ANSWER.org. A legit organization or a GOP front????

[devilgrrl]

There's something about them that smells, I'm thinking they're a scam. Rarely do they stick with the issue at hand. They may hold anti-war rallies but the war is the last thing they discuss. For the moment I won't participate in their anti-war marches and I regularly refer to them as "The GOP Hippie Squad".

Am I rushing to judgment or being to harsh?

You tell me.

[David__77]

1. Legitimate!

If liberals had spine and opposed the criminal war from the start, then ANSWER would have been marginalized. The radical left is owed a debt for its crucial leadership, however.

[devilgrrl]

3. Is that why Puerto Rican rights is an issue at anti-war rallies?

How about Mumia Abu Jumal???? WTF does he have to do with what's going over in Iraq? I think they're full of shit and are intentionally muddying the message and making the left look stupid.

[David__77]

11. Nope...

I agree that keeping a clear focus on the war of aggression is best. That's why I'm more of a Not in My Name person myself. But the message must be "out NOW!" and must be thoroughly opposed to the criminal occupation. Again, liberals ceded to the left through their political cowardice and duplicity.

[rinsd]

17. "radical left is owed a debt for its crucial leadership"

Yes, they've turned anti-war rallies from the millions into those of thousands while the war grew expotentially unpopular.

Way to go ANSWER!

:sarcasm:

[David__77]

25. SO, why aren't the beloved liberals organizing protests??

You condemn the left, but let the liberals off the hook, even though they don't organize anything for the most part. The Democratic Party, even the DLC, is totally, 100% free to organize their own anti-war protests excluding ANSWER, and then, according to your logic, wouldn't there again be "millions" in the streets?

[rinsd]

32. "You condemn the left" BS I condemn a sub section of the left

Which sees a worthy cause and thinks recruits & dollars for its own aims. They could give a shit about war. See the Kosovo war(they opposed US involvement, not Serbian) and the ones preceding it. If NK was to launch an attack on South Korea tomorrow, they would spout of BS about the beautiful reunification.

"wouldn't there again be "millions" in the streets?"

Possibly. I think UFPJ is doing something for the March anniversary.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

2. What's your judgement based on?

Looking at their website, I would find it very difficult to believe that the GOP are fond of them.

http://www.internationalanswer.org/

[devilgrrl]

4. delete.... dupe

eom

[devilgrrl]

5. Their sorry excuse for a rally in Washington, DC last year...

talked about everything under the sun except for Iraq.

[Selatius]

7. That is perhaps ANSWER's greatest weakness

They are a not a group as much as a disparate coalition of different interests.

The result is a scatter-shot message that muddled the purpose of the D.C. rally last year. On top of that, they went over-time despite agreeing to abide by a timeline negotiated with other groups, the biggest of which was United for Peace and Justice.

[devilgrrl]

9. Their "greatest weakness" gives me pause...

and makes me wonder what they're really about.

[Selatius]

15. I don't ascribe any ulterior motive to ANSWER

Occam's Razor tells me they are just a coalition of disparate groups that have a terrible time communicating a simple message that doesn't include everything from saving the rainforest to free-Tibet movements at a rally that's mainly about opposing the war in Iraq.

If they were a front group supported by corporate donors, we would have seen it by now. Somebody would've leaked documents, or somebody would've found out by looking at their tax filings.

[Howardx]

6. i think she has a point

the speeches at the rallies ive seen tend to turn into person after person coming up urging the crowd to pay attention to whatever their special issue is and diffusing the crowds energy by getting off message. (stop the war being the message)

[devilgrrl]

8. The ones in Los Angeles get a kick out of inciting the cops...

smooth move assholes.

[David__77]

12. Like Rodney King, huh?

I'm not so sure what constitutes "incitement" to LA's "finest," rife with racist and neo-Nazi gangs in blue.

[devilgrrl]

13. You're down with some fuckwit with microphone getting the cops wound up?

With tv cameras rolling... and some git's going off about what loser's the cops are - which may or may not be true - in the process making the protestors look like fools. You're for that??????????

