Kenneth Lay's Conviction Erased From Record

[ECH1969]

A federal judge in Houston this afternoon wiped away the fraud and conspiracy conviction of Kenneth L. Lay, the Enron Corp. founder who died of heart disease in July, bowing to decades of legal precedent but frustrating government attempts to seize nearly $44 million from his estate.

The ruling worried employees and investors who lost billions of dollars when the Houston energy trading company filed for bankruptcy protection in December 2001. It also came weeks after Congress recessed for the November elections without acting on a last-ditch Justice Department proposal that would have changed the law to allow prosecutors to seize millions in investments and other assets that Lay controlled.

With the judge's order, Lay's conviction on 10 criminal charges will be erased from the record. "The indictment against Kenneth L. Lay is dismissed," U.S. District Judge Simeon T. Lake III wrote in a spare, 13-page order.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/17/AR2006101700808.html

[Dora]

1. Travesty. Farce.

I just hope he's really dead.

[aquart]

3. So his family gets to keep what he stole?

Is it too much to hope his wife murdered him for that?

[htuttle]

16. Ka-Ching!

And who says crime doesn't pay?

You just need to steal A LOT to get away with it.

[Frazzled Educator]

104. And have friends in the right places. eom

[TankLV]

107. and be a REPUKE...

[meldroc]

65. Aren't civil lawsuits still an option?

Essentially, the only reason the criminal case was dismissed was because of Ken Lay's death.

The next logical step would be for all those who were screwed by Ken Lay to sue his estate.

Is there any reason why this can't happen?

[whopis01]

71. This can actually be even better for civil suits

At least for everyone except the government. If he was convicted, the government would get the first cut of anything owed. Tax liens, etc. would take priority over individuals civil cases. Now all the people that lost money because of him are on more equal footing and stand a better chance of getting something out of it.

[elehhhhna]

73. Yes. OJ lost his civil action and he was never convicted.

It won't exactly help, but it should not hurt their case.

[elehhhhna]

72. Yeppers. Every dirty penny. Billions of them. Hope Linda CHOKES on it.

[Kikosexy2]

75. Get that Bitch...

and all that money stolen....Love that kitty btw....sooo funny...

[Imagevision]

85. It started as a scam and ended as the ultimate scam, where do you think

Lay is? Costa Rica, Domincan Republic? Greece? Sr. Bush would know.

[MilesColtrane]

118. Where's Kenny Boy?

My bet would be that he bought an island in the Pacific the day he was indicted.

[George II]

79. I think, and I hope, that his victims can file civil suits.

[Demeter]

121. I'm Not a Lawyer, But My Research Leads Me to Believe

that since precedent exists that the state and the victims can still sue for compensation, just not for penalties, then Lay's entire estate could be forfeit as partial compensation for all who lost in the fraud.

The question is: is there a law firm and enough victims to persist to this end, and will the battle leave anything in compensation? It might still be worth it, to deprive a family that was fully complicit in the fraud from reaping rewards from their patriarch's sudden death.

[ladywnch]

130. let me get my little foil hat........but I believe Lay is still alive

It will be very curious to see if the Lay family moves out of the country in the near future....maybe to the Cayman Islands or some country with no exritdition treaty with teh US.

It would be a beautiful leagal ploy. The fact that this happened right on the heels of this conviction.....prior to his sentencing....... His lawyer had to know this would be the outcome of his "death". What better way to "have it all"

[onenote]

2. since someone will ask: Judge is a Reagan appointee

[MrCoffee]

7. And he ran an EXTREMELY fair trial...stare decisis is what it is

don't blame the judge for following the law. it's fucking ignorant.

[cui bono]

10. another case where legality does not equal fairness. :( n/t

[MrCoffee]

11. boo hoo hoo...there's no equity in a criminal trial.

you'd overturn the jurisprudence of the entire country to screw a dead guy?

[cui bono]

44. when did I say that?

[MrCoffee]

51. when you said "another case where legality does not equal fairness"

[cui bono]

69. still don't see it. Where did I say I wanted to change something?

You should consider paying attention to what I say, not what you choose to read into what I said. You've jumped to quite a conclusion there.

[onenote]

12. I wasn't suggesting blame, just providing info

I would've posted the information about the judge no matter who appointed him. Is it relevant? No. Will people be asking the question? Yes.

But you're right, I should've made clear that I didn't regard it as relevant.

