Did Diebold Stop Dean?

[ecstatic]

I know it's many years after the fact, but a post by another DUer has me wondering...

Was Diebold used to rob Dean in the primaries? Dean was leading in all the polls and then suddenly Kerry appeared out of nowhere, winning primaries. If there was vote tampering in the General Election, isn't it possible that there was also vote tampering in the primaries, because they feared a Dean run?

[davidwparker]

1. The Democratic leadership and the media is my answer.

They feared Dean, man of the people.

[karynnj]

33. Dean was on the cover of 3 major news magazines in one week

sometime in July/August 2003. He was hyped by all the media as the one ahead.

Then came the debates,

Dean and Gepheart, the 2 frontrunners attacking each other like crazy

and ...

In Iowa a few weeks before the caucuses, you had 2 stories side by side - Dean yelling at a 70+ year old heckler to "sit down"

and

Kerry being reunited with the man whose life he saved in Vietnam. To top it off, Kerry quietly saying that anyone would have done it.

Isn't it likely that this swayed some people - like me - who liked both of them intially? (I watched the clips several times)

[NYCGirl]

47. But you fail to mention that the cover stories were not positive, as

shown in this article by Eric Bohlert:

http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2004/01/13/dean_media/index.html

When the Washington Post introduced readers to Howard Dean in a long Page 1 feature July 6, part of a series of "meet the Democrats" candidate profiles, the paper went for the jugular, literally, with a cartoonish, unflattering description to open the article: "Howard Dean was angry. Ropy veins popped out of his neck, blood rushed to his cheeks, and his eyes, normally blue-gray, flashed black, all dilated pupils."

Six months later, an extended version of that campaign narrative, polished by Republican talking-points memos and echoed day after day by the mainstream media, remains a constant of the campaign trail: Dean is a sarcastic smart aleck with foot-in-the mouth disease, a political ticking time bomb. The former Vermont governor remains the front-runner among Democratic voters, but he's gotten increasingly caustic treatment from the media, which has dwelled on three big themes -- that Dean's angry, gaffe-prone and probably not electable -- while giving comparatively far less ink to the doctor's policy and political prescriptions that have catapulted him ahead of the Democratic field. Newsweek's critical Jan. 12 cover story, "All the Rage: Dean's Shoot-From-the-Hip Style and Shifting Views Might Doom Him in November," achieved a nifty trifecta that covered anger, gaffes and electability, all three of the main media raps against Dean.

Certainly Dean has an unorthodox political style. Unvarnished and blunt, his pronouncements on domestic and foreign policy are at times controversial, occasionally sloppy and, in any event, deserve press scrutiny. It's obvious Dean has changed his position on some policy matters, such as NAFTA. As a governor he supported the free trade pact; as a presidential candidate he does not. He once suggested raising the retirement age to protect Social Security; now he does not. And Dean's electoral formula is far from certain -- he's the former governor of a tiny Northeastern state, and no one knows how far his Internet base will carry him in a long, brutal national campaign against the well-funded, disciplined Bush machine.

[davidwparker]

49. It's possible. But I was referring to running the scream nonstop. This,

if watched on C-SPAN, shows that nothing was out of the ordinary. CNN reporter Crowley who stood outside of a room where Dean was and saying "I can't help but think we did this" was another. Gephart and Torricelli were two that I had in mind about Dem leadership.

There other gaffs that Dean made. Thinking he was going to see Carter to get an endorsement when all he got was a handshake looked awkward.

Overall, the media went after Dean the same way they did Gore.

[spooked]

2. This has crossed my mind too...

If Diebold could affect the winner of the election, it could just as easily choose the Democratic presidential candidate.

If Hilary Clinton decides to run, look for her to be "their" choice in 2008!

[blm]

3. No. Iowa is a CAUCUS where your BODY IS COUNTED.

The media was misdirecting people for months. They over-reported Dean's support on the ground and Gephardt's while UNDER-reporting Kerry's strength on the ground there.


They were so wrong they hyped the hell out of Dean's "scream" to cover the legitimate question of How did they get it so wrong? Or WHY did they get it so wrong?


Why people were so willing to believe the corpmedia is a thread in itself.

Frankly, many people don't even know the difference between a caucus and a standard primary vote. That, too, should get a thread of its own.

