People now denying they are republicans....

[Mend]

it is hilarious in sw FL...."I am not a repuke" said one man to me yesterday. "I am not a Democrat" said he, but I will vote for them this time (yea) and then I will vote for mccain for pres. (boo). Seems people no longer want to identify with the repuke party but can't see themselves as one of us, either. I am hearing this a lot now from repukes who voted for bush. Not more w signs on cars, no flags, very few ribbons on the suvs and pick-up trucks. Things are changing but we really need to bring them home to us and I don't know how. Hope Dr. Dean can do this image make-over for our party.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. "we really need to bring them home to us and I don't know how"

You could start by not referring to them as "repukes."

[Mend]

5. if you could hear the scorn in their voices about us....it is a reflex

to want to push back. But maybe you are right...be nice to them.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

19. Not all Republicans are freepers.

A great many of them are, but a lot of them aren't. We need to start thinking about the non-freepers, because the Republican coalition is finished. A lot of people who were Republicans, or who were effectively Republican in the way they voted, are casting around for an alternative right now. A lot of these people are going to have vast ideological differences with what we consider to be progressives. But, as I said, a lot of them aren't going to be driven by purely ideological concerns. What we need to do is look at where our ideas about government intersect with theirs.

We have been losing elections for years because our coalition has been shattered and the Republicans were busy building theirs. Well, they built a house of cards, and now both coalitions are shattered. We have one chance, in the next two years, to start rebuilding our coalition before the Republicans begin to get their shit back together. They may be weak now, but they're already thinking about their recovery.

Take a look at Dean's strategy. A lot of people tend to see it as a geographic expansion for the Democrats, but that's not really what it is. What he's doing is looking for new constituencies. He's looking for the sort of people who might have been Democrats at one time, but have drifted away from the party for various reasons. But he's also looking for new Democrats, like the aforementioned economic conservatives, who value good government more than ideology. Understand that most people in this country don't base their voting decisions on ideology so much as wanting to have a government they can respect, and one that functions properly. And the last thing we want to do with any new Democratic constituency that is approaching us out of hope for decent government is to treat them the way that the Republicans have treated the economic conservatives or the evangelicals.

[HereSince1628]

2. I don't really want anyone who comes with seeds of a 5th column

characterized by 6 years of tolerance to the rw agenda.

What they do in the voting booth is their own business. If it includes voting democratic fine.

But I'd just as soon let them drift partyless as have them inside the party advocating for perma-war, antisocial fiscal policy and christianist anti-human rights psuedo-morality. My concept of the big tent ain't that goddamned big.

[ClassWarrior]

9. Our values are too strong to allow something like that to happen...

...but we also believe in giving people a chance, too. Innocent till proven guilty. Give these people an opportunity. Some might surprise you.

:hi: fellow Sconnie!

NGU.

[HereSince1628]

13. You can believe that but I don't.

Political party's ideologies change. Corporatization of the Democratics happened swiftly in the late 80's and early 90's and resulted in the abandonment of Labor, and the fight for social progress that was the historic heart of the party during the 20th century in favor of pandering to the profit mongers in pursuit of campaign donations.

Moreover I wouldn't presume their innocence anymore than I would for a person abandoning Nazi party affiliation in 1945.

[ClassWarrior]

24. I'm not talking about "party leaders." I'm talking about us. Are...

...you saying your values aren't strong enough to resist RW brand hatred? Mine are.

NGU.

[HereSince1628]

30. I'm saying parties change their positions in response to internal

and external environment. I'm saying I don't trust the multitude that make up the party. I don't presume it would in anyway be useful or correct to to project my feelings or the feelings of any few onto the multitude of democrats.

Just how do you think the corporatists took over the party if it wasn't for acquiescence and support from the base of the party? People actually did support Democratic candidates who proferred that crap.

How many democrats bought into the "we need to look tough on defense" excuse for backing an illegal war of opportunity against Iraq?

Folks can vote anyway they want. A republican voting for a democrat doesn't mean the republican changed her/his beliefs.

