I'm a liberal and I smoke. Deal with it.

[truebrit71]

There are sooooooooooooooooo many more important things to be focused on right now, but for the record, I smoke, I like to smoke, and I will continue to smoke as long as I know that it will piss some sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, nanny-state do-gooders right off....Well that, and the whole addiction thing...but in a nutshell, I don't tell you what to do, don't tell me what to do. Deal?

Good, now then, as you were....I'll be right back, got to nip outside in the rain and cold for a quick ciggy, God-forbid any of you non-smokers get within ten yards of my lit fag.... :eyes:

;-)

[kiahzero]

1. That's fine

So long as you're not doing it in a public accommodation, I really don't care.

[Toots]

187. I like to pee in the public drinking water as it is exactly the same thing

:shrug:

[Cetacea]

194. So is driving. eom

[Drifter]

2. Snork .... you said fag ...

Amen brother.

Cheers
Drifter

[MADem]

3. I quit but I defend your right to enjoy it. Hell, I miss it! NT

[MannyGoldstein]

4. How Do You Feel About Universal Healthcare?

Should we pay for your slow and costly death of you develop lung cancer, emphysema, or similar?

Just curious.

[High Plains]

11. And what about your decline and death, Manny?

Or do you think non-smokers don't get sick and die?

[Jed Dilligan]

30. But it's not their fault...

Unless of course they ate food, drank liquor or water, chose to live in a city or agricultural area, failed to exercise, drove a car, participated in sports, etc.

[Clark2008]

35. LOL!

So many good retorts. So little time.


And I miss it, too. Damnit.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

15. That's a slippery slope.

Ever get drunk? Have a cheeseburger? Where do you draw the line? What about drug addicts? I thought we were FOR treatment.

[MannyGoldstein]

41. Good Point. But...

(I know that you won't believe this, but moderate drinking and cheeseburgers have actually demonstrated to be relatively good for health...)

In any case, you make a good point. However:

1. People who die prematurely will cost the system a great deal - but because they die prematurely, they'll pay less than their fair share.
2. Cigarette smoking is like greed - both are unhelpful realities - neither one should be bragged about.
3. I'm all for treatment. However, I don't think that was the OP's intention.

[RB TexLa]

50. People who die prematurely will cost the system

So if we had universal health care, and I choose to blow my brains out, that would be a concern of yours? That "he committed suicide and thusly got away with paying less than his fair share for our health care"? Do you think there should be some sort of estate/universal health care tax for those that commit suicide, so their "fair share" can be retrieved from them?

[MannyGoldstein]

53. Actually...

Actually, from a purely-financial standpoint, blowing your brains out would be a big win as long as you had good aim - you'd have paid in to the system but not collected. (However, even if you have good aim, I'd prefer if you did not play Dick Cheney's Quail-Hunting Game with your own head - or anyone elses - even if it would save me a few bucks.)

[RB TexLa]

60. But if I do it now at 37 I will not be paying as you put it my fair share

so how could you say that saves you after saying you have a concern about people dying early and not paying their fair share?

And if I were to choose to put a gun to my head, your preference on the matter would be meaningless.

[MannyGoldstein]

63. No

"People who die prematurely will cost the system a great deal - but because they die prematurely, they'll pay less than their fair share."

Note that that statement, taken in its entirety, states that the problem is that you'll cost a lot (because of your own choices) but will not pay a lot. It does not simply say that you won't pay as much as you could.

[RB TexLa]

68. So if I don't cost the system on my way out, then my share is no longer

a fair share and is not missed? Your "fair share" is something else. If I never used the system, whould that still be my fair share?

[YOY]

55. Wecome to the land of Moral Platitudes. population: you

n/t

[jberryhill]

74. Incorrect

People who die prematurely do not collect social security.

[TahitiNut]

116. I see. Live to 67. Retire. Then DIE, all you useless non-payers!!!

That's a really lovely philosophy. People are only "bad" if they die when they should be working to PAY, PAY, PAY!! Gotta get that mileage from those slaves!!

Excuse me... are there ANY liberals on DU?? :puke:

[MannyGoldstein]

123. Yes, That's Exactly What I Said

If you could help me to see where I said it, I'd be appreciative.

[seabeyond]

142. then, anyone that has genetic handicap, illness or disease cannot

reproduce because the likelihood of handing down a child that might cost more is evident and preventable. there we go..... lets dna everyone before they are allowed to reproduce

[SammyWinstonJack]

16. We have universal health care?

:wow: When did that happen?

[truebrit71]

17. I pay my own insurance premiums thank you very much...

Moot point.

And no, in a perfect world, with Universal Health Care the Ciggy companies would pay for ALL health issues relating to their products...

[JuniperLea]

25. Yes. Just like you'll pay for a drinker's liver eom

[YOY]

61. or a speeder's ER visit

n/t

[Spider Jerusalem]

26. You ARE aware...

that the revenues from tobacco taxation pay a significant percentage of the costs of nationalised healthcare in those countries that have it, right?

Not to mention that smokers have as much right to healthcare as an alcoholic does to treatment for cirrhosis, or a morbidly obese person with a tremendously unhealthy diet does to treatment for heart disease or diabetes. Are you going to advocate that THOSE people be left to die because it's their own damned fault, too?

[hedgehog]

71. Wasn't there a study that showed that smokers saved governments

money because by dying young they eliminated pension costs?

[walldude]

42. Well since Universal Healthcare is just a dream...

you aren't paying for smokers addictions. And that arguement could be used against you if UHC did exist. Should I have to pay for your emergency medical bills when you are in a car wreck, considering I don't drive a car? Don't tell me it's "different". Driving is just as dangerous and addicting as anything else. How much more can smokers do? We pay an insane amount of "sin tax" (over 100% in most states) we don't smoke inside, we keep our smoke away from you, what more do you want? You want all smokers to quit? Fine, as soon as I never have to see another beer, glass of wine or bottle of liquor, and never have to deal with another drunk asshole I'll quit smoking.(actually I'll probably quit before that but only because I need to not because someone else told me to)

[merwin]

52. Driving a car does not necessarily lead to medical problems.

However, smoking does.

It's also very childish to use the "Well, you can drink, so I should be able to smoke" defense. Just because drinking is legal doesn't mean that smoking should be legal. In fact, they are both very harmful to your health.

I'm sorry you feel the need to smoke, but don't blame your smoking on the fact that other people are allowed to drink.

[walldude]

80. "Driving a car does not necessarily lead to medical problems."

That may be true but it does not negate my point. It might cause medical problems, so again, why should I have to pay for someone elses health care because they choose to drive?

Oh and I certainly don't "blame" my smoking on anyone. I actually enjoy it. I just know it's bad for me and I need to quit.

"Just because drinking is legal doesn't mean that smoking should be legal."
But it is legal, along with coffee, trans fats, soda pop, pesticides, etc, etc, all things that very harmful to your health if not used in moderation. What are you going to do? Ban everything that's bad for you? There wouldn't be much left, at least not much that's fun.. ;)

[brook]

90. Engine emissions

lead to the same lung conditions that cigarette smoking does. Driving also does more environmental damage. "Just because drinking is legal doesn't mean that smoking should be legal" is amusing. Prohibition was a huge success. It gave us the Mafia and did absolutely nothing to deter drinking.

[RB TexLa]

45. And should we pay for those who don't exercise enough

or for those who ignore all health warnings and continue to eat high cholesterol diets.