[mtnsnake]

22. Don't underestimate Diebold. They've been known to be body invaders.

I heard that somewhere, probably here.

[Wiley50]

4. Dem Leadership set up the "Dean Scream"

whith a willing media piling on.

My son was a Dean volunteer in Iowa and was
at that rally. It was TOTAL BULLSHIT!

[blm]

16. Media hyped Dean scream to cover getting caught in their own lie - they

had been under-reporting Kerry's strength on the ground in Iowa while over-reporting Dean and Gephardt's.

Kerry had been gaining throughout the series of debates and by end of November was already strong on the ground.

[karynnj]

34. The Dean scream was after he came in a weak 3rd in Iowa

Kerry - 38, Edwards - 32, Dean -18.

[fudge stripe cookays]

37. Me too.

It was total crap. We were sad that we came in third, but felt so much better after that rally. we were on a bus back to Texas, and didn't even know about "the scream" until 2 days later when we got home.

[LSK]

42. thats how I saw it

[texasleo]

5. Are you nuts?

[sce56]

6. Why else would you have Skull & Boners running against themselves

They covered the bases in case Bush was impossibly low in the polls!

[liberal N proud]

7. Karl Rove and his media did him in!

[Virginia Dare]

9. Yes, no question about it...

that was classic Rove..start a whisper campaign about his mental stability.

[Junkdrawer]

8. Leaving the Kerry/Dean issue aside, remember that the very same...

mechanism that operates in the General Election operates in the Primaries.

Also, remember that Nixon put a lot of stock in picking his opponents.

[blm]

12. And the media was pushing one candidate to the near exclusion of others

for most of 2003 and even declared Kerry's candidacy dead for months,, completely NOT REPORTING The strength of his support on the ground in Iowa that he was gaining throughout the debate series.

[AtomicKitten]

10. Dean was robbed, alright.

By whom, I can't really say. As I recall, Dean was waaaaaaay in the lead and all of a sudden Kerry is raised from the pack. It was almost as if that was not our decision. Can't explain that gut feeling but there it is anyway.

[blm]

14. It was the corpmedia who kept telling you Dean was way ahead while

under-reporting Kerry's growing strength on the ground there as the debates went on.

Iowa is a CAUCUS state where your BODY IS COUNTED and no one leaves the room until that body is counted.

I can't believe people still don't know how caucuses are counted.

[AtomicKitten]

35. Thanks for the civics lesson proffered inappropriately

assuming yet again we dumbasses here at DU must be uninformed. And funny how the anti-corporate candidate is accused of being coddled by the corporate media while in the same breath the more corporate candidate (comparatively) is alleged to have been dogged by that same media. Doesn't wash. Something yet unexplained happened to Dean's candidacy. A moot issue at this point and I certainly have no dog in this hunt, but just saying.

[blm]

39. Your claims are wrong again - Kerry was never the more corporate candidate

He had never taken corporate pac money throughout his senate career.

He helped craft Kyotu for 10 years -which most corporations were against.

He had the best environmental rrecord of ALL the candidates.

Kerry wrote and submitted the Clean Money, Clean Elections bill to take corporate money OUT OF ELECTIONS.

As governor, Dean was the highest rated Democrat by CATO Institute for his pro-business sense of governance. He even proudly said he governed as a centrist, and before the Iraq war became an issue, planned to run as a centrist - In retrospect I believe "progressive centrist" would more accurately describe Dean.

The corpmedia painted him as a radical lefty, completely ignoring his 11 yr record as governor. But, it fit their storyline - in primaries, especially one during wartime, it's good to pit the Dems against each other while providing little information about who they really are.

I believe that Dean has sincerely moved left since then, brought along by the earnestness of his supporters from the left - but to keep the story straight, there is no way that Kerry was the "more corporate candidate" as you claim.

BTW - - Kerry submitted this senate resolution to overturn the FCC decision that benefitted the big corporate media in earlty June 2003 - shortly after, his coverage was reduced and coincidentally, another candidate would be recieving a press plane from the media powers that be. I don't blame Dean - the media did made the decision.



