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Pamela Troy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:33 PM
Original message
Hating America
While browsing about on the Internet recently, I came upon some comments about a post on Lindsay Beyerstein’s liberal website, Majikthise. It seems that among the responses to her essay about the Lancet Report on Iraqi deaths, she received the following

“What do your kind think you know ?

You leftwing shitballs poison the well for all of us Americans, but your kind do no better .

It is not that you and your kind don't have the right to call yourselves Americans, you do not deserve to live .
That goes for all of you shit-balls in New York City-an urban cesspool that hopefull will get nuked in the near future !”

http://majikthise.typepad.com/majikthise_/2006/10/i_get_letters.html

There’s nothing especially new or surprising about this. Similar comments can be found throughout the right-wing blogosphere. They can also unfortunately be found in the commentary of more well-known pundits like Ann Coulter and Bill O’Reilly. As someone who lives in San Francisco, I haven’t forgotten Bill’s valentine to this city:

“And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we're not going to do anything about it. We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead.”
11/05

Coit Tower was built as a memorial to San Francisco’s volunteer firemen, the heroes who fought the many destructive and deadly fires that tore through this city in the wake of the Gold Rush. It houses spectacular American murals from the 1930s. It stands atop Telegraph Hill, a beautiful and densely populated residential neighborhood of lovingly tended gardens and houses that visitors can enjoy by walking up or down the Filbert Street steps. If you’re lucky, you’ll see the flock of wild Conyers that has made Telegraph Hill its home, green, raucous parrots with red heads who call to each other from the trees and sometimes fly off in a dazzling flash of green and blue. Climb the hill on a clear night, stand in the pavilion in front of Coit Tower, the one that’s overlooked by the statue of Christopher Columbus, and you can see San Francisco spread out and shining beneath you and hear the far away barking of the seals that have made their home on Fisherman’s Wharf.

And Bill O’Reilly, an American, announced publicly that it’s okay with him to see this place destroyed, the houses and gardens incinerated along with the Americans who live there. And many Americans applauded what he said.

It’s a peculiar brand of “patriotism” that is most often invoked by the very people who are quickest to label others as “America haters.” These are the Americans who express the hope of seeing some of our greatest treasures destroyed. New York City, the home of the Statue of Liberty, Ellis Island, Central Park, the Strand Bookstore, Times Square, Broadway -- all of that, they say, can be spared and good riddance. Nuke it. The same goes for San Francisco, that most American of cities, with its lively history, its Golden Gate Bridge, Chinatown, the filigreed houses clinging to its hills. New Orleans? Why bother rebuilding that amazing place, restoring to us the black lace of its famous iron balconies, its yearly parades, its food, the soft strange accents of its residents? Only stupid people would live in a place so far below sea level.

They call certain American cities “cesspools,” their residents “scum.” They declare they and the rest of the country could do very well without places like San Francisco or Los Angeles or Berkeley or New York City, or even the entire East Coast or the state of California.

It’s not just a matter of geography, of course, but something deeper, more important. San Francisco is hated by these people, not because of our fog or our hills, but because we are an unusually liberal, tolerant city, a haven for nonconformists. New York is hated, not because of its weather, but because of its sophistication, its brilliance, and its diversity.

I don’t understand this weirdly limited form of “patriotism.” I’ve lived in and visited many places in this country, the South, the Midwest, the Northeast, the Northwest, the Southwest. Obviously I have preferences. San Francisco is currently my home and I hope to live here for the rest of my life. But I still think of myself as a southerner because I can’t bear not to consider myself as connected to the American south. And I love every inch of this country.

Chapel Hill, Deerfield, Monroe, Greensboro, Charleston, Chattanooga, New York City, Lookout Mountain, Slidell, Pittsburgh, Hanalei, Wrightsville Beach, Fuqay Varina, Dallas, Corpus Christie, Galveston, Seattle, Los Angeles, New Orleans Lodi, Berkeley, Houston, Baton Rouge, Chicago, Honolulu, Vicksburg, Texarkana, Fayetteville, Blowing Rock, Destin, Miami, Sedona, San Francisco, Santa Fe, Taos, Albuquerque, Shreveport, New Brunswick, Boston, Philadelphia, Biloxi, Highland Park, Kapaa, Los Gatos, Santa Barbara…

“America hater” that I am, I couldn’t spare a single one of them.

