RE: Outing.Exposing Hypocrisy, is Exposing Hypocrisy, No Matter the Topic.

[Kurovski]

Speaking as a homosexual, the hypocrisy of another gay individual BENEFITING from the oppression they strive to maintain over me has me blowing a gasket.

I actually see outing such people in the party as a way to diffuse the particular and considerable power the Republicans have disingenuously created for themselves around the issue of gay marriage, etc. Homophobics are in a very real way a Republican voting block.

The press and Republican talking heads even tried to convince us in '04 that despite the pre-election polls, people decided at the last minute to vote Republican out of their fear of gay marriage, or "values".

Geez, let's at least take away that weak excuse from the party's talking points.

Some individuals will see homosexuality as wrong no matter what.

Purging this topic from the Republican Party once and for all will serve the community far better than remaining silent out of fear that doing so promotes homophobia.

NOT outing Republican folks will not serve any other purpose than to keep homophobics with a false impression of the Republican Party. They will vote for Republicans, and under false pretenses. Let those people remain home on election day stewing, fretting and fuming about the "terrible" gay world we live in.

The only thing that will dissolve their homophobia is if someone they love and is close to them comes out, and patiently spends time with them, working through their fears, concerns, and answering questions. And sometimes even that doesn't matter. They take their fears and bigotry with them to their last breathing moment.

But please, let us shatter the myth that the Republican party worries about the "homosexual threat." The Republican elite are replete with homosexuality. It is no less than in any other walk of life or segment of society.

Just my opinion.

[Rockholm]

1. That's so hypocritical.

Only kidding. OUT the bastards. If they are voting against me and using their influence against me, the F-them.

[Kurovski]

4. Lol.

And the pony they humped in on...

[carolinayellowdog]

2. Here are survey results relevant to the topic

http://dc.gaymonkey.com/article.cfm?section=9&id=11065

quote:
Gay advocacy organization, the Human Rights Campaign, says it’s been monitoring what it calls a coordinated effort to place blame on the gay community and equate Mark Foley’s behavior to the fact that he is gay.

The poll shows that, by a 2-to-1 margin, voters believe that “this type of behavior is typical of politicians” over “this type of behavior is typical of gay men.” The poll also showed support for either civil unions or marriage for same-sex couples at 66 percent, which is consistent with other polls on the same question.

comment: in another thread Will Pitt has confidently stated his opinion that outing "absolutely" promotes homophobia. It might lead those already homophobic to express it, but they are not convincing anyone not already convinced, according to this survey. And I can't think of anyone who could be outed who would do more damage to LBGT people than Foley-- IF outing promoted homophobia.

[Kurovski]

3. Thanks for all that info.

I was maintaining the view that people will remain in their own world on this topic, no matter who may be outed.

For people who have loved ones who are gay and close, for folks who are well into this century, for folks who do not have self doubt or fear regarding their sexuality, outing Republicans will mean squat toward their views. However, those who are manipulated by their fears may well turn their backs on the Republican Party. As a gay man, nothing could be more important (or sweeter) at this very moment in time.

It kind of backs up my view, so of course I welcome your post with open arms. :-)

[roguevalley]

23. putting this on the gay community, the foley business, is how they

KILL people. out them. all of them. what they do is immoral, being the thing they are helping people to criminalize. they want it all ways: cozy with their hetero bosses and in the closet only when they aren't working. freaks. they don't deserve privacy when they want to take others away. this could actually promote real dialog about this issue.

[Time for change]

5. I'm so glad to hear a gay person say this

I've read stuff on DU lately talking about why it is wrong to out a homosexual under any conditions, and I argued precisely the points that you are making here. But at the same time I was wondering how homosexuals would feel about it, believing that they would agree with me but still having some doubts about it.

When we out gay members of the homophobic and anti-civil rights Republican Party establishment who are forceful voices in an anti-gay agenda, we are not outing them for being gay, we are outing them for being hypocrites, and by doing so we help to discredit their anti-gay agenda. At least that's the way I see it.

Thanks for expressing your opinions on this.