[MannyGoldstein]

47. So Sorry

There's no real evidence that either exercise or low cholesterol diets increase life expectancy, despite all of the studies looking for these links - rather, neither of these seem to affect lifespan.

[RB TexLa]

51. Death is free

no one is charged for actually dying of cancer. It's the cost of treatment, people who have higher cholesterol usually have higher costs for treating high cholesterol.

[MannyGoldstein]

57. Uh

1. Do you have a reference on the lung cancer deaths rate being the same for non-smokers?
2. The amount of cholesterol that you eat doesn't really affect your blood cholesterol level - it's been studied out the wazoo, and their's basically no link. Taking cholesterol-lowering drugs reduces death from heart diseass about the same no matter what your cholesterol level is.

[RB TexLa]

64. Didn't say lung cancer I said it was skewed toward smokers

Wasn't the point I was really going with though. The overall rate of cancer is 1 in 2 for males, and 1 in 3 for females, you can go through the ACS site for the numbers.

Taking cholesterol-lowering drugs reduces death from heart disease about the same no matter what your cholesterol level is.

So everyone should be taking these? If someone has normal or low cholesterol levels and their doctor hasn't suggested they take these she wants them to have heart disease?

[MannyGoldstein]

69. Yes

"So everyone should be taking these?"

That's my take on it.

[Spider Jerusalem]

79. Since you brought up universal healthcare, here are some numbers for you:

1999 UK tobacco tax revenues: £10.7 billion.

Cost of NHS treatment of tobacco-related illnesses in the same year: £1.7 billion.

So there's a more than 500% surplus there, and on these grounds, your argument is invalid.

[TahitiNut]

121. No matter how many times the studies show smokers PAY more than they COST

... the tobacco Nazis will NEVER let the TRUTH get in the way of their LYING.

Self-righteousness is a license to lie. That's why the Bushoilinis do it so much. Too bad they're not the only ones.

[MannyGoldstein]

124. If The Numbers Are True

Then British smokers and puff away with my blessings.

[Spider Jerusalem]

126. But the high taxation of tobacco products everywhere...

means that the numbers are similar everywhere. And not only do smokers pay excise taxes on tobacco, they also pay income tax and social security taxes. So your argument as applied to the US is just as invalid as for the UK.

[TahitiNut]

113. So, you want people to die of YOUR favorite disease?

How enlightened! :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

119. Legalize and tax marijuana. Tax drugs, alcohol, nicotine. Hell, tax trans

fats and High Fructose Corn Syrup as well.

(I realize that alcohol and Cigs are already taxed)

Plow that $$$ back into the SHPC pot. The Savings garnered merely from kicking the insurance industry out of the equation make it more than worth it- we don't need, or want, to go down the road of trying to quantify and criminalize all the self-destructive behaviors consenting adults may engage in. What about risky sex? Bad eating?

I think it's perfectly legitimate to regulate smoking in enclosed, indoor public areas (God Bless California!) but beyond that it's a personal choice.

[Trillo]

140. Ah, yes, the eternal carrot,

always kept just out of reach. Medicare shrinking. Social Security shrinking.

There has been nothing but talk of Healthcare reform for years, yet, the expense for it keeps going up while Healthcare CEOs laugh all the way to their banks.

"UnitedHealth to Pay Departing CEO $5.1M

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) -- After being forced to step down over the company's compensation practices, UnitedHealth chief executive William McGuire will retire on $5.1 million a year, according to the calculations of a watchdog group."

Full Text...

Seems to me that 5.1 million every year could buy a LOT of healthcare coverage for poor folks. Mr. McGuire likely won't be worrying too much about his medical expenses, if he does, he can probably sell his gilded sink faucets.

[union_maid]

159. The death rate is 100%

Everyone dies. Of something. As a middle aged person, most of my peers' parents who are still alive are experiencing very costly medical conditions. Some are receiving hospice care. A number have some form of dementia. If you live long enough, you usually develop pricey medical problems. Some are in nursing homes. Some are simply getting frequent and costly treatments for ailments that are only going to get worse, not better. My husband's grandmother's heart was strong right up to her death at 97. Most of the last decade was spent in a nursing home, though, as she couldn't be kept safe at home. She was on Medicaid, of course. No one had enough money to keep her in the nursing home for that long. She hadn't paid anything into the system for over thirty years by the time she died. If she was a smoker, she might have died much sooner after her productive years were over. Would that have been better or worse?

[PVnRT]

190. Gee

I guess that would make me a bad person, being Type I diabetic and all. How DARE I cost the system so much money!

[Cygnusx2112]

5. There's no better reason than

and I will continue to smoke as long as I know that it will piss some sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, nanny-state do-gooders right off....


That right there. Light one for me!

[Dora]

6. Ah... a cold-weather smoke....

I still miss those. I always hated my habit in the summertime. Cigarettes always tasted best in winter.

[JuniperLea]

29. The heat wave this past summer made me quit

The winter will be rough. You're so right.

[Dora]

49. It took me 8-10 months to completely quit.

I quit in the summer too. After, as weather cooled, I would occasionally bum a smoke from a friend, but as weather started getting hot again, I found that the taste and smell were repellent, and I had to toss the smoke after only a couple of drags. I could also feel my sinuses react immediately to the smoke, which I had never noticed before. Oh, and the nicotine nausea wasn't too fun.

So, you quit this summer... How are things tasting? I had a taste-bud epiphany about 3-4 months after I quit.

[JuniperLea]

136. I've always had acute sense of taste and smell

Strange for a smoker, I know. I've smoked for about 30 years. I'm always the first one to smell something odd... and I have a great sense of taste when it comes to the nuances of beer and wine. I keep waiting for my sinuses to get markedly better; they've been horrid all of my life. I have allergies, but not to cig smoke I guess.

[Ron Green]

7. Addiction isn't a pretty thing...

but sometimes it's clever.

:-)

[Rhiannon12866]

8. I'm also a liberal and I smoke, too...

I have no issue with you...:smoke:

[TechBear_Seattle]

9. You have every right to poison yourself

I have every right to draw the line at your attempts to poison me and mine through your secondhand smoke, and to get upset when your attempts to poison others prohibits me from patronizing business establishments or attending events. You can go and deal with that. :hi:

[JuniperLea]

36. I haven't seen a business establishment or event

arena, stadium, et al, that allows smoking in the general areas for several years now. And I know WA is more stubborn in that area than CA... so what's your point?

[windbreeze]

86. Let me tell you a story...

Went to a concert in the Tacoma Dome one time....no smoking allowed, right??? right!! however....I couldn't figure out why some of us couldn't keep our eyes open....so I asked my oldest kid what the hell was going on, because the air looked blue to me, and I figured no smoking meant NO SMOKING, then he whispered it was pot smoke....so now...about that no smoking sign again, apparently at the Dome, it's only meant for real tobacco, and not wacky t'backy...
windbreeze

[JuniperLea]

138. WHOA! I haven't seen that action at a concert in years!

Occasionally at a small, metal, dive biker-type bar show, but not at an arena! Not since about the late 80's. Now in the 70's, it was contact highs for everyone!

:smoke:

[windbreeze]

158. OK....I will admit...it was

in the mid/late 80's...and it was a Prince concert...yeah...I know...I probably should have expected it...but the point was, I truly didn't...and it pissed me off, because I smoked at that time, but would never have considered lighting up inside that venue...but the air was definitely blue from the wacky stuff..I couldn't figure out why I wanted to go to sleep...LOL...hell, never having been around the stuff(I had to ask my oldest son what was going on)...I had no clue...talk about being out of your element...LOL...we laughed about the whole thing many times...
wb

[druidity33]

182. i remember 2 shows...