Kerry Seeks to Reverse FCC's "Wrongheaded Vote"

Commission Decision May Violate Laws Protecting Small Businesses; Kerry to File Resolution of Disapproval

Monday, June 2, 2003

WASHINGTON - Senator John Kerry today announced plans to file a "Resolution of Disapproval" as a means to overturn today's decision by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to raise media ownership caps and loosen various media cross-ownership rules.
Kerry will soon introduce the resolution seeking to reverse this action under the Congressional Review Act and Small Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act on the grounds that the decision may violate the laws intended to protect America's small businesses and allow them an opportunity to compete.

As Ranking Member of the Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship, Kerry expressed concern that the FCC's decision will hurt localism, reduce diversity, and will allow media monopolies to flourish. This raises significant concerns about the potential negative impacts the decision will have on small businesses and their ability to compete in today's media marketplace.

In a statement released earlier today regarding the FCC's decision, Kerry said:

"Nothing is more important in a democracy than public access to debates and information, which lift up our discourse and give Americans an opportunity to make honest informed choices. Today's wrongheaded vote by the Republican members of the FCC to loosen media ownership rules shows a dangerous indifference to the consolidation of power in the hands of a few large entities rather than promoting diversity and independence at the local level. The FCC should do more than rubber stamp the business plans of narrow economic interests.

"Today's vote is a complete dereliction of duty. The Commissioners are well aware that these rules greatly influence the competitive structure of the industry and protect the public's access to multiple sources of information and media. It is the Commission's responsibility to ensure that the rules serve our national goals of diversity, competition, and localism in media. With today's vote, they shirked that responsibility and have dismissed any serious discussion about the impact of media consolidation on our own democracy."

[AtomicKitten]

48. the "comparatively"

... refers to compared to Dean, the other subject in that sentence - not tough to follow but, as always, a springboard for a "yeah Kerry" rant.

[Mass]

23. Well, Dean had 30 % of the votes in his best polls. That is still 70 %

who disagreed with him. They looked for another candidate and liked Kerry.

I know that you will not believe that, but it was clear in the Iowa media for the two or three months that Kerry was convincing and Dean was not.

[Mr_Spock]

11. Weeping

This is not such a good way to focus on the upcoming elections :(

[mnhtnbb]

13. Iowa caucus is where Dean went down. No machines.

Dean was brought down by a combination of factors, but I don't think we can point the finger at Diebold.

[sendero]

40. We can point the finger...

... at the idiocy of allowing a state like Iowa to effectively pick our nominee.

They haven't been doing a very good job. Nothing against Iowans, but I challenge the idea that they are representative of the country.

[mnhtnbb]

43. It really started before the caucus, when Gore endorsed him.

That freaked out Kerry, Gephardt, and Edwards, who all got together
to borrow and rephrase his best ideas, and then join Kucinich in
beating him up. Kucinich was pissed when Dean would make omments about being the only one against the War--forgetting to include the fact that Kucinich was also against the War, from the beginning.

Then, of course, there was the 'scream', the media manufactured
and ad nauseum replayed artifact from a mike.

I also have wondered whether there was significant crossover registration of Republicans who went to the Dem caucuses just so they could stand up for someone other than Dean. I never heard that analyzed.

[cmd]

15. Dean had a learning experience

He raised an enormous amount of money and used it recklessly. He didn't understand the "machine". Fortuantely, he is a quick learner and is doing a great job where he is. Life did not end for Howard Dean.

[yurbud]

18. recklessly? how?

[cmd]

32. Let's see

He went into the primaries with more money than anyone. By the end of round one, he was broke. Others still had money. He spent when he didn't have to spend. Then it was gone and so was Howard.

[yurbud]

17. Dean was taken down primarily by lamest character assassination ever

The correct response to the "Dean Scream" nonsense would have been for Dean to go on news talk shows, chuckle, admit he's not a trained cheerleader like Bush, then ask the host of the show to demonstrate the correct way to do that yell.

[Bombtrack]

27. The Dean scream happened the night he was shown to already have been

taken down. Not before.

He was brought down by being a bad candidate supported by trendster, unpragmatic, annoying people.

[fudge stripe cookays]

38. As someone who was...

brought into the political process by Howard Dean after never showing any previous interest interest in politics, I'd just like to say a big fat FUCK YOU.

