here, no gay would use it. Ah, well.

[Bluebear]

145. "Unfortunately, he likes to talk excessively about his partner"

Before adding about the sexual encounters, did it upset you that he talks about his partner? Would you say "Unfortunately, he likes to talk excessively about his wife"?

Just wondering.

[hiaasenrocks]

147. Sigh.

Read my entire post, please. That will answer your question about whether this was specific to his orientation.

[Bluebear]

148. Oh I read your entire post.

You said "Unfortunately, he likes to talk excessively about his partner......EVEN going so far as to hint about sex..." etc. I'm not asking about sex talk. You tagged that on as an afterthought to talking about his partner at all. Whatever, as they say. You just come off seeming that you have a bee in your bonnet over the issue, and that it is not 'totally irrelevant' to you.

[hiaasenrocks]

149. Okay.

That was poorly worded on my part. Late night. If you want to make this about semantics, have at it. But the gist of my post was clearly about sexual talk at work.

Funny, though, how you are asking questions while you've avoided this question for almost an hour now....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2453&mesg_id=37385

EDIT: If I have a "bee in my bonnet" it's probably the same one I have some days on DU. There is a tendancy around here, on the part of some, to dictate how others think, tell them what should be acceptable, how they should speak, etc. I've seen it a few times, even when I've just been lurking, and this discussion is a good example of it. Hence, the link above.....

[Bluebear]

150. "Do you call yourself open-minded" is a poorly framed quesion.

Open-minded to me is clearly different to what it is for you. In any case, why are you debating on and on about a subject of which you have no interest?

[hiaasenrocks]

151. LOL

You won't answer the question I asked, and you're asking why I'm participating in a discussion in which you have ceased to contribute anything substantive.

Great. Thanks for the fascinating exchange.

[Bluebear]

152. Your talking points aren't scintillating either, to be honest

Ciao, be well.

[hiaasenrocks]

153. LOL. Goodnight.

[FreedomAngel82]

140. So I guess I have "the straight lifestyle" eh?

And the difference is... ?

[hiaasenrocks]

143. You don't know the difference between gay and straight?

Can't help you there.

But seriously, read the other posts around here and you'll see why I use that phrase. If this is simply about a speech code violation, this'll get boring real quick.

[ruggerson]

155. It's not about a "speech violation" it's just totally inaccurate

Tell me:

Do a lesbian Cambodian migrant farm worker in Southeast Asia and a Wall Street closeted investment banker in NYC share the same "lifestyle?"

They're both gay, after all.

Think about it.

[hiaasenrocks]

157. "Totally" inaccurate?

Maybe so. But I'll use that phrase because most people know what is meant by it. I doubt most people have to parse the words to that degree in order to figure out what is being said. Again, I'm not one to take speech instructions/demands from any group of any political stripe. As long as what I'm saying works in everyday conversation, that'll do.

[ruggerson]

166. But if it's inaccurate AND it offends people

why use it?

The gay "lifestyle" is a phrase the religious rightwing uses to reduce gay people to nothing more than a sex act.

You say that everyone understands what it means. I guarantee you that gays and lesbians have no clue what it means, as there is just as much difference and diversity amongst gays and lesbians as there is amongst heterosexuals. There are millions of different "lifestyles" amongst gays. Just as there are millions of different "lifestyles" amongst straights. IF I referenced a "straight lifestyle" would you know what I was talking about, OTHER than labelling the people as heterosexual?

[hiaasenrocks]

169. As I stated before...

I've heard it used in person and on TV and radio by gays. I just don't see it as that big of a deal.

It's really not a phrase that comes up often anyway. I've used it here in this thread more times that I did all of last year. Easily.

So it's not a major issue. And, again, speaking to the larger issue, I'll use the phrase that seems to work and I won't take speech codes from any political group. No one should.

[Bridget Burke]

98. So--you like movies about people just like you!

Strong, manly men--living in the 21st century. No fantasy. No history. No "gay lifestyle." (Isn't this one about two men who love each other but DON'T have a gay lifestyle?

I don't get out to see many movies. But I don't reject them by "category."

