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NY Times: Evangelicals Blame Foley, Not Republican Party

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:33 AM
Original message
NY Times: Evangelicals Blame Foley, Not Republican Party
Put your party hats and noisemakers away, friends. The forest still surrounds us, despite a few trees falling...

Evangelicals Blame Foley, Not Republican Party

VIRGINIA BEACH, Oct. 7 — As word of Representative Mark Foley’s sexually explicit e-mail messages to former pages spread last week, Republican strategists worried — and Democrats hoped — that the sordid nature of the scandal would discourage conservative Christians from going to the polls.

But in dozens of interviews here in southeastern Virginia, a conservative Christian stronghold that is a battleground in races for the House and Senate, many said the episode only reinforced their reasons to vote for their two Republican incumbents in neck-and-neck re-election fights, Representative Thelma Drake and Senator George Allen.

“This is Foley’s lifestyle,” said Ron Gwaltney, a home builder, as he waited with his family outside a Christian rock concert last Thursday in Norfolk. “He tried to keep it quiet from his family and his voters. He is responsible for what he did. He is paying a price for what he did. I am not sure how much farther it needs to go.”

The Democratic Party is “the party that is tolerant of, maybe more so than Republicans, that lifestyle,” Mr. Gwaltney said, referring to homosexuality.

Most of the evangelical Christians interviewed said that so far they saw Mr. Foley’s behavior as a matter of personal morality, not institutional dysfunction.

All said the question of broader responsibility had quickly devolved into a storm of partisan charges and countercharges. And all insisted the episode would have little impact on their intentions to vote.

<shnipp>

Charles W. Dunn, dean of the school of government at Regent University, founded here by the religious broadcaster Pat Robertson, said that so many conservative Christians were already in a funk about the party that “the Foley issue just opens up the potential floodgate for losses.” The tawdry accusations, Mr. Dunn said, “give life” to the charges of Republican corruption that had been merely “latent” in the minds of many voters.

But as far as culpability in the Foley case, Mr. Dunn said, House Republicans may benefit from the evangelical conception of sin. Where liberals tend to think of collective responsibility, conservative Christians focus on personal morality. “The conservative Christian audience or base has this acute moral lens through which they look at this, and it is very personal,” Mr. Dunn said. “This is Foley’s personal sin.”
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:37 AM
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1. For Evangelicals To Do Otherwise Would Destroy Their Whole World
They would be admitting error, upon error, upon error, upon hubris. Since they feel as infallible as the Pope, if not more so, their heads would explode.

So it's a test of character time for them. The results will be interesting.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:40 AM
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2. Cognitive dissonance resolved!
It couldn't be their corrupt Republican party, it was just Foley and he's a Democrat! They say so on Fox News!
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Justice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
3. It is enlightening to see this, as it shows the true colors of
these "leaders". The only rule they follow is republicans good, democrats bad - and we spin any story accordingly.

Too long have DUers have struggled with trying to reconcile the claims with the bible - how can this crowd not support helping the poor, the sick, the children. How could they support unjust war?

Then we saw Ralph Reed exposed as someone who took gambling money to support his cause, Sherwood strangling his mistress - and on and on and on.

They are 100% political - the whole spiritual thing is no more legit than Putin saying Russia will move to democracy. This evan. thing is a sham by republican leaders hungry for power, and rank and file people who really do believe in God and want to do the right thing have been duped - some willingly duped, some innocently duped, but duped all the same.

It is disgusting - it is the antichrist some speak of.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. These evangelicals really eat their own don't they...
...this is Social Darwinism at its very best:

<snip>
Social Darwinism

Introduction
Social Darwinism is a quasi-philosophical, quasi-religious, quasi-sociological view that came from the mind of Herbert Spencer, an English philosopher in the 19th century. It did not achieve wide acceptance in England or Europe, but flourished in this country, as is true of many ideologies, religions, and philosophies. A good summary of Social Darwinism is by Johnson:

In these years, when Darwin's Origin of Species, popularized by Herbert Spencer as "the survival of the fittest, " and applied to races as well as species in a vulgarized form, Social Darwinism, the coming Christian triumph was presented as an Anglo-Saxon Protestant one.

Social Darwinism is by no means dead, for vestiges of it can be found in the present.
<.....>

...for our purposes, it is the use to which some people made of biological evolution which concerns us. Some simplified the idea to "survival of the fittest." Others believed that an identical process took place among human beings. They believed that white Protestant Europeans had evolved much further and faster than other "races." And some, especially the followers of Herbert Spencer, took it one step further. Human society is always in a kind of evolutionary process in which the fittest- which happened to be those who can make lots of money--were chosen to dominate. There were armies of unfit, the poor, who simply could not compete. And just as nature weeds out the unfit, an enlightened society ought to weed out its unfit and permit them to die off so as not to weaken the racial stock.

This idea eventually led to a variety of practices and beliefs, e.g., Nordic Racism, used by German anthropologists and later Nazi theoreticians. It also led to eugenics in which, it was believed, the unfit transmit their undesirable characteristics. A breeding program for human beings would see to it that the unfit did not transmit their undesirable characteristics.

Another application of a biological concept to human behavior was the notion that any attempt to provide welfare for the poor was a tragically misguided mistake. Feeding or housing the poor simply permitted them to survive and to transmit their unfitness to their children, who in turn would pass it on to their children. A spurious piece of sociology about two families known as the Jukes and the Kallikaks purported to trace a race of criminals and prostitutes to two persons in the Revolutionary War. This study was used for many years to demonstrate that "inferiority" was inherited.

Many in our culture did not bother to read Spencer, Darwin nor did they realize the oversimplification of eugenics. But that is not the point. The point is that a piece of ideology got into American life and assumed considerable importance. What is also significant is that some, e.g., wealthy industrialists, believed that what they were doing was supported by science. Yes, they said, the caucasian, European-derived male industrialist was at the apex of evolution. And yes, they said, it is undesirable to provide, as public policy, governmental support for any plan that would perpetuate racial weakness.
<more>

http://www.ioa.com/~shermis/socjus/socdar.html
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
5. These people are beyond saving. May their own god help them.
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
6. We Should Have A Policy Of Benign Neglect Toward Them
This group and I am loathe to call them Christians or fundamentalists are in the pockets of the Republican party. They are a small part of the electorate. It is best to ignore them.
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Marr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. That's because evangelicals don't really *care* about this sort of thing.
Edited on Wed Oct-11-06 11:38 AM by Marr
What they want is oppressive theocracy. They want to be able to control the people they hate (non-evangelicals).

They care about theocracy. That's *it*. That quote from Tucker Carlson yesterday, about how Republican leaders privatelynhate evangelicals- it was symptomatic of a great hubris in the Republican Party. The evangelicals don't much care about your Republican leadership, either, Tucker! They're using you just like you're using them- they're not your fucking fans, they want theocracy.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-11-06 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
8. Xtian hypocrites dodge the larger picture:a GOP coverup. (n/t)
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