Or any of the people. Which is another thing I don’t get. Not only do these “patriots” relish the prospect of American cities being destroyed, they frequently talk about the Americans they’d like to see hurt or killed. Michael Savage recently announced that Madeline Albright should be hanged. Coulter is well known for declaring that liberals – people like me and my family – are only restrained from treason by fear for our physical safety, and must be kept in line by the occasional execution of a fellow “disloyal” American. And I can’t forget many of the comments from so-called “patriots” who proclaimed themselves happy about the deaths of Americans Marla Ruzicka, (“Good Riddance to that piece of filth” said a Freeper) and Rachel Corrie (“a well earned death” one right-wing blogger called it.)

There are things about this country and its history I don’t love. The lynching epidemic that extended from the late 19th to the mid twentieth century is one big and horrific example. But I’d never be willing to amputate entire chunks of the American South because lynching was endemic there. And you will never catch me relishing the thought of any American – even one who’s viewpoint I hate, even some white supremacist apologist for lynching – being beaten or tortured or murdered.

More and more I am seeing Americans – some of them quite well-known and powerful -- expressing their “patriotism” by turning to point at other Americans and directly or indirectly declaring them the enemy for no other reason than that those other Americans represent a part of this country that they have always feared and disliked.

Our constitution, and the fact that it allows such diversity of thought and belief is radical and therefore deeply frightening to many people, including, apparently, many who were born here. I don’t believe that it’s really the trauma of 9/11 that has prompted the increasing expression of this self-loathing, this rejection of our most important principles. I think it has always existed to some extent, and the “War on Terror” has merely provided some with a rationale to jettison American ideals they have never fully understood or liked.

The greatness that would be lost if we tossed overboard those all-too-frequently hated concepts that have shaped our literature, our history, our culture, will be incalculable. Without those ideals we would not have had that blasphemous satirist, Mark Twain, the bracing blast of American Jazz, and later, Rock and Roll, Arthur Miller’s heartfelt questioning of the American Dream in Death of a Salesman, Hollywood with its often underestimated penchant for nuance, whether in the Westerns of John Ford or Budd Boetticher, or the dark mirror provided by the gangsters of film noir and Francis Ford Coppola’s epic Godfather series.

Without the freedom to question, without hotbeds of liberalism, “intellectual elitism” and dissent like San Francisco, or New York, or Berkeley, or lesser-known enclaves like Chapel Hill North Carolina or Fayetteville Arkansas, what would be left of this country but the simple-minded repetition of a single viewpoint and maybe some good scenery? Beautiful scenery, I’ll grant you, but physical beauty is tragic when the eyes looking out from a lovely face have no intelligence.

As someone who loves America, I also love the right of Americans to say “I hope you are destroyed” to an American city or “You don’t deserve to live” to a fellow American who disagrees with them. But I can’t pretend to understand it, or to hear it growing in frequency and volume without feeling rage. And fear at its implications for my country.


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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. What an incredibly well written piece ...
I, too, have wondered at this new 'patriotism' that applauds the desire of one American to see violence done to a fellow citizen, or the destruction of any of our beautiful cities.

You have brilliantly captured the insanity of it all. Let's hope for the end of that insanity in the years to come.

K&R!
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thingfisher Donating Member (445 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. IT'S CALLED CHAUVANISM
Patriotism is only legitimate when the people of a nation believe that their elected officials are truly representing their interests and that national policy reflects their desires and represents their values.

Hatred for segments of society that dare to express dissent regarding the self serving political policies of the ruling elite is par for an incipient fascist state. Is there really a lot of difference between, "If you're not with us you are with the terrorists and "One land, one people, one Fuhrer"?

Fascism can only exist when dissent is equated with disloyalty and refusal to follow the leader is treason.

Amerika has been hijacked by an elite group of fascist thugs who rigged elections, destroyed the Bill of Rights, launched an illegal and unnecessary war and who fan the flames of suspicion while posing as the guardians of "our way of life".

