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McCain Belief In Intelligent Design Evolving ... Away From Religious Right

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JABBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:28 AM
Original message
McCain Belief In Intelligent Design Evolving ... Away From Religious Right
Arizona Republican John McCain's position on "intelligent design" appears to be -- no pun intended -- evolving.

McCain has spoken in favor of teaching intelligent design, or ID, in public schools for several months, taking the popular conservative opinion -- shared by the Bush Administration -- that public school students should be availed of "all points of view."

Modern use of the term "intelligent design" dates back less than two decades, but it has nonetheless grown popular among the religious right. It is a belief that a higher power, rather than evolution, is responsible for the world as we know it today. Scientists and those who believe in separation of church and state believe that if ID is to be taught, it should be left for religious school rather that public school. JABBS has proposed that ID be taught in public schools only if it can be offered side-by-side with Biblical archaeology, which has found that many of the stories of the Bible are just that ... stories.

When McCain spoke about ID with NPR's Tom Ashbrook last month, even he struggled to explain why it was that ID should be taught in science class.

ASHBROOK: And you support the teaching of intelligent design in American schools? Is this an election-ready position?

McCAIN: No, I support the airing of all viewpoints in America, including Marxism, including socialism, including libertarianism, including -- I think Americans should be exposed to all ideas and viewpoints. I don't think they should be excluded. I don't think they should be excluded.

ASHBROOK: How do you put intelligent design in there, make a kind of equation between that and evolution science, and not undercut science itself, John McCain?

McCAIN: Because I believe, my belief, it was a time before time when the hand of God played a key role in the creation of this world. And I'm entitled to that belief. You may not hold it, but that's my belief, that God did create this incredible universe in which we reside, and every day I see manifestations, as Darwin did, of his work. But that does not mean….

ASHBROOK: Why not teach that in a religion class, then? Why in the science part of the textbook?

McCAIN: Why teach Marxism, and why teach socialism, and why teach other theories?

ASHBROOK: They may be welcome, but they're in political science, you wouldn't teach Marxism….

McCAIN: No they're not in political science, they're taught on their own.

***

McCain struggled -- as other ID believers before him -- to come up with a reasonable explanation of how a "belief" fits into a science class. Are Marxism and socialism taught "on their own"? Maybe at the university level. But in lower grades -- the same grades over which the ID debate brews -- those theories are taught in political science or history classes, if at all.

Ashbrook's lead question -- "Is this an election-ready position?" -- along with McCain's difficulty answering questions about ID, may have struck a nerve with McCain's political handlers.

Last week, in an interview with MTV News, McCain's view on ID seemed to evolve into something more appealing to the political middle.

"Every young American should be exposed to every point of view. I'm not saying (intelligent design) should be taught in science classes. But I'm saying young people should be exposed to it. I also believe that God had a hand in creation. I certainly don't believe the Earth was created in seven days. But when I stand on the rim of the Grand Canyon and look at that grandeur, I detect the hand of God there in the time before time. I see no reason why students should not be exposed to all theories, recognizing that Darwin's theory's certainly one that is generally accepted in most of the scientific community. I think it's not inappropriate to say there are also people who believe this. Let the student decide."

So, as Ashbrook questioned, now McCain believes that ID should be taught outside science class, and seemingly in a comparative religion class. Hmmm.

McCain proclaims himself to be a conservative -- and liberals who fell in love with him during the 2000 campaign should not think of him otherwise. But that hasn't stopped many conservatives -- especially on talk radio and television -- from being angry with McCain over positions they feel are designed to appeal to the political middle or left -- from appearances on Comedy Central's The Daily Show With Jon Stewart to his recent successful push for legislation banning cruel or inhumane treatment of U.S. detainees worldwide.

Maybe the gap exists because McCain doesn't buy into the conservative noise machine spin cycle. Sure, he allowed himself to be used by President Bush on the campaign trail last year -- remember Bush's kiss on his forehead? -- because he knows any road to the White House goes through the conservative-driven Republican primaries.

The appeal McCain has among the middle is that, even while campaigning for Bush last year, he stood up for John Kerry when the Swift Boat Veterans launched their fact-challenged smear campaign. McCain isn't afraid to speak kindly of Kerry or other Democrats, like Ted Kennedy or former president John Kennedy. Unlike the boobs in the conservative noise machine, he understands that a person doesn't become smart just because he calls his opponent stupid.