I saw him at madison Sq Garden in the mid 80's(?) for the Purple Rain tour and then again a few years later for the Sign o the Times tour. On both occasions he used A LOT of 'dry ice/stage' fog... he even had fog machines in the balconies dumping the stuff on top of us. At the end of the Purple Rain show thousands of little Satiny flowers were dropped from the ceiling... truly a concert experience. Of course, there was plenty of other smoke in the air... but i was only 14 or 15 at the time and with my older brother who was a scaredy cat back then... :)

[Lautremont]

What the fuck do I care?

[bjb]

10. smoke

Good for you. Can't wait to see how long it takes for the anti-smoking jihadists to chime in.

[Ezlivin]

12. I smoke when I'm on fire, too

And I like to toke. It's smoking, but with more fun in mind.

[JuniperLea]

40. And it doesn't hurt your lungs or your mind

according to recent studies...

[Ezlivin]

62. Nor according to any of my doctors

In fact they cheerfully tell me that my health is excellent.

And they know that I'm a daily toker.

[JuniperLea]

139. How long have you been enjoying God's herb?

My favorite story in that regard is the morning I was horribly nervous before a big test. I smoked an entire doob of fine, green, skunky bud... and as I took the last hit, I thought... WHAT THE HELL DID I DO?????

I aced the test. Seriously... aced it royal:) I was totally relaxed and analytical.

[Ezlivin]

180. A little over 10 years

Although I have to admit it has come in much more handy after the inside job of 9/11. As the old commercial used to say, "Take me away Calgon!"

[Warpy]

13. Go right ahead, just don't set fire to that thing around me

or I'll throw up on your shoes.

That's not a threat. It's a statement of reality.

[Bake]

14. I just stepped out for a smoke myself

And yes, I'm a LIBERAL. An addict, but a liberal. And it was good, too.

Bake

[AlCzervik]

19. me too, backyard smoker, don't want my house to stink

or my car.

[Irreverend IX]

193. Why don't you skip the middleman...

And donate your money directly to the Republican party? Because tobacco companies are some of the most hard-right organizations on Earth.

[Zhade]

18. Great - but we don't have to deal with the smoke itself.

You have no right to expose others to it against their will.

(Obviously, if it's not against their will, that's different.)

[bjb]

24. Fine..

Then you have no right to drive your cars around me either.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JuniperLea]

20. I'm four months into the non-smoking deal... and I support you

Hell, all that freaky, creepy, control crap nearly kept me a smoker. I hate conformity!

I'm not ruling out the possibility that I may one day smoke again. In fact, if this hand-basket gets close enough to Hell for me to feel the heat, I'm sparkin' up a fag and I don't give an airborne rodent's derriere who is in my space.

[Clark2008]

43. I only quit because I'm pregnant

and it pisses me off that my husband still gets to smoke (all-be-it outside now - not because I'm so worried about it amidst all this pollution around here, but so he doesn't tempt me).

[JuniperLea]

48. I quit three times with three pregnancies

Stayed off the nic for nearly three years each time... just long enough to give birth and breast feed... once I was over that, the temptation was far too great and I started again.

I quit three times for my kids, and three times for myself after the baby years. It becomes easier each time:)

[Beaverhausen]

21. I think you meant to write "I"m liberal and I'm selfish"

Is smoking outside such a hardship to you? Poor baby.

[jseankil]

22. Why this post then if you want people to focus on other things?

Go smoke, supporting giant coporate death machines isn't my thing but hey it's a free country and as long as your smoking isn't hijacking the air around non-smokers and it's not effecting anyone else(opps I guess everyones medical insurance is higher because you like to smoke, so scrath that)your free to try for cancer.

[waiting for hope]

23. Go for it.....

While I smoke, I abhor drinking which in my experience makes a lot of really nice people do stupid things - that being said, they are both legal and therefor above the crap.:smoke: Enjoy!

[NewInNewJ.]

27. I smoke too.

I enjoy it.

[Catherine Vincent]

28. No problem.

[AndyA]

31. Keep your second hand smoke to yourself. If you want to kill yourself,

feel free. But keep your deadly second hand smoke and your litter (butts) away from me. You don't have the right to subject others to your addiction, thus endangering their lives.

[Clark2008]

75. OK! As long as you don't speed around me!

Driving fast kills, too, you know. AND, it's illegal. Smoking is not.

[Susang]

82. Nice straw man!

Well done! :thumbsup:

Did you know murder kills too and it's also illegal? Any more nonsense comparisons I can make for you to help you out? :eyes:

[windbreeze]

92. and keep your cell phone pocketed when speeding or just plain driving

because in my book, that's about the biggest risk on the road right now, and to anyone's health that is EVER inside a car going anywhere...the things I see people do, while yakking on a cell phone and driving...scare the living hell out of me...
windbreeze

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

105. Isn't that argument working against you?

I can't drive 90 mph past a school. Why? It's a danger to others.

Same reason you can't smoke in schools.

[AndyA]

197. I never speed. In fact, it's one of my pet peeves.

Speeding, red light running, etc.

Speed kills. So does smoking.

[The_Warmth]

32. i wuv my nicotine!

woowoo im gonna go have a cancer stick =)

Look at it this way, in 30 years we'll have one of two things:

1) End of the World

2) Cure for Cancer

[mcking]

104. just hope you have 30 years

My three friends who died of lung cancer in their late 40s didn't have that long.

[AtomicKitten]

33. knock yourself out

but away from me, please

[garybeck]

34. No one wants to take away your right to smoke. Just do it in the right

place.

Don't smoke where kids or non-smokers have to deal with your habit. Do it in your home or outside. Smoke away. I don't care. Really. And I don't think others here do either.

Just don't do it where kids or other people have to inhale your smoke. That's all we demand and it is perfectly right for us to ask this.

then again your attitude indicates you don't care that much about other people's requests.

[Cha]

37. Too bad for you.

:)

[wuushew]

38. Supporting big tobacco hurts Dems and helps Republicans

How do you separate your love of nicotine from your desire to do the right thing politically?

[High Plains]

56. Just curious, do you make all your consumer decisions based on

the political affiliations of the makers of the products you consume? You don't eat any "Republican" foods or buy any "Republican" clothes, do you?

This kind of hyperpoliticization of the issue seems a bit over the top.

[wuushew]

66. Not all of them

http://www.buyblue.org/

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=A02

[L A Woman]

67. I don't know if that is hyperpoliticization...

Big Tobacco corporations are extreme right-wing corporations. There's not much middle ground here. And not only that, they are the most despicable and vile corporations that ever existed, when you look at their tactics. Just awful.

[TahitiNut]

125. That's a half truth. If people smoke Liggett brands, they support Dems.

The Vector Group contributes 84% to Democrats and only 12% to Republicans.
http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/contrib.asp?Ind=A02&cycle=2006


The Vector Group includes ...

Liggett Group Inc., based in Mebane, North Carolina, is a manufacturer of high-quality cigarette products. Founded in 1873 as Liggett & Myers, Liggett Group is the sixth largest manufacturer of cigarettes in the United States in terms of unit sales. Liggett is the maker of Pyramid, Jade, and Eve 120's branded discount products, and Liggett Select in the deep discount category. The company also produces a number of private-label and distributor-exclusive brands for a total of more than 240 brand styles.