As a youth I wondered how the German people could have possibly allowed such criminals like the Nazis to take over their country. Well, now I've lived through something similar and I see that it happens gradually and plays on the naivite of the masses who have faith in the good intentions of those who seek leadership.

And we all thought,"It can't happen here!"
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
25. hrrmm it's ChauvinIsm (jingoism)
Chauvinism is extreme and unreasoning partisanship on behalf of a group to which one belongs, especially when the partisanship includes malice and hatred towards a rival group. The term is derived from the undocumented Nicolas Chauvin, whose legend made him out to be a soldier under Napoleon Bonaparte whose fanatical zeal for his Emperor induced him, though wounded seventeen times in the Napoleonic Wars, to continue nevertheless to fight for France. It is claimed he yelled in the Battle of Waterloo when the French were finally defeated: "The Old Guard dies but does not surrender!", implying blind and unquestionized zeal to one's country .

The origin and early usage indicate that chauvinisme was coined to describe excessive nationalism, and the original French term retains this meaning today. The term entered public use due to a satirical treatment of Chauvin in the French play La Cocarde Tricolore (The Tricolore Cockade).

The term in English now usually means Male chauvinism, while an equivalent for the original meaning is jingoism.

Chauvinism as nationalism
In "Imperialism, Nationalism, Chauvinism", in The Review of Politics 7.4, (October 1945), p. 457, Hannah Arendt describes the concept:

Chauvinism is an almost natural product of the national concept insofar as it springs directly from the old idea of the "national mission." ... (A) nation's mission might be interpreted precisely as bringing its light to other, less fortunate peoples that, for whatever reason, have miraculously been left by history without a national mission. As long as this concept did not develop into the ideology of chauvinism and remained in the rather vague realm of national or even nationalistic pride, it frequently resulted in a high sense of responsibility for the welfare of backward peoples.
(See, for example, white man's burden.)

The word does not require a judgment that the chauvinist is right or wrong in his opinion, only that he is blind and unreasoning in coming to it, ignoring any facts which might temper his fervor. In modern use, however, it is often used pejoratively to imply that the chauvinist is both unreasoning and wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chauvinism

at least Chauvin was a hero. The guys you are talking about are fascists, which is different.
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byronius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. A most excellent avatar, and Welcome to the Center of the Cyclone, DU.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. A fond welcome to DU....
:toast: Excellent Post! I was raised right outside DC, grew up in New Orleans and now I'm on the coast of North Carolina and I can say that pockets of hatred are everywhere. It's ignorance and intolerance for anything and everyone that is not like them. I feel actually somewhat sorry for these hate mongers, they have no joy or appreciation for the greatness that is the diversity of this country. Thanks -
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nosferaustin Donating Member (127 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well said
Recommended!
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. I guess there's two Americas now.
One that I love and one that I hate. The one I love is the one that follows the Constitution. The other is more akin to Nazi Germany.

I don't know. What do I know? I'm not worthy of posting on this forum according to some here. But that's why I love that "other" America. It's about tolerance. Acceptance. Caring. And regulating the damage done by the money lovers.

I love posts like yours. Ones that shine a light on the disease that lurks deep in the darnkness of this country. Thanks for braving the ugliness.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. excellent piece! And welcome to DU!
From another southern-born DUer living in San Francisco :toast:
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. But their adored Limpballs, O"really etc live in said cesspools and would
get nuked along the liberal scum. Do they think it's worth it or would the presence of those luminaries be worth granting NYC a reprieve? I'd be curious...
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Beautiful. Perhaps you have to travel to realize everywhere has it's own
value. It's second nature for me to travel, but I do know some people who never leave their home town, and not because they can't afford to. I guess it's easier for some to virtually wipe out an entire city when they can't or won't even visualize it.
Perhaps the same instinct that keeps them at home allows them to callously discard another's.
One thing that leaps through their words is their own fear of everything.

Thanks for posting. K & R
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. The good 'Murkins in the heartland.........
don't need no big city, liberal queers tellin' THEM how to live, by gum! Nope, their values are the absolute best and anyone who doesn't adhere to those values can go live in another country, or be executed, or be put in concentration camps and get out of THEIR 'murca. THEIR 'MURCA!