So McCain flip-flopped on ID. The religious right will probably be furious, and maybe radio clowns like Mark Levin will have something else to shout about. But McCain knows that the left and most of the middle doesn't accept ID in public schools as an "election-ready position."

***

This item first appeared at Journalists Against Bush's B.S.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh geeez... When he looks at the Grand Canyon...
yes it is beautiful... but it's called erosion.. not the hand of god.

What friggin dimwits.. arrrrrgh.
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FlemingsGhost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. McCain's a RW snake. I still don't understand his appeal.
The apparent willingness to give him (and Colin Powell) the benefit of the doubt, confound me.
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JABBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. not giving him anything
... but at the same time, his evolving position should be noted and put into context. I'm not saying I support him or his view on ID.
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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
4. I love how the "Religious Right" is mad at him over his torture stance
I am sure Jesus would be too, huh?
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Yep, after all
Who Would Jesus Torture is a tenet that every fundamentalist Christian is well aware of.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. But John, when I stood at the rim of the Grand Canyon in August...
...and I looked at that grandeur, I might have uttered the words "OH MY GOD!" but then I went on to think about the millions of years of flowing, raging rivers that ripped through the region. Rivers. Flowing water. Lots of it. In a time when things were a lot, LOT different than they are now. If you cannot look at the obvious erosion from flowing water involved here without thinking a big floating ghost musta dun it, well then...we ain't got much left here to discuss, Johnny. You won't be gettin' my vote no way, no how.

BTW, I've tried that "But a higher power musta done it!" approach on my wife before, to weasel out of things I couldn't explain. It doesn't work, ever, does it Johnny?
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. It was reported last October
at crooksandliars.com that he met with Jerry Falwell. He wants to be president and nothing more and is going the George Bush route.
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JABBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I don't think that's correct
The torture legislation and the change in ID talk certainly aren't in keeping with Bush. And McCain has been out in front on other GOP-sensitive issues, especially with the Iraq War, the pork-laden highway and energy bills, etc.
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nofurylike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. so they'll be meeting Gaia in the classrooms soon, McCain? or ecology,
for that matter?

the Grand Canyon, among Mother Nature's finest spectacles! you know, Nature, which repugs believe exists for their slash-and-burn harvesting?


peace!
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progdonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. "Let the student decide." Fuck him.
Students are not in school to decide what they want to believe. The teacher is there to ground the student in the subject at hand, whether it is science, English, math, etc. It is wholly idiotic to allow a student to "decide" they want to believe ID Creationism over Evolution, just as it would be to allow him to "decide" that 2+2=6.

Does this jackass believe that teachers should have to teach the "Stork Theory" or refer to fucking Neverland as if it were a real place?

Fucking idiots. :banghead:
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JABBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. decide in ...
science class, or in a comparative religion class. or doesn't it matter?
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:30 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. The stork theory!
Edited on Thu Dec-29-05 07:30 AM by depakid
:rofl:

I'm going to use that one next time I have to deal with some fool or another.

Thanks!
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The Backlash Cometh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. McCAIN: No they're not in political science, they're taught on their own"
Is he serious? This is one of the stupidest statements in the interview. There's a high school course called Marxism 101? How many colleges teach Marxism as a stand alone? I encountered some exposure to it in college, but it was brought up only for comparison purposes. If an American manages to get through college without learning something about communism, then their education would be insular, indeed. As for creationism, who in America doesn't already know that Christians believe God created the earth and sky?
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
13. He hasn't a clue
what the hell he's talking about. I'm curious if he even knows what he believes. He's clearly using a cop out answer of 'teach all different theories'.

He's making a fool of himself in that interview.

Sorry Johnny, but 'Intelligent Design' isn't a theory. It's nonsense. It's a Trojan Horse with the intention of teaching creationism in schools.

If you want the kids to learn the 'God fill in the gaps' theory, then take him to church where they can feed him with all sorts of nutty stories (hey after all, you yourself don't believe in the 'earth created in 7 days' myth).


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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
15. WTF is "the time before time"?
Moron.
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JABBS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. "The Land Of The Lost!!!"
That was when Adam removed the Brontosaurus bone and created Adam & Eve Apple Juice.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-29-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. This is why I'm glad I joined DU
Prior, I had always thought McCain was one of the "good" gophers. Think I would have gotten this info from the "liberal" media? Probably not.
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