Liggett Vector Brands Inc. was established in April 2002 when the sales and marketing functions, along with certain support functions, of Vector Group's Liggett and Vector Tobacco subsidiaries were combined into a new entity. This company coordinates and executes, among other things, the sales and marketing efforts for all of Vector Group's tobacco operations. With the combined resources of Liggett and Vector Tobacco, Liggett Vector Brands has enhanced distribution and marketing capabilities nationwide.

So, that's just another example of the deception and lying that's done in the name of being a tobacco jihadist.
:shrug:

Folks who bring up this shit probably have Kraft branded foods in their cupboards. Hypocrites.

[PVnRT]

191. I assume you never use petroleum products then

Since supporting Big Oil hurts Dems and helps Republicans.

By the way, plastics are derived from petroleum products as well.

[Withywindle]

39. I'm with ya.

Been watching the hysteria on the threads with great amusement but not feeling much need to contribute. I just like watching people thrash over this issue when I need a break from stressing over the really important stuff.

That's right, Pink Lung Police. I'm blowing smoke in your face through the Internets right now. (It's a series of tubes, you know.)

[librechik]

44. fer god's sake, switch to pot!

if you were a real liberal, you would!

Otherwise, your "lit fags" will keep you a slave to the corporate machine.

Deal with it yourself!

[Scout]

46. seems pretty childish to me....

I will continue to smoke as long as I know that it will piss some sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, nanny-state do-gooders right off

wah, they don't want me to smoke, but i wanna, i wanna, i wanna! i'll show them!! :stamping foot smiley:

[Nye Bevan]

54. Many smokers feel better saying something like that

than admitting that they are victim to an extremely powerful addiction that they have not been able to overcome.

[YOY]

59. When someone does a pissy little fake cough when you are standing

10 feet away and not bothering anyone you tend to get a little defensive.

No I don't particularly like smoking and would like to quit, but there is some snippy little shit that is just annoying.

[Susang]

83. How do you know it's fake?

Seriously, how do you know? Do you go over to them and ask them if they have asthma?

[YOY]

155. I can tell a fake little cough from a real asthmatic rasp

I assure you there is a clear difference. Anyone with above an IQ of 60 can tell that. Just like they can tell a snarky comment.

[Susang]

168. Take it from an asthmatic

No, you can't. On both counts.

You never answered my question. Have you ever asked any of these "fake" coughers? I was asking in all seriousness. Have you ever tried to actually talk to one of them or do you just assume they're faking without ever actually knowing?

[YOY]

186. When someone gives you the evil eye as you are smoking on the street

and does a prissy little fake cough (not a real cough)...and you KNOW what I mean by fake cough...you heard them in gradeschool from other kids trying to draw attention to something or faking a cold.

No, I have never asked them if they are asmatic. Forgive me if that obvious conclusion did not jump to my mind... :eyes:

Tell you what, next time I won't say something along the 'Stop being obnoxious.' (which has a miracle cure on their coughing) and will ask them 'Are you asmatic?' Of course I do not anticipate a 'yes.'

So take it from a person who can tell a fake cough, get off of your high horse. I don't smoke around asmatics...if I saw an inhaler I'd put the damn thing out.

[LeftishBrit]

58. You have every right to smoke

just so long as you accept my request not to do so in my face in an enclosed space.

If you don't, then you're basically dicating to me what I can do and where I can go, as I become ill and lose my voice if I am in an enclosed place with cigarette smoke for any length of time. If you treat my genuine allergies as being 'sanctimonious and holier-than-thou', then, sorry, but you are the one who being sanctimonious and holier-than-thou; just like a harsh schoolteacher who refuses to accept any health excuse for being 'off games' or someone who treats all food allergies and restrictions as 'all faddiness'. (And I've had too much experience of both of the latter examples to be very tolerant of those who are *in*tolerant of other people's physical difficulties.)

I don't believe in blanket bans on smoking, except in places like railway stations where it's a true fire risk. I think that restaurants, pubs, etc. should ideally have smoking and non-smoking areas. But I do like people to respect my allergies and health needs - and those of many other people.

In fact, most smokers whom I know in real life are very considerate, and the same is probably true IRL of most of you on the board. But some of the arguments being used are basically implying that my health needs are not just unimportant, but are somehow made-up and being used as an excuse to impose my fanatical views on other people.

I think people have a right to smoke; and similarly those who don't cope well with smoke have a right to expect that others should not smoke in their faces in enclosed spaces. Just as people's right to walk freely doesn't give them the right to push into other people or tread on their feet, rather than move aside slightly to avoid such collisions.

[L A Woman]

65. talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face...

Are you sure you want to keep killing yourself JUST to piss off the "holier-than-thous?" Is it worth your life?

As a liberal, aren't you MAD enough to quit yet? Haven't you seen enough evidence that you were tricked into starting in the first place by greedy corporate thugs who spend billions of dollars JUST finding new ways to hook young people for life (until they die an ugly, early death!)?

I smoked for 18 years. It is hard to quit. But it is possible. And dammit, you need to do it. Forget the rest of us. We don't matter.

[glitch]

73. That plus the tobacco companies' support for fascists is what got me to

finally quit. That plus I couldn't stand how everything about me smelled. My hair, my house, my car, my clothes.
But I don't really care if smokers continue to smoke, I just avoid them. They'll quit when they are ready. Or not. Convincing them to be ready before they are is a fool's game, ask my mother ;)

[Faygo Kid]

70. I'm a liberal, too, and quit after 37 years of smoking!

That was a year and a half ago, and it only took about 70 attempts, and I am damned glad, and you don't piss me off. Smoke away, and you will know if and when you are ready to quit, and what the signs are - like when you post defensively about it on DU.

[glitch]

91. Yay! Congratulations! It's great isn't it? I now hike up mountain trails.

I could never do that when I was still smoking. Sure, I am slower than most, but each year I get faster and less winded.
It is amazingly worth it.

[fasttense]

72. I smoke but I sure as hell wish I could quit

I quit for two years and went back to smoking. Every single day of those two years was hell. Sigh..... I have to quit again but my new insurance doesn't cover smoking cessation classes/pills/patches. You would think health insurance would pay for smoking cessation cause it is cheaper than paying for lung cancer. Enjoy your cigarettes but it is an addiction, one I wish I had never ever started.

[glitch]

84. Here's how I did it, hope it helps.

I was the biggest baby on the planet about it: nicotine patches for two years (my doc said take as long as you want, it's better than smoking), chocolate chips, nicotine gum and that cinnamon gum too. And even an occasional cigarette. Gained twenty lbs.
What finally clicked was I realized the nicotine fit goes away whether you smoke or not. And you get almost the same feeling of relief when it passes as if you'd had a smoke. Gradually they come farther between. And then I lost 10 of the 20 lbs I'd gained.

I think because it took me so long to quit I really got over the habit of smoking, not just the addiction, so I haven't slipped back. It's been 6 years nicotine free. Knock wood ;)

Good luck! If I can do it, so can you. Make your own quit plan and if you slip - get back on it the next day, forgive yourself, no harm no foul.

Edit: the patches are worth the present cost when you consider all the present and future years of cigarette purchases.

[Pacifist Patriot]

76. For the record...

Am I sanctimonious because I'm concerned about your health?

I'll never tell a smoker to his or her face what I think of the habit, but whenever I see someone light up my heart breaks for their future physical pain. I don't want anyone to go through what my dad and grandfather did. No one deserves that agony.