[MrCoffee]

15. Sim Lake is a really good federal judge..to imply some sort of impropriety

based on who appointed him is reprehensible. There's an overwhelming tendency in here to attack federal judges as being personally biased. They are not. If they were, they wouldn't last on the bench for long.

ETA that i KNOW he's fair, i practiced before him a couple of times.

I'm sorry if i was harsh with you, but it's something that really bugs me about DU.

:hi:

[onenote]

19. no problem. I should've been clearer

[TankLV]

110. He's a repuke - NO repukes are to be trusted - ever.

You can take that to the bank...

[Name removed]

117. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

127. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aggiesal]

45. The judge could only rule on precedent. I wouldn't fault him.

Unfortunately, I think the blame lies with the do-nothing-for-the-people-congress.
They had a chance to fix an oversight in the law, so that criminals like Lay should
not get to keep their ill-gotten-gains by death.

Because of this ruling, he lays (no pun intended) in his grave an un-convicted criminal.
Family gets to keep all the money, and swindled investors (some 401K life savings) are
left with nothing.

It wouldn't surprise me if someone went after Lay's family. I'm not condoning this action,
only that it wouldn't surprise me.

[tammywammy]

67. It did mention that

Civil Court is still an option.

So hopefully people will still get something.

[connecticut yankee]

77. Does this mean

that dead people are considered innocent?

[TankLV]

108. So was slavery and "separate but equal".

And, yes, I'd overturn centuries of precident - just like for slavery and other unjust laws...

But thanks for playing...

[TankLV]

109. That's just YOUR opinion.

Not fair or just at all...

[KingFlorez]

26. Of course, trash appoints trash

[rinsd]

28. Well trash here is following the law and due process.

[TankLV]

111. So was slavery and "separate but equal".

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

4. Heart Attack My ASS.

See....even from his grave, he's LAUGHING down at us.

Just like Budd Dwyer, he's a repub who is worth more dead than alive.

The law is the law, and this was inevitible. Such a shame that there are so many ways for people to beat the system. He might be dead, but his CRIMES will live on in memory only.

[LeftofU]

42. I want to see the body.

Uday and Qusay style.

[Imagevision]

99. Bush can fix an election, Start a war, Sell us Lay's death - noone will

ever top what Bush has pulled off, and I think he'll start paying for his misdeeds after the house & senate are democratic, then we will see Bush visiting Crawford quite often, and Cheney? he will of course go the "heart issues" problems forcing him to resign so Rice can be bumoped into the VP. slot.

[AZBlue]

119. His "grave" is a remote island somewhere.

Someplace warm where he can relax and recover from all the plastic surgery.

[QuestionAll...]

5. and justice for all...

yeah, sure
bring it on
disgusting slime-oid system

btw, that corporate welfare leechingsucker is not dead.

[LibDemAlways]

17. I'm with you. The smarmy, crooked bastard is

living it up in a very remote location - at US taxpayer expense, no doubt - courtesy of the Bush Crime Family. I'd sure love to get a peek at his family's travel itineraries these past few months. I'll bet he's had visitors already.

[OnionPatch]

84. I think you're spot on

These are the most powerful, corrupt people in the world. Faking Kenny Boy's death is small potatoes to them.

[El Supremo]

6. Wow, you CAN take it with you!

:sarcasm:

[Tin Man]

9. LOL

...kinda sorta, it would seem.

[A HERETIC I AM]

13. Actually, his wife gets it.

I would think he set up a trust for his wife and if it is in certain assets, it couldnt have been touched anyway, or certainly a large portion of it. Certain life insurance policies, for instance would have shielded the money from the courts.

[MrCoffee]

8. "decades of legal precedent"--it's called stare decisis

it means "let the decision stand". it's precedent. you don't mess with precedent without an extremely good reason.

of course the indictment was tossed out. that's what happens when a criminal defendent dies prior to sentancing.

[madrchsod]

14. it`s called -legal precedent- which is the foundation of our law

whether or not you agree with the ruling would you want to do away with one the foundations of our legal system? we lost one of those foundations today, i don`t think we can afford to lose another.

[valerief]

53. Oh, so another rich thief got to take it with him before Lay, so

now Lay gets to take it with him. I see how it works.