There were plenty of "trendster, unpragmatic, annoying people" who finally woke up and are now involved in educating the un-informed precisely because of Howard and his internet campaign.

fsc

[bklyncowgirl]

19. Kinda hard to Diebold a caucus

That doesn't mean that there weren't any shananigans going on but Diebold had nothing to do with it.

[Zensea]

20. I am and was a Dean supporter from the beginning and I think

you're nuts.
Thanks for providing that as one of the options to pick.

[Mass]

21. Diebold a caucus? How do you do that?

[JI7]

28. skull and bones of course

;-)

[Perky]

24. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

ummm NO.


Look I credit Howard Dean for changing the tone of the O4 Nominating process....But his campaign was a web-based insurgency and while it may have played well on college campuses and the blogosphere. It did not play particularly well in the Heartland.

It is great to be the leader of an insurgency but the truth of the matter was that Dean did not connect with Iowans as being "presidential"....At the end of the day that is all that really matters. It is organization orrganization orgranization. Retail..retail...retail. The "scream" simply killed his chances.

And besides Iowa is a caucus state and it is by paper ballot.

[mtnsnake]

25. Yup, I think Diebold hypnotized the Iowa caucus by swinging corn cobs

in front of their eyes.

Either that, or Dean actually won Iowa, but Diebold infiltrated the results once they were put into the computers and made them come out looking like Kerry was the winner. Unbelievable but true.

[Bombtrack]

26. Republicans wanted Dean to get the democratic nomatation

and for good reason. Somebody supporting the increase of federal taxes on EVERY TAX BRACKET as apposed to the likes of Kerry, Edwards, and Clark who would have tried to raise it on the highest bracket would have lost in a landslide.

[JI7]

29. Kerry didn't appear out of nowhere , he was gaining in polls

just because the big media didn't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

the smaller papers reporter what was really going on. Des Moines Register (which endorsed Edwards) reported of Kerry gaining in polls and his crowds getting larger.

he was gaining in New Hampshire before he won the Iowa Caucus also.

and Iowa Caucus does not vote with machines. the voters publicly declare who they will vote for and they do hand and body counts.

[ecstatic]

41. oh ok. I thought they used machines like we did

Of course, by the time our primaries came around it no longer even mattered who we picked. Kerry was pretty much the chosen one.

[blm]

44. Except not chosen by the media who tried to kill him off long before they

went after Dean. Read the above post where the media dropped Kerry's coverage right after he filed a senate resolution against the FCC decision allowing expanded media ownership.

I think people have no idea how much was really going down during the primaries and they came up with shorthand answers to fit a storyline concocted out of internet mythology.

[Jcrowley]

30. No

Dean was destroyed by the US corporate media, that includes NPR. Back channels decided Dean was a quaint relic but must be eliminated and the media did their job and assassinated Howard. I remember it vividly and the assaults were vicious and non-stop.

Complete manipulation of the political electorate towards the necessary manufactured consensus.

There was no "fairness" involved whatsoever, that's not how it's done.

[ContraBass Black]

31. Diebold built the buildings that the Caucus was held in, and shaped the

You know that's bullshit.

[Sir Jeffrey]

36. If you go back and look at Joe Trippi's remarks...

he said that basically the Dean campaign was geared to run as an "insurgency" aimed at taking down whoever was the frontrunner. When they came out early as the frontrunner (before about 60-70 percent had even started paying attention) they tried to switch gears and it simply didn't work for them. Dean was anti-establishment and here he was leading the establishment from the start.

Also, Dean and Gephardt had some rough and tumble debates early on and that killed Dean in Iowa. Iowa was a caucus so there was no chance of tampering there. Kerry had a better ground game in New Hampshire. Any possible tampering after those two contests were unnecessary if they did occur (which I haven't seen any evidence of that being the case).

I will say that, as others have pointed out, the biggest evidence of conspiracy on behalf of the Republican machine was the Dean Scream...a fictional media creation if there ever was one.

Finally, I don't think the Republicans would risk exposing their vote tampering in the opponent's primaries...especially since they knew they could steal it in the fall regardless of who won.

[WI_DEM]

45. I was and am a huge Dean supporter and No, diebold didn't stop Dean

Iowa is a caucus and the momentum from Iowa turned things around fast and Kerry was nominated--pure and simple.

[slackmaster]

46. THAL, you have presented NO EVIDENCE to support theft

You're "wondering".

Give us a break.