Sorry if that's holier-than-thou.

[October]

77. There are far more sanctimonious smokers

clogging up the boards...and their lungs...yawn

[Demeter]

78. Social Security DEPENDS on Suicides Like You!

or my mother, dead at the age of 63, an aunt at roughly the same age, and her husband, and many, many more. Never collected much, but the hospital bills!

[bigwillq]

81. I'm a liberal smoker too.

I try and be as courteous as I possibly can.
When I am at work, I go outside and far away from people as possible. Most others just stand right near the door where other workers (and many non-smokers) must exit and enter through.
I think that is rude so I try and go as far away as possible.

I go outside to smoke when I am home and when I stay up at my man's house.

I know smoke bothers some people and we all know about second-hand smoke so I try my best not to inflict my bad habit on people.

With that being said, if I am walking down the street I tend to smoke even if people are around.
It's my right in a way.
Smoking is still not illegal and until it is, I will smoke when and where I want to.

[Susang]

88. I have a lot of smoker friends who are just like you

We non-smokers greatly appreciate how thoughtful you are. :thumbsup:

You know, I didn't plan on getting asthma (most asthmatics don't), I developed it after working in smoke-filled bars for 15 years. I don't hate smokers and I don't even ask my smoker friends not to smoke around me. In return, they try not to blow their smoke at me and cause me to gasp for breath. When I hear smokers like the OP saying they don't care if their actions hurt me or others like me, I don't find that liberal at all, no matter what the OP says he is.

[bigwillq]

98. I know many in your situation.

Bartenders, waiters, etc...who didn't smoke but worked in those places b/c they needed to make a living.
In the process, they developed symptoms as if they smoked their whole lives.

In CT, there is a smoking ban in bars, clubs, etc..

At first I hated the law. But now I love it.
You don't realize how much you smell or how much you can't breathe from staying in a smoke-filled bar for even a few hours.

It gets cold here and all but I never mind going outside to have a smoke when I am out.

:hi:

[Susang]

100. My husband smoked until a year ago

He's still amazed at how he smells after we go out to a bar. He always asks me "Did you smell like this every time you came home from work?". He could never smell the smoke on my clothes or in my hair until he quit. Then his sense of smell came back.

If only they made a smokeless cigarette, we all could be happy. :D

[bigwillq]

107. Smokeless

tobacco less but with the same effects as a cigarette. That would be amazing.

Too bad it's never going to happen.

Some others here say that every time one lights up that repukes get richer, so that's another reason to quit.

That's likely true since big business owns the tobacco business but I don't think I am ready to quit at this moment.

I want to and know I need to eventually.

One day I will be ready to quit and it's not going to be because of non-smokers or repukes. It's going to be because I am ready and willing to make the effort to quit.

[Susang]

111. That's what happened to my husband

He got sick with a horrible chest cold, couldn't smoke without coughing horribly and decided he'd had enough. Once he got better, he just never went back to smoking. Now that was a tough couple of months. ;-)

[calico1]

115. You are considerate and I think most people

don't have a problem with smokers like you. Both sides need to be more courteous. I don't do fake coughs (which I have seen people do) when people are smoking outside.

[bigwillq]

131. I've seen the fake coughs too.

:eyes:

Or people with tans (fake or otherwise) complain.

I know, that going tanning doesn't hurt other people but they are doing just as much harm to their bodies as smokers are.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

87. Alright.

And I'm a liberal and I'll keep voting to get that shit out of restaurants, bars, and parks.

And it's got nothing to do with pissing off some sanctimonious, holier-than-thou, screw-everybody-else, stinking smokers.

[karlrschneider]

89. A lot of DUers love SOME freedoms.

...

[NaturalHigh]

93. I look for smoking to become illegal within the next decade...

and it will be some "good liberals" leading the charge to ban it.

[Hepburn]

94. I am also a smoker...

...and I wish to hell I was not. I quit for a long time and, damn it, I started again after years of not smoking. I smoke because I am addicted to it and not because I especially like it. It is an expensive habit ~~ but most of all, it is VERY bad for my health.

:dunce: <-------- and, yes, I am completely one of these for smoking.

[zulchzulu]

95. Smoke outside all you want...

I've lived in places that turned bars/restaurants etc. into no-smoking zones. Business always improved and you didn't feel like you fell through a chimney when the time spent there was over...

Smoke in your home, your car or outside all you want. As for my smoking habits, every six months or so, I light up a doobie...

[Hippo_Tron]

96. And the employees of restaurants have a right to a safe workplace

I have no problem with smoking and frankly I don't think that smoking in restaurants should be banned because of the health of the restaurant customers. Customers can go elsewhere if they don't like second hand smoke. However, smoking should be banned in all restaurants for the same reason that when you want to smoke at work, you have to step outside. It's a safety hazard to the employees of the restaurant.

I have no problem with your smoking, but as a liberal I'm very much in favor of using the law to enfroce workplace safety standards just like I am in favor of using laws to enforce a minimum wage, child labor laws, an 8 hour work week, and other regulations that protect workers.

[Dragonbreathp9d]

97. I'd never give up my Hookah and I'm not even addicted!

I just like it!

[rudy23]

99. Anti-smoking Nazis see smokers as selfish pigs

They think people smoke because they just love to cloud up THEIR precious lungs.

They don't understand that when a smoker goes a few hours without a smoke, they feel like they're going to DIE.

Anti-smokers can't empathize with this, because they're too busy admiring the view from their high horse to think something couldn't be all about THEM.

[L A Woman]

114. what a bizarre post...

You should not throw around the word Nazi - it is an affront to those who really suffered under the Nazis.

And do you really think it's the NON-smokers who think it's "all about them?"

Once again, another example of an entire generation of Americans who think their immediate satisfaction is more important than anything else in the world.

[rudy23]

127. See, it's not about satisfaction it's about satisfying a serious addiction

You treat it as if every time a smoker smokes, it's like they're opening a bag of Doritos or something.

Yes, it all leads back to one bad choice--the first cigarette. Okay, that's the smoker's fault.

Still, you've proven my point--you have no understanding of addiction if you think smoking is about satisfaction.

As for the Nazi thing, please. I formally apologize, but I hope you're their on every thread that compares * and the Repukes to Nazi's too, otherwise I'd think you were using that to get on some sort of moral high horse.

[Susang]

169. Did you read all the posts in this thread?

There are plenty of non-smokers who understand and sympathize with nicotine addiction. Many of the non-smokers who posted here were once smokers. Getting all defensive and insulting towards non-smokers doesn't do anything to foster understanding and is exactly the same fault you are accusing them of.

[rudy23]

201. I'm specifically talking about those who don't understand

That's what I meant by anti smoking Nazis or whatever I said. Sorry for playing loose with the term, I understand why it upset people. I should have called them "fascists". : )

BTW, I quit three years ago. I just still get sick of the judgement from people who have no understanding of smoking. That's all.

[Warren DeMontague]

122. What a crock. It's the reverse. Smokers think any attempt to ask them

to, say, step outside before lighting up, is due to some prissy need to control other people on the part of non-smokers. The fact that that shit smells like dog ass and sticks to everything it touches, and is bad for the people in the vicinity, never seems to cross their mind.

You know what? There were times I used to feel like I would DIE if I didn't have a drink. That's cuz I had a problem with alcohol. But that wasn't the fault of the people who didn't want me cracking open a beer, say, on a ride at Disneyland. The solution to that particular problem was for me to quit drinking, and far be it for me to preach, but it was the best move I ever made.

