"Tempting Faith" story on 60 Minutes now (David Kuo's book)

[Hissyspit]

[thinksmart]

1. cool

thanks

[Olney Blue]

2. I'm watching. Kuo seems credible.

[Hissyspit]

4. Yes, but he has been suckered and he knows it.

[Olney Blue]

8. And now he's being strung up by the WH

as a nut himself

[CatWoman]

9. unlike Tooey the weasel

[Warpy]

3. Starting with the Duke rape case here

Phooey, hope I remember to switch over later.

[Hissyspit]

5. The Duke case goes on for about 30 minutes (two segments)

[Warpy]

17. All the better to turn viewers off

so they'll switch the channel at the half hour mark and watch something fluffy but entertaining and miss Kuo.

They do this shit for a reason.

[Olney Blue]

6. "wonder working power" in * speech

code for evangelicals from a Christian hymn

[graywarrior]

10. They've been using NLP since the beginning of their evil empire.

[derby378]

7. 2002 WaPo story declared "all true"

Hoooo boy. This is gonna be fun.

[Olney Blue]

12. They played fast and loose with separation of church and state.

These faith based initiative ideas were unconstitutional.

[Rhiannon12866]

11. K&R. Watching it too...

I don't get this...:shrug: But it's a story that needs to be told.:-(

[babsbunny]

13. OH! Thank You!

[karlrschneider]

14. My roomie came in to tell me it was on the same moment I saw your post

:D

[Olney Blue]

15. Kuo: "The name of God is being destroyed in the name of politics"

He had a brain tumor and I guess that liberated him to speak out.

[RamboLiberal]

16. This guy's the David Brock of exposing how Repukes use religion

I hope some of these fundies take to heart his idea of a fast. I like that he's also realistic about how the WH will come after him (and we already see that in this piece) and how he even answered that they will try to paint him as crazy because of his brain tumor.

[edhopper]

18. Just be aware

that we won't really see them go after this guy. Sure they will deny that what he says is true, but they will really go after him in the evangelical community. They will send the word down through the evangelical organizations that he should be linked to Judas. That he is doing this for his 30 pieces of silver. He is betraying Great Leader Bush. Just as Judas betrayed Jesus.
There might be a small story about it in the NYT or WP, but for the most part it will be under the radar.
Remember they don't care how this story hits most voters. Only their evangelical base.

[rusty_parts2001]

19. 60 Minutes made him appear a lot less credible...

than the portrayal he got on Keith Olbermann's Countdown. He was set up in this piece. I think they are still cowering from Rathergate.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

28. In what ways was he made to not look credible? I missed the show..

[hsher]

20. I like him.

I made one of my Daily Show cartoons depicting Jon Stewart praising him. Brave man. Hope he makes it through the brain tumor OK.

[Broadslidin]

21. Could The Bush Cobol Be Finally Telling The Truth: Robertson is Insane!

:yoiks:

[Kingofalldems]

22. He couldn't be a real repub

He didn't use the phrase 'democrat party' 25 times during the interview. :rofl:

[RamboLiberal]

23. CBS Link to Story and Video for those of you who might have missed

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/14/60minutes/main2089778.shtml

[Poiuyt]

24. I just saw a story about Kuo's book on my local news!

Almost all from Kuo's point of view. Very damning for repubs

[elocs]

25. Christians have always been easy to deceive.

Remember how shocked Billy Graham was when he heard Nixon's language. Christians, by the nature of their religion, are predisposed to be deceived. They are taught not to question their leaders and those in authority. They are taught to be obedient. This is why cults do so well. Christians have a circle the wagons mentality: you are either with them or you are of the world. Many will refuse to believe that Bush and his Republican cohorts have used them regardless of the evidence. Most Christians are decent people, but they can be easily manipulated and misled. Democrats should not count on their support in any great number, but should hope that they just stay home on election day.

[w4rma]

26. They should be voting Democratic, because it is Democrats who support

Jesus's teachings.

They need to get over using the law to *force* people to do things. They need to love folks who are different from them, and who want to live their lives in peace with others, instead of trying to punish them.

That's really the bottom line. It's not that they can't (or even perhaps shouldn't) hold their beliefs. It's that they need to quit trying to *force* those beliefs on others.

Democrats should have no problem working with evangelicals that love their neighbors (rather than fearing them or wishing to punish them) and who don't believe in forcing others to obey their beliefs.

Do not write off evangelicals. Do not write off Christians.

