Why did I ever leave the Libertarian Party?

[benburch]

Shocked?

Yes, that's right. I was a Libertarian for most of my adult life.

I first voted for Roger McBride in '76, and then, generally, for Libertarian candidates in all elections that were not so close that the alternative was a Republican.

No way was I going to allow any Republican to slide into office because I had cast a spoiler vote for a Libertarian; Nixon saw to that, and Reagan cemented the deal - One was a crook, and the other was a liar who promised a balanced budget but who instead ran up a debt this country has still not paid.

I was a Libertarian for many reasons, but it really started in High School when I read Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, We The Living, and The Fountainhead. They convinced me that all governments eventually become weapons used against the people they ought to serve, and that, though some government was likely necessary, the least government was usually the best government. The defects in Ayn Rand's ideal Republic were not then obvious to me, thought they became so as I matured. But I came out of this with some core beliefs;

• When you allow government to have power, it finds a way to abuse that power.
  
• Government ought not regulate private moral choices (victimless crimes).
  
• Any government ought to be completely transparent.
  
• Taxing the poor is a tool governments use to keep people poor.
  

I could not support the Democratic Party because of its stance on the drug laws, sexwork, and its continual desires to expand the power of government, but I always voted Democratic where it would make the difference in whether a race was won or lost. I saw this a "Party Building", and I don't regret any of that. I wish the Greens had been ethical enough to build their Party in this same fashion, and perhaps we would not have ever had to worry about King George.

What made me decide to become a Democrat?

Two things;

First, the hideous perversion of the Constitutional power to impeach a President that was engaged in by the Republican Party over Bill Clinton's little affair.

Second, the specter of having a person I saw to be an unreconstructed Nazi elected to the Presidency. (That being King George, of course.)

I still hold to my views that governmental power is a dangerous tool and that issues of personal freedom have to be addressed in our civilization, but I am trying to push these issues from WITHIN the Democratic Party. I adhere to the mission of the Democratic Freedom Caucus (DFC) http://www.progress.org/dfc . If you believe as I do, please look them up.

But you know, the events surrounding the nomination of Alito have caused me to wonder why I ever bothered to change parties? It does no good to support an opposition that has no spine and which stands for NOTHING. I might as well have voted for a Libertarian! But I plan to stay in the Democratic Party and be a damned thorn in their side pushing for personal freedoms, limits and checks on governmental powers, taxation that does not oppress the poor, and a foreign policy that is based upon human rights and prevention of war.

[noahmijo]

1. Hey I'll admit I was a Libertarian too

it was when I was between the ages of 17-19, then the real world came crashing down and I realized the utopia Libertarians talk about is unrealistic given the shit society consists of.

You won't get an argument out of me that states Democrats are the saviors either though even though I am registered as one-and that is just so I can vote in the primaries.

Truth is if they had any chance whatsoever I'd register and vote Green, but baby steps towards creating a better nation is more imporant to me than bullshit "vote with a conscience" talk I hear from those who have nothing to lose-i.e. unlike some I can't afford to have a conscience and feel stuck voting for the lesser of two evils.

Although I proudly campaigned and voted for John Kerry and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I spent alot of time talking to Libertarians who were out pushing the vote for the Libertarian candidate.

For the most part they were ultimately not going to be swayed by either of the two big parties, but I will say a few of them stated at the time that they were going to vote for Kerry just because they saw him as less of a big government nightmare than what Bushco created.

[pitohui]

4. i was one too but not too long

i quickly figured out that a small gov't and a libertarian philosophy is just another way of making sure the big bully will always come out ahead in life's contest because there is no powerful referee to keep things fair, since i was not born a big bully or even related to anyone in the big bully class and i'm not quite pretty enough to marry one, it would be cutting my throat to support libertarian "ideals," hell, it only works for you if you're born rich and every gov't system works if you had a wise choice of parents so what's special abt being a libertarian?

as long as we have big business, we need a strong gov't that is independent of big business, democrats are not as independent as we might like, but they're a hell of a lot better than the alternative

another reality is that, despite petty harassment, in this country you can pretty much get the sex, drugs, etc. you want if you are discreet abt it but if gov't is such that you are killed by bad pharmaceuticl drugs, lack of access to health care, bad environmental laws, bad work conditions, etc. then you won't be around to enjoy your vices -- so libertarians claiming they are supportive of sexwork etc. is fairly meaningless to me, besides, all they ever do in support of these things is talk anyway

[Strawman]

2. Sounds nice in theory

But in practice I think it's a path to the Gilded Age. Government is a necessary evil that I'll take my chances with. Markets have "externalities." And libertarianism ends in social darwinism which is just another brand of tyranny. I'll give up a little absolute liberty to keep people from slaving and starving and try to check the abuses of power that might come with government. That being said it's useful, to be skeptical and watchful of government and put some stock in libertarian critiques, up to a point.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

3. Ben, I think you're on the right track

For good or ill, we in this country have inherited a two-party system.