[rudy23]

128. Read some of the posts that complain about outside smoking

If you can't go inside, or outside, where do you go?

If smokers complain about having to go outside, then I'm right there with you.

And, no, alcoholism isn't as gripping of an addiction as cigarettes. Neither is heroin.

[Warren DeMontague]

129. Pffft. Double Pfffft. Do your research, Jack. People DIE from the DTs.

Not "feel like they're going to die", they can literally DIE.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Delerium+tremens

Full blown physical addiction to alcohol is as nasty a bastard as you're likely to see. Hope you never do, actually.

That said, I'm fully aware that nicotine is a bitch of an addiction to kick. And I don't have any problem with people smoking outside or in their own homes, their cars, etc. Their body, their choice.

As for this thread, I'm not responsible for anyone's opinion but my own. Peace.

[rudy23]

137. Yes, but do you get the DT's by going an hour without a drink?

Cigarettes are cruel in that you start "withdrawing" from them about 30 minutes after your last one.

My point isn't to downplay the withdrawals from any other drug, it's to make clear that a smoker isn't just saying "Ahhh, a delicious cigarette! I'm going to enjoy this, no matter who I offend."

More like "Thank god I could get outside and have this cigarette before I turned into the Incredible Hulk".

[Warren DeMontague]

160. There are people for whom the answer to that question is yes,

people with advanced alcoholism who can't go an hour without a drink. It's ugly.

And I have no illusions about the perniciousness of nicotine addiction. My dad died of lung cancer. I'm very glad I never became a real cigarette smoker, because I know it would have been a MAJOR pain in the ass addiction for me to kick.

Here's a question, though, that I honestly always wondered about heavy smokers- and this is not to doubt your 30 min. figure at all, because I know it's true.. if you need a smoke every 30 minutes or hour, what do you do about sleep?

[L A Woman]

161. oh please

like i said before, i smoked for 18 years. i fully understand the feeling of a "nic fit," as i used to call it. but never did i ever defend the behavior. i always felt stupid for doing it. i always felt like i smelled bad, which of course i did. i NEVER blamed non-smokers for not wanting me to do it around them.

perhaps that is why i successfully quit. first you have to identify that what you are doing is BAD.

having said that, i wish you the best. trust me, it is possible to quit. it won't be easy at first but i highly recommend it. breathing is a wonderful thing. :-)

[CarbonDate]

172. Yes....

...secondly, you have to identify that what you're doing is COMPLETELY UNDER YOUR CONTROL. I tried to quit many, many times; I never did so successfully until I accepted accountability for my actions and quit making EXCUSES.

I empathize with people trying to quit; it's tough, I've been there myself. It was about the most difficult thing I've ever been through, and one thing that keeps me quit is that I don't know if I could do it again. It's the people making EXCUSES or SWEET LEMON RATIONALIZATIONS that piss me off, because they remind me of myself before I quit.

[rudy23]

200. I quit , too

I just want people to acknowledge that until people have that moment of clarity that causes them to turn their life around....nic fits are very, very, very, very, very unpleasant, and smoking is a way to relieve fits, rather than cause pleasure.

The way some people were talking on here, they endow the smoker with the quality of smoking for the sake of gluttony. As if smokers make the decision to have each cigarette, just because they want to enjoy a cigarette at that very moment. Sometimes that is the case, I'm just trying to explain the feeling of withdrawal to people who don't seem to understand the concept.

[XemaSab]

199. Don't you think that's completely pathetic?

Who else defends the "right" to be an addict?

[Alameda]

101. smoking scapegoats?

I think the whole smoke thing is more about control than anyone's health. If they really cared, why not make healthy cigarettes? I was once in a car with a woman with a faulty muffler. She was ranting about my smoking, but didn't think about her muffler....???? There are plenty of pollutants around that are much worse, and less discussed. It's gotten to be PC to rant on a smoker. Smokers are the new scapegoat.

If one smokes a none tobacco cigarette, it's still an issue. So....what is it really about? It's a diversionary tactic. "Look....there's a smoker!"

As for costs, smokers pay much more in taxes. Most of the cost for a pack of cigarettes is tax. I venture to say if everyone stopped smoking, we would have a real shortage of tax dollars.

[CatWoman]

102. I smoke, too

:hi:

[truebrit71]

106. That's all I needed to know!!!

:loveya:

[CatWoman]

108. *smooch*

:smoke:

[SoCalDem]

109. Me, three

:hi:

[CatWoman]

110. LOL

The cats HATE it.

if one of them won't get out of my lap, I just light up a smoke, and watch her run :D

[SoCalDem]

117. All I have to do is SHOW Sara a lighter, and she leaves me alone

:)

[TroglodyteScholar]

103. Go ahead and smoke.

Just don't consider me sanctimonious simply because I quit. I'm very conscious of the way I behave around smokers now, because they're so damn quick to snap on a former smoker. Even though I make a point not to be "sanctimonious," it's really pathetic how defensive and/or bitter smokers can get. If cigarettes are what give your life meaning, by all means DIE already.

[calico1]

112. You smoke to piss people off?

Okay....


:eyes:

[Matariki]

118. That's the attitude!

as i blow smoke in your face or obliviously stick my cigarette in your eye while i'm dancing at a club - you sanctimonious, do-gooder, you.

that's what makes smokers so damn sexy.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. As long as I or my family don't have to breathe your smoke in an indoor

public area, like a restaurant, I could give a shit what you do.

Enjoy.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Puglover]

133. Congrats Lindacooks!

Your post just won a blue ribbon for the most low rent classless post I've seen at DU! And I've seen alot! AND I'm a non-smoker.

:puke:

[Lindacooks]

141. Right back atcha.

How nice to say something like that when you have NO IDEA of my history.

My husband had cancer when he was 25 years old. I fought getting non-smoking areas in his place of work for YEARS AND YEARS. I watched others puff away while remaining healthy, and he struggled to breathe.

Now you're the winner of the 'most low rent classless post I've seen at DU'.

And the scorn and lack of concern of smokers who spew their vile shit while making fun of those who are just trying to breathe clean air sickens and infuriates me. There's no lower form of life than that.

Buh-bye. Glad I don't know you.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

147. You said you wished the poster got cancer or emphysema.

I'd say that's pretty damn classless, regardless of your personal history dealing with the issue.

[Lindacooks]

152. Same to you.

PPBT

[Starbucks Anarchist]

163. Yeah...

:eyes:

[spoony]

176. Smokers do more than *wish* others harm

So while I didn't see the deleted post, let's not pretend that someone's words are worse than all the real harm done by smoking.

[cwydro]

188. YIKES

I would say that is pretty classless ESPECIALLY given that history...

[Puglover]

179. Actually Lindacooks

I don't give a flying frack what your "history" is. This is a message board. The only "history" you have here are your posts. And if your norm is wishing someone to contract a serious disease "and die" I stand with my original reply to yours. Since it was deleted apparently I'm not too far off base.

[Warren DeMontague]

132. Cool! How about a PETA thread? Porn? Tie-dye v. Suits at antiwar protests?

Things have been FAR too pleasant around here, lately. :hippie:

[babsbunny]

134. I wish I could still smoke! The people at work who smoke have so much fun!

:cry:

[OzarkDem]

135. Cashing in on Tobacco Settlement Funds

These campaigns are being run by American Cancer Society and other "consultants" who are cashing in on multi-million dollar ad campaigns to get people to stop smoking.