Oooooookay..... whatever. :eyes:

[David__77]

18. I cannot speak to what you're referring too.

But the record of the LAPD is clear, not only in systematically violating human rights of people of color, but also in "police rioting" against all manner of progressive and left protesters. They deserve exposure and if they can't handle that, it only exposes them all the more. Thousands and thousands who've suffered at their hands can testify to the truth of the matter.

[devilgrrl]

20. I live in Los Angeles and I'm basing my opinions on what I've seen...

personally. The cops weren't doing anything and the ANSWER guy was being an asshole. Sorry, I can't bash the LAPD in this instance.

[WilliamPitt]

10. The good, the bad and the ugly

The good: they are masterful organizers who can put 300,000 pairs of feet on the pavement in DC.

The bad: they are an umprella organization that includes every concievable permutation of protest group; watching an ANSWER protest, one gets the sense that we all collectively stand for Free-Mumia-meat-is-murder-Palestine-rules-Israel-sucks-go-vegan-save-the-seals-live-food-only...and their protests always seem to lose focus, especially when 90% of the people in the crowd simply want Iraq to end and Bush to be held accountable.

The ugly: the main ANSWER people are serious Maoists and I can flat guarantee that you would not want to live in any kind of world they would create if they had the chance. They also don't play well with others; the clusterfuck of a protest last September fell apart because of a stupid mudfight between ABSWER and UFPJ.

Bottom line: ANSWER is what happens when the Left becomes Balkanized on issues. Someone has to do it, and they have filled the void.

[David__77]

14. Not correct.

You say "the main ANSWER people are serious Maoists." That's not true. Workers World, and now its offshoot Socialism and Liberation, are NOT Maoists. They are actually Trotskyites. But even so: so what? Communists of all stripes played leading roles in the Vietnam-era movement that was indeed successful, and they are now too. The UFPJ is dominated by Communist Party and ex-CPers--again, so what?

[rinsd]

21. The WWP is STALINIST

They came into being because the CPUSA decided that the invasion of Hungary was to be opposed therefore there was a splintering with Hugary invasion supporter starting the WWP.

They also thought the actions of China in Tiannemen Square were a-ok.

Same with Milosevic.

Fuck them.

[Selatius]

24. That's why I generally don't sit entirely well with state socialists

The state is a tool of raw power, and history demonstrates it has been used as a tool of oppression of the people.

I'd rather pursue change through direct action and popular organization of the people outside a central state bureaucracy. If that makes me more of an Anarchist (or libertarian socialist as some prefer as opposed to authoritarian socialist), then so be it.

[rinsd]

27. Interesting...

My question would be how to implement such a system on populations larger than a small town (sub 5000).

So do you ascribe the Soviet councils model that sprung up briefly in the aftermath of 1917?

[Selatius]

34. Yes, anarchist communism is a tendency found under left libertarianism

It's one of the larger tendencies found in the left libertarian quadrant. The others include mutualism, collectivist anarchism, anarcho-syndicalism (See Noam Chomsky), and individualist anarchism.

Unfortunately, relatively little information is available on the autonomous citizen soviets that sprung up in the power vacuum. The Bolsheviks opposed soviets that were autonomous and not under their control. As a result, much information was destroyed, and many soviets were subjugated in the end.

We do, however, have far more information on what society would look like in the absence of a central state authority and the absence of an ownership class by studying Spain during their Civil War and France during the May-June Uprising of 1968. I guess a good living example today could be the Zapatistas in Chiapas, Mexico.

I would qualify that I am not an advocate of ripping down the old order without providing a working model for an alternative. This was done in the decades prior to the incidents in Spain and France. People knew what to do. They were exposed to the general principles behind socialism and direct action and popular organization. Without prior education, all you would have is anomie, sheer chaos, not anarchism as traditionally defined.

It is not worth it to try if people are not educated and do not have a grasp of the ideas. It is a very bad idea to do it with an ignorant population. The Spanish and French people were and are still, to some extent, quite aware of the ideas to this day.

I won't say the same for the American population.

[David__77]

28. They uphold Trotsky.

Go to workers.org if you wish and you can see this is true through a few simple queries. Yes, they supporting Deng Xiaoping and Ceausescu. I could care less really in the context of an anti-war movement. They take the correct position in opposing this war uncompromisingly.