[MrCoffee]

57. clearly you have a firm grip of the legal system.

got your elbow firmly on the pulse of American Jurisprudence, do you?

how would you go about sentencing a dead person, exactly? i'd love to hear your answer.

[MGKrebs]

68. Easy. Forfeit of ill gotten gains he was convicted of.

[valerief]

101. Tres bon. nt

[TankLV]

113. How about a real "death tax"?!?!

I'm sure the repukes would LOVE to argue against THAT type for THIS circumstance!

[tammywammy]

64. Exactly

I read a few articles just after Lay died, stating that his conviction would most certantly be overturned, since he died before sentencing.

[CTyankee]

18. Let's all join hands, sing Kumbaya, and MOVE ON

A few weeks til the election. We've got work to do!

[Parche]

20. ken

So he is smiling in the Cayman Islands now..................

[bigluckyfeet]

22. I Thought He was Supposed

To be Broke,I have heard this more than once.

[disndat]

25. Hahaha

My thoughts precisely. The circumstances after the announcement of his death were extremely suspicious. No one was allowed to see the body. BushCo got away with another big one.

[Cooley Hurd]

21. Sooooo... has there been INDEPENDENT proof that he did indeed die?

Sorry for the :tinfoilhat:, but money can buy anything, even an alibi of death.:grr:

[SmokingJacket]

23. I'm not a tin-foiler on this topic, but...

What a great scam it would be, huh? I mean if you could cheat your stockholders and employees out of millions, get caught, and just as you were about to be sentenced, poof, fake your death and start a new life in, I don't know, Paraguay.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/kpete/1600

[Poiuyt]

29. Remember how Juliet faked her death in Romeo and Juliet?

Of course she didn't end up on the Bush estate in Paraguay.

[GreenTea]

33. Lay had over five years to get his hidden offshore accounts and whatever

else he needed to live extremely comfortable somewhere in this world.

Now that there are no charges against him.... I'd tail the wife, or mistress to see if the fucker Lay is indeed dead, as I hope!!!!

No one ever saw the body, just had to go by the Island official's word, but then, they can't be bought, can they?

[SammyWinstonJack]

35. Funny, I was thinking the same thing, Paraguay.

[earth mom]

70. Paraguay. Where Lay gets to take it with him.

:puke:

[Sperk]

24. gee, I wonder if there's gonna be a wire transfere to an undisclosed

location. now i know he alive somewhere.

[marmar]

27. The land of liberty and justice for all...

If you're a wealthy contributor to BushCo.

[yodermon]

30. There is no way this man is fucking dead.

Sorry.

He's in paraguay waiting for poppy and junior, with johnny gosch tied & up & waiting.

mother fucking fucker.

[malaise]

36. Bingo n/t

[hvn_nbr_2]

62. Bush's new ranch in Paraguay (or is it Uruguay?)

That must be where he is, and that's part of why they bought the ranch. They'll all be there when the war crimes indictments come down.

[AtomicKitten]

31. I say dig up that bastard and show us a corpse.

eom

[w4rma]

34. He was "cremated". He has no grave site, to my knowledge. (nt)

[Thor_MN]

88. Considering the costs of the continual cleaning all the urine and spit,

it's probably best he doesn't have a grave site....

[mazzarro]

38. Was he not cremated?

I thought he or the empty box was cremated - so no way to check on the identity of the supposed deceased. If he scammed the system, I will not be surprised at all - it the way of the rich and powerful.

[Imagevision]

86. show us a corpse? - why do you think he was "cremated"?? duh!

[AtomicKitten]

91. duh ???

Um, maybe because I didn't know he was created perhaps???????

[petepillow]

32. He. Is. NOT. Dead.

can anyone prove that he's not hiding in a tropical paradise?

[Stewie]

76. How do you prove a negative?

While we're at it, why don't we force the Argentinian government to prove Hitler isn't dead?

[petepillow]

131. picky picky. i guess i stand corrected.

though i'm sure you knew what i meant, and i'm sure this is a waste of my time to explain what i meant, i will rephrase...

is there any proof that he is, in fact, dead? there. now i don't feel so silly.

sheesh.

[SoCalDem]

37. Linda Lay just became the world's most "eligible" bachelorette.

:puke:

Now I REALLY wonder if KennyBoy's death was "natural"..:eyes:

[glitch]

41. I don't. Convenience, like coincidence, has it's limits.

I do feel sorry for the stiff that looked like him. Watch the careers of all involved, I say.
I bet Linda finds a lovely home in Paraguay...;)

(Only half-kidding, I wouldn't put anything past these people.)