[Kurovski]

8. If the Republicans didn't use this issue to gain votes,

I wouldn't care if someone wanted to keep their cover. It promotes homophobia to remain closeted, but I could deal with that level of cowardice.

It's the fact that it is such a powerful tool to manipulate the Republican voting base that makes it an imperative to let those voters know that they're being played. Outing every single member of the RW political class, from pundits to pols can do much to reveal the reality to RW voters.

Great damage has been done to the world by the folks who came to power in part through their anti-gay rhetoric, dishonest as it is. Fer cry-eye, Cheney's daughter is gay. He loves her, and she, him. He doesn't believe in the malarky the folks who vote for him do. But he never says a word when the party makes all kinds of assumptions about his own gay daughter.

Even if outing gaypubbies DID promote homophobia (and I do not see that it does) I would be more than happy to trade a little more homophobia to weaken the party That damaged the world, that created so much misery, that killed so many, that so damaged our Constitution.

It makes the loss of a little social advancement pale by comparison.

[carolinayellowdog]

9. My sense is that most gay DUers share this view

and the well-meaning straights who rant against outing are expressing an implicit homophobia (it's so horrible to reveal that someone is, well, you know, "that way")

[blossomstar]

18. Well said! Hypocrites they surely are...

how can a gay person be a republican, but then how can a poor person?

[Time for change]

21. Or a Christian?

Who supposedly looks up to Jesus as an exmple.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. Agree completely...

This can apply to any major issue today. If a woman screams about "baby killers" in front of an abortion provider but slips in through the backdoor to have one, she is a fucking hypocrite and I would have no problems calling her on that. If a someone presented themselves as an environmentalist but had secret $$$ deals with the country's most polluting companies, I would want everyone to know that. If a Green is running in a tight race and it being funded by the GOP to pull voters from the Dem, I think voters have the right to know that.

If you suck dick in private but rail against it in public and hold yourself to be holier than, you need to go. Period.

[Karenina]

7. The "William Bennet Syndrome"

has to go.

[Kurovski]

10. High-Roller Willie B?

The man who wanted to score big in the game of moral oneupmanship with the Dems only to crap-out due to his own hypocrisy?

What was his book called? I don't recall. was it "Republicans Are Morally Superior to Democrats Merely Because I say So"?

[Karenina]

15. It's all about "exceptionalism:"

Condi and Clarence are prime examples. The "rules" don't apply to ME.

[dapper]

11. Be Gay...

but you deserve to get your library card taken away for bending over pages. Sorry, that's just the way I feel.

Dap

[Kurovski]

12. I'm more of a daddy-chaser than a page-bender.

But I absolutely agree.:-)

[wicket]

13. Amen

K & R

[carolinayellowdog]

14. Many anti-outing posts are downright abusive

I've been reading other threads, and notice an substantial presence of abusive, vituperative rhetoric, directed (it seems) mostly at gays who support outing, mostly by straights who consider themselves honorary gays and therefore qualified to lecture us. This topic really creates weird fault lines, doesn't it?

[Kurovski]

16. I'll read some more threads, but what I've seen seems to come from

an admirable sense of protectiveness, and a desire to do the right thing. So I somewhat disagree with your idea about "implicit homophobia" stated upthread. Some may be, but I'm not seeing that. It's mostly a really great place that DUers are coming from. There's just a lot of disagreement flying around. Not really too much weirder than the usual fault lines with Democrats. :-)

There are enough gays and lesbians "out" in the world, or rather, in America that have enlightened those around them that I don't think we need to be so worried that this is going to cause an epidemic of homophobia. I would hope that some may mull over some of the thoughts expressed by LGBT folks and come to see that it is a good thing in the long run.

Many also deeply respect the right to privacy, in fact most of us do, but this is, well, a different kind of situation involving public figures who are doing some very real damage.

[mmonk]

26. I'm against outing and I'm also straight.

It's just an opinion on the whole premise of outing. But many try to turn it into something else.