[hiaasenrocks]

109. If you insist upon putting words in my mouth...

at least make them interesting. :)

I never said I limit my interests to things "just like me," nor did I say I don't like history or any other genre. I said what I said. It's still there if you'd like to read it again.

As for not "rejecting movies by category" do you not have interests and disinterests? I would think that there are certain types of movies one would definitely go see, depending upon their interests, and others that they wouldn't, depending upon their disinterests. You know, the whole taste/preference thing we were talking about in another subthread. Oh well.

[Bridget Burke]

176. If you really DON'T CARE about the movie--why are you even posting here?

Ny own tastes? There are some genres I prefer to others, but I'm willing to go outside the box if a movie is especially excellent. I really don't care for modern Chick Flicks, but I'm not afraid that watching one will turn me into Meg Ryan--or the Current Chick of the Moment. (My idea of a Chick Flick is "Now Voyager" or "The Women.") I'm not fond of gory movies, but found "The Legend of Sleepy Hollow" delightful & love the extremely icky "Existenz."

You've stated that you are not sure homosexuality is purely genetic. If choice were ever involved, your morals would be offended. Some people CAN go either way. Some CAN go through the motions with the other sex, but prefer to do otherwise. Or they have relationships with people they care about--regardless of the equipment. Deal with it.

[FreedomAngel82]

139. And add this comment from the poster

"I don't have any interest in this movie for several reasons. The gay aspect of it is just one. " So if the gay part doesn't bug you why did you say it did?

[hiaasenrocks]

146. I already answered this.

Perhaps reading all the posts in this subthread would be helpful.

It doesn't "bug" me. I'm simply not interested in it. Just like I'm not interested in anything having to do with cowboys or westerns, etc. That's why I said I "don't have any interest," as you copied and pasted. What's the confusion here?

[lolly]

54. Here's the difference

If some organization organized an astroturf campaign against King Kong or Titanic or Schindler's List, I'd say something was up.

If you don't want to go see Schindler's List, well, there are lots of reasons not to. Depressing, too long, glosses over some unpleasant issues, etc. etc.

If you organize a campaign to get everybody on your e-mail list to write nearly identical LTTE telling people not to go see Schindler's List and insisting that it's going to be a flop because, well, it's just because you KNOW it is, then, yes, I would think you have some weird issues with the subject material of Schindler's list.

Why all the urgency in predicting that it will flop (after it's already broken single-screen records where it's been released?) If it's going to flop, it will, with or without your predictions. But all the astroturf letters I've seen insistently predict that "IT WILL FLOP! NOBODY WANTS TO SEE GAY COWBOYS!!! IT WILL! REALLY!!! IT WILL!!! TRUST ME!!!!.

Seems a bit desperate and overdone, no?

[ISUGRADIA]

65. Geez, maybe it's getting a lot of free publicity because it's on

many top 10 lists of critics.

"Come on, be honest, 'GAY COWBOY MOVIE' is not a topic many people are interested in." What the fuck? Maybe not on the right, but there are a lot of open minded people out there who go to movies that are oh, not just lame blow 'em up shit.

Morons like the letter to the editor writer are the same types who won't go to movies like "The Color Purple" because it's a "black" movie and by gum, most Americans are white! *rolls eyes*

[Bluebear]

66. A bigoted coworker thought the movie was called "The Colored People"

And wasn't interested because of the title. :eyes:

[ISUGRADIA]

68. That is too much! But maybe a freudian kind of slip

a la Dick Armey in Congress calling Barney Frank Barney Fag.

[ruggerson]

128. When Dick Armey called him that

he later apologized and said it was an accident, he mispronounced the last name.

Barney, on hearing this, said "in 89 years on this earth, no one has ever mispronounced my mother's name as 'Sylvia Fag.'"

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

108. "that INSTANTLY turns away any guy" - you really think so, eh?

How very small of you.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Oh lordie

This guy lives in my city.

[Warren DeMontague]

33. "He was too, yous boys..."

"I installed two way mirrors at his pad in Brentwood..





An' he come to the door in a dress."

[FatDave]

41. "Just because he wears a dress...