If it wasn't for those "big cities" the freaking "heartland" would cease to exist. If the "heartland" were to exist only upon the tax dollars they generate the "heartland" wouldn't last over a week. Those "big cities", and the taxes they pay, allow "the heartland" to exist, plain and simple. The "heartland" is a drain upon our country, a parasite that is now not only draining our country of it's resources but telling it's host that's it's WRONG about the way it nourishes it! Fuck them! :grr:

Some say we should embrace these people and their values. Bullshit. I'm tired of kissing these imbeciles asses, hoping that SOMEDAY they'll wake up and see that the very people they keep electing to protect "their values" are screwing them AND their fucking values into the ground.

I AM considering moving out of this county. NOT because I don't "share their values", but because my tolerance for the rank stupidity of these people is decreasing rapidly. It's never going to change. There are just too many god-damned stupid people in this country for my taste.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I Agree
At times I get so fed up with these idiots that I want to leave the country, too. I don't want to kiss their asses, either. They are ruining my country & I don't think they deserve any nice talk from me. They certainly have nothing nice to say about Democrats like me. Turnabout is fair play.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
27. There are a lot of democrats in the heartland.
Slower, more easygoing way of life. Not as many pushy in-your-face people. A lot of positives. In addition, if you didn't have the heartland, food could become a very expensive and hard to find commodity. And no, the heartland would not cease to exist without the big cities because we have the food supply.

Generalizations are neither intelligent or accurate.
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ClintonTyree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. But Democrats are certainly the minority party........
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 05:32 AM by ClintonTyree
in the "heartland". It must be tough to live near so many that hate you because you don't share their "values". I realize that the "heartland" is also the "breadbasket".
"Generalizations are neither intelligent or accurate". How right you are. Now try to convince your neighbors in the "heartland" that it's true. They seem to have generalized the Democratic party to sound bite size as pure evil. Good luck banging your head against that wall.
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cornermouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. Bush and gas prices have made quite a few of them really angry.
Polls around here show bad things for republicans in general. We'll see how the elections turn out.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #27
41. "Generalizations are neither intelligent or accurate"
Agree completely! :toast:

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freedomchips Donating Member (35 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
10. let's hope that ilk is a lot smaller than they are loud
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. I dont hate America....
...And I dont think any citizen of it it does, its the people that 'run' the country that is not liked. Specially ShrubCo...
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
12. Well done!
Thank you for this wonderful, insightful, and positive essay!
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. You were sent such an ugly, stunted and bitter message,
and yet you respond with perfectly beautiful writing, filled with a celebration of what makes America great. It is clear who truly hates, and hates America.

The imagery is almost like painting, and it flows like oils on primed canvas.

You're something else. I welcomed you before, but welcome again. Please come around more often, Ms. Troy.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. I agree, but your statement makes me feel very sad.
You said something wonderful, something healing.

But there are no Democratic candidates, either local, statewide or national, that's saying anything similar.

The great evil that's been done by the Bushies and their media whores is precisely that division of the country. And it's a division that has won them a temporary boon for the last couple of elections - although I'm sure some people can point to Reagan's "law and order" as disguised racism, and similar things in other elections.

Nobody on our side has said that this divisiveness is wrong, that one of America's most central beliefs is the acceptance of people who differ with you as fellow Americans, no matter what disagreements you might have.

See, I believe that the only person who can heal this country is someone like a Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and there are very few potential candidates who would even qualify to push his wheelchair.
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tlsmith1963 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Those People are the Ones...
Edited on Tue Oct-17-06 08:25 PM by tlsmith1963
...who really hate America. A person who truly loved America wouldn't be glad if certain landmarks were destroyed. I think we need to point this out whenever we can. Far-right weirdos are the true haters.
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
16. I TOLD YOU ALREADY!
Edited on Tue Oct-17-06 09:05 PM by Anakin Skywalker
I told you "libruls" and "your kind" to continue flying, and eating the spinach so that you won't be accused of hating America! Also, don't forget to SUPERSIZE your Freedom Fries orders, OK?
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holboz Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
17. Gorgeous piece, and welcome to DU!
It seems to me that people like Bill-o should be named an enemy combatant because those sort of outrageous statements give comfort and instruction to our enemies. How dare he call himself patriotic but call for the destruction of major US cities? SWINE.