Believe me, the people behind these campaigns could care less if you smoke or not, the only thing they care about is the millions they get for running these campaigns.

American Cancer Society has no credibility anymore, they're cancer funding whores who care nothing about substantive issues like access to health care for cancer patients. Cancer patients are only disposable tools to use to generate sympathy for fundraising. Geez, they raise millions in our state, yet have no qualms about coming to our tiny non-profit asking us to give them money for their programs.

Follow the money is all they know. Smoking ban ballot initiatives are just the latest cash cow for them to milk.

[Gato Moteado]

143. i certainly wouldn't tell you not to smoke...

...if you want to smoke then smoke. but do it in your own house, car, or outside somewhere away from me. i don't want to have to breathe or smell that garbage. and it is garbage. and if i cough because i breathe in your stinking, filthy garbage it's not a fake cough. the noxious fumes of cigarettes make me sneeze, cough and give me a sore throat. and i don't have to be around it for extended periods for that to happen...just a few whiffs of that disgusting garbage will do it to me.

so smoke if you want, but keep it away from my nose and lungs because my right to breathe clean air supercedes your right to make me sick.

[bleedingheart]

144. Do you toss them out your car window or on the road?

that is a big pet peeve with me....

[truebrit71]

145. Nope. That's what the ingenious invention called the 'ashtray' is for...

.. ;-)

[bleedingheart]

146. then I don't have a problem with you...I won't stand next to you

when you smoke cuz I have asthma and I have to use too many inhalers already...so I don't need to aggravate my condition...but you can smoke all you want...

[Broadslidin]

148. Be Sure To Inform Your Insurance Reps., Your a Freebasing Drug Addict

:yoiks:

[LostinVA]

149. Y'all totally took the bait n/t

[troubleinwinter]

154. !!!! !!! Second time today alone.

:toast:

[LostinVA]

183. Crazy on GD yesterday!

[buddysmellgood]

150. Have fun. Oh, did you see the latest study? One in four smokers will get

lung cancer. Enjoy.

[asthmaticeog]

151. Two out of three prigs, scolds and dullards will die lonely.

:hi:

[Susang]

170. I will not!

I fully intend to die before my husband. }(

[NoBushSpokenHere]

153. The point of the original post is

there are far too many important things to be focused on right now than to be side tracked with smoking issues!

Now, my 2 cents on the topic!

First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.

by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945


If we are going to pass laws to dictate what people and business owners can and cannot do in regard to their own desire to permit or ban smoking in their restaurants, bars and businesses, what is next? I am allergic to common chemicals and perfumes but I do not expect a grocery store to not sell detergents nor do I expect those who wear perfumes to stop. I may not agree with hunting of wild animals for sport, but I do not try to stop those that do. I may not agree with bungie jumping, but I do not try to stop others from doing so. I may not agree with those who believe motorcycles to be safe transportation, but I do not attempt to stop them from riding nor do I try to stop any business from selling them. I may not agree with recreational drug use, but I do not try to stop those who do. I may not agree with those who contaminate the air with barbecue grills, but I do not try to stop those who do. I may not agree with those who eat transfats, but I do not try to stop those who do.

It is my understanding there is a bill or law or motion of law to stop restaurants in NY from using certain types of fat in their cooking processes. It is my understanding that a friend of mine who owns a business may end up shutting down if anti-smoking ordinances are passed in the city he owns a business in. It is his inherent right to decide whether to permit smoking within the walls that he owns. It is a non-smokers right to avoid coming in the door. Where do we get off as a nation to tell him that he cannot permit smoking inside the real estate that he owns? Where do we get off as a nation to tell a restaurant they can only cook with certain oils even if they were to fully disclose the dangers of the fat? When and where will it stop? My child told me that he would rather I be an alcoholic or drug user than a smoker. What does that say for our public education system?

Our time is better spent trying to create a better environment by passing anti-pollution laws and going after the corporations that are raping this planet than to beat a drum because your clothes might stink when you walk nearby someone with a cigarette. What about the depleted uranium? There are far greater concerns we should be dealing with rather than dictating to people when and where they can enjoy their habit.

In addition, I have yet to see the first study done regarding smoking that was unbiased. Someday when we are all forced to quit, they may find out that our cigarettes were not the cause of the diseases they have been blamed on. I have another friend who was diagnosed with lung cancer. She told me the Doctor did not question any of her past work history. His only question was how many years did you smoke? Turns out she had worked in a factory that produced asbestos fibers. Where were the people when she tried to get the company to clean up their act? Where were you when others died because they could not afford health care? Where were the people when it became known how dangerous it was to go into a deep mine to mine coal? Where were the people when all the toxins were released into the Gulf of Mexico after Katrina hit? How many of you have thought about what those chemicals have done to our environment? Were you beating your drum about the smokers?

Lets go after the true contaminators of our society, the large greedy corporations and lay off the the growing movement to dictate to others regarding their freedoms. There are far too many important issues today to fall into the trap of dictation by peers.

And don't forget...

first they came for the Communists

[CarbonDate]

174. You're right.

Who are we to tell business owners that they can't mix formaldehyde in with the coffee just to give it a little extra kick? Some people like formaldehyde. Smokers, for instance. They inhale it all the time.

Or how about pouring a little bit of carbon monoxide into the restaurant through the ventilation system? What's the difference between that and a smokey restaurant?

We don't let people masturbate in public, but that's much less of a health hazard than smoking. And I don't see chronic masturbaters coming out of the woodwork and complaining that they should be allowed to masturbate whenever they want, where ever they want, and comparing people who oppose public masturbation to Nazis.

Smokers have a bigger persecution complex than Christians. I know, I was once both. I gave up my two worst addictions, religion and nicotine, in the same year.

[LostinVA]

184. OOOH -- nice post!

I mean that sincerely.

And -- I used to be both, too.

[upi402]

156. no problem at all here OP

:toast:

[leesa]

157. Seems to me you are the one being all holier=than-thou...

Either that or you're just an A**hole.

[Mr_Spock]

162. lol

I used to smoke too - good for you :D

[mmonk]

164. Sorry, I can't deal with it.

Just kidding, I smoke too.

[mtnsnake]

165. Smoke, joke, & drink coke with the old folk

yeah

[roguevalley]

166. I don't care if you smoke. Just don't exhale in my face. If you want to

die like that, you have that choice. Having watched a father (smoking related cancers and strokes) two aunts, three uncles, a grandfather, two cousins and their kids die of lung cancer, I can only say that I loathe smoking as someone who has seen its slimy trail only can.

[OnionPatch]

167. I think this smoker-non-smoker issue

has nothing to do with left or right or liberal or not. Smoking is a bad habit, like over-eating and by the same token, those who hate smoking come in all political colors.

I don't smoke anymore, but have a drag for me while you're out there. :)

[CarbonDate]

171. Congratulations.

I used to smoke a pack a day. I quit last year. And secretly, you're jealous of me.

But yeah, enjoy your cigarettes and your frequent smoking-related illnesses, the constant scum on your teeth, the constant hacking up a lung, the bad breath, smelling like ass (quit for a week and you'll realize how bad you smell when other smokers approach you), the dulled senses, your foul moods when you can't quite scrape together enough cash for a pack of cigarettes, and the obliviousness that you can enjoy all the things you currently enjoy more without cigarettes. I still enjoy coffee, I still go to bars, and I still enjoy a drink now and then. Smoking doesn't enhance those experiences; it co-opts them.