...doesn't mean he was a homo! A lot of striaght guys like to watch their buddies f*ck. I know I do."

[NMMNG]

35. "Most moviegoers do not want to see two cowboys kissing"

But they sure want to go see a sado-masochistic frenzy where their "savior" gets brutalized for several hours, then slowly killed. How effed up is that?

[XemaSab]

86. Well said....

I've heard it said before that you KNOW the values of the American people are f***ed up when the sight of a boob on TV is a national outrage but the sight of someone being REALLY killed is OK.

As a total aside, I went to go see The Matrix with my Bosnian roommate, and she coundn't stand it. It was too disturbing for her, as someone who has seen REAL violence. It made me think, is there something wrong with her for being that sensitive to violence, or is there something wrong with me for not being sensitive enough?

I'm probably not going to see Brokeback Mountain. I read the short story, and it was a total downer. It's cool if people don't want to go see it because they aren't interested, but the sheer vitriol in the protest of this film is telling.

[Mutley]

37. So, what? This guy assumes that only homosexuals will want to

see the movie? He should think again. I seem to remember similar statements about Philadelphia which was a wonderful movie and did very well.

[Skittles]

40. I saw the movie in North Texas and the audience was very diverse

Mr. Athon is clearly wrong

[WernhamHogg]

42. My favorite

My favorite part of that article is where the guy tries to define "mainstream":

"San Francisco shouldn't be considered mainstream by American cultural standards".

I would be very interested in hearing which city this man considers to be "mainstream by American cultural standards". Kansas City? Topeka? Overland Park, Kansas?

[Kingshakabobo]

44. More chicken-shit republicans.

The scary gay man is going to take away my....
marriage
heroes
children
t.v. shows


The scary black man is going to take away my....
tax dollars
education
heritage
women

The scary Arab is going to take away my....
freedoms
life
oil

[Blue_In_AK]

45. I'm not gay

(I don't think), and I plan to go see it when it opens here January 6.

[Quixote1818]

48. I thought you were making fun of the author of the article

as though he was trying to say "I AM NOT GAY!!! I AM A MACHO JOHN WAYNE FAN!!!"

It seems clear that this guy writes reviews for a living and didn't know how to approach this Movie for fear of sounding gay if he gave it positive marks. Man, I can't wait until the kids of today who grew up with Norma and Greg are the world leaders who could care less if two guys deeply love on another.

[Blue_In_AK]

55. I agree ... I love that about my kids...

who are young adults now. They could give a care if somebody's black or white, gay or straight. They like people (or don't like them) on their merits, which is definitely how it should be.

[Touchdown]

47. I used to work in Overland Park.

I seem to remember that name, John Athon. I think I turned him down at the Best Buy on Metcalf Ave. I seem to remember that he had real bad breath.:D

[Touchdown]

51. Silence of the Lambs was a huge hit.

I guess there's a lot of cannibals and FBI agents out there. Nobody, except for those that live in Quantico would go and see a movie about cannibals.:eyes:

[txindy]

62. Um,....

[Raydawg1234]

67. Maybe he'll come out of the closet in his next LTE.

[LibDemAlways]

69. According to Athon's logic

only members of the mafia would be interested in seeing The Godfather, only boxers would have shown up at the box office for Million Dollar Baby, only holocaust survivors would be interested in Schindler's List, only wine drinkers in Sideways, etc. Thinking that a film's box office appeal is going to be restricted to a narrow demographic is stupid. The film industry would collapse if filmmakers thought that way. A well-written and acted story with interesting, complex characters will find a diverse audience of fans of good movies.

[Bridget Burke]

99. And NOBODY went to LOTR....

The movie-going public includes damn few wizards, elves, dwarves & mythic heroes. That's why the movies were such flops!

[Deja Q]

71. ALL movies fizzle out at some point.

But I'm sure he realizes that too. O8)

[LWolf]

76. Brings up an interesting point.

Will there come a time when we can leave "mainstream" as a concept behind, and accept that there really is no "mainstream" of thoughts, ideas, perspectives amongst humanity, but a myriad of small streams from different sources that make us a "whole?" That all of those different sources are part of the whole?