[devilgrrl]

16. Well, it looks as if the negatives (bad, ugly) outweight the positives...

thanks for that. :-)

[Greeby]

19. Just dumbasses

Who can't get their collective head and ass wired together and get with the program.

I saw the hour they were given on C-Span for the September 05 protest and it was horrendous. Not only where they talking about every topic under the sun, the speakers were bloody awful. There is a method to effective speechifyin, running through the words at warp speed with no real emotion or impact doesn't fit the bill

[David__77]

23. ANSWER generates coalition events.

They are trying to draw in a lot of different groups. That's how the left operates, unfortunately. And they want to speak. Some are bad. I don't listen, but I sure as hell march and chant. Why not be irritated that the Democratic Party isn't mobilizing protests against the war?

[David__77]

22. What's with the FOX NEWS-type "question" in the headline anyway?

You already had your own answer. The politically honest thing would have been to state "ANSWER.org: GOP front." While feigning the inquiry "Am I rushing to judgment or being to harsh?" you already had a firm conviction.

It's like if FOX NEWS had an onscreen banner: "Democrats: Cut and Run Defeatocrats, or Not?"

[readmoreoften]

26. I love that people feel chill enough about this crisis to be picky.

When the Shah of Iran was deposed liberals, communists, nationalists and islamic militants banded together to oust the Shah. Of course, they didn't like the theocracy they got in return-- in fact the fundamentalists murdered the communists when they came to power-- but by adhering to my-enemies-enemy-is-my-friend they did what no ONE group could do.

I don't feel like I have the luxury to NOT show up when UPJ or ANSWER or WCW throw a protest. You want a liberal protest run by liberals or even "centrists", then organize one. Until I see liberals put their feet on the ground, I guess I'll be marching with Communists and Mumia supporters because I have no other choice. Why don't I organize a liberal protest myself? Because I'm comfortable enough in my politics to stand next to a bunch of reds and hold my own anti-bush banner.

And frankly, I hear a lot of bitching about how lefties only focus on the "symptoms" such as police brutality et al, but I would say that the War in Iraq is also only a symptom of the problem-- one of the worst symptoms, but still not the root cause. There are thousands of reasons to oust this government but not because of a war-- they should be ousted because this is a fascist government.

[David__77]

29. Thank you!

This is urgent. NO sectarianism! If the DLC organized an anti-war march, I'd go. If the LaRouchies are there, who cares? This is a crisis of monumental proportions.

[readmoreoften]

36. I would go to a DLC anti-regime march.

But I think I'd be even more suspicious of them than the Communists. I'd still go. If the LaRouche folks threw an anti-bush march, I'd go. I think we need a broad coalition of groups on the left to fight the right wing at this moment. But liberals, IMO, are too skittish about being labeled "leftist" and "red" to take part.

Don't like Mumia? Hell, I don't like don't ask don't tell or Clinton's support of DOMA, but I still pushed the lever for him. Don't talk to me about having to hold your nose at a rally.

[David__77]

30. Anyway, my final thought: unite against the main enemy - the right.

All else should be put to the side. We need political discipline at this time. That's how victory can be achieved.

[geek tragedy]

33. The problem is that having anti-war marches led by Stalinist

tankies creates the impression that the anti-war movement is led by Stalinist tankies, and that anyone in the antiwar movement is a Stalinist tankie.

People oppose this war now--and it had nothing to do with demonstrations. Rather, it's the daily toll of human beings dying.

[readmoreoften]

37. There are no Stalinists leading the anti-war brigade. /nt

[greeneyedboy]

31. all it takes is a few agents provocateurs, disruptors, trolls...

to make a whole lot of people waste a lot of time and look like dopes.

i don't think everyone at ANSWER is insincere, but i wouldn't be surprised if they had been infiltrated. hell, some tiny peace group in Fresno CA was infiltrated; i'd be surprised if ANSWER *weren't*.

[Richard Steele]

35. Mostly sincere but naive; manipulated by a small % of RW infiltrators.

Bottom line: they hurt more than help.

However well-intentioned, their unfocused actions add up to
little more than readymade grist for the RW Propaganda Mill
which has so successfully perpetuated the "looney, ivory-tower liberal"
meme, lo these many years.