I don't want anymore rw supporters pulling the center of gravity of the democratic party further rightward. We are battling back from being WAY past the center of the political spectrum.

[I_Will]

18. "Innocent until proven guilty", eh?

How about aiding and abetting and providing material support for the most patentently guilty regime in our history?

The conservatives backed the wrong horse which, unfortunately for them, turns out to have been doped, its statistics to have been been changed after the fact when unfavorable and to have been ridden by a jockey who had been disgraced in previous other fields of endevor.

While I respect thinking conservatives, screw the republicans!

[ClassWarrior]

22. Judge, jury, and executioner. I guess we should have just...

...ethnically cleansed Germany after Hitler was removed from power, huh?

I find it intriguing whenever so-called "Progressives" promote blind vengeance. Especially ones whom I've never seen here before.

NGU.

[Tellurian]

27. Yes, you're right. I just said those very words myself..

This forum has slowly and systematically been infiltrated by organized groups of "group think"
who hardly represent democratic principles or for that matter left leaning/centrist principles.

How forgiving are these people posting here anyway? They don't sound too encouraging to me.

Republicans were promised glory and honor and family values by their Leaders.
We are finding out at this late date all they have received is SHAME and DISHONOR.

Where do these people go, when they are faced with Demo hardliners resolved to vengeance
and distrust? If you have a well thought out solution, I'd love hearing it.

I'm from the 'Live and Let Live' generation and damn sick of the negativity that floats around
here as self described right thinking democrats.

[I_Will]

32. I hope you're not reading blind vengeance from my post.

It sure wasn't what was meant.

But I do feel that conscientious conservatives need to re-claim their party back from the hucksters, shills and cheats who have seized it in order to have any legitimacy in the future.

I have nothing to back this up, but I'd bet that thinking, concerned and principled party switchers are a minority in the Republican party. I don't think it's that easy - maybe not even possible - to simply change the "polarity" of your idealism without some soul-shaking catastrophe to precipitate it.

On the other hand, the repeat-the-talking-points, quick buck, hop-on-the-bandwagon, win-by-any-means hypocrites symbolized by the newsmakers of the day and idolized by the rest of the party are another story. There may be fewer W stickers on bumpers these days, but I'd bet it's not because they've accepted a more Progressive or Democratic worldview. They're just not showing their colors. I will have no sympathy for them if they no longer have majority status.

I also completely don't understand the "ethnically cleansed" reference.

If you weren't replying directly to my post, thanks for the opportunity to build out my original thought. If you were, I'm still confused by how you drew the inference.

[madokie]

15. I tore my big tent down a while back and don't plan on repitching it

anytime soon. too

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

28. So where do the new Democratic votes come from?

Simply suppressing Republican base turnout is no long-term strategy for success. It helps, but if you're going to secure the long-term future of the Democratic Party, then you need to find new votes, and there are two main sources:

1) New voters / politically inactive types
2) People who voted for the other side last time.

Should we ignore the second category of voters altogether?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

20. The Republicans you're talking about won't vote Democratic anyway.

The hardcore freepers will never be a problem, cause they ain't gonna vote for us. They'll either vote Republican, or stay home. But there are a hell of a lot of middle-of-the-road Republican voters who wouldn't necessarily even class themselves as Republicans who are ripe for the picking, and the only thing we need to do to get them is prove that we aren't completely fucking useless at running a government.

[ClassWarrior]

23. Amen.

NGU.

[leesa]

3. Well, if he thinks McCain is an acceptable candidate, he's still insane.

Obviously, he hasn't learned a damned thing.

[Mend]

8. I said the same thing to him and he said mccain has to "play up

to the right-wing but he really isn't like that".

[bdamomma]

4. of course, now they are saying they are not republicans it's

hypocrisy at its highest. will these same people say they are independents now

[liberaldemocrat7]

6. The candidates and incumbent Republicans also don't run

as Republicans in their ads. They emphasize their so called independence.