I think I'll go out on a limb here; catch me if I fall!

I believe that there just might be some gay people in every city in America, and in rural areas, too. And I believe that the American public knows this, and can handle that knowledge, in real life and on the big screen.

[Beausoir]

77. THIS straight, middle-aged, middle-class American mom

is VERY interested in seeing this movie. I've heard wonderful things about it. I have the soundtrack and it's hauntingly beautiful.

What is this guy so afraid of??

[dilligas]

78. Who cares...?

:boring:

[Bluebear]

79. Oh, 78 people so far on this thread?

[ruggerson]

80. Well obviously you do

as you've posted to two gay threads in your first day.

Both with snide, freeperish comments.

[LostinVA]

94. Yup, transparent as glass

[Bridget Burke]

102. Most of his other posts have been snarky one-liners....

The more verbose ones indicate a distrust of the "far left."

I'm sure we'll be treated to an especially fine First Thread....

[ruggerson]

118. You get the tombstone polished up

I'll get the shovel. It's just a matter of time, after all.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

81. Basic Instinct did pretty damn well with mainstream audiences

And wasnt that about 2 gay characters?

[XemaSab]

87. Oh, but those were LESBIANS.

Two men having sex is unnatural and disgusting and real Americans and real Christians HATE HATE HATE that kind of stuff, but two women having sex is HOT so it's okay.

:sarcasm:

[NewJeffCT]

89. don't forget Sharon Stone's infamous interrogation scene

I'm sure that got a few fannies in the seats.

[XemaSab]

91. oh, I didn't forget

;)

[ruggerson]

84. A generation ago, "Most Americans"

didn't want to see an interracial couple kissing either, John Athon. Were you one of those?

Oh, and that didn't stop a little movie called "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner" from being a huge financial success and winning lots of awards.

Most American's aren't Jewish and weren't in concentration camps and that didn't stop Schindler's List from being a blockbuster and winning lots of awards.

Healthy people, John Athon, enjoy going to movies and reading books about other people, other cultures and the broad, diverse swath that is humanity.

Bigoted fucks like yourself apparently only enjoy watching films about Kansans without brainstems, which kind of limits your cinematic menu.

[Paladin]

88. I Saw It Last Night (1/1/2006)......

.....in my hyper-conservative community north of Houston, where the vote generally goes 80% Republican, or more. There was a packed house, and the after-show comments I heard were uniformly positive---as they should have been, because it's a terrific movie. Not much evidence of a "fizzle"......

[NewJeffCT]

90. OK, that's it, I'm going to see this movie

Nothing like controversy to bring me into the theater. I normally don't like cowboy movies, be they gay, straight, bi or in between, but if the Christian Right is so against it, it must be good.

[mwb970]

92. It's breaking records in Columbus, Ohio.

The manager of one of our theater chains said it's likely to be his biggest movie so far.

At this rate, I may have to go see it, and I never go to movies - the last one I saw was F911 in 2004.

[Paladin]

95. Note To Mr. Athon And Any Lurking Freepers Out There

I've seen both "Capote" and "Broke Back Mountain" now, and believe it or not, I'm still straight.

By the way, I didn't think anything would change my opinion that Phillip Seymour Hoffman should get the Best Actor Oscar for his portrayal of Truman Capote, but Heath Leger's performance in "Broke Back Mountain" did exactly that.....

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

96. Rent "Mysterious Skin"

Joseph Gordon-Levitt's performance will blow you away.

[Susang]

170. Wasn't "Mysterious Skin" amazing

I've been trying to get everyone I know to view the film after I saw it about a month ago. I know it will never happen, but by all rights, Araki should be up for all the major awards for his work this year.

[riderinthestorm]

97. Sold out yesterday in Naperville IL, all shows from noon to midnight

One of the reddest of the red areas in Dupage County.

So I was shut out! (and majorly fizzled, let me tell ya!)

I asked the ticket seller if this was unusual (that the show was sold out, all shows), and she said nope, it's one of their big box office hits, right up there with King Kong at this 30 screen cinemaplex.

