Question on torture law: does it apply to US Citizens?

[n2doc]

Watching Olbermann, it appears it does. So is the NYT editorial page flat out lying to us? Who is right?

from today's editorial:
"The law does not apply to American citizens, but it does apply to other legal United States residents. And it chips away at the foundations of the judicial system in ways that all Americans should find threatening. It further damages the nation’s reputation and, by repudiating key protections of the Geneva Conventions, it needlessly increases the danger to any American soldier captured in battle."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/19/opinion/19thu1.html

Any links would be appreciated...

[derby378]

1. The law is vaguely worded...

It could, last I heard.

[indepat]

2. The vaguely worded law is designed to let the decider decide all

[Ravy]

3. To my limited understanding....

The question is, if the administration says you are a non-citizen, then you have no right to a court hearing or legal help to prove that you are... so in effect, you can be held indefinitely as a non-citizen (even though you are a citizen).

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

4. The way I understand it,

all that is required is for anyone (citizen or not) to be declared an "unlawful enemy combatant"

[in_cog_ni_to]

5. YES IT DOES. If they think you're "an enemy combantant" your ass

can be locked up, with no attorney, no reason given for why you were arrested, your family will not be told where you are and they can hold you for as long as they see fit. Hell, that neighbor who has always hated your guts? can call you in as an enemy combatant, make up a story about you and they will just haul you away...especially if you're a DEMOCRAT....that's where this is headed. :grr:

How's that for a DEMOCRACY?

[Nite Owl]

10. That's the way I understand

it too. They can label you so being an American citizen means nothing. It won't make you safe from this law. You can be just disappeared and no one has to know where you are or if you are even still alive.

[kansasblue]

6. KO's point was...

That let's say you are an American citizen, arrested and held as an enemy combatant. How do you prove the new law doesn't apply to you? Tell a judge? You can't go to a judge and prove that the law doesn't apply to you.

[MUAD_DIB]

9. And that is strait out of some Kafkaesque hell.

[TahitiNut]

11. Yep. It's an autocratic Catch-22.

The allegation itself deprives the detainee of due process. Forget Miranda ... left dead on the road miles behind.

[City Lights]

7. I'll take Jonathan Turley's word over the NYTimes.

He's a Constitutional Law Professor. How credentialed in Constitutional law are the NYTimes editors?

[MUAD_DIB]

8. Sure it does. It applies to us every time sombody is tortured

supposedly for our protection.

[AllegroRondo]

12. Try proving that you are a US Citizen

when you are not allowed to see a judge or attorney.

[jdlh8894]

13. Try being a Japanese-American in 1941!

[Klimmer]

14. So you are a US citizen . . .

So you are a US citizen.

You are outspoken. You vocally and in writing disagree with the current BCF and Rethug Neo-con administration.

You are now in their eyes, and according to their interpretation of their unconstitutional law, considered to be an "unlawful enemy combatant."

You now have no rights under Habeas Corpus. They "disappear" you.

They now torture and beat the hell out of you within an inch of your life, or perhaps they accidently achieve organ failure and death. Oops.

What recourse do you have? What rights do you have? Who you gonna call? Who even knows where you are or whether you are still living?

[havocmom]

16. Then, there is the matter of years of police videos of protesters

Focusing on faces, clothing, anything by which lawful protesters can be identified.

Check out link on this thread and consider that the video was taken in 2002, BEFORE the Congress decided bush was Cesar!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2431839

[mmonk]

15. The executive branch can declare anyone

an enemy combatant and thus, a citizen can have due process taken away and tortured.