I suppose voting 4 percent against Bush makes them independent? hahahahahaha

Heather Wilson appears one Republican who diesn't mention Republican in her ads for re election.

[ClassWarrior]

7. Pick up "Thinking Points," the new handbook for Progressives from Lakoff.

He lays out the fundamentals of how we should present our values - what he calls "the best of American values." We need to learn to relate what's in our hearts to the people you describe.

NGU.

[KharmaTrain]

10. Run Gnewt Run...

Stand by for detonation. One way or another, on November 8th, there's gonna be an explosion that will shake this country.

While I loathe the thought, I said a long time ago and a reason I'm so focused on this election is that the future of the Democratic Party lies in the balance of this election's outcome. Another loss and...well, let me stay on the good foot. So far this election cycle, we've seen a rejuvenation of the party...and while its far from most of our ideal, it's a lot stronger today than in any election since 1986 or 74. The hope here is to retake one if not both houses, then to condolidate that hold in '08...and with more Progressives.

On the other side, you're seeing the "big tent" fraying in all directions. The "social conservatives" vs. the "fiscal" conservatives vs the boooosh repugnicans vs the "true believers" vs the party hack...this is a party that has papered over its difference with money and power...and with less of both, the warts start to show.

An election loss...and it doesn't have to be large, will start the blame game...who lost the election and why...and the finger pointing will be fast and furious. The "illegal alien" crowd will blame the "Wall Street" crowd who will blame the "Fundies" who will blame "The Gays" who will hide in the closet...and the biggest loser will be boooosh who will officially become a lame duck and the game will be whose the biggest "anti-booosh" to succede in '08.

Many of these so-called "Independents" are ripe territory for a third party. I'd love to see the Liberatarians become the GOOP's Green Party...siphoning off 5 or 10%...then another third party emerge...a populist like a Hagel who will fit to the left of McCain and a Gingrich to the right...and the '08 Repugnican primary will be a bloody mess.

In the meantime, there's votes to get to the polls on Nov. 7th...without those, we won't be able to watch the implosion.

[never_get_over_it]

11. I wish these idiots in FL

would wake the hell up and vote out the incumbents - the repunks have let this insurance and property tax situation get way out of hand. With the cost of insurance and property taxes I most likely will have to move the hell out of here - and the insurance is just ridiculous - my homeowner's insurance is almost SEVEN times what it was in Northern VA....now I know we risk hurricanes but I have to say $4,000 a year is insane....

[elehhhhna]

12. Same here in SUGAR LAND, TX! There IS a God. Btw, God is married & his

wifes name is KARMA.

[radfringe]

14. elephant flu outbreak - people don't want to catch it

http://www.comicssherpa.com/site/feature?uc_comic=cscwc&uc_full_date=20061015

[madokie]

17. gotta' be one of the best

[theHandpuppet]

16. Hell, a lot of the GOP CANDIDATES won't admit they're Republicans!

I see a LOT of this around these parts, ie, GOP candidates not identifying their party affiliation in their ads. The most glaring example that comes to mind are the TV ads of Maryland's gubernatorial hopeful Michael Steele, who has spent the last several years with his lips latched to Bush's anus but now tries to present himself as an independent critical of both parties.... wthout EVER identifying himself as the Republican candidate! Nice try, you slimebag. Just another member of the NAMBLA (North American Moran-Bush Love Association) and I hope Marylanders don't fall for this B.S.

[acmejack]

21. Nationwide, nowhere are they admitting to being republicans.

They never state any party affiliation at all, which is the only way you can tell they are, in fact, republicans!

[Hugin]

26. You noticed that too... eh?

Will we hear about it in the bulk media?

*dramatic pause*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*gasp*

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Hugin]

25. Took the words right out of my mouth...

Yep.

[earth mom]

33. My husband noticed that here in Oregon too.

The rethugs ARE hiding their party affiliation. :eyes:

[SpreadItAround]

29. I find that a lot of Republicans are calling themselves Libertarians now

[acmejack]

31. As Thom Hartmann says, "Libertarians are just republicans that smoke pot"!