I just ordered my tickets online for tonight's show. No fizzling for me and my husband.

[SomewhereOutThere424]

100. ...John Wayne WAS gay O.o

[Clark2008]

101. John Athon is blowing smoke.

Personally, even if I didn't really care about the plot, I - and a lot of other sexually voyeuristic Americans - would go to see two hot hunks in the sack.

I'm a straight female who will be married in five days to the love of my life, btw. But, as my fiance knows, I'll happily admit that I find sex, in all its forms, interesting, even if I wouldn't want to share my bed with a same-sex partner.

I'm just healthy that way. :7

Edited to clarify: I'm healthy because I admit I'm interested in sex in all its forms - NOT because I don't want to share my bed with a same-sex partner. I'm just not interested, but don't care if someone else is. Love and sex should be touted MUCH more than hate and war. ;)

[im10ashus]

103. Oh brother!

"John Wayne will never be replaced by two gay lovers in this country."

Because that's our agenda? To replace John Wayne with two gay lovers? Didn't Montgomery Clift and James Dean already do that in the 50s and 60s?

[Warren DeMontague]

104. You're right, John: San Francisco ISNT mainstream by American standards..

It's way nicer-- and you probably couldn't afford to live there, you stupid homophobic hick.

[noamnety]

105. John Wayne - the standard of morality among cowboys

Cowboys are depicted in movies as womanizers, murderers, adulterers, robbers. Where is the outrage by the cowboy community? North to Alaska - John Wayne plays Sam McCord, a womaniser who meets the gal he falls in love with while getting drunk in a brothel. Where is the outrage?

John Wayne on civil rights: "I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to the point of responsibility. I don't believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people."

John Wayne, married three times, is hardly a role model for the sanctity of marriage.

This is the same John Wayne that was a two term president of the Motion Picture Alliance for the Preservation of American Ideals, which gave the names of suspected Communists in the film industry to the House Committee on Un-American Activities.


Maybe it's time John Wayne is replaced by a gay cowboy or two.

[SkipNewarkDE]

106. THis idiot listens to Fox

...obviously. These are essentially a reiteration of one of the Fox "box office analysts."

I live in Delaware. I have seen the film twice. Both times, the theater was sold out, AND it wasn't all homosexual couples filling those seats.

[rinsd]

107. Here are the box office mojo figures for Brokeback Mountain...

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=daily&id=brokebackmountain.htm

The above is a daily breakdown where you can see that changes in dollars and theaters.

[Cocoa]

114. next they'll make a movie about box turtles

[MrSlayer]

123. All successful movies eventually "fizzle".

No movie goes on playing in the theaters making money indefinitely. I fail to see why they are so up in arms about it, no one is being forced to go see it. It hasn't become part of the curriculum in the public schools. It's just a movie.

[Left Is Write]

124. What the hell does John Wayne have to do with it?

Good grief.

And of course, everyone knows, no STRAIGHT person would ever see the movie. :eyes:

[jmm]

125. When did San Fransisco succeed from the union?

I just "love" how any town with a half way decent public transportation system is too big to have mainstream American cultural standards despite the fact that these area are where most Americans live.

[ComerPerro]

126. If it fizzles, it will be because its not playing anywhere

[StellaBlue]

129. I saw this film TODAY

I am a heterosexual female, and I drove 100 miles specifically to see it.

And it was excellent. Especially the acting. I would not at all be upset if Ledger or Gyllenhall won an Oscar (not that I think that will happen). Great, great, moving film.

I was also thinking, watching it, that, if I was an actor, I don't think it would be any 'worse' or 'harder' or 'weirder' to make out with another actor of the same sex than it would be anyone else that you're not attracted to. Like, I would rather make out with Salma Hayek than Jack Nicholson. get it? The guys in tehe movie are ACTORS.

Also,

Americans never cease to amaze me.

[FreedomAngel82]

131. Not if they keep talking about it

Don't they know that will only make more people more curious?

[proud2BlibKansan]

158. Oh god he is from my home town!

Shut up, John, they think we're all dumb here as it is. You aren't helping!!