[elocs]

27. The Democratic Part has too many deal breakers,

such as stances on abortion, prayer in schools, and homosexuality, to attract any great numbers of Evangelical Christians. Also, as is evidenced here at DU, there are Democrats who are openly hostile towards Christians and their beliefs. Could you imagine a Republican saying that his party should not write off liberals, should not write off Democrats? That is far more like to occur than Christians, particularly an Evangelical Christian, would be to abandon their deeply held religious beliefs and to vote for candidates who do not support the most important of those beliefs. Democrats should keep the door to our tent open to all Christians and let them know they are welcome, but also let them know as Democrats we do have some core beliefs and we will keep them because that is what makes us Democrats.

[w4rma]

30. The issues I listed should be deal breakers for voting Republican.

And they are for many many many people.

They need to quit trying to force people to worship. The ones who are willing to stop forcing non-believers to act as they do will be able to vote Democratic easily. The ones who aren't can try to ignore those issues in favor of more important issues.

[elocs]

31. The point is, it is not a matter of writing off the Christian Right or not

because they are too far right to cross over the line to vote for a Democrat and their religious beliefs will not allow them to compromise themselves to do that. Believe it or not, there are independents who will swing back and forth between voting for a Democrat or a Republican. If the political spectrum is one where at the middle the beliefs of liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats come together, I would guess that here at DU most are probably to the left of center of the Democratic Party. I know I am. A conservative Democrat might find it easier to vote for a given Republican than any of the Evangelical right would find it to vote for a Democrat who is pro-choice. There are millions of Christians who vote for Democrats, but they were predisposed to do so.

What the Evangelical right does not understand is that it was not the intent of Jesus to set up a theocracy. He clearly said that his kingdom was not of this world, otherwise his followers would fight for it. Christians are instructed to obey those who have the rule over them and to render unto Caesar (the government) what is Caesar's. What makes Evangelicals "evangelical" is that they believe that they are instructed by the Bible to bring people to Christianity. Unfortunately they have come to believe that they should have the power to legislate Christianity and force their beliefs onto people rather than making converts. They want to use the tyranny of the majority to do it by arguing that most Americans are Christians. But if people in general are referred as "sheeple", then Christians are the ultimate example of that because they do consider themselves to be sheep and like sheep they can be easily manipulated by a crafty shepherd.

[w4rma]

32. The same tactics used with moderate and liberal Christians we also should

be using with the far-right Christians. Same tactics. No change in talking points. Just state it the way the world is and should be. Build it and they will come.

We don't need all the far-right wingers, we only need to convince enough of them that:
poverty should be fought against not embraced
loving your neighbor is better than murdering your neighbor
convincing people is better than forcing people
etc.
This is what Jesus taught. This is how Jesus lived his life on Earth.

Get that conversation started in enough churches and stay true to our words and movitves and they will come to us.

It doesn't matter how "far right" they are. Once that lightbulb switches on, even the most "far right" person can switch right over to "far left" in an instant.

[elocs]

33. Let me make this even more simple:

why waste time trying to convert right wing Evangelical Christians? It would be easier to convert gays to straight. Democrats have a core set of beliefs and evangelicals are free to accept them or reject them. Just let them know that the door to the Democratic tent is always open and they are free to enter if they like. Very, very few will choose to do that. Time would be much better spent getting people who do not vote and would vote for a Democrat out to the polls.

[w4rma]

34. Because you don't write off sections of America. Ever.

You keep a dialog open with everyone. Writing folks off is partially how we got into this situation.

And we aren't trying to "convert" them. We are trying to get as many of them as possible to reevaluate their priorities. We are trying to get as many of them as possible to look at the many things that Democrats support and that they should agree with but Republicans fight against.

You tell them why they should be voting Democratic. You NEVER EVER tell them why Democrats should be ignoring them. You NEVER EVER tell them why they should suck it up and allow Democrats to ignore them. They should not be ignored and they should not be sucking it up. They should be voting Democratic and we should be talking with all Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddists, athiests, agnostics, everyone in America.

[elocs]

35. We are going to have to disagree about this.

I have been there, I have been one, I know what I am talking about. If there were unlimited time and money and resources you would never write off anybody, but I am not going to spend any time trying to convince a right wing Evangelical that they abandon their deeply religious beliefs, which are as important to them as your Democratic beliefs, and that they should support the Democratic Party because that is not going to happen unless the person has a Damascus Road experience. They not only disagree with the Democratic Party, they believe it is an arm and tool of the devil. This is not a simple matter like writing off the South. There are millions who would be far more likely to support the Democratic Party and its ideals. Right wing Evangelicals will be part of that 30-40% who will always vote Republican or not vote at all. I give my opinion from my experience and do not feel the need to lecture anybody. But for me, your lecture is over.

[w4rma]

36. Efilroft Sul knows what I am talking about. This is how you do it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2886626

[chat_noir]

29. hehe