I hope the Repukes are happy with the atmosphere they have created in this country. There was a time when we used to think of ourselves as one. But the Rethugs, with the help of MSM, have created the "Red state / Blue state" mentality. "Us" and "Them". I hate what they have done to this country.

We must all hang together or we will all hang separately.

BTW, I live in Bentonville, Arkansas and have relatives in Texarkana. :hi:
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FredStembottom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 11:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. Just Beautiful!
This essay really rises to the top!

And best of all gets ME to wonder if I have taken this vicious talk against fellow Americans too lightly.
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GusConsultore Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
19. opinions against iraq
what's so infuriating about this is that only in the u.s. is the debate stifled, and only in the u.s. is it considered unpatriotic... a round up of editorials from only one day from mainstream media in countries allied with the u.s. 'war on terror' shows opinion resoundingly against bush and against iraq war... this is from 'friends,' not 'enemies' canada, uk, australia, korea -- even israel! only u.s. doesn't allow the debate

http://www.miserywatch.com/2006/10/its_bad_out_the.html
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
21. Very well said, and welcome to DU!
:applause:
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
22. The spirit of Walt Whitman lives in your words...
This may be one of the most patriotic and poetic things I've ever read. I am moved beyond human expression...:cry:

Thank you, and welcome, welcome, welcome to DU!
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Stardust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
23. Brilliant. Welcome to DU. I've lived all over this country, too, and a
fair share ourside it. Thank gods for the hotbeds and enclaves where liberalism can flourish and plan. Even though the place where I've chosen to settle down this last time is costly, I feel warmed by a sense that most of us if we are on any wavelength at all, it's the same wavelength. Apathy hasn't completely infected everyone.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 01:59 AM
Response to Original message
24. Man, a GLORIOUS post.
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 02:24 AM by calimary
Every word is worth savoring, but I'm particularly struck by this:

Without the freedom to question, without hotbeds of liberalism, “intellectual elitism” and dissent like San Francisco, or New York, or Berkeley, or lesser-known enclaves like Chapel Hill North Carolina or Fayetteville Arkansas, what would be left of this country but the simple-minded repetition of a single viewpoint and maybe some good scenery? Beautiful scenery, I’ll grant you, but physical beauty is tragic when the eyes looking out from a lovely face have no intelligence.

A formidable essay - MAN-OH-MAN... Welcome to DU!!! Glad you're here, and it's an honor that you're on our side!

Perhaps the only thing that's even nominally redeemable about the horrific nightmare we're living through (especially today - Tuesday the 17th, the Death of Habeas Corpus) is that it provokes writing like this.

BRAVA, Pamela!!! BRAVA!!!

I'm bookmarking this thread just so I can find this one again.

:yourock:

BTW - it's an illuminating way to describe (and to explain) george w. bush. He always hated traveling and did as little of it as possible.
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tocqueville Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
26. THEY HATE YOU FOR YOUR FREEDOM !
in that case, it really makes sense.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
29. Beautifully said
What makes this so frightening at this time is that our "leaders" have made this kind of talk acceptable in our country today. They have not said this openly in so many words, but all of their actions clearly send that message.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
30. Welcome to DU
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
31. What Blows Me Away about the Right Wing's Hatred for the Left?
We aren't even in power nor are we responsible for their demise.... they did it all themselves.

What comes to mind here: "Drunken husband gets home pissed off and beats wife because co-workers were teasing him all day long."

This characterizes the right wing well...

Problem: They are about to get their collective asses handed to them for picking this fight.
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Mynameissalvatore Donating Member (53 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
32. I might have a solution
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
33. As a current resident of Chapel Hill, native of New York City,
and former resident of northern New Jersey, Southern California, Missouri, and Nebraska, I want to applaud you for your beautifully written, insightful essay.