The Republican Party is shattered beyond repair.

There yet remains hope for a rejuvenated Democratic Party in our lifetimes. That hope is often dimmed by the Ben Nelsons and Joe Liebermans, but I don't think we can punt on their account. The far better tactic is to run them out.

I saw Joe on CNN this a.m., criticizing those who "failed to inform the President" about Katrina. What a load of sycophantic hogwash! Poor Hoe Lieberman still hasn't figured out that Dear Leader *was* informed about the impending horrors of Katrina, and simply didn't give a rat's ass. It got in the way of his vacation.

Fight, Ben. It's all we can do, especially when others won't.

[rudy23]

5. I quit Libertarianism when I worked for a large corporation

They have way less interest in doing "good" than the government.

Also, Hurricane Katrina was a clear cut example of why libertarianism doesn't work. There are many problems the free market can't solve. Their are times when the government has to assert itself as an instrument of good. Otherwise, we turn the USA into one giant computer that can't do anything it's not programmed to do. Computers can be frustrating that way.

[Village Idiot]

6. Why did I ever leave the Marijuana Party?

No - seriously - I can't remember...

[benburch]

8. Used to be a political movement called the Illinois Marijuana Initiative.

Which, as somebody with some Marijuana use in his distant past, stuck me as an oxymoron.

[Roho]

15. lol

I got a letter once from the pot party here saying I had signed up for their news letter.

I was really worried that I might have but had forgotten until a friend of mine got the same letter and she sure didn't sign up.

[Odin2005]

7. Libertarians are nuts.

A libertarian on another forum told me that Social Security and social programs are illegal because they arn't in the Constitution. :crazy:

[benburch]

9. Some are.

But they don't hold with the Swiss Cheese that Bush has made of the Constitution. In this, they are our natural allies.

[Festivito]

10. Can't deny reality forever. That would be why.

Hey did Ayn Rand forget to mention that when a government is small enough to drown in a bathtub that
it gets taken over?
From within? Even
from without? Even
by nature?

Thanks to unthinking persons, SUCH AS LIBERTARIANS, the power has shifted back and forth until the corporations were able, somewhat silently, take over. Take our newspapers, mess our campaign funding, now count our vote.

What were the corporations supposed to do? Wait for Europe or China to march into YOUR LITTLE BATHTUB IDEA.

Dot1. Sure, government abuses power. Anyone with your money or with my money will abuse power. The idea is to work a system that lets us live as best we can, achieve a more perfect union. Please do not whine that it will never be perfect therefore we must drown it. Drown it with votes not insolence.

Dot2. Private choices are great, who do you think is pushing AGAINST private choices? Did you guess the Republicans? YES! TRY THINKING. Dems have been accused of being light on crime like drugs. Dems have been accused of being amoral for allowing a sex trade rather than pushing it further underground. Dems have been accused of being killers for not wanting abortions criminalized into killing young women. AND THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T WANT TO BE DEM?
Oh, and who expanded government? Republicans! Who decreased the size? Gore as his first VP assignment. WHERE IS YOUR HEAD?

Dot3. Who's making government more secret? Republicans!

Dot4. Who's taxing the poor more than the rich? Republicans!

Bathtub.
Who do you want to take democracy away from us? The biggest church with enough infrastructure? The biggest corporations? Europe? China? WHO? I'll tell you want to take us over...

Your imagination.

[mmonk]

11. I don't know.

Clearly, the democratic party is not where a difference can be made.

[benburch]

12. Our system makes two-party government inescapable.

So the Democratic Party is the only choice available until another Party simply replaces it.

[w8liftinglady]

13. I was a Libertarian for 20 years...

I couldn't stomach the "fend for yourself" mentality that the Randian Objectivists needed to preach(Greenspan is one of them).I still agree in principle with a lot of their platform.

[TheFarseer]

14. The main problem with Libertarians

is that Corporations and the rich replace the government and become even worse than the government becasue we can't even check them with elections.

If you want to work in a factory for 18 cents a day then go ahead and be a full-blown balls-to-the-wall Libertarian.

[jonnyblitz]

19. exactly, corportate power is the elephant in the lving room

the libertarians don't want to talk about it seems.

[toddaa]

16. I'm still a Libertarian... And a Socialist

Capitalism is slavery.

[RandomKoolzip]

17. I left the Greens for the Dems.

So far, the Dems have been only half as ineffectual as I thought they'd be when I was at my Greenest. If that's not an occasion for throwing confetti in the air, I dunno what is.

[benburch]

18. Talk about damning with faint praise!

I hear you loud and clear.