[elehhhhna]

74. Linda already HAS an untouchable annuity that pays 33K PER MONTH

or is it 43K?

[Dragonbreathp9d]

39. "Surprise! I'm not dead! Ever heard of double jeopardy?"

[dougkeenan]

46. Word. What's the precedent if he should turn up again?

I try to keep the foil off but this just smells.

[The Backlash Cometh]

40. Boy, a terminal politician can really clean up with those laws in place.

[leftofthedial]

43. bullshit

there is NO justice in America

and no rule of law

[Blue_Tires]

120. there is plenty of justice

if you have the cash to shell out for it!:sarcasm:

[Zambero]

47. This one even tops the "Death Tax" repeal

Crime definitely pays. Keep that dirty ill-gotten money in Lay's estate. And screw those who were ruined because of his crimes.

[Initech]

48. Un fucking believable.

[MissMillie]

49. so when a murderer is executed, is his conviction erased too?

:shrug:

[tammywammy]

58. No

If someone if convicted of murder, but the sentencing hasn't come down, then murder conviction is erased.

If you're sentenced, then it's not erased, because the whole process is complete.

I'm pretty sure this is accurate, after Ken Lay died I read a few articles about this at the time.

[Sgent]

97. Almost

you have to have a chance to appeal the sentance.

[tammywammy]

100. I've read that now.

:)

At least I was close. :)

[katinmn]

50. Can't say I'm surprised. Bush's good buddy, after all

[Auggie]

52. Once again the victims get screwed.

[goforit]

54. He's still alive folks. Just hunt him down and you will see.

[spanone]

55. There ain't no fucking justice, period.

[dogday]

56. I believe K. Lay is alive and living off the

coast of Dubai... The Palm Islands or even the World Islands where you actually own your own island... The new rich playground in the middle east....

[bdamomma]

112. well wherever he is, he is resting very comfortably and laughing

his ass off.

[HelloDubya]

59. Are we sure he's dead?

I speculated at the time of his "death" that it was a convenient means to ship him off to a nice condo on a resort island. Seems equally convenient that his money is now available for plunder. Isn't our justice system wonderful? Speaking of which, remember that Oliver North had his conviction overturned right in the middle of Gulf War I - didn't really even hit the papers.

[Orrex]

63. Welcome to DU, HelloDubya!

:hi:

My guess is that Ken Lay had his brain surgically implanted into a strong, young, and unwitting volunteer who will soon be named as trustee of Lay's fortune.

[RedStateShame]

60. Happy National Character Counts Week!!! n/t

[derby378]

61. Ladies and gentlemen, the first major pardon of the Bush regime...

And there you have it. The little guy gets screwed again.

:mad:

[Ksec]

66. Poor rich people

I feel sorry for them....

[scarface2004]

78. lay is alive!!!

he s running a sunglass kiosk at the willowbrook mall until it blows over. he s had extensive plastic surgery, looks like a middle aged asian man now!!!

[whistle]

80. Corporate white collar crime pays

[ncteechur]

81. Frankly, I hope the bastard rots in hell. He deserves it.

[Subdivisions]

82. OUT-FUCKING-RAGEOUS!!! That's a bunch of bullshit! I'm

sick of this shit. Fucking criminals. PAH!!!

[Imagevision]

83. Got to hand it to Lay, he pulled it off niccceee. plus keeps 44 mil.

smart move Kenny-Boy... Bush even tells Gonzo to calm down investigations

[greiner3]

87. So Kenny is alive!

South Park brought him back. The xtians believe their god brought someone back. Now, live and in person, I present to you, drum roll please...

[B Calm]

89. Damn right he's alive!! What the republicans have done to our

judicial system is a tragedy!

[Thor_MN]

90. Moral of the story, if you are diagnosed with a terminal disease,

steal whatever you can, give it to your family and die before you can be sentenced...

[Imagevision]

92. Lay couldn't have died at a better time, just before he's sentenced to

prison time?!! - It's a better scam then the Enron Scam itself, no published pic's of his corpse, he's quickly cremated so there's no exumation of the body for proof, Bush tells Gonzalez not to investigate? - ya really got to handle ir to this crew, they nailed everybody.