I have experienced pockets of bigotry in the heartland (and came away thinking the motto of Nebraska should be 'ignorant and proud of it')
and the South. I love living among the tolerant, curious, liberal-leaning folk of Chapel Hill. But my husband and I are building a retirement home in Bocas del Toro, Panama, because we fear for the future of this country.
Whether we'll actually retire there full-time remains to be seen, and probably won't be decided until 2008. We tell ourselves we are 'hoping for the best and planning for the worst'.

I really believe you have put your finger on a critical point: those who have travelled extensively, both within the U.S. and outside the U.S. often have a more expansive, inclusive view of the world. It is an education to be exposed to people who do things differently, think differently, even speak with a different accent or in another language.
And yet, we are all human. We are made up of the same chemicals, we want the same things for our families, we all face the inevitable death.
We have to learn to live with each other and respect our differences while cherishing our similarities. If we don't, we're done.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
34. Have you seen the latest hateful t-shirt for neocons?
It has pictures of Bill and Hillary with the caption, Do NOT Resuscitate.

This is what Limbaugh, Hannity, Rove, and of course, Dick and DUHbya have wrought.

Even we moral relativists (as if) know right from wrong, and these people are dead wrong.

Newsprism
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 09:01 AM
Response to Original message
35. Oh, the irony!
I always wondered how the jingoists in Texas could say that "we" were attacked on 9/11 when they hate and disavow any connection to NYC, and would likely blow it up themselves if not for being "restrained from treason by fear for (their) physical safety".
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
36. Here! Here!
Kicked and recommended. And welcome to DU.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
37. Thank you for the excellent commentary.
Our constitution, and the fact that it allows such diversity of thought and belief is radical and therefore deeply frightening to many people, including, apparently, many who were born here. I don’t believe that it’s really the trauma of 9/11 that has prompted the increasing expression of this self-loathing, this rejection of our most important principles. I think it has always existed to some extent, and the “War on Terror” has merely provided some with a rationale to jettison American ideals they have never fully understood or liked.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Welcome to DU.
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rubberducky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
38. Such beautiful words..............
MUST come from a beautiful heart!! Welcome,welcome!! k&r, of course!
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Perry Mason Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
39. Pandemic Discourtesy
I very much share the author’s observations and concerns in this exceptionally well-written essay.

Unfortunately, I feel compelled to add that such jaw-dropping hatefulness is hardly limited to political and ideological discourse. America is rapidly becoming a nation drastically impeded by pandemic discourtesy in almost every facet of life. Not one day goes by that I am not acutely aware of how people are just NOT NICE anymore.

In the grocery store we must navigate around people that push their cart down the MIDDLE of the aisle and obstruct all other customers as they pause to read all the boxes on the shelf, with apparently no idea what they want. In the shopping malls we are inconvenienced by similar types who stand in the middle of what is obviously intended as a walkway to have a conversation with each other. At the Post Office there is that one special customer, even though the line is backed up through the lobby and out into the rain, they make the clerk show them every single stamp they have before they decide which ones to buy (and all of these stamps were plainly on display in a glass case in full view while this person was standing in the aforementioned line).

Don’t even get me started on the sales associates it is my misfortune to encounter on a daily basis at the bank, stores, and restaurants. Borderline illiterate young people who can’t count money and are universally possessed of the misconception it is THEY who are doing YOU a favor by waiting on you.

At work my supervisor is a woman about half my age, who fancies herself as Alexis Carrington and gets her jollies by causing me physical pain. “Got a three hour task digging some crap you don’t even need out of dirty boxes in the back of the warehouse? Give it to the old arthritic in the nice suit! Ha ha ha, I am drunk with power!”

Most of these folks just qualify as shockingly inconsiderate. In situations where people perceive themselves as anonymous, it rapidly escalates into potential violence. I can think of no more immediately recognizable example than the way people treat one another on the road. Believe it or not, I once ENJOYED driving my car; I’d even tag along with friends just for the ride. Today it is a real-life video game where you must dodge a lot of criminally negligent individuals who are too busy talking on their cell phone to pay attention to the road. Look at the universal use of the obscene gesture and the epidemic failure to utilize one’s turn indicators. Just last week I was literally run into a ditch by some man in an environment-decimating Hummer, shooting the finger and shouting a string of obscenities at me. This might be as good a point as any to point out that I am a slightly built graying middle aged woman with an Ann Richards hairdo driving an inexpensive subcompact, so I can only imagine this big strong brute’s hobbies likely include stealing candy from babies and kicking puppies for amusement if he felt justified in trying to kill me for some perceived slight in traffic.