But yeah, I could give a shit whether or not you smoke. I don't, and I'm better off for it. And as an ex-smoker, I recognize your screed for what it is: a sweet lemon rationalization. You wish you could quit, but can't, so you put up a tough front saying that you *like* smoking, damn it!

You don't. You hate it. Quit lying to yourself. Just quit. You'll be better off, I promise.

[Raine]

173. Go ahead just keep your butt

out of my face.:P

[FujiZ1]

175. Yer dum

I don't give a shit if you smoke within an inch of me, but you're giving money to conservatives and killing yourself at the same time.

When I used to smoke I defended it like you do, when you quit you'll realize it was pretty stupid.
It's the poor man's reward. Rich people go out and buy clothes, poor people go out and smoke.

[Evoman]

177. I HATE SMOKERS AND I WISH THEY WOULD ALL

just kidding, lol.

No really, I am not a smoker, but I sympathize. Although I really don't like the smoke, sometimes we have to put up with things we don't like in order to call ourselves a free society. After all, I don't drive a car, but I still have to put up with the fumes from people who "really need their SUVs or cars".

I will not judge you by your bad habits, nor question your liberalism. I still think your a good person. You are a human being like anybody else, and you should be able to put whatever you like in your body. And if you ever want to quit (not saying you should), I am sure there are plenty of DUers who have gone through it and can help you out. I myself am trying to wean myself off of my addiction for hardcore, barely legal porn, but unfortunately, there is nobody on DU who wants to help ME with my addiction LOL.

Evoman

[LWolf]

178. I don't understand.

If there are sooo many more important things to be focused on, why start a thread on it?

Smoke or not; your choice. I have no interest in making your choices, just as you have no interest in allowing your choice to pollute the air I breathe.

Right?

I appreciate your stepping outside.

[Buzz Clik]

181. Hells bells, I can deal with it. Can you? Your family?

[FlaGranny]

185. Hahaha. I don't have to deal with it.

But, YOU will - someday.

[cwydro]

189. I don't smoke

never have, and couldn't care less about other people's habits as long as they don't bother me...

[youthere]

192. I'm probably going to get piled on here but here goes...

I don't smoke. Never have...well except once in the seventh grade and it made me barf.
My dad smoked-cigars and cigarettes. I remember riding in the car, the windows rolled up because god-forbid he would get a "draft" on his neck, and he'd be there puffing away on that slimey old stogie or puffing away on his Lucky Strikes. We'd choke and cough in the backseat but it never made a difference to him.
He died (heart attack) when I was still little. Mom remarried and my stepdad was a smoker too-cigarettes (and a lot of them)-since he was 14. Four packs a day in fact. He passed away two years ago from cancer-NON smoking related by the way. You know, when my stepdad (incredible man that I loved dearly) was alive I would bitch and complain about the smoke.He would patiently smile and continue smoking (and rightly so, I was in HIS house). I asked him one time why he never respected the fact that I chose not to smoke, and he responded simply "Because you've never respected the fact that I chose to smoke". I hated that every time I hugged him he smelled like a dirty ashtray. I hated that whenever I went to visit him and my mom (also a smoker) that I came home smelling of it-my skin my hair-even my purse for crying out loud! So I just made it a point to book a hotel room when I went to visit. When they came and visited at my house they were always respectful of the fact we don't smoke and would step outside to light up-in fact, my stepdad would wander around the house, pulling weeds and picking up debris while he puffed away. It was great-and not once did I ever find a cigartte butt in my yard. Before he died he was in a hospice center. I would push him in his wheelchair outside and we'd sit by this really lovely flowerbed and he'd smoke and we'd talk and laugh and sometimes cry. I didn't mind the smoke so much then.
My mom and I were going through some things of his about a year ago. There was this terrific chambray shirt he wore all the time. Mom let me have it. When I got home I realized that it smelled of cigarettes. I won't wash it..it reminds me of him. I miss him a lot.

I really hate walking into a building when I have to pass through a crowd of smokers hovering by the entrance. So I hold my breath and dash through, or I use another entrance if it's available.
I hate sitting in a restaraunt next to the smoking area, so I ask to be moved, or I leave. Usually my husband and I choose non-smoking restaraunts.
If I'm standing outside and someone is smoking nearby and it's bothering me, I move.
I remember what it was like being held captive in that car with my father, and I can honestly say that is the ONLY time I have ever had smoke "forced" upon me. If I'm in a public place, I have the choice to leave. If I'm outdoors I can move. If I'm in a car I can roll down the windows, or make sure I do the driving, and I've never had a smoker try to light up in my house. Never.
It's pretty simple really.
I believe that smokers are pretty considerate people, or at least can be when treated with a little respect. Yes we have the "right" NOT to breathe smoke but there are an awful lot of non-smokers who stand in the middle of a smokey bar screaming "victim".
So those are my thoughts. Sorry if I've rambled and I apologize if I've offended anyone. Truebrit71, I hope that if you stop enjoying it someday, you'll consider quitting. But in any event I believe you have every right to light up and I, for one, support you-I just may be standing upwind while I do it.

[michaelpush]

195. Since generally, laws are designed to keep order and

protect the public, what a person does to themselves in private should be protected as well. I don't think harmful behavior to others should be protected. In a free society people are given the right to choose their behavior, but, if it infringes on others against their will, there are consequences. If a smoker gets sick, they should have the same right to medical care as anyone else, because a free society is concerned about all its citizens regardless of their choices. I have the right to protection from harm thru law and I will avoid situations where exposure is possible. But, I cant take away the right of a person to choose, if it is not harmful to others,just to themselves, even if I think it is disgusting.

[XemaSab]

196. Thank you for supporting the Republican Party

:hi:

[truebrit71]

203. Do you eat? Then you help support the republican party too.....

:wtf: :eyes:

[XemaSab]

204. I have no clue what the fuck you are talking about

nt

[Rosemary2205]

198. No, I WON'T deal with it.

YOU deal with. It's your habit not mine. Keep your shit in your own space and we'll get along fine.

[cui bono]

202. I hope for your sake you don't live in Santa Monica, CA. lol.

Council Expands Smoking Ban

By Olin Ericksen
Staff Writer

October 12 -- Arguing that the health benefits will far outweigh any potential economic risks, the City Council Tuesday expanded Santa Monica's far-reaching anti-smoking laws with news cameras rolling.

Over the outcries of local businesses who fear the law could impact the $50 million brought in by tourists each year, the council unanimously sided with a number of statewide and national health organizations that have intensely lobbied the council for months.

Using citations to enforce the ban, the law stamps out smoking in all outdoor dining areas; outdoor waiting areas, such as ATMs, bus stops and movie lines; areas within 20 feet of entrances, exits or open windows of buildings open to the public, the Third Street Promenade and all farmers markets.
http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/news/News-2006/October-2006/10_12_06_Council_Expands_Smoking_Ban.htm

I don't care if you smoke as long as I'm not dating you, you don't smoke inside my house, you don't smoke inside my car, you don't smoke inside my work place, you don't smoke around my dogs, I don't have to catch a whiff of the smoke and you actually put out your cig when you're finished with it. But I don't expect any of those to be a problem since I doubt I would ever be hanging out with someone with your attitude. :eyes:

As to the health care arguments, I don't agree. That opens up a whole can of worms which would mean we'd have to monitor what everyone eats as well. Should I pay for beef eaters' heart disease? Sugar eaters diabetes? You just can't go there without creating a list of life choices that everybody has to follow and then you have taken aay even more freedom. That's not right.