[tblue]

17. As an African American, if there was someone passing for white who

was burning black churches or otherwise hurting black communities, sorry, but I would be wholly in favor of outing that person. Their 'privacy' wouldn't concern me one iota. I am glad to hear the same kind of sentiment from someone from the gay community.

Sad that you'd have to say the gay person needs to babysit the emotions of the homophobes to help them get past their fears. It should be the majority community helping the gay person feel included and whole.

A year or two ago, I heard an interview with Armisted Maupin who said he used to be a conservative Republican, not despite being gay but, BECAUSE he is gay. He said that he felt a need to associate with a party that insisted on very rigid social boundaries to keep that nontraditional side of himself in check by external means. Once he came out of the closet, he didn't relate to being a Republican anymore and he left the GOP for good.

[Kurovski]

19. Going the extra mile for those we love is worth it.

Many parents had grown up hearing truly awful things about gay people, some actually believed it.

I was lucky enough to be independent enough, to feel whole and included enough, to be able to come out at an early age. 14-19. Two stages, Friends and then family.

I was happy to discuss concerns with anyone. It all worked out. Like I said, I was lucky.

[tblue]

28. You sure were lucky. I wish every gay person had that kind of support

and they'd all turn out like you! :hug: Your friends and family are blessed to have you. You have taught them so much just by being you and being brave. I had a relative who, after the fact, we came to understand was gay, and he killed his lover and committed suicide. This was long ago, but I really think the family would have stood with him if he'd wanted to come out, but he never told them. Poor guy was really a mess all his life, looking back on it. You are lucky and so is your family.

[Kurovski]

31. Some people live in areas of the country where coming out

might actually endanger their life. And then there is the example of your relative, perhaps too tortured by fear too come out.

Staying in the closet, or coming out--either way can be difficult. and it's all because of terrible, wasteful foolishness imposed by folks who ultimately know that control and suppression of sexuality is a powerful form of control. You can expect many people to self-regulate in an atmosphere of fear.

It is a form of psychological torture. Young people in the LGBT community have a higher rate of suicide within their age group.

Outing the hypocrisy, letting people know that the folks in Washington who rail against it actually do accept it within their ranks, can only be a good thing when all is said and done.

I have an idea that there are Republicans who are well-known to be gay in Washington. They are out of the closet, but for political reasons it remains an open secret. If that is indeed true, my hope is that there will be a move to swing the closet door open completely by those who know.

Thank you for your kind words, tblue. They made my day. :-)

[Ellipsis]

20. Another hypocrisy is Ed Schultz preannouncing...

the outing to build audience.

Lost some points on that one Ed.

K&R

[mmonk]

27. Yep,

Feeds the whole concept for self-enrichment.

[aaronbees]

22. Best post on this topic all day! Recommended...

People with private lives have public consequence, so the hypocrisy from the Right is a public act meant to keep others down and, as you corectly note, oppressed, all the while promoting a front for Republicans that they're the party of straight folks and goody goody family values. It's a political sham on their end.

[mmonk]

24. Maybe it would.

[Kurovski]

34. Does that mean you're giving this some thought?

I know you dislike the idea of outing, but I'm not sure what your post means, mmonk. :hi:

[KAZ]

25. As much as I hate to do this, but K&R'd

Great post!

[Kurovski]

37. Thank you. Are you also against outing on general principle?

I'm curious as to why you have some resistance to the K&R.

Is it me? It's okay if it is. :-) Thanks again, KAZ.

[Raffi Ella]

29. Beautifully said Kurovski.

:kick:

[Kurovski]

32. Thank you.

I appreciate it.

[deacon]

30. THEY (the GOP and bus) made it this way- screw them

It's a matter of exposing discrimination and the hypocrites that they are.

[donheld]

33. "Just my opinion." and a damn fine opinion it is.

Don't let'em tell you anything else.

[enigmatic]

35. I'm straight

And I completely agree w/ this. And I'll stand beside you every step of the way.

[BlueCentrist]

36. I couldn't agree more with you if I tried.

Very well written.Thank you for taking the time to post and reply so thoughtfully.

[Zhade]

38. Yes, it's outing the hypocrisy, not the orientation.

NT!