The latest pic's of Rove & the Dork laughing is probably due to Rove whispering to Bush; " wait till they hear about Lay tomorrow!"

[zulchzulu]

93. It'$ fanta$tic $eeing Ju$tice era$e Kenny Boy'$ pa$t mi$takes

$hit!

Time for a nice ad...

[LetsGoMurphys]

94. Lets see if SCOTUS *bows*

to the FUCKING CONSTITUTION when a habeus corpus case is granted cert.

[TheCowsCameHome]

95. Hey Kenny, did you hear the good news? You're free!

Tell us where to wire the money, OK?

[TankLV]

115. Hello. I am for representing a very wealthy indivual in Nigeria.

We are trouble having now money spending, and we are for looking americans to serve for us as trustees of financial.

Please so kind be to us send your bank account informasion and socal securite numerals ...

[Imagevision]

96. Probably Bush's idea, it would have made too many waves pardoning Lay

from a lenghty prison term on his way out of DC. Not good for his legacy? ha!

[samplegirl]

98. Kenny Boy

Paraguay Baby!!!!!!!!!!

[Anakin Skywalker]

102. WTF? Where is the F*cking JUSTICE in this?

[The Count]

103. As even NY post wondered on its cover at the time

[OzarkDem]

105. Can this be overturned?

The question I would like to have answered is "why"?

[TankLV]

106. Repuke judges strike again. This is so patently unjust and unfair.

Lessons learned:

The rich get away with murder...

There is a separate system of justice for the very wealthy and repukes, and a different one for the rest of us and democrats.

This stinks to high heaven.

Lay (who was "cremated" without any witnesses) can now enjoy the rest of his life whereever he has hidden himself...

[Jim Lane]

125. People should stop blaming the "Repuke" judge.

I think this legal rule predated the Bush Administration. I have no reason to believe it's applied differently to Democrats.

The fundamental principle is part of the rule of law -- no one should be penalized without notice of the charges against him or her, an opportunity to be heard, and, in our system, the right to appeal on legal issues.

Stop blaming a judge who respects the rule of law. Turn your attention to a Congress and President who don't. From now on, if the Bush Administration has it in for somebody, they won't have to bother with formal charges or a trial, and they certainly won't be hindered by any judges who enforce generally applicable precedents equally. The undesirable person can simply be seized, imprisoned, and left there to rot. There will be no charges, no trial, no appeal, and, for that matter, no judges involved.

[bridgit]

114. i thought he moved to Paraguay...

and sleeps in a coffin atop a little pile of california dirt :shrug:

[lies and propaganda]

116. wow. he must not be dead afterall.

That, or this fucking activist judege has lost his goddamned mind.

[B Calm]

122. The closed casket funeral & speedy cremation was a dead giveaway!

[Bridget Burke]

123. There was NO casket at either memorial service.

Lay died suddenly in an isolated cabin in Colorado, his fine homes in Aspen having been sold. The heart attack was surprising, although later stories said he'd had heart trouble all along. Lay was apparently cremated just after the autopsy & a coffin-free memorial service was held in Colorado.

Then a large memorial service was held at Houston's First Methodist Church. ("Not typical funerary practice for Houston's Upper Class," pronounces the Inner Anthropologist.)

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

124. If Kenny Lay is dead I'm the fucking King of Spain...

...Is there really well established precedent for this?---the practice of erasing a conviction if death occurs before sentencing? Does somebody know?

Enron's creditors are being cheated yet again here.

[erpowers]

126. Alive

Is anyone thinking he is alive. I am beginning to think that he may just have faked his death. If I had the money I would probably go to Colorado and see if I could get pictures of him at his house out there. You can call me a conspiracy theorist if you would like.


On the other point I agree with other that, even though this was the law, it was wrong and a travesty. His conviction should have been upheld and the government should have gone after his estate.

[corkhead]

128. I have wondered from day one. I didn't see any proof that he is dead and

they supposedly burned his body. I suspect he will be an exiled chimpy's towel boy in Paraguay

[onenote]

132. what sort of proof did you want to see?

ANd do you usually get to see such proof?

[B Calm]

133. Just like Saddam Hussein's boys, I wanted to see pictures!

[izzybeans]

129. If there was funny business to his death my guess is he killed himself

and the lie is that he had a heart attack.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

134. HE ISN'T DEAD...NOBODY SAW THE BODY!

he's living in Daubi