And I am nice to each and every one of them. I don't know if this makes matters better or worse, but I do know such people are everywhere and they must hate their country and everything else about their lives if they can behave as they do. The violent and ludicrous political discourse we hear is typical of a much larger problem.



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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
40. Beautiful post
Agree with every word :applause:

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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
42. It's the Constitution, stupid!
That's my mantra.

Bravo.
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
43. What an absolutely beautiful essay
Reading your wonderful post lifted my spirits a great deal. I am so very glad that you are part of DU, because it's obvious that you have a great deal to contribute to this site. Welcome, and thank you. I will be looking forward to more of your writing.
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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
44. Eliminationist rhetoric has been popular here at DU too
Especially in the wake of the 2004 election, "get rid of the South" was a common refrain at DU. The sentiment was all too common according to my biased sample: my siblings. My brother, who has lived in Boston for 30 years now, had the nerve to tell me that he wished we lived in different countries, i.e. that the South would be expelled somehow. My sister in Idaho, who has hardly traveled in the South at all, said emphatically "I HATE the South." (Ignoring of course that she inhabits the Hate State.) Admittedly, neither they nor anyone here actually got into details about HOW all these awful Southerners were to be "gotten rid of" but the tone of some remarks was truly alarming to many of us Southern DUers.

The more we said that the South is a lot less solidly Republican than the Great Plains and should not be written off, the more they attacked us and ignored the real strongholds of Bush support. It was a very nasty time. But thankfully the spasms of regional eliminationist rhetoric have been brief and infrequent of late. Perhaps after next month they will be a thing of the past thanks to Harold Ford, Jim Webb, and Dem winners of Congressional seats in the South.
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
45. Welcome to DU
As a former San Franciscan, your piece brought tears to my eyes.

Beautifully written, completely on the mark. I wish you'd submit it as an op-ed piece to every frickin' newspaper in the country - this needs to be spread far and wide.
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
46. wild conures
'tho I very much appreciate the imagery of Congressman Conyers going ape-shit wild on Telegraph Hill. That man works hard, and deserves some party time.

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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
47. Excellent column, thank you for posting Pamela Troy
and welcome to D.U.:hi:

Kicked and recommended

:kick:
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
48. A divided America
is what they've achieved. What an accomplishment.

Nice essay on how not to think like a hater.

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atomic-fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. We are all San Franciscans!
Edited on Wed Oct-18-06 01:38 PM by atomic-fly








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ForeignSpectator Donating Member (970 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. oh San Francisco...
visited San Francisco this march and dream to live there ever since. These pictures wake the craving yet again, San Fierro is great!
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thinks4herself Donating Member (21 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
51. Creeping hatred...
"Without the freedom to question, without hotbeds of liberalism, “intellectual elitism” and dissent like San Francisco, or New York, or Berkeley, or lesser-known enclaves like Chapel Hill North Carolina or Fayetteville Arkansas, what would be left of this country but the simple-minded repetition of a single viewpoint..."

This is one of the most frightening aspects of the Bush years. Bush speaks coded words to a selected group of people--the far right evangelical and does not represent most citizens; news channels, especially Fox, completely slant the information and play to the right-wing viewer who is blinded to truth and increasingly hostile; police harrass people with the "wrong" bumper sticker or taser demonstrators; and talking heads screech about "nuking" fellow citizens. The "right" reminds me of KKK racists in that they lack tolerance and are full of hatred--they are right, the chosen, and all others are inferior and going to hell. They remind me of the Nazi years in that they demand loyalty and nationalism above reason and common sense and again are fearful/hateful of those who are different and are proud to bomb a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11 because might makes right and God has chosen them. I truly believe they despise Muslim people. I sure am sad that tolerance, diversity, understanding, and reason are now considered to be almost crimes or unpatriotic in the USA. I also truly wonder if we will all be able to continue to blog and post and dissent... I feel a crackdown coming.

http://www.blackheartscrooksliars.com/
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